Why a trip to your 7-11 could result in your violent and tortuous death from rabies

[Retiredandhappyhere]

So, some owners think that it is OK for their dog to bite you as long as it has been vaccinated?

[Krataiboy]

If this report is only half true, its implications are very concerning, not just for the indigenous population of Bangkok but the entire country.  The impact on tourism if these facts are correct and are reported in the mass media across the rest of the world, could be absolutely devastating - and with good cause.

 

I hail from the UK, an island nation which takes quite extraordinary measures to prevent rabies from reaching its population. I recall the scare stories when the Channel Tunnel was planned, suggesting that a stray fox from France, where the disease was known to exist, might come scuttling under the English Channel to infect us all.

 

I can imagine the reaction of would-be British tourists to the Land of Smiles- and those across the rest of the planet - once the news of Thailand's hidden rabies epidemic is broadcast on television and in the newspapers, as it surely will be.

 

I assume this is one reason why, assuming the evidence presented in the doctor's report is true, the Thai authorities have been so reluctant to make the findings public - an outrageous neglect of their primary duty to ensure the safety and security of the Kingdom's 70 million citizens.

 

Burying official heads in the sand is simply going to make the problem worse. Recently we have all been bombarded with scare stories about Zika and the fact that a couple of cases have emerged here. It is ludicrous to hush up the truth about a potential plague when it could have even more devastating effects on public health and the nation's economic wellbeing.

 

There must be no more official sitting on hands and staying schtum.

 

The first thing which must be done is for the Government to confirm or deny the findings of this report and the almost unbelievably high figures for dogs infected and provide a much more detailed breakdown of the methodology behind the report to establish its reliability. Clearly, if the data is correct, a major initiative needs to be launched (using the notorious Article 44 provision if necessary) to raise public awareness of the problem. 

 

This should be followed by (a) a programme of free rabies vaccination for the entire population, starting with children, and (b) a nation-wide cull or enforced vaccination of ALL dogs and cats, irrespective of whether they have an owner (how does one know, since,  as far as I know, dog licences do not exist here) 

 

Why, with so many rabid dogs apparently running amok, are we not hearing anything about the extent of human casualties resulting from this hidden epidemic?  Government and private hospitals and clinics must have the information. The public has a right know the extent of the problem and how it is being addressed - if at all.

 

I imagine Thailand's near neighbours such as Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam who also like dogs for purposes other than as pets would be interested to know how risky their next consignment of smuggled canines from the Land of Smiles might be. Not exactly the sort of ASEAN trade which should be encouraged from now on.

 

Last but definitely not least, is there any concrete evidence to support the truly alarming suggestion that Thailand nurtures a strain of rabies that can be lethal within 24 hours? If the answer is in the affirmative, then any further delay in tackling this extraordinary  problem would be nothing less than criminal.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Krataiboy

[jhonnie]

introduce micro chipping with mandatory vaccinations, a 0ne year amnesty and then start policing it, if the owner cant be found or wont pay the fine and impound fees , bed time 

[Cats4ever]

17 hours ago, clockman said:

Very sensible report, Not often seen. Dogs, cats all strays can be dangerous. They are everywhere in Thailand. And Rabies is endemic in Thailand.

 

I bet Johnny Depp thinks twice before smuggling his dogs into Thai.

[Keesters]

17 hours ago, how241 said:

Round all them up, with no collars,  and neuter them.

 

In Pattaya lots of dogs running around in the street with collars. A collar is there to 'prevent' the dog catcher from touching it as they consider it owned. If it is owned it should not be on the street anyway. All dogs on the loose should be captured and made available for return to owner upon a large fee and statutory desexing. Perhaps compulsory microchipping would help trace errant dog owners too. No chip and you don't get the dog back. Plenty of solutions to remove all these dogs from the streets if only the government would see it as a problem which it most definitely is. So many reports these days of injuries and deaths attributed to stray dogs I wonder when the government and the people will wake up and do something about it. Good to see one Thai doctor on the side of sense.

