Cats4ever Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said: BDS is s hateful, anti Semitic movement and Waters comes off as a screwball for supporting it. Stick to the music. https://engageonline.wordpress.com/2016/06/01/why-bds-is-antisemitic-david-hirsh/ Conflating anti semitic with anti Israeli is, given the history of the last 85 years or so, a shameful diversion. Careful with that Axe Ulysses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cats4ever said: Conflating anti semitic with anti Israeli is, given the history of the last 85 years or so, a shameful diversion. Careful with that Axe Ulysses. If the flavor of "anti-Zionism" is the kind that opposes the existence of Israel, as the core founders of the BDS do, then it is indeed a Jew hating movement. If it's just normal criticism of Israeli government policies as you would criticize flawed policies of any nation, then it is not. Get the difference? It's a BIG difference. As far as Roger Waters, he has said a lot of hateful things directed at Israel, he definitely is an obsessive and infamous Israel demonizer, he obnoxiously tries to get other artists to boycott Israel (that's their business), he has repeatedly expressed support for Palestinian terrorists and terror organizations. Whether he hates Jews in his heart or not isn't particularly relevant. His actions are sufficiently bad to justify condemnation. Edited October 1, 2016 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Next off-topic post about Israel, Palestine, BDS or religion will earn someone a suspension. Stop baiting and bickering and get on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 If his silly song of protest about Teachers not letting little yobs have it their way shows his values who is suppressed by himSent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I shall call my I Phone Roger, it change surprised to suppressed because its smart, or thinks it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 On 30/09/2016 at 5:08 PM, canuckamuck said: Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody has hundreds of them. Get it right! Do you have hundreds of arse holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Ace of Pop said: If his silly song of protest about Teachers not letting little yobs have it their way shows his values who is suppressed by him Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect My son went school with Waters' son. I won't tell you which one but it's one of the most switched on schools in the U.K. Great education. (Bit pricy though). Can you guess? I think Another Brick in the Wall was aimed at more traditional British schools and the attitudes they inculcate. If we can't listen to our poets; who should we listen to?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Grouse said: Get it right! Do you have hundreds of arse holes? I'm surrounded by them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 On 30.09.2016 at 11:32 PM, Ulysses G. said: I get sick of idiot celebrities giving silly opinions on all and sundry. It makes it hard to respect them for what they do well. Sean Penn is great actor, but what a loon. True. It just goes to show what a silly world we live in when someone that can play great music is regarded as a political authority. He has as much right to say what he thinks as anyone, but he shouldn't use a concert that people pay to see to push his political opinions. That is disrespectful to people of an opposing viewpoint that paid to hear music, not be captive to a political speech. Yes, I am making a speech about politics on TV, but no one is forced to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: True. It just goes to show what a silly world we live in when someone that can play great music is regarded as a political authority. He has as much right to say what he thinks as anyone, but he shouldn't use a concert that people pay to see to push his political opinions. That is disrespectful to people of an opposing viewpoint that paid to hear music, not be captive to a political speech. Yes, I am making a speech about politics on TV, but no one is forced to read it. Or maybe he had read Pastor Niemoller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Grouse said: If we can't listen to our poets; who should we listen to?? People who have consistently demonstrated wisdom and have broad life experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 19 minutes ago, canuckamuck said: People who have consistently demonstrated wisdom and have broad life experience? Shall I tell you about my life? They say I'm a man of the world..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: True. It just goes to show what a silly world we live in when someone that can play great music is regarded as a political authority. He has as much right to say what he thinks as anyone, but he shouldn't use a concert that people pay to see to push his political opinions. That is disrespectful to people of an opposing viewpoint that paid to hear music, not be captive to a political speech. Yes, I am making a speech about politics on TV, but no one is forced to read it. No one is forced to go to Roger's concerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 minute ago, bannork said: No one is forced to go to Roger's concerts. Or anyone's for that matter. As I said I agree with him on some issues and disagree on others. If I said, celebrities shouldn't use their celebrity to sell their political views, I'd be a hypocrite. Because I sure love it when celebrities are expressing opinions that I love! To wit, and in support of Waters about trump: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 minute ago, Jingthing said: Or anyone's for that matter. As I said I agree with him on some issues and disagree on others. If I said, celebrities shouldn't use their celebrity to sell their political views, I'd be a hypocrite. Because I sure love it when celebrities are expressing opinions that I love! To wit, and in support of Waters about trump: A concert is about music, if a guy/gal musician wants to talk politics then they should book a venue to do so, not mix it up........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, transam said: A concert is about music, if a guy/gal musician wants to talk politics then they should book a venue to do so, not mix it up........... From Woody Guthrie to Joan Baez to Radiohead and countless artists inbetween, music has always been about expressing dissatisfaction with governments and about sharing alternative ideas. Anyone whe goes to a Roger Waters concert and is surprised that he should make political comment is naive in the extreme. If you want safe, sanitised and anodyne, there are plenty of alternatives for you to choose from. Edited October 2, 2016 by RuamRudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: From Woody Guthrie to Joan Baez to Radiohead and countless artists inbetween, music has always been about expressing dissatisfaction with governments and about sharing alternative ideas. Anyone whe goes to a Roger Waters concert and is surprised that he should make political comment is naive in the extreme. If you want safe, sanitised and anodyne, there are plenty of alternatives for you to choose from. Messages in songs have always been around.....Personal singular stuff is a no - no....Do the rest of the band agree with one members view on stuff...