Dutch man with cancer says: Hua Hin Hospital fleeced me because I'm a foreigner

[KKr]

30 seconds of fame, go get a life.
Must be very peaceful in the world that this is news.

[spidermike007]

42 minutes ago, alfalfa19 said:

Indeed.   I spent a day in the hospital in San Diego w/o medical  insurance with no operations or medications, just some tests.   When I was discharged, I was presented with a bill for 25,000 dollars.  When I protested, they reduced it to 17,000, and called it "charity".   I just finished paying it off.  They can take your savings, your home, attach your paycheck.   That is a first class fleecing, in my opinion.  The American medical industry is the biggest scam in the history of the world.  And they are merciless.  Since my experience, I've done some research, and discovered many people who lost their homes and their life savings to these heartless bastards. 

 

The US is ranked way, way down on the list these days in terms of quality of care, according to the WHO it is ranked #37. And relative to the amount they charge, it is probably in the last ten in the world. The costs are positively stupid. And most Americans do not even see how broken the system is. When I travel back there I take out travelers insurance, as I do not want to get stuck with a $235,000 bill for a broken leg. I do not think Obamacare has done much to fix it. Most of the people I know spend stupid money on insurance. A good friend of mine, in his 50's, spends $800 a month for his health care insurance. If that is not a stupid premium, I am not sure what is. That is over 300,000 baht per year, for insurance. And on top of that, you get abused once you are in the hospital, by big fat, ugly nurses, that are nasty, and by doctors who will not devote any more than 40 seconds per visit, and by the entire system. By comparison, the better hospitals here are like five star resorts, for a fraction of the cost.

 

My last visit to a hospital in the US cost me $1,850 for a 45 minute visit to the emergency room. With cash discounts. That is nearly 65,000 baht!

 

I will offer a great example. A friend of mine got into a bad motorbike accident about 8 years ago. He nearly lost his leg. He got his first operation at Bangkok Hospital Samui, for about 1.6 million baht. He needed a second procedure, almost as complicated. Bangkok Hospital quoted him 1.45 million baht. He went to Bangkok from Samui, at that point. He checked into a smaller, private hospital, and they quoted him 450,000 baht for the same procedure. The surgeon took pity on him, and whispered to him that he also works at a good public hospital. He explained that the care is the same, the facility is good, although not as sparkling as the one he was in, nor did it have a starbucks in the lobby, but he promised it would cost alot less. He offered to get a quote for him, at the public hospital. In the interim, my friend, who is a retired medical professional, and knows his anatomy, called an orthopedic surgeon friend of his, in San Diego, to get a price quote. He asked him to work up a quote based on all of the cash discounts he could get, and was very specific, with exactly what kind of procedure was required, with no health insurance coverage. The Bangkok doctor came back with a quote of 46,000 baht. For the operation, a few days in the hospital, etc. His San Diego friend came back with a quote of $960,000, with cash discounts. And no follow up care. All that would be extra. That was approximately 34,000,000 baht, vs. 46,000 baht. What can one even say about that? 

[mike324]

thai hospitals also over charge on purpose if they know you are using insurance....

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

In those 10 years he probably never paid income tax...........because he didn't have an income.

 

But he definitely has paid a lot of taxes, most probable more than the average Thai will pay in the whole of lifetime, as well as visa and other fees required to stay in this country.

Yes but that's the problem, if you are a citizen of a country you pay taxes according to the law and in return you get certain benefits. If you are not a citizen you can pay taxes without receiving the same benefits as citizens not paying taxes. The same would be the case if I go to the Netherlands. The visa fees aren't a tax its a cost of staying legally here, like when I pay for a visa to visit the US. The last question is why he have not applied for citizenship here ? Then he will have the right to all the same rights of citizens.

[riverhigh]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

Why he doesn't get treated in his home country where presumably it's for free

and no one will reap him off? I know I would not risk my health being treated

here by fake doctors and charlatans,

 

And why he can't understand the charges on the bill? how hard it can be? again,

if it was me, I don't pay until someone explain to me what am I paying for,

Gee, you can't be a pussy and let "doctors"  walk all over you, and with all due

respect to the doctors, I have my rights as well......