 

[spidermike007]

Soi dogs are an absolute scourge, and a great, seething boil on the face of this nation. The false belief, that somehow one earns Buddhavistic merit, for feeding a soi dog could not be further from the truth. These dogs must be culled. Their populations must be brought down, and the public has to be educated about the terrible aspects of that population of dogs. The government has alot of work to do in this area. Soi dogs are an abomination. They serve no useful purpose, are a great hazard, and are taken care of by nobody, other than the occasional feeding. They lead miserable lives of desperation. 

[Keesters]

In another thread on a similar subject I asked what benefit stray dogs have to the population. I received no answers.

 

Here it is said for the purpose of gaining merit soi dogs are tolerated and fed. As I and any responsible dog owner would have to travel many kilometers to an approved dog park perhaps the merit makers should be made to travel many kilometers to gain their merit by feeding a well housed and cared for dog. Or they could just come round to my house and drop of a can of 'Chum'.

 

 

 

[Mangostin]

1 hour ago, Jonathan Swift said:

An animal with rabies has obvious symptoms. They would be unmistakeable, so I find that 50% figure dubious. Probably exaggerated for impact. And are we supposed to believe that feeding the dogs gives them rabies? They get it from being bitten by other infected animals. Now 7-11 is going to lose a lot of business from this negative publicity based on exaggeration. 

Just follow the money......convincing the public that they are into a terrible lethal danger, will surely prompt them to open up their wallets so the necessary action can be taken, we don't really want some of the local businessmen involved into this rap, to loose the earnings they have planned to pocket from it, do we???

[kannot]

18 hours ago, Lupatria said:

Let's wait for the TAT let's play it down reply to this news. Probably something like this:

 

False alarm! No reports of tourists harmed by rabbits so far in the country.

!!

[kannot]

10 hours ago, peterb17 said:

 

Why is that so many posts refer to Western countries ? Where billions are spent on policing, the rule of law and this case animal welfare- in the UK there are even free  vets for the underprivileged who cannot look after their Pitt Bull .

 

its not relevant .

 

I go out of my development- I know all the Soi dogs by sight.

 

My view is that these dogs do not ask to be born- many are friendly beautiful animals - over thousands of years they have been bred to live amongst humans - maybe it's payback time for that genetic manipulation . 

 

So support the charities who take care of these animals .

 

Rule of thumb - those who really care about the welfare of animals - also care about their  fellow humans .  

id probably  put down more humans than dogs

[Mangostin]

I have adopted a couple of these semi-strays, the first thing i did was to neuter them so they could continue their lives without increasing the number of them around.

That's one the first things people should do, neutering them so their number will not get out of control...................no not the dogs, some TV members, that's it, the ones whom usually just kind of use a consistent part of their life only to bitching up, without contributing the least bit into their own or other people's lives

[Richard Hall]

Just to put some clearance to that figure in the article that 50% of the dogs tested were infected:

 

Rabies testing is a test generally done on animals (predominantly wild animals) when a person has been bitten.

Since the 1960s, the standard test for rabies has been Direct fluorescent antibody test (dFA test). Because rabies is present in nervous tissue (and not blood like many other viruses), it is best to test for rabies in brain tissue. This test can only be done post-mortem.

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies_testing

 

Hence, obviously the test has not been carried out by randomly taking dogs off the street and tested them for the virus but solely on dogs that had already shown aggressive behavior and appeared to be infected. 

 

Under these circumstances 50% appear even to be on the low and not high end.

 

Put some things into relation and quite often it turns out that the result is absolutely different than it originally appeared. Distorted information do not benefit anyone. 

 

[lonewolf99]

Totally misplaced charity - Feeding Soi dogs.

 

I am sick and tired of being attacked when out walking and on my bicycle. Also recently 3 times in one day on my motor bike.

 

The back Soi's and beach area in Jomtien is swarming with strays. In the space of less than 1 km I counted 45 dogs going from the new 2nd road up to Sukh.

