Expats Who Moan About Thailand Should Either Shut Up Or Leave

[webfact]

OPINION:

 

Expats Who Moan About Thailand Should Either Shut Up Or Leave

David Rosenfield

 

Featured image is by Björn Bechstein (used under a CC BY-ND 2.0 licence)

 

BANGKOK: -- I love my country (the USA), but as you’d expect of any country that constitutes approximately 4.5% of the world’s population and 6.5% of the world’s land mass, it has its share of problems.

 

Particularly given its history with Native and African Americans, geographic divide, racial/ethnic makeup (approx. 63% white, 17% Hispanic/Latino, and 13% African American), and income inequality (according to Bernie Sanders, the Vermont senator who lost to Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries, the top 0.1% of Americans have as much wealth as the bottom 90%), it’s seemingly impossible to appease everyone in the world’s biggest melting pot.

 

And while I try my best to put my country in the best light possible, admittedly, at times, I lose my cool and go off on rants about what I perceive to be some of America’s biggest problems (primarily gun violence, inequality and the cost of college tuition).

 

But as an American, and particularly given our steadfast belief in our 1stAmendment right to freedom of speech, for better or worse, I have that right.

 

As an expat in Bangkok, however, nothing irks me more than when other, fellow expats, talk poorly about Thailand.

 

Putting aside the fact that I think Thailand (and Bangkok in particular) is wonderfuland probably my favorite country of the 50-plus that I’ve been fortunate enough to visit, what bothers me the most is: why do these people think they have the right to complain about a country that they’re voluntarily living in?

 

Of course, if you’re living in Thailand, or any country that’s not your own, notthrough your own volition (e.g., as a political refugee or on a forced work assignment), or alternatively if you’ve married a local person, had a child with a local or otherwise committed yourself to living there permanently (by purchasing a retirement home, for instance), then you’ve likely earned your right to complain, as you’re presumably as invested in the country as a local citizen.

 

But if you move to another country voluntarily, without the intention of staying permanently, where do you get off criticizing it?

 

It would be like visiting someone’s home and then telling them that they’ve decorated the place incorrectly, or eating at someone’s house and then telling them the meal was inedible.

 

In response to my last article titled 6 Things I Wish My Family & Friends Understood About Thailand, I was completely taken aback by the number of negative comments proclaiming Bangkok (and Thailand generally) to be a filthy, uncivilized, “third-world” city (and country).

 

Equally surprising were the number of personal attacks made on me for merely heralding, what I perceive to be, the many wonders of the Kingdom. Below are just a few of the  comments I received in response to my last post:

 

• “The fact that Thailand is a third-world country (hopefully soon second world) does not make it less attractive or liveable…It just makes the author really retarded…”
• “Go and see more places around the world…you will get your facts rite”; again, for the record, I’ve been to over 50 countries on 6 continents
• “Bangcrooks a first world city? Wow, it may take me all day to recover from this one…The only first class thing in Bangcrooks may be the prices around Sukhumvit and the hookers!!!”
• “First class world city but a population sub third world people.”
• “They must have forgotten to post this article on 1st April”
• “How much were you paid by TAT [Tourism Authority of Thailand] mate for this wax eloquent style article?”

 

What was even more surprising, however, was when I looked at the Facebook profiles for some of these people: low and behold, many of them were foreigners currently residing in Bangkok or elsewhere in Thailand.

 

What was even more surprising, however, was when I looked at the Facebook profiles for some of these people: low and behold, many of them were foreigners currently residing in Bangkok or elsewhere in Thailand.

 

Now granted, I can’t be certain of the circumstances under which they reside here, but I’ll go out on a limb and hypothesize that at least some, if not the vast majority, of them are here on their own volition and are not committed to remaining here permanently.

 

Full story: http://whatsonsukhumvit.com/expats-who-moan-about-thailand-should-shut-up-or-leave/

 

-- © Copyright what's on Sukhumvit 2016-09-27

[Crossy]

Ok, off topic posts have been removed.

