Swede denies sexual assault charges

[amykat]

TPI,  I don't know what you are talking about.  First of all, this Swedish man is not married to the 13 year girl he met in Koh Samui.  Next, I don't know what your story about stopping some guy with two 8 year olds in Cambodia has to do with what I said. Good for you.  He went somewhere else later though.  And as far your own marriage to a young lady, well that was 48 years ago, and you did marry her, you didn't buy her in a bar for a night, and you made a nice family it seems. On the face of it, that appears to have been legal at the time if you had permission of her family and got married.  Lastly, I am not one of these people confusing the issue with definitions of what is or isn't a pedophile, and don't think it is important to this discussion.

[Tiffer]

8 hours ago, BB1955 said:

Usa is the same , your butt gets fried when u come back stateside . Rightfully so , even if what you do abroad is legal in that country , 

 

Really? I don't quite understand that.

Are you saying that American's under the age of 21 should all be prosecuted for drinking alcohol in countries where they are legally entitled to consume alcohol and that anyone returning from Amsterdam should be tested for drugs?

[hotchilli]

10 hours ago, robertthebruce said:

Terrible in all instances......from the Mother to the Swede....

 

Poor girl at 13 years old, and also got pregnant, wonder where the child is now...

 

sad case.....

The baby when it's born will be sent back home to be raised by the grandparents, so mother & child can remain in Samui bringing in the income !!

An all too familiar story..

[trogers]

6 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

The baby when it's born will be sent back home to be raised by the grandparents, so mother & child can remain in Samui bringing in the income !!

An all too familiar story..

 

You forgot the 2nd part of the story.

 

Mother, child and baby get adopted and supported by some big hearted farang...a couple of years later...who would then build grandma a farang house upcountry...

[cyberfarang]

. She also told that she shared a room with him when they travelled together, but that she did not feel anything for him and only saw him as a customer.

 

Only just started into her teens and already a well seasoned sex worker. Very sad I think.

[mrfaroukh]

At least she tell the truth and he may not be convicted for the crime he didn't do. And this is a good example for the rest of us not to believe whatever they tell you.

[GOLDBUGGY]

I find it difficult to believe that a 13 year old girl could pass as a 18 year old woman, but who knows if the reporter got the right age and she actually wasn't 16 years old at the time. What I do know is that none of us saw what she looked like then, so have no idea if she looked 18 years old or not. 

 

What we also know is she admitted she lied about her age and that she worked in a Bar which she would be required to be older (18) to do that. She was also able to spend a lot of nights in different hotels in Thailand, where many I stayed at requested the ID of my guest as well. 

 

So my main question is, how was a 13 year old girl able to fool the Accuse, the Bar Owner, and Hotel Front Desk in several hotels that she was older and 18 years old? Did all these people turn a blind eye to her being underage and just ignore it? Or did she have Fake ID and actually looked older? So if you met her in a Bar, and even if you questioned her age but she produced her ID, which she also did to get into the hotel room with you, are you going to question her age further? I doubt most guys on a drinking and carousing holiday would. 

 

Perhaps he should have, and left her alone if he had doubts, but in my view he is not the only one here who is guilty of taking advantage of this girl. What about her mother who brought her their in the first place and to get her involved in the business? Or the Bar Owner who employed her to work their as a Bar Girl and charging Bar Fines for her to go with a customer? 

 

Since he met her in 2008 at a Bar, when she was only 13 years old, you can be sure he was not the only man she slept with while underage. By my rough calculation she would have slept with hundreds of different men during this time. It just seems that the accused was the only one who got caught and being punished for this now. 

 

I am not defending the Accused and having pornographic pictures of underage girls is another story. I am just saying that in this case his circumstances seems different then the average pervert type ones. He would not be the first one to fall into love with a Bar Girl in a week, while she just viewed him as a paying customer. I saw one a day when I was living in Pattaya. 

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, Tiffer said:

 

Really? I don't quite understand that.

Are you saying that American's under the age of 21 should all be prosecuted for drinking alcohol in countries where they are legally entitled to consume alcohol and that anyone returning from Amsterdam should be tested for drugs?

 

Really? No... truly... really?

 

you don't understand that one of the most universally agreed to United Nations convention articles,  obliges its signatories to persecute  child abusers by the home country of the abuser?

