Injustice echoes from all sides two years after Koh Tao murders

[DiscoDan]

16 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

He has done more for human rights and justice in Thailand than you ever will mate.

 

Thanks to people like him injustices, abuses and slavery at Thai companies have been exposed.

Its a quote from the above article if you have a problem with it I suggest you take it up with the editor of Samui Times.

[SoFarAndNear]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Don't forget that they actually confessed in the beginning and did the reconstruction -  until they got a lawyer to tell them 'hey, nobody trusts the Thai police, we can get away with this'. Some may say they were tortured into confession? Nobody confesses to murder they didn't commit. They were surely pressured to confess, and no doubt beaten up a bit, they weren't tortured that far.

 

 

Really? These two boys are kids. They probably have the intellect of a early teenager. They are in a foreign country knowing that they are illegal and could just get locked every minute. Their bosses or master are the Thai Police. The same guys who threaten and tortured them to confess. You have obviously no idea what people are capable of when they are mentally and physically their position. 

[smedly]

6 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I don't honestly know why you constantly keep say that this whole case rests on this DNA Evidence and none was ever presented. Even this LINK says: " The court also ruled there was sufficient evidence that Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo raped Witheridge before killing her and Miller on that night, including security footage, DNA traces and a phone of Miller’s found in Wai Phyo’s possession,"

 

So it wasn't all about just DNA Evidence because as you can see there was other evidence involved here to convict them. Since the security footage and having Millers Cell Phone can't be argued, then the only hope for the defense to get a new trial, or an overturned verdict, is to convince the new judges that police DNA testing procedures were flawed. Andy Hall is quoted as saying this at the end of this LINK. 

 

Flawed does not mean non-existent! It means faulty, unsound, imperfect. Your claim seems to be based on them being let go because the DNA Testing may have been imperfect in your eyes, so forget about the rest of the evidence. My view has been that if there is "Sufficient Evidence" to remove "Reasonable Doubt", as has been claimed here, then you must find them guilty.  

 

Can you not read or do you simply not understand

 

If they have DNA that matched B2 then they must be able to produce the original samples, what is so difficult to understand about that - you have been told often enough

 

As for the phone, there is so much confusion about what phone was found where and who it belonged too that the so called phone evidence is also highly suspect, it is only the police that claim the phone found at the residence was Davids phone, they have yet to explain who owned the phone found at the crime scene, it wasn't Hannahs phone as it was in her friends room and given to police.

 

Security footage ? first I heard of it, how about the cctv footage from the bar

 

 

anyway I will not be replying to your repeated nonsense again - we will agree to disagree 

 

 

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

 

Witness statements are notoriously unreliable and in any case the British police were in a far better position to judge than you or I.  Ludicrous to suggest that the British police connived just to be diplomatic. You're just plucking arguments out of the sky.

 

You do realise that your last two answers actually supported what I'm saying? I presume you meant the exact opposite. In any case, not exactly a quality deposition.

 

 

Someone on behalf of the defence tried to get the British police report released. The judge hearing this legal request refused it on the basis of greater importance of diplomatic relations. But he expressed extreme reservations about the moral aspects of his own decision, and even hinted that the report's contents might have been of use to the defence.

[smedly]

10 hours ago, smedly said:

I will say one more thing which has been repeated over an over on several threads about these murders

 

David had injuries on his body (from fully public photos that were released very early on before any cover up that may have been in play ) that were completely unexplained, they were small puncture wounds on various parts of his body very clearly visible and in my opinion were caused by the assault and fight that took place, an expert pathologist would have been able to reveal how these wounds occurred if they were allowed to.....and I stress if they were allowed to, things don't work here the way they do in the west, we all assume that a pathologist will do his job and tell the truth, I have no doubt that somewhere there is a report from a professional person that gives a detailed report on how these injuries may have occurred - has anyone seen it ? 

