Letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour for Non-immigrant B multiple-entry visa

[bud2]

I’m from the UK, 45 years old. I work for an Australian company. My job is to travel around Southeast Asia to meet with distributors, visit potential customers and attend conferences. I spend most of my time in Thailand.

 

For the past two years, I have had Non-immigrant B multiple-entry visa issued by consulates in Brisbane and Melbourne. Our distributor in Thailand provided their corporate documents for the visa application.

 

Since August 2016, Canberra and Sydney embassies are now asking for a letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour to apply for this visa. They say “To obtain this letter, the applicant’s prospective employer in Thailand is required to submit Form WP3 at the Office of Foreign Workers Administration, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour of Thailand”. See the website:

 

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa

and then type United Kingdom and select business visa.

 

I don’t have a prospective employer in Thailand. I work for an Australian company and want to visit Thailand to visit business associates and attend conferences (this is the “purpose of visit” for this visa). WP3 is obviously for people applying for a work permit to work for a Thai company. I’ve emailed the consulates in Australia; they tell me they won't issue a multiple-entry visa without a letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour.

 

I want the “Non-Immigrant Visa "B" -- To Conduct Business in Thailand”. I don’t want the “Non-Immigrant Visa "B" -- To Work in Thailand”.

 

Does anybody know more about the “letter of approval” from the Ministry of Labour and how to get it? Our distributor in Thailand has been phoning the Ministry of Labour to get this information, but nobody knows.

 

[FritsSikkink]

your conducting business in Thailand is seen by the labour office as working, so you need a work permit too.

[bud2]

2 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

your conducting business in Thailand is seen by the labour office as working, so you need a work permit too.

I don’t think I can get a work permit as I don’t work for a Thai company. I work for an Australian company. I don’t think an Australian company can apply for a work permit.

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

your conducting business in Thailand is seen by the labour office as working, so you need a work permit too.

No it isn't, and no he doesn't.

 

Non 'B' visas can be issued for either 'working' or 'conducting business'. It seems from the OP that @bud2 qualifies for the latter and does not need a work permit.

[elviajero]

Have you already applied or are you going by whats written on the website?

[JackThompson]

Re: "I’ve emailed the consulates in Australia; they tell me they won't issue a multiple-entry visa without a letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour. "

 

But you can get a single-entry, yes?  I believe it is the multi that requires that letter.  And you will get hounded at the immigration checkpoint if you enter on a multi the 2nd or later entry without a work-permit, these days.

[FritsSikkink]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

No it isn't, and no he doesn't.

 

Non 'B' visas can be issued for either 'working' or 'conducting business'. It seems from the OP that @bud2 qualifies for the latter and does not need a work permit.

he could but not anymore, that is why they ask for the letter from the labour office

[stevenl]

Check with the embassy, consulates seem to be (forced to be) more strict than previously.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

he could but not anymore, that is why they ask for the letter from the labour office

A 'Business Visa' is still available, but it seems the Embassy only issue a Single Entry.

[FritsSikkink]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

A 'Business Visa' is still available, but it seems the Embassy only issue a Single Entry.

i am not saying he can't get a business visa but as he works here to he also needs a work permit. attending a conference is not an issue but "visiting" clients is regarded as work

[tonray]

A suggestion might be to contact an industry trade association here in Thailand and see how this is handled. I mean he cannot be the only guy who travels into Thailand to promote international trade with foreign companies and Thai businesses. 

[ubonjoe]

If you cannot get the multiple entry non-b visa the APEC travel card might be the next best choice. It allows unlimited 90 day entries. Not sure about you qualifying for it as a UK citizen but since you are working for a Australian company you might qualify for it. info here: http://www.apec.org/about-us/about-apec/business-resources/apec-business-travel-card.aspx

I think the info about needing a work permit on the embassy website might be an error. The Sydney consulate website does show it.  http://thaiconsulatesydney.org/Home/visa

 

[bud2]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

the APEC travel card might be the next best choice. It allows unlimited 90 day entries. Not sure about you qualifying for it as a UK citizen

I did look into getting the APEC Business Travel Card, which seems perfect, but I don’t qualify as I am a UK citizen, even if I work for an Australian company. From their FAQ: “General eligibility criteria include: are citizens of the participating APEC economies”

 

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the info about needing a work permit on the embassy website might be an error. The Sydney consulate website does show it.  http://thaiconsulatesydney.org/Home/visa

Thank you for this suggestion, but the Sydney consulate doesn’t list the requirement (for a Letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour) on this list, but does show it hidden away in their FAQ on:

 

http://thaiconsulatesydney.sparemart.com/Home/newsevent/2873659702583769

 

halfway done: “Q: As an Australian businessman, I have to go to Thailand very frequently on business. Is there any facility for frequent business travelers like me?
A: Yes, you can apply for a 1-year multiple-entries business visa which would allow you to travel to Thailand as frequently as you want while the visa remains valid. The period of stay is not exceeding 90 days for each visit. However, you must have a valid working permit in Thailand or a letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour of Thailand to support your visa application.”

