Two visa exempts in a row with a fresh passport

[steveharrisisthelegend]

Hello dear Thaivisa members,

I have just recently entered Thailand on a visa exempt and extended it for 30 days at Bangkok Chaengwatthana immigration. 

I would like to exit Thailand by flying, spend a few days in Vietnam and fly back, entering again on the visa exempt. Would this be ok?  I just recently had to re-new my passport so its a fresh passport with no other stamps other than the visa exempt stamp and its extension that Im currently staying on. 

 

My travel partner is not available during the weekdays during the period when I have to leave the country, so it would be extremely convenient if I could enter for another 30+30 days on a second visa exempt before applying for a proper visa. Im of Finnish nationality in my late 20s if that matters.

Any replies would be dearly appriciated, as it would be great to be able to do this without the fear of being denied entry at Thai border. Thank you very much fellow Thai visa members. 

[ubonjoe]

There is no limit on the number of visa exempt entries you can do.

You can easily get another one.

[elviajero]

• A new passport doesn't make any difference as your previous history is on the immigration system.
• You should have no problem getting another visa exempt entry. However, if you have many previous exempt entries they might question you at length about why you spend so much time in Thailand.
• It is highly unlikely you would be denied entry at the border (unless they are very suspicious that you are working here), even with a history of visa exempt entries, but they might insist that you get a visa before entering in the future.

[darrendsd]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no limit on the number of visa exempt entries you can do.

You can easily get another one.

 

You give good info on the forum Joe but in this instance it is poor

 

Whilst there may be no official limit we have all read the stories on here about people being questioned at various Airports when the system gives a alert and there has been a few stories of people being refused entry

 

Whilst in this instance the OP "should" be ok, to say there are no limits is simply not true in the current climate

[JackThompson]

I would put it another way: If you have not spent much time in Thailand recently, it will not be a problem.  If you have been here for significant time**, it could be a problem, and you could be refused entry, and forced to buy a ticket out.  Most people get warnings, others have not.

 

**Unfortunately, there are no clear rules as to when a person has crossed over the line with Visa Exempt use, so fear, uncertainty, and doubt is the operative mood, unless one only stays in Thailand for brief periods.  Those with the funds to stay and spend longer are taking a risk, and should always use a Tourist or other Visa.

 

The frequent legal-rationale for refusals of Visa Exempts (written in Thai so you have no idea why until later), is not having the means of financial support.  Therefore, if attempting a Visa Exempt, do have 10K Baht in Cash on your person, and show it, politely and in a "being friendly and helpful" spirit, at the onset of any questioning.

[steveharrisisthelegend]

Hi, thank you all for the swift replies. Very helpful information!

I have been staying mostly in Thailand for 5-6 years now but always on a tourist or education visa. Just now it would be convenient to do two visa exempts in a row before obtaining a proper visa. 

Thank you for the tip with cash, I will make sure to carry at least 10 000 baht in cash with me when entering. I agree with the following part very much: " politely and in a "being friendly and helpful" spirit, at the onset of any questioning. " - that will go a very long way in this country! My Thai girlfriend will be traveling with me and hopefully in case any issues arise she could help me talk my way in. She knows her way with words with Thais a whole lot better than I do =p.

Not planning to get a 3rd visa exempt in a row most likely - honestly I think right now its a good idea to be saving up for Thai elite visa, the other options for long-term stay here are becoming increasingly difficult. 

Thanks again for all the tips, its a nice community you have here! =) 

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

You give good info on the forum Joe but in this instance it is poor

 

Whilst there may be no official limit we have all read the stories on here about people being questioned at various Airports when the system gives a alert and there has been a few stories of people being refused entry

 

Whilst in this instance the OP "should" be ok, to say there are no limits is simply not true in the current climate

I only stated the fact there is no limit.

I prefer to keep to the facts unless for example if the OP had stated he already a lot of them already I might advise him other wise. Adding a lot of other info can confuse things in some cases.

[darrendsd]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I only stated the fact there is no limit.

I prefer to keep to the facts unless for example if the OP had stated he already a lot of them already I might advise him other wise. Adding a lot of other info can confuse things in some cases.