 

So far I have just managed to avoid being bitten.  The sad joke of this is that droves of idiots think they are the only ones feeding the dogs...NO you are not ! I have seen dogs fed less than 5 minutes after some dope has just left an area with dog feed.

Spaying does not fix the problem. Rabies is horrific. Possibly the worst way a human could die.

 

Eradication of the dogs is the only answer and education for the locals. (or maybe the other way round)

And this coming from an animal lover.....you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.

[cardinalblue]

The article does not state what test if any is being carried out. To properly test for rabies as Richard Hall stated above, the dog must be killed and brain matter tested. Does the author have the right to collect soi dogs (some might have owners) and kill them only to find out that (according to him) half do not have the virus...

 

I seriously doubt proper, ethical and expensive collection methods are being performed by this vet. A follow-up article should be done to explain what test methods were used and how the vets arrived at their numbers. How do they handle these bio-infectious bodies and what treatment and disposal methods being employed?

 

This article should never have been published until the numbers and results can be validated by respected  authorities or knowledgeable organizations....

 

I wonder is this study was nothing more than just an eye-ball test (aggressive vs non-aggressive) and nothing more?

 

 

[chrisinth]

32 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

The article does not state what test if any is being carried out. To properly test for rabies as Richard Hall stated above, the dog must be killed and brain matter tested. Does the author have the right to collect soi dogs (some might have owners) and kill them only to find out that (according to him) half do not have the virus...

 

I seriously doubt proper, ethical and expensive collection methods are being performed by this vet. A follow-up article should be done to explain what test methods were used and how the vets arrived at their numbers. How do they handle these bio-infectious bodies and what treatment and disposal methods being employed?

 

This article should never have been published until the numbers and results can be validated by respected  authorities or knowledgeable organizations....

 

I wonder is this study was nothing more than just an eye-ball test (aggressive vs non-aggressive) and nothing more?

 

 

 

I think there are different test methods for the detection of rabies. As Richard Hall stated in an earlier post, dFA testing is the normal method used (not sure about Thailand though).

 

Otherwise beheading 579 dogs in the last 9 months to prove that 276 of them had rabies would be not only messy but i would think be against the latest drive by the country against animal cruelty. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by chrisinth
Addition of text line

[Richard Hall]

18 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

 

I think there are different test methods for the detection of rabies.

 

 

Obviously not. I was badly bitten by an unknown cat on our premises when I tried to rescue it from some of our dogs. The cat died shortly after but rather due to the injuries inflicted by the dogs than rabies.

 

I raised the issue with the befriended vet and asked him whether the corpse could be tested for the virus. He told me the only accurate method to cut off the head and get the brain examined. Even in this case the testing is quite time consuming and not a matter of a few hours or a day.

 

Eventually, I got my post exposure immunization to be on the safe side.

 

As previously said, it is more than likely, that the tests where carried out on dogs that had already passed away or where killed due to aggressive behavior because in the meantime it is against the law in Thailand to do harm or kill an animal for no reason.

 

Therefore my conclusion that the test results must be distorted in a way to sensationalize the matter and/or spread more awareness by causing fear. Neither one, however, does contribute to a solution of the problem but rather victimize street animals even more.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Richard Hall
replacement of an incorrect word

[cardinalblue]

The article should have cited the journal in which this study was published...

 

again, my guess is this was not a properly conducted study at all but some sensationalized story to create fear and totally mislead the public...

 

The Thai public health dept should be all over this story on many fronts and story should be retracted or clarified by an authorized representative...

 

i beieve there is only one accepted lab test in the world  that confirms rabies...behavioral observation is not a test....

 

in America there are only a handful of certified labs allowed to carry out this test which leads one to ask what Thailand actually has here to validate the confirmation of rabies and who oversees this body of work?

 

irresponsible journalism by the author and the media...

[ChrisY1]

Why so many "dog lovers" here on this post?