Not  paying is not always that simple and hospitals can be intimidating. There was one instance a few years back where a Brit disputed  the bill for his mother's treatment at the then new Pattaya Hospital on Soi Baukhao. To cut a long story short the receptionist phoned up the police who turned up in lightening speed (surprise, surprise). He paid to get his frail mother out of the hospital. While I only heard his version of the story and, one could argue that a Brit with some street smarts may have handled it differently,  one has to realize that Thais have the law on their side. Once its known that the establishment has the police in their pocket its tricky. 

[spidermike007]

3 minutes ago, riverhigh said:

Not  paying is not always that simple and hospitals can be intimidating. There was one instance a few years back where a Brit disputed  the bill for his mother's treatment at the then new Pattaya Hospital on Soi Baukhao. To cut a long story short the receptionist phoned up the police who turned up in lightening speed (surprise, surprise). He paid to get his frail mother out of the hospital. While I only heard his version of the story and, one could argue that a Brit with some street smarts may have handled it differently,  one has to realize that Thais have the law on their side. Once its known that the establishment has the police in their pocket its tricky. 

 

 

As a foreigner here, whether as an ex-pat or a tourist, you never get the police involved. Never, ever. It hardly ever ends well for the foreigner. Always avoid the use of the police, unless absolutely necessary. And always remember. They are NOT a law enforcement agency. They are a revenue collection agency. 

[jsgatse]

3 hours ago, Aussie Jo said:

You'd think that after living here 10 years that he'd be used to it! BTW - why didn't his Thai wife question the bill for him? Oh yeah I forgot - doctors (in this country) are always right!

I will never forget, about 4 years ago, I told my doctor at Bumrungrad Hospital that I would like a copy of my test results so that I could forward them back home to my father, whose best friend is an extremely prominent physician in the field.  The doctor went absolutely crazy and acted like a 3 year old..."I told you the problem!"  "You don't trust me?!?!"  "You think you know better than me!?!!"    I am not exaggerating when I say that it was an absolutely embarrassing scene to witness.  However, even more frightening is the fact that most Thai people (based on my 6 years of experience here) would have (A) never told their doctor that they wanted a second opinion or (B) if they had the gumption to indicate they wanted a second opinion, they would have succombed to the notion that "a person in power is always right" and not gotten a second opinion when the doctor threw a hissy fit.

I looked at the doctor after she was done acting like a baby and said "thank you for your opinion.  I'd like my files now, and I'd like to inform you that I will be making arrangements to transfer to another primary physicians" which I did immediately thereafter.

[impulse]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

ahh TVF at its dumb finest - constantly bellow about Thais ripping off foreigners - a foreigner takes a stand and makes a legitimate complaint and what do the TVF poster do, bitch about him, you couldn't make it up!

 

All I see is a guy who was protected from ever having to learn how to read and dispute a hospital bill.  Taking a journey into the real world of for profit medical care that many of us grew up in.

 

Yes, it sucks.  Get used to it.  That’s the face of non-socialized for profit medical care around the world.  (In socialized medical care, the only difference is that the government gets cheated- but they have a lot more resources than we do to prevent it.)

 

It’s a great cautionary tale for anyone going into a hospital.  Check your bill.  Carefully.  Ask questions and dispute if warranted.  But it’s hardly a reason to start a crusade.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

Only the Europeans.  Free health care apparently spoils you.

 

If he were American, he'd be marveling at how cheap his treatment was in Hua Hin.  We're accustomed to seeing line after line of obscure charges that only a forensic accountant can decipher.

No free health care in the Netherlands, but a compulsory insurance.

Edited September 13, 2016 by stevenl

[neeray]

This is a "no story, story" but garnered lots of input. Maybe the OP would prefer to pay some massive amount in a hidden form as opposed to a few baht when care is required. 

[PremiumLane]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

All I see is a guy who was protected from ever having to learn how to read and dispute a hospital bill.  Taking a journey into the real world of for profit medical care that many of us grew up in.

