Deputy PM confirms current administration has power to dissolve new parliament

[MZurf]

Because they are trying to move away from a 2 large party parliament to a multi-party system where a deadlock is much more likely.

No, they're not. They're trying to move away from a system where pesky outsiders can obtain real power. Simple as that.

[MZurf]

 
 Its not actually, its someone who wasn't prepared to put up with the instability and death on the streets created by a bitter old fool intent on revenge and found that actually what he was doing was working rather well and decided it should continue until a proper government could be formed with the interests of the people at heart. That day will hopefully arrive come the elections. If it doesn't and hasn't then we start again until they learn to behave and serve the people rather than themselves!!

Wow! For a person with such a cynical view of democracy you sure are amazingly naive when it comes to to the "PM".

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, MZurf said:

 

No, they're not. They're trying to move away from a system where pesky outsiders can obtain real power. Simple as that.

 

 

 Yes, it will be real power if they are there in power following a democratic general election. That's what you are after isn't it?

 Voted in by the people!! Is that not it?

[candide]

Anyway, with the appointed senate holding 1/3 of votes, it is most likely that the government will be of the right colour (I mean not red). So all political polical powers and counter-powers will be aligned to the same political (economic?) interests.

The only counter-power left is that they will actually need to get laws voted by the lower house. Or did I miss something and they also have a mechanism for by-passing the lower house if the parliament doesn't want to vote their laws?

[lucky11]

53 minutes ago, candide said:

Let's just look at the 2014 data

According to different sources (BOT, IMF, World Bank, THai Chamber of Commerce...), the intial forecast for 2014's GDP was between 4.0 and 5.2%, (made at the end of 2013). (After 7.2% growth rate in 2012)

 

http://www.mfa.go.th/business/contents/files/eco-factsheet-20131220-100445-235435.pdf

 

The GDP growth in 2014 was only .08%, so depending of the initial forecast you choose, it's a loss of between 3.2% and 4.4% of GDP.

That is a loss of GDP between 419 billion baht and 576 billion baht. So it's in the same range as the loss from the rice scheme. The difference is that the rice scheme money went into the Thai economy, while the vanished GDP growth was completely lost.

Not to mention the loss of GDP growth in 2015 with 2.8% only.

 

 

39 minutes ago, candide said:

Anyway, with the appointed senate holding 1/3 of votes, it is most likely that the government will be of the right colour (I mean not red). So all political polical powers and counter-powers will be aligned to the same political (economic?) interests.

The only counter-power left is that they will actually need to get laws voted by the lower house. Or did I miss something and they also have a mechanism for by-passing the lower house if the parliament doesn't want to vote their laws?

 

 You are coming around - yes, the right colour (not red)! If all of this can happen under democracy I might be pursuaded to start liking it, or even at a push, become democracy's biggest fan.

 

[baboon]

7 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 

 

 You are coming around - yes, the right colour (not red)! If all of this can happen under democracy I might be pursuaded to start liking it, or even at a push, become democracy's biggest fan.

 

So democracy is fine just as long as it comes up with the answer you like, otherwise it is useless.

This forum... I despair at times...

[MZurf]

 
 Yes, it will be real power if they are there in power following a democratic general election. That's what you are after isn't it?
 Voted in by the people!! Is that not it?

" Yes, it will be real power if they are there in power following a democratic general election."

Huh?

" That's what you are after isn't it?
 Voted in by the people!! Is that not it?"

Voted in by the people, yes. Controlled by a group who claim to be pure (but are just as bad as the people they took power from, and can only be removed by guns), no.

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, baboon said:

So democracy is fine just as long as it comes up with the answer you like, otherwise it is useless.

This forum... I despair at times...

 

 Not the answer I like - the result of what the majority of people have voted for. They could well be the same thing!!

 

[candide]

18 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 

 

 You are coming around - yes, the right colour (not red)! If all of this can happen under democracy I might be pursuaded to start liking it, or even at a push, become democracy's biggest fan.

 

Well, what the Junta is currently implementing has very little to do with democracy.... You may be happy with it but it's not democracy.

 

Edited October 1, 2016 by candide

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Not the answer I like - the result of what the majority of people have voted for. They could well be the same thing!!

