Or… has it always been this way?

 

I have been living and working in Thailand for nearly 6 years now and have been here on several yearly visits since 1990.

 

Have always loved Thailand for its weather, people and great places to visit and I still enjoy living here. So have no plans on moving anywhere else. (Please dont come with the "Just leave if you are not super happy" comment). 

 

However, I also (since living and working here) personally believe that especially the views on “Farangs” have changed quite a lot during the past years and has become much more hostile. Not that I feel it so much in my everyday life, but I have experienced e.g. things related to my work, that I find disturbing and discriminating towards foreigners living and working here. I know foreign companies that have been raided, blackmailed, threatened and in other ways been harassed. Some of them have due of this left the country and/or moved their business activities elsewhere to what they call a more “foreign-investment friendly environments”. 

 

I do not know if it is just me and because I have actually have only lived and worked here for 6 years. The question is therefore (and mainly to people who have lived/worked here for longer than me). Is Thailand really becoming more and more agressive towards foreigners?…. or is it simply just imagination and things have more or less always been like this?

 

Was it the same 10-15 years ago? and have e.g. these constant “crack-down” ideas on foreigners always existed in one way or the other? Has it always been difficult for foreigners to live, work and do business here? And has the attitude towards those foreigners always been the same? Or are we experiencing a significant change in how foreigners are looked upon, which might make it difficult for us living/working here, in the years to come?

 

 

Your guess is as good as mine, but yeah the writing seems to be on the wall in BIG LETTERS, at least as far as non-Asean and non-Chinese foreigners are concerned.

Not sure it's changed.  Tesco Lotus entered Thailand in 1997 - almost immediately there were proposals for zoning to protect Thai businesses and a competition commission investigation into supplier relationships.  Then a hand grenade attack on one store and an anti-tank rocket shot at another.

 

The banking sector in Thailand is largely local and imported cars, bikes etc are taxed heavily.  The current issues about Chinese tour businesses and even the focus on foreign criminals is further evidence.

 

I think there's always been a drive to protect 'Thai' businesses.  It's not free trade as we know it ..... but sometimes I wish my home country was a bit less 'free'. 

Thais are the master race. its obvious to anyone once theyve switched off their brains which is why its so prevalent in the populace, hilarious I find

8 minutes ago, Familyonthemove said:

Not sure it's changed.  Tesco Lotus entered Thailand in 1997 - almost immediately there were proposals for zoning to protect Thai businesses and a competition commission investigation into supplier relationships.  Then a hand grenade attack on one store and an anti-tank rocket shot at another.

 

The banking sector in Thailand is largely local and imported cars, bikes etc are taxed heavily.  The current issues about Chinese tour businesses and even the focus on foreign criminals is further evidence.

 

I think there's always been a drive to protect 'Thai' businesses.  It's not free trade as we know it ..... but sometimes I wish my home country was a bit less 'free'. 

They are so uncompetitive  its the reason they have to be protected leaving us with a  highly  inferior service and products.

Yes its changing,not sure if the general population feel any different to Farangs,

but the Thai Government seems to be very Xenophobic ,when I first came here

90 day reporting was a law,but never enforced,now it seems every week there's

a change,and not for the better ,how many times do they need to know where we

live,yearly extension, 90 days report,the new Immigration form,the form the Police

want you to fill in,TM28,TM30, don't know what they will come up with next, 

"Good guys in ,Bad guys out",but it seems like we are all been treated like potential

criminals.

regards worgeordie

Considering the current state of the economy, I have hard times understanding the logic in "hunting" the few Farangs here. Most foreigners I know who work here, have paid more tax in a few years (income and profit tax), than most Thais would do in a life time. But of course the bad economy gives a good reason to find somebody easy to "blame".

 

However, I still have the feeling that we in 5-10 years time, will see a different attitude towards foreigners of any kind, who brings money here. But first I guess the ship has to go to the bottom, before someone things of smart ways to get it back up. 

