PEA meter change.

[Goanna]

We requested a meter change 3 months ago, to go from construction rate of 8 baht/ unit to the normal rate of 4 baht.

Pea report after a month, that they wont change it, because we use too much power for the new meter, and will have problems. 

Our monthly bill ranges 2500 to 3500 baht.  This is just a 3br 2 bath house.

We went again yesterday and they agreed to change it, costing us 4000 baht. But they still say the meter will not give us enough power. Our biggest draw is one aircon, an 18000 btu, which is not used often.

 

As all the discussions were in thai, I am unsure about the new meter. I am sure I dont want to pay double what everyone else pays. Any tips?

[bankruatsteve]

Chances are they want you to go to a "15/45" meter instead of the "5/15" that is (guessing) the one currently in place.  4K baht to do that seems a bit steep but now I can't remember our cost.  You are dealing with the PEA, right?  Anyway, you probably do want to go with the 15/45 meter - which is 15 amp nominal and 45 amp max for meter calibration.

 

[Crossy]

+1 to Steve.

 

What does your current meter say it's rating is? Post a photo of the front if you can't tell.

 

Have you had and passed your PEA inspection?

 

You should get a refund of the deposit paid for the existing meter to offset the deposit on the new one.

[wayned]

I posted, as did others, the PEA rates for different size meters a long time ago, but can't find it.  If I remember right the 15/45 meter is around 4700 baht and the 5/15 is a little less than 1000 baht.  So if you upgrade , with the credit it will be near 4000 baht.

[kamalabob2]

I certainly see the value of a good translator when I go into the Buriram PEA office. I took a photo of the posted rates to obtain a new electric meter in rural Issan Thailand. I have observed that the size of the power lines going in "front' of a Isaan home might not supply proper voltage for the size of load center inside the home. Then the issue of what size cable from the PEA meter that travels underground in conduit or up on a power line to the home load circuit breaker load center is important to discuss with the PEA  and a licensed electrician. 

[Goanna]

The current meter is a 15/ 45.

I don't get why the need to change meter, and not just change the unit rate in their system.

 

No, we haven't had the inspection yet. Probably going to fail.

 

And is this what they do to give a lower unit price? I may have to go tell them to leave it as it is. I just checked some thai type houses, and they are 5/ 15.

[bankruatsteve]

It's not like the PEA to recommend a 30a meter for your configuration.  Are you sure they are talking about the meter and not the cable from the meter to your CU?  Here they need 25mm2 Al for that but other PEA want 10mm2 Cu (is that right?).  Suggest you re-visit and clarify exactly what they are saying.

[sometimewoodworker]

If you asked to "change" the meter . That could be the problem. 

 

When we discussed our supply with the PEA area manager (an old school friend of SWMBO that's why he came) he said that when we are ready for the switch if we wanted the same supply (in our case a 30/100) then they would do their inspection then change our billing, no meter change needed.

Edited September 16, 2016 by sometimewoodworker

[lopburi3]

I suspect the 15/45 meter being used now is under the work contract and they believe you want them to replace with the old 5/15 meter which was probably your normal meter.  You are actually using a lot of power and if 5/15 meters are common the voltage is likely going to be low with that much drain unless you also pay for a new transformer.  I pay about 6 or 7k per month but have a 6 BR, 6 bath house with 9 people in hot Bangkok.  

[Goanna]

So should I stick with the 15/45 meter, and keep paying 8 baht/ unit?

Edited September 16, 2016 by Goanna

[Goanna]

1 hour ago, bankruatsteve said:

It's not like the PEA to recommend a 30a meter for your configuration.  Are you sure they are talking about the meter and not the cable from the meter to your CU?  Here they need 25mm2 Al for that but other PEA want 10mm2 Cu (is that right?).  Suggest you re-visit and clarify exactly what they are saying.

Aha. Thanks Steve. I had heard that it had to be changed. As I said, I dont see why they just cant change the rate on their system.

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, Goanna said:

So should I stick with the 15/45 meter, and keep paying 8 baht/ unit?

 

No, tell them you want to retain the 15/45 and (having passed the inspection) get a permanent supply.

 

Our construction supply was a 15/45, I don't recall how much it cost for the permanent supply but I'm sure it wasn't the full 4k.

 

EDIT our bill on a 15/45 is about 5k, would be 10k on a construction supply, saves the PEA asking full amount in one month.

[Strange]

9 hours ago, Goanna said:

We requested a meter change 3 months ago, to go from construction rate of 8 baht/ unit to the normal rate of 4 baht.

Pea report after a month, that they wont change it, because we use too much power for the new meter, and will have problems. 

Our monthly bill ranges 2500 to 3500 baht.  This is just a 3br 2 bath house.

We went again yesterday and they agreed to change it, costing us 4000 baht. But they still say the meter will not give us enough power. Our biggest draw is one aircon, an 18000 btu, which is not used often.