 

whereas, by contrast, there is no mandate by any international body requiring the persecution of underage drinkers or cross border gamblers, etc

 

its really quite simple... so let me rephrase it so you can understand.... even if repeating myself

 

the entire world, (excluding two only countries), has agreed to persecute perpetrators of child abuse, where ever it may occur..... whereas no countries have agreed to persecute cross border underage drinkers, or drug takers etc.... this is done independently, and domestically, by countries that have those laws, as part of their own domestic law... without any international agreement supporting this

 

see the attachment at my post 81 above, in support of this simplified explanation, if you are still struggling with basic comprehension, as (to simplify even further) we are discussing crimes that the entire world condemns (child abuse) verses crimes that the entire world does not agree to condemn (underage drinking or gambling etc)

 

hopefully this helps, even if my previous didn't

 

That said... and hopefully this doesn't confuse as it's a personal aside... each case should still rest on individual circumstances... for example, with his great fiery balls, jerry lee Lewis run afoul of underage sex laws by marrying the then 13 year old Myra brown, (his third of seven wives) when he was 22.... the marriage lasted some thirteen years or so.

 

child sex abuse by a pedophile (Lewis)... or not? 

 

Cases do need prosecuting on individual merit... but they do still need reviewing, to ensure the safety of children, even if they don't entail abuse (sometimes it's about keeping the bar stools honest)

 

capiche?

 

 

[farcanell]

54 minutes ago, mrfaroukh said:

At least she tell the truth and he may not be convicted for the crime he didn't do. And this is a good example for the rest of us not to believe whatever they tell you.

 

Unfortunately ignorance is usually not an excuse... although that may be ignorance of the law vs ignorance of the fact that the girl was under aged, as the girl admitted wantingly deceiving the man

 

but... buyer beware... right? And his due diligence in this matter was rather lacking (as in... show me your ID please.)

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

"Further more, I don't understand why a Swedish person is prosecuted in Norway for something he did in Thailand...."

Could it be because he lives in Oslo?  

 

 

 

It is because if someone has sex with a Minor, most Western Countries consider this a "Crime Against Humanity". This goes along the same lines of finding a Nazi War Criminal in your country, arresting him for crimes he committed in Germany or Poland Death Camps, and either put him on trial in your country or extradite him to another. 

 

What I don't understand is how can they prosecute him when the star witness against him is not even their to lay these charges.To be able to read out her statement in court and his Lawyer not having a chance to cross examine this at all.

 

If I was the judge and she can't even be their via Video Conference, so the Defendant doesn't even have a chance to defend himself, I would throw her testimony in the garbage bin. DNA Evidence by itself, is not enough evidence for a conviction in most courts.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

10 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 

Pedophiles are attracted by pre-pubescent children, so your contention that this man was a "possible pedophile" is unjustified. The age of consent in Thailand is - for most purposes - 18, but 21 for a prostitute.

No! Not 21 to be a Prostitute! Prostitution is illegal in Thailand so it has no age limit. 

 

She needs to be 18 years old to work in a Bar and not be considered a Minor. She needs to be 21 years old to be able to drink alcohol. This is where the age difference comes into play.

 

So you can legally bring an 18 Year Old Bar Girl to your hotel room, if she agrees to go with you, but you just can't give her alcohol to drink or buy her an alcoholic drink. Go Figure? 

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Both the Swedish man and the girl's mother are guilty. There is no way this man could not have figured out this girl was underage and indeed he was having sex with an underage prostitute which carries added penalties under Thai law.  The mother should be jailed for child abuse which would send a frm message that Thailand does not support the 'selling' of children or child trafficking.

And what of the Bar Owner who got her to work in his Bar illegally, and who collected a Bar Fine for her when she decided to go with a paying customer? Shouldn't the Bar Owner be held accountable and check her ID before he hires her? 

 

But if she had Fake ID to say she was 21 years old, would that make a difference? Not for the mother obviously as she would know her true age, but what of with the Accused and the Bar Owner? 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

If, as the article says, she was working in a bar it seems logical she must have had a fake ID.  That would account for the hotels too.

Physically, I doubt you could tell as most Thai women are relatively flat chested and pretty hairless.

[JayBeeee]

"Swede denies sexual assault charges "

...

claims he was framed by a turnip and two carrots!

[Bangkok Barry]

15 hours ago, seahorse said:

Sad to see people so desperate for money that they feel they must give their own child to be abused like this and a guy who is so desperate for "love" that he is apparently blind to the fact that his "bride" is so young and sees him only as a john.

 

Naturally, there was no Thai father around to help provide that support. We are told constantly how close Thai families are, yet there are a huge number of women forced to bring up their kid(s) alone after the no-good father walked out or was thrown out. Close families? I don't think so.