 

My company’s distributor in Thailand has been contacting the Ministry of Labour, trying to talk to different people. They don’t know anything about the letter of approval and say that form WP3 is only for applying for a work permit (for a foreigner wishing to work in Thailand for a Thai company; not my case).

 

The Sydney consulate website is saying yes, you can apply for a 1-year multiple-entries business visa, but is listing a requirement that the Ministry of Labour doesn’t seem to know about. An Australian businessman working for an Australian company cannot get a work permit.

 

[bud2]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

i am not saying he can't get a business visa but as he works here to he also needs a work permit. attending a conference is not an issue but "visiting" clients is regarded as work

I don’t think visiting clients is regarded as work. The Canberra embassy website says this is the visa I need for what I am doing.

 

http://www.thaiconsulatesydney.org/Home/visa

 

type United Kingdom and click Business visa

 

"For business people who wish to visit Thailand for business purposes, for example, to attend a conference or training session, to conduct business with a Thailand-based organisation, to conduct business negotiations or for an exploratory business visit, you may apply for a Non-immigrant "B" visa before entering Thailand. The Non–immigrant “B” visa has 2 categories:

    Single entry visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand and is valid for 3 months.

    Multiple entries visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand on each visit and is valid for multiple entries within 12 months."

 

[bud2]

9 hours ago, elviajero said:

A 'Business Visa' is still available, but it seems the Embassy only issue a Single Entry.

The websites of the Canberra embassy and Sydney consulate state that they can issue a non-immigrant B visa multiple-entry visa:

http://www.thaiconsulatesydney.org/Home/visa

 

type United Kingdom and click Business visa

 

For business people who wish to visit Thailand for business purposes, for example, to attend a conference or training session, to conduct business with a Thailand-based organisation, to conduct business negotiations or for an exploratory business visit, you may apply for a Non-immigrant "B" visa before entering Thailand. The Non–immigrant “B” visa has 2 categories:

    Single entry visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand and is valid for 3 months.

    Multiple entries visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand on each visit and is valid for multiple entries within 12 months.

 

[bud2]

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

Check with the embassy, consulates seem to be (forced to be) more strict than previously.

Both Canberra embassy (in its list of requirements) and Sydney consulate (in its FAQ) are listing the Letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour requirement on their website.

 

I emailed the Canberra embassy to ask. They told me “The Embassy is only authorised to issue a Non-Immigrant visa with multiple entries to those who have a Thai Work Permit or letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour in Thailand.” And also “Your company's business associate in Thailand may lodge the application to the Office of Foreign Workers Administration. We will issue the Non-Immigrant multiple entry visa once we receive that letter from them.”

 

Royal Thai Consulate General Melbourne at http://www.thaiconsulatemelbourne.com  state:
“As of Monday 15 August, The Royal Thai Consulate General Melbourne will no longer issue Non-immigrant Multiple Entry Visas. All Non-immigrant Multiple Entry Visas will now be issued by the Royal Thai Embassy in Canberra.”

 

 

[bud2]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

Have you already applied or are you going by whats written on the website?

I am now preparing to apply for a new visa. For the past two years, I have had Non-immigrant B multiple-entry visa issued by consulates in Brisbane and Melbourne. Our distributor in Thailand provided their corporate documents for the visa application, but this year, they have a new requirement where asking for this letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour.

 

 

[bud2]

16 hours ago, JackThompson said:

And you will get hounded at the immigration checkpoint if you enter on a multi the 2nd or later entry without a work-permit, these days

I’ve been coming in and out of both Bangkok airports on this visa for the past two years and have never been asked anything, never been hounded. Maybe I’ve been lucky. There shouldn’t be a reason to be hounded as I’m doing business for a foreign company, I’m not working for a Thai company. There must be thousands of people doing this.

 

[FritsSikkink]

1 hour ago, bud2 said:

I don’t think visiting clients is regarded as work. The Canberra embassy website says this is the visa I need for what I am doing.

 

http://www.thaiconsulatesydney.org/Home/visa

 

type United Kingdom and click Business visa

 

"For business people who wish to visit Thailand for business purposes, for example, to attend a conference or training session, to conduct business with a Thailand-based organisation, to conduct business negotiations or for an exploratory business visit, you may apply for a Non-immigrant "B" visa before entering Thailand. The Non–immigrant “B” visa has 2 categories:

    Single entry visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand and is valid for 3 months.

    Multiple entries visa will allow you to stay up to 90 days in Thailand on each visit and is valid for multiple entries within 12 months."

 

Visa and work permit are 2 different things, you need both

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, bud2 said:

I’ve been coming in and out of both Bangkok airports on this visa for the past two years and have never been asked anything, never been hounded. Maybe I’ve been lucky. There shouldn’t be a reason to be hounded as I’m doing business for a foreign company, I’m not working for a Thai company. There must be thousands of people doing this.