 

Wibble Wibble. 

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Well, what the Junta is currently implementing has very little to do with democracy.... You may be happy with it but it's not democracy.

 

 We haven't had the election yet!!....not now, but after the election IT IS democracy!! If you don't like this, I'm afraid that that's the way the cooky crumbles and you can have no complaints - neither can the US!!

[Eric Loh]

18 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 

 

 You are coming around - yes, the right colour (not red)! If all of this can happen under democracy I might be pursuaded to start liking it, or even at a push, become democracy's biggest fan.

 

 

The same kind of logic junta huggers subscribed to getting rid of corruption (not military). 

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, baboon said:

Wibble Wibble. 

 

 You've flummoxed me with that one - I have no answer.

[heybruce]

 

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Yes it would have been much cheaper to allow the rice scam to continue, the Yingluk government to borrow B2.2 trillion to cover its losses, more phony G2G schemes, more real G2G schemes where crony firms make huge profits, and for them to vote themselves an amnesty for their crimes against the Thai people.

The BP some days ago stated at current rates repaying the debt incurred will take 16 years.  My children would be dead of old age before the B2.2 trillion was dented.

BTW try for accurate figures rather than someone's prediction based on other countries.

 

Actually it would have been much cheaper to have allowed the 2014 election.  It would have been much better for the future of Thailand also.

[candide]

1 minute ago, lucky11 said:

 

 We haven't had the election yet!!....not now, but after the election IT IS democracy!! If you don't like this, I'm afraid that that's the way the cooky crumbles and you can have no complaints - neither can the US!!

You don't seem (or want) to get it!

With 250 appointed senators they only need 125 MPs to get a majority in Senate + Parliament and get the Prime Minister they want (not to mention the unlected PM scenario).

So it means that with only 25% of votes in the election (by the citizen), they can choose the PM and the government they want. (not to mention other aspects such as the title of this thread.

You call that democracy?

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Obama is part of the disease and not the person to orchestrate this. It will take longer than 8 years to sort the democracy out in the US - more like 8 decades. Do you seriously think you have genuine freedoms in the US? Don't delude yourself!!

 

In the US we have the freedom to criticize our government, read uncensored news, eat sandwiches and read "1984" in public, etc.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Despite your disapproval of the means by which this is being done - you have to admit that he is doing an excellent job in curbing corruption and bringing those who commited it to justice. I don't care particularly for democracy - especially US style democracy (a joke). Keep up the good work Prayut and I hope that he remains in control after free and fair elections have taken place to satisfy the moaning Americans. They should get their house in order first before criticising other nations!! 

We have a "good work Prayut" poster!  I thought they had all gone into hiding, shamed by the actions of the junta.  Apparently this one hasn't been keeping up with events.

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Not the answer I like - the result of what the majority of people have voted for. They could well be the same thing!!

 

What was wrong with the answer from the internationally monitored 2011 election, other than you didn't like it?

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

What was wrong with the answer from the internationally monitored 2011 election, other than you didn't like it?

 

 Unrealistic populist policies were used to bribe the electorate and this brought the downfall of the government. She was allowed to govern, wasn't she? She had a go, true to form it was ravaged with rampant corruption from the self same policy that put her there, people power turfed her out, she was impeached and is currently going through several court cases for gross negligence in a job that she wasn't qualified to do having had the same amount of political experience as Prayut had pre-coup!! No, I didn't like it at all!!

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

I'm not defending the PTP government, just the people's right to choose their government.  All the faults of the PTP government should have been dealt with through the courts and elections.  Nothing justified the coup.

 Well that's good then - you will have a democratically elected government sometime in 2017. Will you be happy after this??

[lucky11]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Nice rant.  I'm tempted to post obvious questions, but I'll just note that you offered no evidence to support your rant, and we're well off-topic.

 

However I can't resist stating that I don't believe you are an expert on this subject.

 

 Your perogative!!

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 Well that's good then - you will have a democratically elected government sometime in 2017. Will you be happy after this??

No, that's not good.  Under this constitution, "approved" in a sham referendum, Thailand will have a powerless democratic government in 2017.  The military and those that the military serve will still be in charge.