 

As all the discussions were in thai, I am unsure about the new meter. I am sure I dont want to pay double what everyone else pays. Any tips?

 

When I built my house I remember they had some kind of "Emergency Line" used for construction with a high rate. Once the house was finished and we got the address and all that, we went back and they changed the meter. Im sure you have a deposit for the meter you currently have, so go back to the PEA and tell them politely that you want to change your meter to a 5/15 with the standard government rate. You may get money back after the deposits are moved around. 

 

Some might say that you need a 15/30 and if you do the calculations you might, but I'm sitting in a 5/15 house right now using 2 18k Aircons and all the regular house appliances. 

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

No, tell them you want to retain the 15/45 and (having passed the inspection) get a permanent supply.

 

Our construction supply was a 15/45, I don't recall how much it cost for the permanent supply but I'm sure it wasn't the full 4k.

 

I know you know your stuff, I've read some of your tutorials before, but why do you recommend a 5/15 for a small house with 1 AirCon? Are you concerned with a 5/10 causing a bottle-neck?

[Crossy]

11 minutes ago, Strange said:

Some might say that you need a 15/30 and if you do the calculations you might, but I'm sitting in a 5/15 house right now using 2 18k Aircons and all the regular house appliances. 

 

Running two 18k aircons consuming about 3.5kW on a 5/15 is pushing it, you probably won't fry it, but going over 15A will take it outside its calibration range. You can bet it won't read low.

 

Do you have an electric water heater?

 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

I know you know your stuff, I've read some of your tutorials before, but why do you recommend a 5/15 for a small house with 1 AirCon? Are you concerned with a 5/10 causing a bottle-neck?

 

Where do I "recommend" a 5/15 for anything over a small shack?

 

99% of 'farang' homes will be just fine on a 15/45.

 

AFAIK PEA don't do a 5/10.

 

 

[Strange]

Dang typing too fast and not proofreading. 

 

I meant but why do you recommend a 15/45 for a small house with 1 AirCon? Are you concerned with a 5/15 causing a bottle-neck?

 

But ok got it about calibration. 

 

I do remember there being a price difference in meters. When I built my house (sold now) I used a 15/45 meter after the "Emergency Line" was removed. I was just asking from a price standpoint. If a 5/15 is sufficient for the OP's situation? 

 

[bankruatsteve]

I'm pretty sure nobody is recommending that you go to a 5amp meter.  Stick with the 15a and GO TO THE PEA to find out exactly what the issue is.  The rate for KWH is the same no matter what meter you have (I think) so that's not an issue.  Again, it could be they don't think your cable is up to grade.  (?)  Otherwise, there is no reason the PEA would be resisting for you.  GO TO THE PEA to sort it out.

 

[Strange]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Running two 18k aircons consuming about 3.5kW on a 5/15 is pushing it, you probably won't fry it, but going over 15A will take it outside its calibration range. You can bet it won't read low.

 

Do you have an electric water heater?

 

The house is rented. I sold the house I built. 

Yes have a water heater its a 3500 watt panasonic. We have 3 AirCons, 12k 18k 18k, Hitachi GX 250 water pump, 55" LCD TV. Big Panasonic Fridge. The big things are the Air and Mostly run 1 18k, sometimes 2 if its really hot at the same time. 

[Goanna]

Righteo then. Since the meter is not the issue on the rates, I will drag my sorry butt back to PEA with a better translator asap. I'll let you know the outcome..

[wayned]

13 hours ago, kamalabob2 said:

licensed electrician. 

 

Is there any such thing as an electricians license in Thailand? 

 

I actually have one from the US issued in the state of Mississippi in 1976.  I had to get it because I built my house under the GI bill and it was required that the house be built by a licensed contractor and wired and plumbed by licensed electricians and plumbers.  You guessed it, I also have a contractor and plumbing license!  Obtaining them in Mississippi in the 1970's was pretty much like here.  My uncle was the electrical inspector for the county and had the contacts so that I could get the other required licenses.  No tests, no $, nothing other than signing an blank application.

[Crossy]

10 hours ago, Strange said:

Yes have a water heater its a 3500 watt panasonic. We have 3 AirCons, 12k 18k 18k, Hitachi GX 250 water pump, 55" LCD TV. Big Panasonic Fridge. The big things are the Air and Mostly run 1 18k, sometimes 2 if its really hot at the same time. 

 

Out of interest, what rating is your incoming breaker? On a 5/15 it shouldn't be over 20A.

 

You are being saved from it constantly tripping by 'diversity', you rarely run everything at once and when you do the overcurrent doesn't last long. A 20A Curve-C (most seem to be C here) breaker will take between 20 and 90 seconds to trip at 40A, it will run pretty well forever at 23A.

 

[Strange]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Out of interest, what rating is your incoming breaker? On a 5/15 it shouldn't be over 20A.