 

Right now there seems to be little common sense in play.

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by khunpa

15 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Yes its changing,not sure if the general population feel any different to Farangs,

but the Thai Government seems to be very Xenophobic ,when I first came here

90 day reporting was a law,but never enforced,now it seems every week there's

a change,and not for the better ,how many times do they need to know where we

live,yearly extension, 90 days report,the new Immigration form,the form the Police

want you to fill in,TM28,TM30, don't know what they will come up with next, 

"Good guys in ,Bad guys out",but it seems like we are all been treated like potential

criminals.

regards worgeordie

 

I agree that the general population properly feels very much the same. At least towards Farangs. With other foreigners the issue might be different.

 

However, I worry if this might change due to the signals from above. After all, Thais seem pretty easy to convince to just follow the flow. 

 

One thing I do not understand, is that a country being so exposed to tourists for so many years, still can be so afraid of the outside world.

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by khunpa

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Your guess is as good as mine, but yeah the writing seems to be on the wall in BIG LETTERS, at least as far as non-Asean and non-Chinese foreigners are concerned.

 

On your wall perhaps, not on those of others.

Thai's have always been protective of their ways and proud of their culture and they don't want it to change but I don't really feel / see that the Thai's view of foreigners have changed.

 

Thailand has developed a lot the last 25 years. Really. Thai's working professionally are better now and there is less to zero difference while there was more difference before. We got more respect in the lifts in the early 90's but that's more because there are too so many of us now... :)

 

Thaksin started using westerners as scape goats to get easy votes from the uneducated, don't think it stuck. 

 

Much is just natural change, it would be strange if this didn't change a bit when Thailand has developed so much

 

The current government is not anti-farang as such, Thai's think of them more as discipline freaks  

 

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by MikeyIdea

59 minutes ago, khunpa said:

One thing I do not understand, is that a country being so exposed to tourists for so many years, still can be so afraid of the outside world.

 

They are not afraid of the outside world at all

 

They are just proud of what they are and don't want it to change

I think the Thais are becoming more and more Chinese Orientated and wish to throw off any allegiances to the West or Russia.

China is the best big thing Thailand , oh wait it already.

 

I think the view has pretty much been constant. Only now putting action to sentiment.
Attending a party thrown by the local temple the the band were singing "Farang come Thailand short time, don't stay long time...farang go home." That was maybe 4/5 years ago & stuck.
But working or running a business should give the true feeling of the populace.

2 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

They are not afraid of the outside world at all

 

They are just proud of what they are and don't want it to change

as i said "hilarious"

2 hours ago, kannot said:

as i said "hilarious"

 

I certainly don't want them to change. Where would I go if they change to be like Europeans?  

 

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by MikeyIdea

I think its changing for the worst. I have been here for over 10 years and its only the last few months I have heard my friends saying farangs have a bad press now.. general feeling is that farangs are dangerous.. cutting people up and putting them in freezers, bikers attacking Thai

'children', farangs overstaying visa etc etc.

 

I never heard anyone talk about that stuff before.  Seems is always on the news now, negative stories and fearmongering about farangs.

 

And then I get some police criminal check form at my door last week.. and immigration are getting worse and worse in terms of many more forms and crazy waiting times here in Chiang Miai. 

 

I think they want the Chinese Tourists now to concentrate on... and the western farangs are seen as a distraction or thing of the past to be replaced by the more easily controlled Chinese, who don't get hang ups about morals or create or highlight any wrong doings complain when they are treated wrongly. 

 

 

 

Can only speak from a BKK and Pattaya point of view as a farang, and one who is not employed or in business in LoS so not as experienced as some others,  but I do feel like attitudes towards us have dropped slightly in a negative direction. Even for someone like me who presents myself in a decent manner and appearance I have felt slightly more unwelcome compared to a decade+ ago. I still love the place though.