 

IMO they could have been consistent with punches from someone wearing a ring with something sharp protruding about 1-2cm ............the point is these injuries were never explained, they were most likely to the bone and would have left a certain pattern and calling card, I am not accusing anyone - I am simply stating what I saw - I will continue to draw my own conclusions  as will others reading this post

this is very important, during a murder investigation it is extremely important to investigate all injuries on the victim and to establish how they were caused, under normal circumstance it is the job of the pathologist to establish these findings and do a professional job and not exclude anything from his/her final report, such a report should remain intact in its entirety and be made available to the court and all interested parties unaltered or doctored and leaving nothing out, therefore these injuries very visible to various parts of Davids body should have been included - I do not believe they were and remain unexplained

[Artisi]

10 hours ago, smedly said:

I will say one more thing which has been repeated over an over on several threads about these murders

 

David had injuries on his body (from fully public photos that were released very early on before any cover up that may have been in play ) that were completely unexplained, they were small puncture wounds on various parts of his body very clearly visible and in my opinion were caused by the assault and fight that took place, an expert pathologist would have been able to reveal how these wounds occurred if they were allowed to.....and I stress if they were allowed to, things don't work here the way they do in the west, we all assume that a pathologist will do his job and tell the truth, I have no doubt that somewhere there is a report from a professional person that gives a detailed report on how these injuries may have occurred - has anyone seen it ? 

 

IMO they could have been consistent with punches from someone wearing a ring with something sharp protruding about 1-2cm ............the point is these injuries were never explained, they were most likely to the bone and would have left a certain pattern and calling card, I am not accusing anyone - I am simply stating what I saw - I will continue to draw my own conclusions  as will others reading this post

You mean the puncture wounds that look a lot like they could have been inflicted by the ring a certain fellow connected with the island wears?

[greenchair]

15 hours ago, Slip said:

This post is staggering- anyone who seeks to find information about this case from almost 100 years ago will quickly see that it bears zero resemblance to the KT murders.

I fear you may suffer not a little ridicule for this latest barrel scraping.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Joseph_Smith

 

Of course the cases are nothing like each other, the point  ( that you obviously selectively ignored  ) is how many coincidences can happen is 1 night. For me there was 1 too many. 

[greenchair]

28 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Someone on behalf of the defence tried to get the British police report released. The judge hearing this legal request refused it on the basis of greater importance of diplomatic relations. But he expressed extreme reservations about the moral aspects of his own decision, and even hinted that the report's contents might have been of use to the defence.

 

Well that's not what everyone else read. The judge said, there was nothing in the coroners or police findings that would be of help to the b2. Therefore would not release it. 

His mention of reservation about releasing it may actually refer to conclusive dna evidence that would clear all this up. Evidence that because of the death penalty, they could not share. Because after demanding dna testing by the brits, upon meeting with the coroner , the defence did an about face and have done everything within their power to stop any dna from being independently tested. 

[Captain Jack]

Even under Thai law it is required that the prosecution prove the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt. Given the evidence mentioned it is impossible to see how such guilt could possibly have been proven and as such the accused should never have been convicted, even if they actually did it.

 

The crime scene wasn't secured until several hours after it was discovered. So much so that several gruesome pictures of the bodies taken by passers-by appeared on social media. Also the DNA samples from the scene weren't collected until several days after the crime. In court the prosecution were unable to produce as evidence the original samples from either the scene or the bodies.  So the scene would have been contaminated and the chain of evidence was broken. Also it is known that the accused were working in the bar where the victims were drinking just hours before their deaths, potentially explaining away any DNA connection.

 

The CCTV footage presented by the prosecution is vague, of poor quality, from another location and only shows one person.

 

The phone presented as being found in the abode of the accused  is disputable since the phones of both victims are otherwise accounted for.

 

I see reasonable doubt.

 

 

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, Captain Jack said:

Even under Thai law it is required that the prosecution prove the guilt of the accused beyond a reasonable doubt. Given the evidence mentioned it is impossible to see how such guilt could possibly have been proven and as such the accused should never have been convicted, even if they actually did it.

 

The crime scene wasn't secured until several hours after it was discovered. So much so that several gruesome pictures of the bodies taken by passers-by appeared on social media. Also the DNA samples from the scene weren't collected until several days after the crime. In court the prosecution were unable to produce as evidence the original samples from either the scene or the bodies.  So the scene would have been contaminated and the chain of evidence was broken. Also it is known that the accused were working in the bar where the victims were drinking just hours before their deaths, potentially explaining away any DNA connection.

 

The CCTV footage presented by the prosecution is vague, of poor quality, from another location and only shows one person.

 

The phone presented as being found in the abode of the accused  is disputable since the phones of both victims are otherwise accounted for.

 

I see reasonable doubt.

 

 

Correction: The phones were accounted for. There is even a photo available of David's phone on top of a police report from the early days of the investigation. Once the police targeted the B2 as scapegoats, they decided that one of the victims' phones would be a part of the damning evidence. It was to be Hannah's phone for a few days, until a video of Hannah's friends handing it into the police surfaced. Then it changed to David's phone. Comical if it weren't all so tragic.