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 4 minutes ago, transam said: Messages in songs have always been around.....Personal singular stuff is a no - no....Do the rest of the band agree with one members view on stuff...? Apologies but the internet stasi in my office blocked whatever you linked to so I am not sure if that is relevant... But Waters was performing as himself - he was not representing Pink Floyd. In a free world, he can use any platform open to him. If people don't accept that, then stay away in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: Apologies but the internet stasi in my office blocked whatever you linked to so I am not sure if that is relevant... But Waters was performing as himself - he was not representing Pink Floyd. In a free world, he can use any platform open to him. If people don't accept that, then stay away in future. Stay away from what.....? This topic or Floyd, which is now playing in my house.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just now, transam said: Stay away from what.....? This topic or Floyd, which is now playing in my house.... From concerts by artists known to espouse views that you do not concur with and that you object to being exposed to. If you are caught unawares, chalk it up to experience and avoid them in future - simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 minute ago, RuamRudy said: From concerts by artists known to espouse views that you do not concur with and that you object to being exposed to. If you are caught unawares, chalk it up to experience and avoid them in future - simple. So I must ask for a concert agenda for bands that usually just play their stuff.......Hmmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 He posted Elvis Thats off topic we are discussing musicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, transam said: So I must ask for a concert agenda for bands that usually just play their stuff.......Hmmmmmmm. If your ears are so fragile then this, indeed, could be the safest course of action. In fact, maybe go as far as fully insulating yourself from the world - there are some really scary things out there. Or you could shrug it off and accept that (1) we don't all hold the same points of view; (2) some people, in positions where they can speak to a large number of other people, feel sufficiently passionate about their beliefs that they want to talk about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 1 minute ago, RuamRudy said: If your ears are so fragile then this, indeed, could be the safest course of action. In fact, maybe go as far as fully insulating yourself from the world - there are some really scary things out there. Or you could shrug it off and accept that (1) we don't all hold the same points of view; (2) some people, in positions where they can speak to a large number of other people, feel sufficiently passionate about their beliefs that they want to talk about them. No we do not ALL have the same point of view, perhaps the concert audience does not ALL have the same point of view, hence my stance.... I really don't need advice from you on how I should think...That is for me to decide...I have seen scary in my long life and a guy doing politics at a rock concert ain't one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 On 1 October 2016 at 7:41 AM, daveAustin said: Whether I agree with MexiWall or not, this is all quite ironic coming from the guy that penned most of The Wall, which, brilliant though it is -- as Dave Gilmour succinctly put it -- is 'all a bit of a whinge'. And, yes, although off-topic, Water's was/is a bit of a C U Next Tuesday. Just as Mr Mason. What a succinct observation. roger the only reason you have that stage is because of the music. Frankly nobody gives two hoots what you think about politics, it is a private matter how you vote. If you want to enter politics, give up flogging the 20 year old record you helped make and become one. If you want to be a musician be one but stick to what you are good at and don't mix the two. FYI I also do not like David Gilmours political views but I don't get them thrown down my throat when I pay to go and see him. Gotta respect that plus he is an awesome musician having turned what would likely have been a soon forgotten 6 chord dirge into one of the most revered songs of the Floyd repartee containing perhaps the greatest solo ever recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I wonder if the views that Waters espoused mirrored those held by the posters getting most bent out of shape by him, would they still be as vocal. Personally, I think Ted Nugent is a horse's anus and that he has some repulsive views, but I have no problem with him spouting off left, right and centre and using his fame to spread his message. That is part and parcel of freedom of expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said: I wonder if the views that Waters espoused mirrored those held by the posters getting most bent out of shape by him, would they still be as vocal. If he was spouting such hateful opinions that you did not agree with, I doubt if you would be standing up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuamRudy Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just now, Ulysses G. said: If he was spouting such hateful opinions that you did not agree with, I doubt if you would be standing up for him. I assure that I would - as I mentioned, Ted Nugent is a repulsive redneck but I support his right to be a repulsive redneck and also his right to share his repulsive views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 10 hours ago, Grouse said: My son went school with Waters' son. I won't tell you which one but it's one of the most switched on schools in the U.K. Great education. (Bit pricy though). Can you guess? I think Another Brick in the Wall was aimed at more traditional British schools and the attitudes they inculcate. If we can't listen to our poets; who should we listen to?? Might I respectfully request you find out what you are commenting on before commenting. The history behind Pink Floyds wall is well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 10 hours ago, The Dark Lord said: Might I respectfully request you find out what you are commenting on before commenting. The history behind Pink Floyds wall is well documented. Yes, you are quite correct. Quite bizarre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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