 

Let's try to keep to the subject of the OP.

 

[ScotBkk]

Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the list goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!


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[robblok]

For a large part I agree the article, you should hear those same foreigners complain about the foreigners at their own home who are not adapted enough according to them. 

 

We got the option to leave and we should if we don't like it here. Still a bit of criticism is a good thing but not what I have often seen here. 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, ScotBkk said:

Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the lust goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!

 

Thanks for the first smile of this thread :)

[robblok]

1 minute ago, ScotBkk said:

Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the list goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!


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No need to keep quit about these things, valid complaints.. but if you really hate them (I dont like them) just leave because it is not going to change anytime soon. 

[ScotBkk]

No need to keep quit about these things, valid complaints.. but if you really hate them (I dont like them) just leave because it is not going to change anytime soon. 

Yes - I love the - Better you leave Brigrade.

Why must I leave because of points of view. If all the people that have their own opinions where asked to leave Thailand here on TV - would thaivisa still have enough members left to make these posts worthwhile ?

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[rijb]

Lo (low?) and behold!  A U.S. lawyer against free speech.

[RoboGeisha]

Maybe it's worth spending a second to think about why such a huge number of Thailand lovers from all over the planet turn to moaners after looking behind the facade.
Shut up or leave is a very common Thai response to "solve" things but it won't trigger possible improvements for Thais and expats alike.

Edited September 27, 2016 by RoboGeisha

[Crossy]

Yes, there are a huge number of valid complaints about the way things are here and I can whinge with the best of them (I'm a Brit after all, it's what we do best).

 

But IMHO they are offset by the good things in life.

 

The weather is generally pleasant, after a grey summer's day in Manchester a nice warm day, even with rain, is just heaven.

I (ok my wife) have a home I couldn't dream of affording in the UK within an hour of the CBD of a capital city but still out in the sticks (at least for now).

I also earn rather more and pay significantly less tax than I did in Europe.

 

 

[Yoram]

Whenever two good people argue over principles, in this case, about Thailand,

 they are both right.

Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach
 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, ScotBkk said:

Yes - I love the - Better you leave Brigrade.

Why must I leave because of points of view. If all the people that have their own opinions where asked to leave Thailand here on TV - would thaivisa still have enough members left to make these posts worthwhile ?

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No need to leave because of your points of views.. just seems to me if you really hate these things and they bother you a lot why stay as it only ads to stress and misery. I still think there is more good here then bad.. otherwise I would be gone. Why stay somewhere I hate it.

[happy Joe]

A customized diatribe for cheerful Thai Visa members.

[ScotBkk]

No need to leave because of your points of views.. just seems to me if you really hate these things and they bother you a lot why stay as it only ads to stress and misery. I still think there is more good here then bad.. otherwise I would be gone. Why stay somewhere I hate it.

Since you seem to follow the other posts can you Please point anywhere I used the word - HATE !!!!!!!

Incidentally, I love Thailand but don't readily agree in any shape form or fashion in the way we're treated as Paying' guests !!!!

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[rijb]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

Yes, there are a huge number of valid complaints about the way things are here and I can whinge with the best of them (I'm a Brit after all, it's what we do best).

 

But IMHO they are offset by the good things in life.

 

The weather is generally pleasant, after a grey summer's day in Manchester a nice warm day, even with rain, is just heaven.

I (ok my wife) have a home I couldn't dream of affording in the UK within an hour of the CBD of a capital city but still out in the sticks (at least for now).

I also earn rather more and pay significantly less tax than I did in Europe.

 

 

 

Nothing wrong with being grateful.  And nothing wrong with criticism.

 

The best critics offer alternative solutions to the problems they see.

 

However, the Op's (just another critic) solution to the problem - is to silence other critics! 

 

  

[Macthehat]

Those reminds me when I worked with this guy and everyday we sat for  lunch together  . Everyday he had ham sandwiches and everyday he would complain " this ham is too thin " or " this ham is too fatty " or something else would annoy him about these sandwiches . One day I said to him " why don't you ask your wife to make you something different ? " his reply was " I live alone and make my own sandwiches "  .......... I think of this guy everytime I hear someone complain about Thailand or any other place or situation they put themselves in .