[Naam]

7 hours ago, TPI said:

I don't really understand the motives of the "hang 'em high" brigade. A young man comes to Thailand sees a young woman (who doesn't look her age) (what does he know?) sees her a few times and finds out she's new to the bar scene; " I really like you honey, would you like to travel around with me for a while?" Of course she says yes, it's her job! After traveling around for a few weeks he is really enamored so he pops the question! Of course she says yes! Eight years and one child later he makes the mistake of taking them all to Norway, a typical (no doubt female) immigration officer does some quick mental arithmetic and cries "shock horror this man must be a pedo????"

 

Now you can ask "why is this person defending this person of dubious character" ? 48 years ago I met and married a Chinese woman in very similar circumstances, after 3 children, 11 grand children and 5 great grand children if I was to go through Norwegian Immigration and some nit picking cretin decided to do the numbers then I too could be charged as a pedophile. even though nothing was further from the truth!

 

People! You need to understand that not so many years ago a woman unmarried at 18 was considered unmarryable, girls were married at puberty 13-15 years old, this was the case in early America! "Mother Grundies" get off your soap boxes and join the real world!

Edited October 5, 2016 by Naam

[Rc2702]

15 hours ago, halloween said:

You have to wonder how a 26yo Swede with his 13yo g/f book into hotels as they travel around Thailand without anybody questioning the circumstances. 

When 70 year old man checks in with 20 year old girl.

 

What's the difference? 

 

To a thai perhaps they are closer in age so it goooood!!!

 

20 year old girl in thailand like 14 year old anyway.

[starky]

16 hours ago, arrowsdawdle said:

Pit bulls and Thai wives...."but mine's different."

Hey! Easy on the pitties

[Kwasaki]

No sympathy no excuses for someone at 34 years of age. 

[balo]

12 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

Have you seen some 13 year olds Lately Very well developed and look like they are in the late teens or 20s

 

BS! 

[amykat]

So, you say the words "Thailand" to people in the Western World and the first thoughts that flash through their minds are :

Prostitution/Child Sex

 

We have a bunch of sophisticated? travelers here and "old Asian hands" yes or no?  I think reasonable people could agree on a few facts.

 

Thai women/girls look younger to us.  Next, Asians prize youth in the sex trade and are not ashamed of it.  So WHY would they take a perfect 13 year old and TRY to make her look 20 years old?  Why would they "dress her" older as many of you say?  Would they be putting her in an old drab school teacher's outfit?  Is that what you look for in bar? Or do many bars dress girls as school girls ..exactly what she already is???  Or they are nearly naked.

 

Next, back to my point above, it is like none of you sophisticated old Asian hands, have ever heard of corruption and want to rely on the fact that she was working in a bar which means that "should have been 18" and that she was checked into hotels "and should have been 18". Do I need to spell this out or can you get this on your own?

 

Lastly, to those few of you who want to feel sorry for the man because he clams he "loved her".  I don't think this particular case needs to be bogged down in deciding if this man is a pedophile or not, but I think it can be argued that he is based on the fact that she probably looked like she was 10, not 13, and based on his child porn, etc.  However, for a short time in my past life, I worked with the Dept of Corrections with pedophiles, who were getting out on parole, and let me tell you their number one defense and belief that what they do is correct and loving ...is that they deeply LOVE their victims. 

 

 

 

[farcanell]

9 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

No sympathy no excuses for someone at 34 years of age. 

 

Mmmm.... reading and comprehension issues abound... he was not a 34 year old at the time

 

the peadophile is now 34, but he met the girl when he was 26 (2008), and is only now being charged ( at age 34)

 

why do i say peadophile?

 

because he was found in possession of child pornography (damning in my book).... not because of the underage Thai prostitute, who's age he was deceived about (this has been admitted too) by bar staff, girl and most worryingly, the authority figure in this sad saga, the mother.... and who's age could well have been disguised through makeup and clothing (as has been seen many times, in many countries, where charges have been dismissed because of this ruse)

 

regardless of the above, the 26 year old man was all kinds of messed up... in earlier years, during earlier trips to Thailand, I have personally been extremely paranoid about crossing two very distinct lines

 

1/ LBs, so.... check low... by any means nessesary, including a physical examination, if required (this simple method of ascertaining the truth... or near enough as matters, may cost a hundred baht... but better than later discovering frank, awaiting his turn)

 

2/ under aged partners... check ID, in doubt.... at least you can make the claim later... but then, if you need that reassurance, perhaps you need to consider your latent pedo issues anyway..... my favorite Was always to accuse them of being too young, thereby putting the onus on the girl to prove the opposite (out come family pics etc etc)

 

its not hard folks... and... in doubt... just say no... it's not as though there is a lack of choice.