 

You did state there are no limits, in the current climate whilst there are no official limits this is being disregarded at Immigration, 

 

It would not confuse him or anybody for that matter to tell him that there is a possibility he could be questioned or as another poster has stated bring some cash just in case, I would advise anybody who is trying for their 2nd VE in a row to do the same 

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, steveharrisisthelegend said:

... I have been staying mostly in Thailand for 5-6 years now but always on a tourist or education visa. ...

 

In that case, I definitely would not try a Visa Exempt.  Perhaps I am overly cautious - even paranoid - but you do know what happens if refused at an airport - yes?  

 

If you attempt this, I wish you the best of luck.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

In that case, I definitely would not try a Visa Exempt.  Perhaps I am overly cautious - even paranoid - but you do know what happens if refused at an airport - yes?  

 

If you attempt this, I wish you the best of luck.

I would say it is paranoia.

He  apparently is no where near the 6 entry alert and there is good chance they will just stamp him in without even looking in his passport.

I don't recall any reports of immigration considering visa entries when reviewing visa exempt entries. They prefer that people get visas. 

If he was doing a border crossing it might be different. There is a far greater chance being turned away at some of them.

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

In that case, I definitely would not try a Visa Exempt.  Perhaps I am overly cautious - even paranoid - but you do know what happens if refused at an airport - yes?  

 

If you attempt this, I wish you the best of luck.

I think your caution is justified although I also think it's highly unlikely that they would get denied entry at the airport.

 

It's my understanding that Immigration are tackling Visa Exempt Entry [VEE] from two fronts; 1.) Overuse. 2.) Illegal working. The 6 entry flag is primarily for the IO's to assess what the person is doing in Thailand so often and push them towards using appropriate visas. It also helps to weed out potential illegal workers, BUT they are on the lookout for that group at all times regardless of the number of VEE's. Someone with a 5-6 year history of Tourist/ED entries would, IMO, be on the radar and there's a high chance of them being questioned even on a second VEE.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

I think your caution is justified although I also think it's highly unlikely that they would get denied entry at the airport. ...

 

I agree that the odds at the airport are much better than, say, Poipet (though one can just walk back to Cambodia, in that instance).  If it were a year ago, yes, the pattern at that time was only targeting serial Visa Exempt users, so no problem.  Now, I am not so sure.

 

Do we know if it only the 6-entry trigger at play these days?  I recall an Exempt-denial at the airport, even after months out-of-country, who merely had a history of being here long-term in the past.  Granted, he made the mistake of telling the truth to the IO - that he was planning to get an ED Visa, next.  Hopefully the IO's screen won't show the OP's previous "ED" Visa - but the in/out history could still spell trouble, given the length of it. 

 

I think it is only avoiding a battle with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, which allows long-termers on Tourist Visas to still be admitted.  They have tightened the screws visas consistently - eliminating double/triples, taking EDs to learn Thai from a fun-experience into running a gauntlet, and now ending multi-visa issuance at honorary consulates.

 

It is not only 'odds based on last reports' but also the 'momentum and direction' I am considering, as to odds of trouble.

[thejudgegiles]

I think this should be totally fine.

 

I've been here 20+ years on all sorts of different visas, tourists, visa exempt, work permits and several overstays, once of which was very long.

 

You might think of me as a risk taker, but I'm always prepared.

 

I just renewed a passport in the UK prior to the new laws in March, and since returning have 3 border visa exempts back to back, all of which have been extended and I will be going to do the same soon (the last time I wasn't warned or told I should get a tourist visa). I think I dare risk four as on the last visit I saw a US guy do exactly that and walked through behind me with no issues (he also wasn't warned or told he should change to a tourist visa). I will of course be prepared for decline in which case I will say I wasn't aware and will ask if I can be permitted just this one last time, and acquire the correct visa next time. If that fails I will go to an Embassy and obtain a tourist visa.

 

I'm not encouraging people to take risks like I have, but I'm always polite and able to show funds (although never once been asked) and understand the system. I always have legitimate answers to any questions I may be asked, as it so happens I will be getting a work permit soon but just doing some other things first before starting work.

[oldlakey]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I only stated the fact there is no limit.

I prefer to keep to the facts unless for example if the OP had stated he already a lot of them already I might advise him other wise. Adding a lot of other info can confuse things in some cases.