Get rid of the Soi dogs by whatever means......they're vermin!

They carry more disease than most other animals in Thailand.....personally, I despise them...I carry a bamboo pole and hit any that threaten me.......!

I won't stop in my vendetta to rid my Soi of these pests........making merit by feeding these vermin has sweet FA to do with buddhism!

[losworld]

What so many animal lovers fail to realize is that this overwhelming dog population is responsible for killing off native populations in Thailand including endangered species.  Do you think these dogs don't hunt and kill prey in the forest?  Of course they do.

[Mook23]

21 hours ago, AlphMichaels said:

Many valid points in this and past threads.  End of the day it is 100% the government's responsibility to take decisive action, lay down laws and stiff penalties for non-compliance (leash laws, euthanizing programs, general animal control). We all know that's not going to happen.  I feel for the people who get bit, especially if they're forced to go through a series of Rabies shots.  I feel for the dogs who wander to find a meal and more often go hungry (I'm a big dog lover), and the environment in which both are forced to co-exist because the powers that be choose to do nothing about it.  

Euh. Where i live the local authority PAYS a woman to feed stray dogs... she does a fixed tour on bicycle every day. 

[Bob9]

I love dogs.  The practice of feeding and looking after soi dogs is ingrained in Thai culture. They are in nearly every temple we have ever visited, and they are just about everywhere we go outdoors. But the vast majority of them are very passive, and 90% of the rest will leave you alone if you leave them alone.

 

But there is a small minority that will bite, and there is a small minority with rabies.  And therein lies the issue - THE ISSUE.  A small number of dogs bite, and because of that in the civilised world (21st century), all societies protect its people by dealing with all stray dogs. They dont do that for cats, poissums etc etc - they only do that for dogs because they can (and some do) kill people.  Add to that the potential for any one of them to have rabies, and there is absolutely no excuse in a civilised 21st century society (Malaysia, Singapore, Bali) for this matter not to be addressed.

 

But this is Thailand. A society that is caught between the 21st and 15th centuries. It may take a while, but eventually Thais in the big Cities will realise that not addressing the stray dog problem is something that was fine in a village based society, but it aint in a modern city based society. I predict it will be dealt with in a City when a hi-so (or above) child is badly mutilated by a stray dog (or killed). Then the stray dog solution (catch, detain, destroy) it will spread City by City - while some regional towns/villages will leave things as they are for a long long time.

 

Meanwhile - perhaps some Farangs should refrain from criticising Thais for following a custom that has existed since before London or New York were villlages.  And be smart and try to avoid them - and know where nearest hospital/clinic is for a shot if bitten - you have far more chance of being killed on the roads.  Calm down

 

  

[LUSHGOAT]

lead injection is the best and export to China. I like dogs but not these mangy critters roaming the streets.

[Wilsonandson]

9 hours ago, chrisinth said:

 

Did you note the bit about after training?

 

5555

If this mutt had rabies it would be lethal. Rip your legs off it would. To answer your question. No I didn't note the cost of training.

[ericthai]

21 hours ago, thaigirlwatcher said:

Solution is obvious. Hire effective animal control officers. Haven't seen stray dogs in America in 50 years. All dogs of owners must be on a leash and any poop must be picked up immediately by the owner or he/she is fined. There...is that so hard???

Cant even get the police  do their job in Thailand. The garbage men do a half ass job as everyone else. Thailand starts an animal control department you will have guys paid to sleep in a hammock all day.

[cardinalblue]

Let me get this straight - a hi so child gets attack by a soi dog and then all of a sudden a traditional and status quo society going to abruptly implement behavioral intervention to eradicate soi dogs?

 

do you mean like the two chula grad students killed by a reckless driver will bring about driving behavioral changes?

 

a couple of cases of hi so deaths will not and has not moved a traditional society rooted to past ways and customs to any meaningful change...

 

one must understand the significance of 'mai bpen rai' in this society....