 

 

 

Yes, it sucks.  Get used to it.  That’s the face of non-socialized for profit medical care around the world.  (In socialized medical care, the only difference is that the government gets cheated- but they have a lot more resources than we do to prevent it.)

 

 

 

It’s a great cautionary tale for anyone going into a hospital.  Check your bill.  Carefully.  Ask questions and dispute if warranted.  But it’s hardly a reason to start a crusade.

 

 

So I expect you to be quiet if you get fleeced then  

And why the inane argument that if I had to pay for medical care then so should everyone else, that seems prevalent on this forum?  Bunch of blowhards who just love to knock everyone and everything down. 

[titanio82]

Tou can do a lot of 300 bt hospital visits for the 350 euro own risk on any Dutch health insurance, so nothing to complain about mijn vriend!

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, skippy said:

What are the chances of the dutchie being polite from the get go ? #RudePricks

Well, we don't know about him, but do know you're not being very polite here.

[norfolkandchance]

I had treatment for an infected wound in 2 private hospitals last week. Drain, clean and dress

Chiang Rai. 3 days Baht 900

Home town 3 days Baht 240

 

 

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, JimHuaHin said:

Dear Mr Scrooge,

 

I have been using Hua Hin Hospital for several years, and I have no complaints at all about the quality of health care I have received nor the cost of the medical services I have been required to undertake.  Yes, I generally use the "express service", which Thai nationals and foreigners can use at a cost of Baht 200.  And yes, I am charged a few hundred Baht extra for "Nursing Services"; which I do not mind paying as it helps the hospital provide services to others who do not have my financial security.

 

Mr Scrooge, if you do not like Hua Hin Hospital, then please feel free to try one of the private hospitals in Hua Hin, or elsewhere.  I undestand the Netherlands has an excellent public health care system.

 

54 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

No it would not be free for him.. he left Netherlands so he is no longer entitled to care. Kinda like the Brits that leave the UK are not entitled for care even though they will say they are. (Read loads of discussions here about it)

 

Question should be why no health insurance. 

 

Anyway if he has lived here so long he should have known the score.. its more expensive for a foreigner to get treated here.. its not fair .. but its how it is.

"its more expensive for a foreigner to get treated here.."

No, its not, same price. Agree with the rest of your post BTW.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

"its more expensive for a foreigner to get treated here.."

No, its not, same price. Agree with the rest of your post BTW.

 

Stevenl

 

I do think its more expensive for a foreigner because we don't have the luxury of the 30 bt system. But if a foreigner and a Thai both get treated in a public hospital I do believe they are charged the same price. Once I was treated in a public hospital (I had health insurance but the private hospital did not have the equipment to do the operation and the public one did) and it was real cheap for an operation.

 

My ex was once treated in a private hospital and it was real expensive (she got paid by the insurance so no cost to us). 

 

A great deal depends on where your treated.

[mikeoxwelling]

3 hours ago, shirtless said:

This is why Thailand is doomed we all know they rip us off , Thais are good at shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Thailand is hardly doomed, no-one outside of the TV expat community knows of the going's on in Thailand, other than what they see on pretty postcards.

[DavisH]

I assume he has no health insurance so what did he expect? Can I Thai walk into a US hospital and get free / low cost treatment? I don't think so. Actually, I've never been charged more than a Thai for treatment at a government hospital - and what I do pay was reimbursed because my wife is a civil servant and I'm covered under her health insurance. 

 

If you are a foreigner here with no health insurance then you are a fool.

[Dustdevil]

It's not bad at all in the States if you're 65+. I pay a monthly premium of $288 but for that I pay absolutely zero for all healthcare, no deductibles, no copays, and I can go to the best hospitals such as Johns Hopkins if I need to.

[Dustdevil]

Also, forgot to mention my plan also pays for foreign healthcare (80%) in perpetuity

[KOZMO]

3 hours ago, colinneil said:

He should be embarrassed even bringing up that bill.

Where does he get that he was overcharged from?

If his bill was for thousands of baht understandable, not jut a few hundred.