Joe thats got to be the understatement of the year so far 5555555555555

[oldlakey]

I have personally had eight entries in 2016

They ranged from eight hours to 21 days only two were of double figures though

I was on my way to somewhere else each time just using Thailand as a stepping stone

The only comment was around the fifth or sixth entry when he was heard to say you like Thailand as he stamped me in

[steveharrisisthelegend]

Hi, thank you for the informative posts again, very informative!!! 

 

If one were to attempt this what would be a good story to say in case he was questioned? Thank you!

[louse1953]

2 hours ago, steveharrisisthelegend said:

Hi, thank you for the informative posts again, very informative!!! 

 

If one were to attempt this what would be a good story to say in case he was questioned? Thank you!

How about the truth.

[thecyclist]

My feeling is that things have significantly relaxed again from when they started the crackdown on out/ins 1 or 2 years ago,but there is always the risk that you get a surly IO who is in a bad mood.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, louse1953 said:

How about the truth.

 

If you plan to stay longer, and tell them, "the truth" would be a good way to increase the odds of being forced to buy an emergency ticket out, and held in some form of captivity until that flight departs. 

 

Honestly, with a 5-year history, I cannot think of a believable story.  Maybe showing a ticket-out within 30 days, and a promise you are "really going home for good this time" could help, but I would not bet on it.

 

OTOH, you said your GF would be with you - not sure if a promise you are getting married might help?  But that would depend on the IOs perspective on mixed-marriages, I suppose.  Whatever your story, make sure you and she tell the same one.

[steveharrisisthelegend]

Thank you for the replies. Very good information. 

 

Something has come up that I would appreciate advice on - apparently there's serious flooding at Ho Chi Minh City now and I'm thinking of just flying in and out to Kuala Lumpur airport by myself the day my visa expires instead. Return at a busy time to Don Muang airport with my bank book and 10 000+ baht on me. Good/bad idea? Thanks :)

 

That would be my second visa exempt lifetime.

[BritTim]

If it is your second visa exempt lifetime, you will be fine at Don Muang. Your explanation of changing your plans because of the flooding in Vietnam has the ring of truth in the unlikely event you are questioned.

[Penefattore]

On 9/20/2016 at 2:58 PM, ubonjoe said:

There is no limit on the number of visa exempt entries you can do.

You can easily get another one.

Last time I have been told I should get a regular tourist visa instead of just showing up. Something was written under my stamp. I enclose scan file of passport page.

[Fithman]

I cannot read what is written(too small) 

 

However, if you have been advised to obtain a visa before attempting to enter Thailand again it might be wise to do so.

[Penefattore]

to read it you have to download the file and then zoom . I can read thai alphabet but it's written so badly I can't distinguish the letters.

[Penefattore]

23 minutes ago, Fithman said:

I cannot read what is written(too small) 

 

However, if you have been advised to obtain a visa before attempting to enter Thailand again it might be wise to do so.

the fact is I am travelling to adjust my portfolio and when I come back I would need 30 days only...so why waste time effort and a full passport page to get a 60 days visa ? by the way I am not doing visa runs, last time I stayed in Cambodia 13 days, next time I will go to Africa and stay away about 30 days and after that I will probably go to Laos ...mine are real trips, not border runs.

[Fithman]

I have no idea what "adjust a portfolio" means but clearly you are now being watched closely by the Thai immigration authorities. You must, of course,  make your own decisions about whether you wish to run the risk of being refused entry next time you attempt to enter Thailand without a visa.

[Penefattore]

but the thai visa exemption scheme is a law or is a joke ? I mean is there a law stating that it cannot be used more than a certain number of times or not ?

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Penefattore said:

but the thai visa exemption scheme is a law or is a joke ? I mean is there a law stating that it cannot be used more than a certain number of times or not ?

It is not a law, it is a scheme. There is no official published limit because the decision is left to IO's and border checkpoints. These days if you overuse the scheme you'll have pressure applied to get a visa for the actual reason for your frequent visits. 

[Penefattore]

the reason is to support my four girlfriends....should I ask for a work permit for that ? what a silly paranoid country....

[Fithman]

3 minutes ago, Penefattore said:

what a silly paranoid country....

 

If that is what you believe then find a country more suited to your needs.