[Shatian]

It is very disturbing that the police officer in charged arrested the brother of the headman and said that the son of the same man had escaped to Bangkok and that they were in the process of arresting him from evidence the police had. He also said they were not scapegoats. Why was he removed from the investigation? What happened with the CCTV evidence that he said led to the arrest of the headman's brother? This is injustice of the first rate brand. In a country where dogs' lives are valuabled more that human lives, getting two innocent foreigners to put them on death roll is not strange.

[changnaam]

It was interesting (not the correct word, sickening / disturbing / unjust) that all of the apparent evidence which could have been used, DNA, DNA on victims, CCTV footage was used up / disappeared yet they manage to get a verdict with circumstantial evidence of being seen near the site, phone mysteriously turning up next to their residence etc etc.

Shame this has been out of the spotlight so long now.

 

[Jai Dee]

Several posts containing defamation have been removed from this thread.

 

From the Forum Rules:

 

6) You will not post comments that could be reasonably construed as defamation or libel.

Defamation is the issuance of a statement about another person or business which causes that person to suffer harm. It does not have to be false to be defamatory. Libel is when the defamatory statement is published either in a drawing, painting, cinematography, film, picture or letters made visible by any means, or any other recording instruments, recording picture or letters, or by broadcasting or spreading picture, or by propagation by any other means. Defamation is both a civil and criminal charge in Thailand.

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, changnaam said:

It was interesting (not the correct word, sickening / disturbing / unjust) that all of the apparent evidence which could have been used, DNA, DNA on victims, CCTV footage was used up / disappeared yet they manage to get a verdict with circumstantial evidence of being seen near the site, phone mysteriously turning up next to their residence etc etc.

Shame this has been out of the spotlight so long now.

 

 

 

 

"Shame this has been out of the spotlight so long now. "

 

Agree 100 %

[JustNo]

I think for the poor family members here, it is easier to find the Burmese guilty because they can find closure easier that way. Of course this is an unconscious thought process stemming from Thailand offering to them 'guilty' people. If they do not believe that these 2 are guilty, then in their minds they still do not know what happened to their loved ones, and so the suffering and painful search would continue. 

[kingalfred]

Meanwhile the so called farang legal experts and expat Burmese fan club are at each others with the 2 groups trading accusations against each other on an almost daily basis.

 

http://www.samuitimes.com/the-koh-tao-murders-two-years-on/

 

Sadly it now appears that the western ex-pats surrounding that legal team seem to spend a great deal of time sending unsavoury emails to Mr Yarwood and Ms Buchanan defending Mr Holmes and his conviction for fraud.
As it is well known that Andy Hall has an axe to grind with the Thai justice system for his own case,

 

 

 

 

That the best you got for supporting the fake convictions?


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[Khun Han]

9 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/20/burmese-murder-accused-british-backpackers-thailand

 

"The pair said that on the night of the murder they had been drinking heavily and playing guitar on the beach, and by late evening were “so drunk we couldn’t walk properly”. They both said they had no idea who carried out the crime."

 

Dan, it doesn't matter what you people post or how much you post. Almost everybody who has followed this case knows it's a sham. It's just so obvious. Trying to manage peoples' perceptions about this via the internet is just flogging a dead horse. The only thing that can help the real killers is time. The disgust and revulsion felt toward them will eventually fade, and this story will just be yet another blot on Thailand's reputation. Until that point, the real killers will just have to suck it up and put up with the unwanted but deserved attention. I expect they have plenty of hangers-on and amoral hiso friends to make them feel better, anyway.

[kingalfred]

In the west we often see cases of miscarriages of justice some years later. Don't hold your breathe in LOS!


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[Lancashireman]

Sadly, TV contributors are regurgitating the same miss, near miss hypotheses...

Nowt we can achieve just repeating ourselves...

[alfalfa19]

On 9/14/2016 at 0:09 AM, JAG said:

Lots of others have been following this business more closely than I have.

 

The victims families, may believe that the Burmese lads are guilty, that belief should not mean a conviction.  A conviction should need firm proof. I am not aware of any such proof. But I think you're right,  it won't go anywhere,  but because there are too many influential figures ( with money) involved. 

The entire charade has been bought and paid for, at very high cost.  There are no refunds, and the fall guys must fall. 