 

there will not be any effective leash or pooper scooper laws or animal control officers in your life-time in Thailand...stop trying to apply a western cause-effect rationale to a mai bpen rai society...

Edited September 11, 2016 by cardinalblue

[Richard Hall]

20 hours ago, ChrisY1 said:

Why so many "dog lovers" here on this post?

Get rid of the Soi dogs by whatever means......they're vermin!

They carry more disease than most other animals in Thailand.....personally, I despise them...I carry a bamboo pole and hit any that threaten me.......!

I won't stop in my vendetta to rid my Soi of these pests........making merit by feeding these vermin has sweet FA to do with buddhism!

 

Fair enough if there was something like reincarnation that you get reborn as a soi dog. Anyway, karma will certainly get you sooner or later when you hit any dog with a bamboo pole that you feel threatened by. Action causes reaction and some soi dogs may only be aggressive because there were mistreated in the past and not because there were infected by the rabies virus. 

 

Also one should bear in mind that this "vermin" was born here in Thailand without a choice while all those two legged foreign rattlers have even more than one. They may shop at any perfect soi dog free 7/11 in any other country of this planet. As easy it is.

[BaiLao]

Time to call Cesar Milan!

[Mangostin]

13 minutes ago, BaiLao said:

 

Why a dog, any dogs, should be trained in a way to accommodate a behavioral problem that it's not their own?

People whom have problems with dogs, are the same ones which very likely will have many more problems with anything else, dogs do not simply troubleshoots things as security's issues or lacks of affections, but will also points out at the members of our society which are dysfunctional, but it's up to the personal's intellect of each individual to give a correct interpretation to what they are trying to tell you....   

[peterb17]

id probably  put down more humans than dogs

Thanks for making me laugh- think you are probably totally correct.

As a scientist I tend to look at things through slightly different eyes.

The dogs around us are the result of basically genetic engineering - as the dominant species on the planet we have some responsibility for the welfare of this species - in all its forms.

So as I said before - they don't ask to be born ( shot down in flames by one member who said he / she / in - between did not ask to be born either - how sad is that? )

So support the charities who are trying to take care of them and neuter .

I'm going to be controversial ( what's new ?) these days this forum is populated by our American friends- they seem to conform to the shoot/ kill / destroy brigade and hate anything that slightly impinges on their wonderful view of life.

It's definitely not Kansas

PS you don't rule the world anymore.

[dick dasterdly]

27 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

 

 

Thanks for making me laugh- think you are probably totally correct.

As a scientist I tend to look at things through slightly different eyes.

The dogs around us are the result of basically genetic engineering - as the dominant species on the planet we have some responsibility for the welfare of this species - in all its forms.

So as I said before - they don't ask to be born ( shot down in flames by one member who said he / she / in - between did not ask to be born either - how sad is that? )

So support the charities who are trying to take care of them and neuter .

I'm going to be controversial ( what's new ?) these days this forum is populated by our American friends- they seem to conform to the shoot/ kill / destroy brigade and hate anything that slightly impinges on their wonderful view of life.

It's definitely not Kansas

PS you don't rule the world anymore.

 

 

I agree with the majority of your post - but not that its mostly American ex-pats who are posting these 'destroy all soi dogs' views.  There are many other nationalities involved.

 

Its the expats (from many nations) who are convinced that as we are the dominant species on the planet - any other animal that annoys them should be eradicated as (according to them) those animals are only allowed where humans deem them acceptable.

 

Some poster said that soi dogs are responsible for endangered wildlife in Thailand - all I can say to this is .

 

Back on topic, I doubt there are many left on this thread that believe the scare-mongering headline that implies 50% of soi dogs are rabid.   Which is why the conversation has changed to either believing that soi dogs should be eradicated, or not.

 

Might I remind those rabid anti-soi dogs posters that the vast majority of Thais don't want soi dogs eradicated?  Why move to a country and then insist that those things you don't like should be removed, despite the opinion of the population of the country???