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, ScotBkk said:

 

Since you seem to follow the other posts can you Please point anywhere I used the word - HATE !!!!!!!


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Scot, I said IF     I don't know how much you dislike the things you brought up and how they influence your life here.  I only said IF and that I would not stay somewhere I hated being. I have plenty of complaints about this place too.. and actually I don't mind people complaining. Besides the guys that with almost every post bring down all Thai people for the actions of a few. Those guys do annoy the hell out of me. 

[YeahSiam]

Every last one of these chronic whiners knew the score before they set up home here - they knew they couldn't buy land, they knew they couldn't own companies 100%, they knew they had to report every 90 days. Did they think that somehow, the country would ease policy once they'd been here a little while and shown themselves to be "good" eggs?

 

If they don't like it, fine - there are two procedures to deal with that. One's called repatriation, the other's called relocation.

 

[KittenKong]

31 minutes ago, webfact said:

But if you move to another country voluntarily, without the intention of staying permanently, where do you get off criticizing it?

 

It would be like visiting someone’s home and then telling them that they’ve decorated the place incorrectly, or eating at someone’s house and then telling them the meal was inedible.

 

I dont know about you but I wasnt invited to live in Thailand: I pay a fee to live here. I also pay for everything I do here (often more than a local would pay) and I am not allowed to work or do many things that I would be able to do freely in my home country. Every 90 days I am reminded that I have no right to be here and that the government is suspicious of me and needs to keep track of me, even though I own my own home, have never committed any sort of crime and have plenty of money, all of which is far more than can be said for many Thais.

 

So I would say that living here and complaining about its drawbacks and problems is the same as complaining about getting bad food in a restaurant, or complaining about a smelly dirty hotel. And I think I'm entitled to do that.

[shows]

I recently left Thailand after 20 years of living there. Of course there were things I really disliked about it but it is their country, their culture so at best I can express, mildly, an opinion.

 

What I found, however, was expats who praised their own country ('in xyz we do this' syndrome) to the detriment of Thailand. BUT I ask did they really look at their own country? Those who had been away for years were comparing the country of their younger days. If they ever spoke of their country in today's terms they did the usual crotchety old man thing of complaining about youth, immigration, race, unions, socialism - anything smelling of the Cold War.

 

After coming back I am finding that, perhaps correctly, people are complaining about immigrants (either refugees or "legal")  not conforming to the cultural norms of my society. And I will say sometimes it is jarring to see a burqaed lady in my quiet little town. However, when I was 10 I would be a little shocked at a fully habited nun walking down the street. The nuns discarded their costumes and maybe the next generation of migrants will discard theirs. Most of the other immigrants have as generations have passed.

 

Long rambling to get to the point. You won't change Thais, only an evolution from the inside will do that. Certainly get annoyed about not obeying traffic rules (which we all know would go a long way to solve the traffic problem), that the dessert comes before the soup even in the best restaurants, they walk slower than snails etc. Get over it, accept it. They will change what they want to and when they want.

 

How my small town has changed in 20 years has been amazing. I fled it at 20 and have returned to it at 70. I needed the bit in between but what I've got is suiting me now as did Thailand when I was there.

[YeahSiam]

I think most of the whiners just don't like being in a minority that has no power and has to comply with rules made by people they regard as inferior academically and economically to themselves.

Classic Bwana syndrome

Edited September 27, 2016 by YeahSiam

[ScotBkk]

I think most of the whiners just don't like being in a minority that has no power and has to comply with rules made by people they regard as inferior academically and economically to themselves.
Bwana syndrome

We write to say what We cannot speak. !!



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[tonray]

Thailand has its problems but I would not be here if not for the fact that my country has bigger ones, most notably pricing the vast majority of residents out of a decent lifestyle, even if you have worked all of your life. So yeah...not happy with being a somewhat 'unwelcome guest' here but better than the current alternative.