[tbthailand]

12 hours ago, jamesbrock said:

Why did they even need to stifle freedom of speech before the referendum?

 

It's not like the junta selecting all 250 senators who will then propose an unelected PM who will rule for 8 years—and will simply dissolve the newly elected Parliament if they fail to select the correct unelected PM—is anything even closely resembling the draft constitution which (only 34% of) the population endorsed.

 

Returning Thailand to democracy - does anyone still believe this?

of course not... 

 

The only reason to pretend is for the international community. 

[lucky11]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, that's not good.  Under this constitution, "approved" in a sham referendum, Thailand will have a powerless democratic government in 2017.  The military and those that the military serve will still be in charge.

 

 Sham referendum!! where is your evidence?

[tbthailand]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, that's not good.  Under this constitution, "approved" in a sham referendum, Thailand will have a powerless democratic government in 2017.  The military and those that the military serve will still be in charge.

Yep, ...

[lucky11]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Are you saying that other parties didnt offer populist policies to try win the election? Bit naive of you. In fact I am appalled that Thailand political parties are moving away from ideology or platform to win election which is not good for Thailand democracy.

All parties offer tempting populist policies to win voters. The Dem Party campaigned to raise minimum wages by 25%, free public school, free UHC and pension allowances among their bag of goodies. They still lost. All parties campaigned on the same footing. 

 

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Are you saying that other parties didnt offer populist policies to try win the election? Bit naive of you. In fact I am appalled that Thailand political parties are moving away from ideology or platform to win election which is not good for Thailand democracy.

All parties offer tempting populist policies to win voters. The Dem Party campaigned to raise minimum wages by 25%, free public school, free UHC and pension allowances among their bag of goodies. They still lost. All parties campaigned on the same footing. 

 

 I dont care which party offers unrealistic populist policies ban the lot of them and only allow sensible, achievable ones that have been properly costed.

 Did ANY of their populist policies come good? NO, they didn't, all they did was bring her government down and put her in a bit of bother - serves her right for cheating!!

 

[tbthailand]

1 hour ago, lucky11 said:

 

 We haven't had the election yet!!....not now, but after the election IT IS democracy!! If you don't like this, I'm afraid that that's the way the cooky crumbles and you can have no complaints - neither can the US!!

you  seem to be woefully uninformed about the new "constitution"... 

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, that's not good.  Under this constitution, "approved" in a sham referendum, Thailand will have a powerless democratic government in 2017.  The military and those that the military serve will still be in charge.

 

1 minute ago, lucky11 said:

 

 Sham referendum!! where is your evidence?

 

Mighty fine blinders you're wearing there lucky!  Didn't you obvserve:

 

"Impolite" discussion of the referendum punishable by ten years in prison.

 

Government funded propaganda on television and by door-to-door uniformed government representatives.

 

Village loudspeakers blaring out reminders to vote twice daily (and still only a 60% turnout).

 

No independent monitoring of the lead-up, vote, or vote count (we have to take the junta's word for it the referendum passed).

 

Worst of all, a vote where the choice was between military rule under a constitution written for the military and military rule under a constitution to be chosen by the military.

 

If you consider that a free and fair vote, you have your head stuck in a very dark place.

[ratcatcher]

3 minutes ago, lucky11 said:

 

 I think it looks great - nice artwork and good colour contrasts!! I just had to edit this - OK, what is it?

 

If you're British, look at your passport. A version of what hanuman2543 said in an earlier post.

[lucky11]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

 

Mighty fine blinders you're wearing there lucky!  Didn't you obvserve:

 

"Impolite" discussion of the referendum punishable by ten years in prison.

 

Government funded propaganda on television and by door-to-door uniformed government representatives.

 

Village loudspeakers blaring out reminders to vote twice daily (and still only a 60% turnout).

 

No independent monitoring of the lead-up, vote, or vote count (we have to take the junta's word for it the referendum passed).

 

Worst of all, a vote where the choice was between military rule under a constitution written for the military and military rule under a constitution to be chosen by the military.

 

If you consider that a free and fair vote, you have your head stuck in a very dark place.

 

 All water under the bridge now!! What's done is done - you'll just have to belief their honesty and live with it!!