[Sydebolle]

The Thai justice system has to understand, that this case will not automatically "disappear" from the limelight; too much damage has been done. Declare a mistrial - anything else would be a farce and the real murderer(s) are untouchable; it seems 

[Shatian]

14 hours ago, JustNo said:

I think for the poor family members here, it is easier to find the Burmese guilty because they can find closure easier that way. Of course this is an unconscious thought process stemming from Thailand offering to them 'guilty' people. If they do not believe that these 2 are guilty, then in their minds they still do not know what happened to their loved ones, and so the suffering and painful search would continue. 

If the families of the victims should find closure on innocent scapegoats who have been condemned to death and will die like their love ones too then it means they will never find any closure because the ghosts of the two scapegoats will haunt them forever. In MHO they should be fighting hard to know the truth and that will give them more closure than allowing two innocent souls to be killed in the name of finding closure. That closure will be false closure indeed.

[JustNo]

Just now, Shatian said:

If the families of the victims should find closure on innocent scapegoats who have been condemned to death and will die like their love ones too then it means they will never find any closure because the ghosts of the two scapegoats will haunt them forever. In MHO they should be fighting hard to know the truth and that will give them more closure than allowing two innocent souls to be killed in the name of finding closure. That closure will be false closure indeed.

I never said it was right, but giving my opinion on why they accept that so easily 

[ctwtn]

This is absolutely insane.

[evadgib]

16 hours ago, sweatalot said:

"Shame this has been out of the spotlight so long now. "

 

Agree 100 %

Others might too if something NEW was on offer instead of the usual tumble drier!

Edited September 16, 2016 by evadgib

[stephenterry]

9 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Others might too if something NEW was on offer instead of the usual tumble drier!

 

 

I suggest if you were incarcerated on Death Row following a miscarriage of justice based on non-existent and unverified evidence that was merely hearsay, you'd welcome each and every attempt to highlight the case, even if that meant a regurgitation. Especially if the media attention made it more uncomfortable for the corrupt scum on Koh Tao.   

[bizboi]

On 14 September 2016 at 3:24 PM, drbamboo said:

Justice for the family and for the innocents. Find the real murder/s ...... so easy 

They’ve already found them - and taken filthy bribes from their families to let the scumbags free - easy - don’t go to Koh Tao - but of course people don’t care enough to boycott the place!!

[bizboi]

On 14 September 2016 at 3:36 PM, robblok said:

IMHO the family has had access to far more information then anyone here on the forum and also has far more at stake.. so I kinda trust their judgement. The family has had information from the UK police and other info.

 

Anyway like you I have not followed this closely but I would certainly think that the family had a lot at stake here and would have had far more information and would know more then most .. if not all.. on this forum.

 

Just because we have not seen it does not mean its not there.

I kinda dont - because non of the secret information you blab on about came out in the trial - i wonder what YOUR vested interest was - the family have been told - you’re never going to get the real killers put behind bars so don’t  rock the boat!! Read Haanas sisters reports on a popular social media to prove what I say!!.

[robblok]

On 14-9-2016 at 5:59 PM, Artisi said:

It is my understanding that the Bill weren't allowed any investigations while here, but toured around and shown and told by the BIB the standard line, it was them - the two scapegoats.

I am sure they came to some conclusions of their own, but without anything concrete they would have to hold their tongues.

I said all I want to say made my points you can disagree and I can disagree with you. Not going over this all again. I made my points and stay with them.  

 

I have no vested interests I live in BKK, and have no connection with KoTao. 

 

 

[DM07]

There is a question lingering here, for all the shills, who still defend the RTP and the verdict:

if it would be YOU or your son or even a friend, being send to death- row on these "evidences"...would you be okay with that?

Would you settle for a magic bullet, that might have been shown to some very special people, but not all involved...especially the defense?

Would you settle with a "because we said so" and a "the samples have been used up/ lost/ destroyed" (depending on who you had to listen to?)

Would you be okay, with a suspect, "helping" the police to "secure" the crime -scene?

Would you be happy with lost evidence (hair), tempered evidence (clothes) or never reviewed evidence (CCTV)?

 

I make it simple for you: you would fight hell and high water, call the RTP and the judge every name in the book and spit in the face of everybody, who defended this poorly executed comic- strip of a trial!

And of course you would be right!

And if that ever happens, I hope, you meet people like yourself!

That might open some eyes!

Edited September 16, 2016 by DM07