[villagefarang]

I don’t like complainers either but as a happy longtime resident of Thailand I have adapted to my environment and found ways to live with both Thais and foreign complainers.  The complainers I simply ignore while the Thais I mostly like.

 

I figure I can’t change the complainers so I simply keep my distance when I can and leave as soon as I can when I am cornered.  They are free to be miserable people if they wish but I don’t wish to be in their presence.

 

I see the effort to change other people to please me as a complete waste of time.

Edited September 27, 2016 by villagefarang

[geriatrickid]

46 minutes ago, rijb said:

Lo (low?) and behold!  A U.S. lawyer against free speech.

 

Lawyer?b He is not a member of the Thai bar is he?

Isn't this  guy a contract lecturer at one of the low end universities?

He's happy. Good for him.  I have different needs and goals than a teacher who  is delighted by the fact that

" I make literally 5% of what I used to make back in the US, but I also get four months paid vacation a year (compared to two weeks), work 15-20 hours/week (compared to 50-70), get free housing (compared to $3000/month rent in NYC), get free transportation between our city and suburban campuses (compared to $200/month in public transport costs back in the US), get a free round trip flight home every other year, and most importantly, enjoy the thought of going into work every day and actually look forward to returning to work after a long holiday."

Back in my university days I was harvesting vital organs and would be soaked in blood and juices, I would have been enjoyed an opportunity to become a "dive instructor".  I could have worked on my tan,  had ample opportunity to fornicate etc.  It's all about perspective. 

This clown  has no standing in Thailand. He's a nobody. He was a nobody stateside. Good for him that's happy. Nobodies deserve a shot at happiness too.

 

 

 

 

 

[ScotBkk]

Every last one of these chronic whiners knew the score before they set up home here - they knew they couldn't buy land, they knew they couldn't own companies 100%, they knew they had to report every 90 days. Did they think that somehow, the country would ease policy once they'd been here a little while and shown themselves to be "good" eggs?
 
If they don't like it, fine - there are two procedures to deal with that. One's called repatriation, the other's called relocation.
 

Shame we couldn't do the same with Thai Apologists - Happy Days !!!


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[sanuk711]

Quote

Do you honestly and truly believe everyone should keep stumm about how they're treated in Thailand a place were us so-called Farangs are seen as mere money-spinners. Can't buy a house, can't own our own businesses, have to report every 90 days irregardless of circumstances - the list goes on. Yeah' let's just bite our lip and be happy with our lot !!!!  ScottBKK

.

As someone has already pointed out, these conditions didn't come in the after you arrived.

They were in place when you decided to come & live here.

.

It's like buying a Red Car then walking around complaining that you don't like Red.

All your doing is pointing to your own stupidity-if you decided to come live in a country that has conditions that you don't like to live under.

 

90 day reporting--which is now defunct as you can do it on line, really how tough is that, you must be a real busy man.

 

Quote

We write to say what We cannot speak. !! --ScottBKK

So they are arresting people for speaking what you are writing---it's pure fantasy isn't it, there are certainly not whispering  what they disagree with in the bars that I go to. When did they last arrest a farang for complaining about what we complain about here. ?? When did they last deport someone for that. There is only one subject you should be careful talking about--and that was also here a long time before you decided to make it your home.

[kingalfred]

All this from a female who isn't living in Thailand most of the time and more importantly doesn't know how the dysfunctional country damages Thais who are not are wealthy are herself!


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[Sharp]

Simple it can't be that bad or they'd be gone! 

[z42]

Like so many others here there are things that drive me crazy in this country. But the lifestyles i and my wife and kids can enjoy here are much superior to those that would be available in the west.

People have every right to have a moan, write a song or whatever about all the stuff that irks them in Thailand.

 

I personally say good luck to anyone here whatever their take is on life. I love living here. Work is great, social opportunity fantastic, and general living standard very pleasant also.

There is so much opportunity here, i am honestly surprised people stay miserable for so long in some cases. How is it even possible ?