 

Thanks for your feedback.  We do not have a lot of reports on people doing this.  I was referring to reports like ...

 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Thanks for your feedback.  We do not have a lot of reports on people doing this.  I was referring to reports like ...

 

Most people that have a problem are those that are doing border hops for a new entry. At airports it is not normally a problem.

[bud2]

4 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Visa and work permit are 2 different things, you need both

I cannot get a work permit. I work for an Australian company, not a Thai company.

 

[bud2]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Thanks for your feedback.  We do not have a lot of reports on people doing this.  I was referring to reports like ...

Thank you for referring to this post, it has some interesting and useful responses.

 

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

i am not saying he can't get a business visa but as he works here to he also needs a work permit. attending a conference is not an issue but "visiting" clients is regarded as work

You said "conducting business in Thailand is seen by the labour office as working," which is not true. And he can get a 'Business Visa' for conducting business without a work permit, but it seems it's limited to a single entry.

 

The OP works for a foreign company and whenever he is representing his company in Thailand he is, by any definition on the planet, working. However, Thai authorities allow foreign employees to work in Thailand without a work permit as long as the work is limited to 'conducting business'. Visiting clients would undoubtedly fall within 'conducting business'.

 

I doubt they issue many of these visas and IMO the Thai Embassy in Australia are misinterpreting and getting their wires crossed between the MFA requirements for 'conducting business' and 'working'. A Non 'B' visa for 'conducting business' does not need a work permit.

 

See the Thai Embassies in the UK and USA as they make a clear distinction between the requirements for a Non 'B' for 'Business' and 'Work'

http://thaiembdc.org/consular-services/non-immigrant-visas/non-immigrant-visa-category-b/

http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/50

 

 

[elviajero]

On 3,October, 2016 at 10:54 AM, JackThompson said:

And you will get hounded at the immigration checkpoint if you enter on a multi the 2nd or later entry without a work-permit, these days.

That only applies to people living here using a Non 'B' that aren't working. Someone living abroad that frequently visits for business shouldn't ever have a problem.

 

In the past it was possible to get a 1 year Multiple Entry Non 'B' issued on the basis of looking for work. Thats' been stopped but some people still get Non 'B' visas with the help of the 'friends' that have no intention of working, and that's probably the reason IO's occasionally get suspicious of someone doing border hops with a ME Non 'B'. 

[oldsalt]

For years I applied for a multiple entry non immigrant B visa at the Thai consulate in Melbourne and always received it, without having the required letter or note from the Department of Labour showing I was applying for a work permit. It always struck me as a flaw in the system as once I then got to Thailand, there was in fact no need to apply for the work permit, a risk I never took.  It seems they have now taken steps to cover this loophole by moving the issuance of the B visa to Canberra and enforcing the proof of intention to apply for a work permit.  Just additional steps to tighten up the requirements for living and working in the Land of Smiles.

[blackcab]

On 03/10/2016 at 2:50 PM, FritsSikkink said:

your conducting business in Thailand is seen by the labour office as working, so you need a work permit too.

 

This is incorrect. The activities the OP stated he will be doing are exempt from requiring a work permit.

 

Based on the opinion of the Council of State, the DOE issued a Notification in March 2015, specifying the following activities not considered as ‘work’ under the Act:
1. Attendance at meetings, discussions or seminars.
2. Attendance at exhibitions or trade exhibitions.
3. Visits to observe businesses or to meet for business dialogues.
4. Attendance at special lectures and academic lectures.
5. Attendance at technical training and seminars.
6. Purchasing of goods in trade exhibitions.
7. Attendance at board of directors meetings of one’s company.

[BlindMagician]

Your employer should sort it out.

[marinediscoking]

 

I have just noticed the change in the USA with this also as I have had several before without having to apply for a WP3. Seems they now deem anyone in thailand for more than 2 weeks as working. So any share holder, merchandise buyer, potential investor etc fall into this category. Below is the new requirement.  

Non Immigrant category “B”

Purpose of Visit:

Applicants who wish to conduct business in Thailand. (Business) $200 multiple entry $80 single entry

9. Stay over 15 days, letter of approval from the Ministry of Labor. To obtain this letter, the company  in Thailand is required to submit Form WP3 at the Office of Foreign Workers Administration, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labor Tel. 02-245-2745, or at the Provincial Employment Office in his or her respective province. More information is available at Department of Employment or www.doe.go.th

 

If you are going to be applying for a single non-b for the purpose of getting a WP there are different instructions/requirements with this visa

Applicants who work in Thailand. (Working) $80

 

 

[Mattd]

OP, not sure if this is of any help, but the Thai Embassy in Singapore will, according to their website, only issue the One Year ME Non Imm B visa for exactly your purposes.

Thai Embassy Singapore Non B Requirements

Of course, no guaranteeing it is up to date, so would be worth contacting them first.

 

Just noticed they do need the documents of current employer in Singapore, so this might not fly, would still contact and ask though.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Mattd
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