 

and.... maybe it's my reading comprehension that's lacking, but the pair are not married, and there is nothing to suggest an ongoing relationship past the tryst in 2008.... the pedo simply described it as being LIKE a honeymoon, and was later, in 2012, dobbed in by a vindictive ex, who knew about the past relationship.

[Andrew65]

15 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

No! Not 21 to be a Prostitute! Prostitution is illegal in Thailand so it has no age limit. 

 

She needs to be 18 years old to work in a Bar and not be considered a Minor. She needs to be 21 years old to be able to drink alcohol. This is where the age difference comes into play.

 

So you can legally bring an 18 Year Old Bar Girl to your hotel room, if she agrees to go with you, but you just can't give her alcohol to drink or buy her an alcoholic drink. Go Figure? 

Some of the  bars in Soi Cowboy used to have signs saying ".......no one under 20....."

[HomeinThailand]

He said he loves her.  So it's okay.  Bull.  There should be a quick way to deal with guys like this. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

Some of the  bars in Soi Cowboy used to have signs saying ".......no one under 20....."

Yes! I know it sounds a bit confusing. The Legal Age for drinking alcohol in Thailand is 20 years old and not 21. Sorry for the confusion but it was you who brought up the age 21, when it should have been 20. 

 

So the sign would be correct. In many countries you would not be allowed to serve alcohol either, unless you were of Legal Age to drink it. But this is not the case in Thailand. In Thailand you can work in a Bar at age 18, but you are not allowed to go there on a day off for example and sit around and drink alcohol. You still need to be 20 years old to do that. 

 

I think this confusion started around 2008, when Thailand changed their drinking laws. Up until then the legal age for drinking alcohol was 18 years old. In 2008 they changed their Liquor Laws and bumped the drinking age up to 20 years old. But they did not change their Labor Laws at the same time, requiring people working in Bars to also be 20 years old. So the old Labor Laws stayed in force and is still 18 years old. 

 

In 2008 they also did not change the age of sexual consent in Thailand which was 18 years old. So technically, if you were 20 years of age or older, you could got to a Bar, chat up an 18 Year Old Waitress, buy her a Coke, take her with you on a date (so to speak) and if she agrees, spend a night with her in a hotel room. But what you can not do is supply her with alcohol. Just like I said before.     

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 hours ago, amykat said:

So, you say the words "Thailand" to people in the Western World and the first thoughts that flash through their minds are :

Prostitution/Child Sex

 

We have a bunch of sophisticated? travelers here and "old Asian hands" yes or no?  I think reasonable people could agree on a few facts.

 

Thai women/girls look younger to us.  Next, Asians prize youth in the sex trade and are not ashamed of it.  So WHY would they take a perfect 13 year old and TRY to make her look 20 years old?  Why would they "dress her" older as many of you say?  Would they be putting her in an old drab school teacher's outfit?  Is that what you look for in bar? Or do many bars dress girls as school girls ..exactly what she already is???  Or they are nearly naked.

 

Next, back to my point above, it is like none of you sophisticated old Asian hands, have ever heard of corruption and want to rely on the fact that she was working in a bar which means that "should have been 18" and that she was checked into hotels "and should have been 18". Do I need to spell this out or can you get this on your own?

 

Lastly, to those few of you who want to feel sorry for the man because he clams he "loved her".  I don't think this particular case needs to be bogged down in deciding if this man is a pedophile or not, but I think it can be argued that he is based on the fact that she probably looked like she was 10, not 13, and based on his child porn, etc.  However, for a short time in my past life, I worked with the Dept of Corrections with pedophiles, who were getting out on parole, and let me tell you their number one defense and belief that what they do is correct and loving ...is that they deeply LOVE their victims. 

 

 

 

I don't really think any people here feel sorry for him because he said he "Loved Her". I think "Foolish" is the word closer to everybody's minds. But for people who have lived in Thailand a long time, and especially in areas like Pattaya, they have seen this "Foolishness" plenty of times. So in a way it is understandable he is this way and just another one. Nobody feels sorry for him for having Illegal Pornography!

 

If there is any sympathy directed towards him at all, it is because this girl admitted to the court she lied about her age to him. She may have produced a Fake ID t prove her case. Her working in a Bar, where she is required to be at least 18 years old, and her going to several different hotels with him in Thailand, where most places require her ID, adds credence to his story that he did not realize her true age.