 

*Warning for optimistic comment* I do think things will change as honestly I see the numbers of farang travelling to Thailand dropping for various reasons in the next few years and I think the game is over for most of the Chang wifebeater and beer belly crowd. We will become the exotic again and I will be there to cash in on that. :tf:

 

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by kevozman1

This may sound like utter nonsense but is it possible the Thai people have just had enough. I get the feeling from most of the Thais I know that they are very disillusioned and uncertain about their future. There is something looming on the horizon that will change Thailand irrevocably and they are terribly oppressed. They are not allowed to express their feelings towards government, the army the police and are now living in a state where they can be arrested for a Facebook post. So maybe it's not necessarily aimed at falangs per se but as they have no one else they can lash out or show their displeasure towards perhaps we are the easiest target. Or perhaps I'm full of shit and nothing here is ever gonna change.

To start with, twenty or thirty years ago, the westerner was looked at in awe (generally), and part of that was the scarcity of the species. We were thin on the ground, especially outside the city. What concerns me is the media coverage of the foreign criminals they are digging up. It seems a daily occurrence now to see something on Thai TV regarding foreigners committing crimes. This sticks in the Thai mind, and I fear it will have negative impact upon the long termers, specifically in terms of visas etc.

Things like the body in the freezer makes a lot of ordinary Thais wonder what it is that the farang across the road does.

What do you expect from an ultra right wing military government. They are not keen on foreigners because they hate criticism, and their jingoistic nationalism trickles down to the population.

 

The funny thing is how so many warped foreigners support the Junta, when they have such a disliking for foreigners. A bizarre case of Stockholm Syndrome.

12 hours ago, upside said:

Most look fat and bald sadly. They'd rather the early grave but make up for it wit copious amounts of arm pit sweat,  beer and bar stools. 

 

It's ok,  blame the ex wife back home , she started it. 

my what a charming comment

The Thais were "sold" the sparkly concept of 7/11's, posh moobahn living, nice cars, "bilingual" education etc. They are now discovering it is not affordable, desirable or sustainable. OK so maybe still desirable. Wages are lower when you consider cost of living and level of debt.

The govt will look for scapegoats.

You have a portion of the population that is easily swayed and the rest are just in a bad mood.

My impression is that the Thais generally don't have a lot to be happy about, it is not necessarily directed at foreigners.

28 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

 

 

The funny thing is how so many warped foreigners support the Junta, when they have such a disliking for foreigners. A bizarre case of Stockholm Syndrome.

 

   I do feel that the Military Junta has been good for Thailand , they have made much needed changes to the Country .

    Whilst the changes havent been particularly good for me personally , I can appreciate the positive effects the changes have had on Thailand .

i have noticed thailand becoming more anti foreigners over my 10 years here. i suspect it will get worse over the coming years as the economy degrades. many countries blame foreigners as things get worse. Venezuela is a good example, the president is blaming america for their decades of miss management.

I really don't know, but if you are talking about laws/rule enforcement, I would think that would be a reasoned response to an increase in people who are abusing the system that is in place. Tourist entries are easy and maybe now, more than ever before, people are over staying and that is not really part of the bargain. If they come down on people who are here illegally, is that wrong? 

 

I am here legally and comply w/all regulations - I never see a problem or resentment. 

Thai people want the 'american dream' or it's korean/singaporean counterpart. As stated above they have been sold the concept and are finding it difficult to attain. A movie some years ago discussed the concept. It was called 'Lada Land'. A Thai aspirant buys into Herbal Life, the ghosts of burmese maids haunt the street . . . take a look.

 

I still find that Thai people are generally respectful and gracious most of the time especially as we integrate more into Thai culture ourselves. By that, I mean, become used to Thai people and what upsets/makes them lose face etc and try to manage situations more effectively, if possible.

 

Recent discussions surrounding u.k immigration have focused on integration as a theme, or the lack of it. Of all the immigrants to the west in the last 60 years or so, most have integrated and just gotten on with their lives; careers, families etc and consider themselves british or american citizens. The muslim immigrants, on the other hand, have not.