 

You are being saved from it constantly tripping by 'diversity', you rarely run everything at once and when you do the overcurrent doesn't last long. A 20A Curve-C (most seem to be C here) breaker will take between 20 and 90 seconds to trip at 40A, it will run pretty well forever at 23A.

 

I know this is not right and if it was my house it would be different. Its a rental and at 5k a month its not worth the hassle to change it.

 

Meter - 60a600v Knife-Switch - 20a lumina thermal magnetic breaker - everything else except for aircons. 

 

I had 4 additional circuits run from the switched side of the 60A Knife-Switch (Bypassing the main breaker). 3 - 20a circuits for the aircons each one with a  breaker on the wall in the room where the Air is used. 1 - 20a circuit ran to the kitchen because drawing power from the from the thermal magnetic breaker caused it to trip when using the microwave knocking the whole house out of power. This was a crisis situation because I kept losing my game saves on PS4. 

 

Everything runs good now but the meter does spin pretty fast when its hot out. I run the hell out of air-conditioning and there is usually 1-2 going 24hrs a day. Electric bill 4-5k/month

[kamalabob2]

I am not able to read Thai. However the 4th baht bracket on the photo I posted from the PEA Office is a refundable DEPOSIT. Be sure to save the deposit receipt issued by the PEA. There are in fact licensed electricians in Thailand. I will dig up a copy of the electrical plan drafted by B.C.E. the licensed electrician who installed my home electrical supply. I was not keen to buy that transformer in 2008, but it all worked out.  I see this same licensed firm install electrical power to resorts, retail building and hospitals in Buriram province. The price I paid to the private electrical contractor was less costly than the written price quote provided by the PEA office. Every province must have the "go to" private licensed electrical contractor for home and resort buildinf projects. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by kamalabob2

[Goanna]

 

Today, I have spoken with a Thai guy, who is a fluent english speaker. He has had the reverse problem, of his meter not supplying enough, and had to upgrade to 15/ 45. He says the 4 baht only applies to 5/ 15 meter houses.

 

But as you can see from the pic, I have bigger problems here. With the main off, only one circuit, the GPO that the tv runs from, shows ten volts! So, there is a screw piercing somewhere or something like that. When all the switches are on with the main off, they all show 10 volts, because of the live bar. As well, the consumer unit box gives a shock, although mild. 

I'm heading back to Aus for work tomorrow, so will be running an above ground supply cable when I get back. Currently under ground. 

Thanks again guys. Gradually getting to the root of it.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Goanna

[sometimewoodworker]

29 minutes ago, Goanna said:

 

Today, I have spoken with a Thai guy, who is a fluent english speaker. He has had the reverse problem, of his meter not supplying enough, and had to upgrade to 15/ 45. He says the 4 baht only applies to 5/ 15 meter houses.

 

 Absolute and total BS 

the only thing that applies to 5/15 meter houses ( and it maybe stopped now) is that if you use less than a specific, tiny, amount then you pay nothing. Mum in law had free electricity for many months.

 

all other charges for electricity are the same, independent of the meter size.

 

the meters cost more not the power.

[Goanna]

Thanks mate. I will persue it further when I get back . He and my wife say that that is PEA policy. But, as with the yellow book, anything they don't want to do, they lie about. It's common f' ing sense, it's not meter size, but amount used. Or more specifically, commercial or domestic.

[Strange]

1 hour ago, Goanna said:

Today, I have spoken with a Thai guy, who is a fluent english speaker. He has had the reverse problem, of his meter not supplying enough, and had to upgrade to 15/ 45. He says the 4 baht only applies to 5/ 15 meter houses.

 

But as you can see from the pic, I have bigger problems here. With the main off, only one circuit, the GPO that the tv runs from, shows ten volts! So, there is a screw piercing somewhere or something like that. When all the switches are on with the main off, they all show 10 volts, because of the live bar. As well, the consumer unit box gives a shock, although mild. 

I'm heading back to Aus for work tomorrow, so will be running an above ground supply cable when I get back. Currently under ground. 

Thanks again guys. Gradually getting to the root of it.

 

The meter does not supply power to anything. The electricity simply passes THROUGH the meter where your consumption is measured in units. I think you might have some confusion there. The meter does not "Cap" your electrical availability. It is simply there to accurately measure your consumption. 

 

The 4 baht per unit for only a 5/15 meter is untrue. The consumption is the same regardless of meter. The different meter options are available for houses that CONSUME more electricity and can measure them more accurately. 

 

Clear as mud right? 

[Strange]

27 minutes ago, Goanna said:

He and my wife say that that is PEA policy.

 

You really need to go to the PEA and talk to them. 

[Goanna]

29 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

You really need to go to the PEA and talk to them. 

Sign language?

 

It's too late now, because I go back to work tomorrow. I will persue it when I get back though. I can see it's not right. Hopefully, I will take my english speaker friend with me. He teaches english to 15 plus students after school hours, and has asked me to come talk with them as a native english speaker. So he will owe me a favour.