 

We are told by this media report that the girl was 13 years old at the time, and many, including me, would say that a 13 year old girl cannot pass as a 18 year old woman. Although with proper dress and makeup there is always exception to these rules.

 

But more likely this wasn't her true age. The Reporter probably dropped a couple years off of that to hide her identity, as she would have been a minor then. Also to sensationalize the story and make it sound more interesting, which I think they do here a lot. If she was 16 ears old and had Fake ID, then it could be believable that he really didn't know she was that young. 

 

What did Mark Twain say about reading the Daily Newspapers and about Reporters? " If you don't read your Newspaper each day you become "Uninformed". If you do read it each day then you become "Misinformed".        

[ClutchClark]

5 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I don't really think any people here feel sorry for him because he said he "Loved Her". I think "Foolish" is the word closer to everybody's minds. But for people who have lived in Thailand a long time, and especially in areas like Pattaya, they have seen this "Foolishness" plenty of times. So in a way it is understandable he is this way and just another one. Nobody feels sorry for him for having Illegal Pornography!

 

If there is any sympathy directed towards him at all, it is because this girl admitted to the court she lied about her age to him. She may have produced a Fake ID t prove her case. Her working in a Bar, where she is required to be at least 18 years old, and her going to several different hotels with him in Thailand, where most places require her ID, adds credence to his story that he did not realize her true age.

 

We are told by this media report that the girl was 13 years old at the time, and many, including me, would say that a 13 year old girl cannot pass as a 18 year old woman. Although with proper dress and makeup there is always exception to these rules.

 

But more likely this wasn't her true age. The Reporter probably dropped a couple years off of that to hide her identity, as she would have been a minor then. Also to sensationalize the story and make it sound more interesting, which I think they do here a lot. If she was 16 ears old and had Fake ID, then it could be believable that he really didn't know she was that young. 

 

What did Mark Twain say about reading the Daily Newspapers and about Reporters? " If you don't read your Newspaper each day you become "Uninformed". If you do read it each day then you become "Misinformed".        

 

I think its important to remember this Swede is being questioned 8 years after the fact. He is a mature adult and must surely be capable of looking back at that time and knowing it was not love. 

 

This is simply a defense offered investigators in an effort to portray himself as something other than a pedo and in hopes of the court offering leniency. 

 

It would be easier for us to believe he was a victim of innocence IF his computer had not been discovered to contain underage pornography. The evidence as presented in the article makes it pretty clear he has a thing for the underage.

 

Still interested in how theis all came to light 8 years later? Did you mention a recent "ex" dropped the dime on him? Speculation or fact? Thats about the only way authorities might have been tipped off unless he was caught up for his kiddy porn and further investigation somehow revealed this Thailand incident of 8 years previous ?

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been removed. 

[DiscoDan]

If she was 15 or 16 and he believes she was legal age you could give him the. Benefit of the doubt, but 13 no chance the guys a nonce

[GOLDBUGGY]

20 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

When 70 year old man checks in with 20 year old girl.

 

What's the difference? 

 

To a thai perhaps they are closer in age so it goooood!!!

 

20 year old girl in thailand like 14 year old anyway.

So are you an Expert in 20 Year Old Thai Women, or an Expert in 14 Year Old Girls in your Home Country?

 

To be honest I never saw too many men 70 Years Old with 20 Year Old Women in Thailand. Usually with somebody in there Mid 30's, or 40's or 50's. Usually 20 Year Old go with someone in there 40's or younger. 

 

But no doubt "Sex Sells"! It always has! It always will! Also that Prostitution can be found in just about any other country of the world. So why just pick on Thailand for Winter and Spring Relationships?

 

Why not go to the United States and in the case of "Anna Nicole Smith" who was a real beauty and could get most any man. She was a 23 Year Old Stripper when she started dating and sleeping with an 86 Year Old Man. She married him 3 years later when she was 26 and he was 89 Years Old.  That is a 53 Years Age Difference and even greater than your exaggerated figure of 50 Years. 

 

You can go down an endless list of famous and wealthy men marrying some young beautiful wife 20 or 30 years his junior. Some even greater as in Anna Nicole. It is no secret this goes on and has being going on for as long as I can remember. So I wonder sometimes why people consider this normal but yet Thailand gets picked on because of this. A lot of women like being with a man who is successful and with money, and thus don't care about age or looks so much. That is not a secret anywhere in the world either.