 

They tend to keep apart, and hang on to their own belief system even when it clashes dramatically with everything westerners hold dear.

christian culture, brought to thailand by expats and western tourists, while having a few poorly fitting points with thai beliefs, generally fits okay? Islamic culture fits nowhere except the islamic states.

 

Why is this pertinent?

 

For the first time ever I saw two separate Thai shop assistants completely lose their cool with customers. I am on a 4 day visit to pattaya just now and last night on 2nd road an arab person and a hijab wearing wife were asking, or rather, telling the 7/11 girl to add credit to their phone. They kept telling her it was wrong, they 'want speak home cuntry' very rudely.

She flipped and shouted at them she 'don't know'!!!

 

In the McDonald along the road a small qeue waited to be served amidst 20 or 30 yabbering Pakistanis. Patience was wearing thin while two arabs explained again and again what they wanted, changing their minds several times. The servers were getting upset. Then another big group of arabs came in and instead of waiting their turn, walked straight to the front. A Thai fella was ahead of me and I watched and waited to see what happened when his turn came.

 

As the server looked up for the next customer the arabs stepped in front of the Thai fella . . . . . .

 

He extended his right arm and swept the arabs aside and stepped to the counter! They scowled a bit but accepted it.

That's pretty strong action for a Thai without completely loosing control.

 

I also noticed the 'hordes' of chinese who fill the beach road and disgorge from speedboats every 10 minutes or so. I stood and filmed them and they encircled me. They have had a bad press from Thai sources but in my opinion they are just noisy.

 

The arab and pakistani visitors on the other hand seem hostile and all of them stare way too much.

 

In essence, the welcome we receive has less to do with race and more to do with cultural acceptance, assimilation and integration. Behaviour.

 

More and more I think Thais will come to realise that westerners are generally respectful and appreciative of Thailand and while we may not need to adopt all of the cultural behaviours we see here (I'm never going to grovel or even wai) we at least attempt to understand Thai people somewhat. There may be some examples of farang crime but they are pretty rare outside of pattaya.

 

 

cant say I have seen it here, there is always the odd ones that act a bit arrogant towards farangs but most treat you as you treat them. Maybe a lot has to do with the attitude of the farang himself in some cases, I do think the immigration crap is a bit over the top but other than that nothing has changed much, most still take you for who you are and what you do.  Does anyone really think they associate what a few idiots do with all farangs,  that attitude would mean they would have to distrust nearly every thai that comes near them with all the rapes, child molesters and killings that thais do everyday,  maybe some people are just over reacting.

15 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

They are not afraid of the outside world at all

 

They are just proud of what they are and don't want it to change

Therein lies the problem. They don't like change and don't want change, so how will they ever progress?

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

 

   I do feel that the Military Junta has been good for Thailand , they have made much needed changes to the Country .

    Whilst the changes havent been particularly good for me personally , I can appreciate the positive effects the changes have had on Thailand .

Positive Changes? Do you mean things like mass surveillance, public lecturing of people the leader doesn't like at that particular point in time, 40 year jail sentences for crimes of nothing more than posting some comments on Facebook, proposed decriminalization of methamphemine, inconsistent sentencing of offenders based on society connections, the inability to find the people behind the ongoing bomb blasts, or the arrest of foreigners not guilty of any crime except that China requested Thailand because they don't like the message of criticism against China.

Oh yeah there's a lot of positive changes!

Edited October 7, 20169 yr by Time Traveller

Everywhere in the modern world has changed.

I have been coming here since 1985.

I think the most changes in the way Thai's think of the westerner was about 2005.

Mobile phones, cheaper computers......

The last 5 years though has really changed for me as I feel Thailand has taken a LEAP BACKWARDS IN THE GOVERNMENT SECTOR.

People now days are sitting behind their computers all the time.......dreaming of what could be.

 

But I still favor Thailand over most countries to do a short term/long term layover.