Sorry i do not agree that hospitals here over charge farangs.

Every 3 weeks i go to our local hospital for 3 hours intensive physio 670 baht

Sometimes 1 physio and assistant with me sometimes 2.

Cost is 670 baht  small charge for 2/3 professionals time.

 

Come on, a few hundred baht and he is complaining????  i just spent 79, 000 baht for my wifes stay in ICU in Korat for Aspiration Pneumonia.  She is still in the hospital in a regular private room and is getting oxygen and rehab. I consider this price reasonable eventhough she would get it free in America, but she cannot fly. 

[orchis]

He's Dutch...

 

[davidbond]

His Bill seems very cheap to me  try USA or any other country  ,it would be lot higher   ,Israel they take your visa card before you see doctor  

[mesterm]

3 hours ago, chrissables said:

Only the Europeans.  Free health care apparently spoils you.

 

Your lack of knowledge is laughable. There is no "free" health care. Just percieved free health care.

 

From your first day of work, a percentage of your wage is taken to cover these costs. You have no say at all about this. In addition the employee pays an even larger percentage of your salary towards your health care.

 

Today in UK, that comes to 28.8% of income. Free it is not.

 

What do you expect from Americans who apparently live in their own world.

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

This guy is out of his mind. Why should be be treated like a Thai person? He has to expect if he goes to a hospital here, he is going to pay more than a Thai person, who is at least partially covered by the national health care system. The hospitals here cost a fraction of what they do in the US, and probably in Europe. What is his problem?

 [What is his Problem?] 

 

I'm guessing people like you who readily accept the 'overcharge' or 'double charge' which in effect permits it. 

 

This is a private hospital - Thai's and Foreigners should be paying the same regardless of how normal charging the foreigner more is, its wrong. 

 

As the Complainant was receiving treatment for Prostate Cancer I'm guessing his charges were significantly more than reported, however, the press seems to favour picking up on this strange 858 baht over charge. 

[gios50hk]

I recently suffered a bad accident which resulted in my having to attend Queen Sirikit hospital near Sattahip. As part of the diagnostic process I was required to have several x-rays - but before you are allowed to be x-rayed you must pay first. At the cashier's office and clearly displayed is a sign that reads - ''Foreigners must pay 50% more than Thais''! I have never ever witnessed such overt racism before!

[Autonuaq]

He complains about the hospital bill, and change is that he can be right. 

Till now I have never seen the difference in charging of the Thai or the Foreigner

 

Of course, and they are sometimes a bit weird and strange. Same treatment different prices. 

As have seen in the many bills I did get for the fours accidents I have had and the medical care involved. Th same weird things of charging regardless if it was the company paying or private or the insurer directly one covered by insurance reimbursement.

My Question to him is: 

Did he ever has checked the bill he gets for the hospital in The Netherlands? As well did he ever went to the hospital on the 31st of December and left on the 1st of January? Then you will get weird bills.

 

[gios50hk]

4 minutes ago, Autonuaq said:

He complains about the hospital bill, and change is that he can be right. 

Till now I have never seen the difference in charging of the Thai or the Foreigner

 

Of course, and they are sometimes a bit weird and strange. Same treatment different prices. 

As have seen in the many bills I did get for the fours accidents I have had and the medical care involved. Th same weird things of charging regardless if it was the company paying or private or the insurer directly one covered by insurance reimbursement.

My Question to him is: 

Did he ever has checked the bill he gets for the hospital in The Netherlands? As well did he ever went to the hospital on the 31st of December and left on the 1st of January? Then you will get weird bills.

 

Please READ my post - and if you still are not convinced that their are two 'pricing systems' (one for Thais and a completely different one for foreigners) I suggest you visit the radiology department at Queen Sirikit hospital!

[JHolmesJr]

One of those cases where you read the headline and instantly agree.

[oceanyachting]

Surely insurance is a better way for the future?

If I am sick and needing hospital, doctors, nurses, the last thing I want to do is get into a fight over money.

Whichever insurers you like the look of, check that the hospital you are likely to visit is covered by that insurer.