Is Thailands view on Foreigners really changing?

[Gecko123]

The government's publicizing of foreigners engaged in criminal activity and visa overstays has contributed to a mildly unwelcoming vibe. Not widespread by any means, but I do encounter it every once in a while. I remain hopeful that this emphasis on weeding out the "bad guys" is going to wane over time.

 

Facebook and i-phones has made people less "present" and outwardly social all over the world. Access to the internet has demystified foreigners for many Thais, and many are probably more blasé and less intrigued by us as they once were. Similarly, social websites and forums have made foreigners more aware of pitfalls they can fall into here, thus making taking advantage of foreigners a little more difficult. Some Thais who might be inclined to take advantage of foreigners, may have decided that it's not worth the effort.

 

But in my opinion, the biggest factor contributing to Thais being less friendly to foreigners stems from our own behavior. Many foreigners routinely ignore or are suspicious towards one another, and generally act in a very anti-social manner. This anti-social behavior (even when it is just directed at other foreigners) does not go unnoticed by Thais, and I fear many Thais have concluded that foreigners simply aren't very friendly or outgoing by nature, and just wish to be left alone.

 

I still believe, however, that anybody who makes any effort to be friendly, to learn the language, or talk to people in a respect manner will find that the majority of Thais are still very friendly, helpful, and kind-natured.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Gecko123

[khunpa]

I agree that the are "Bad Farangs" in Thailand, who have contributed a whole lot to a changed view on Farangs.

 

However, looking around me and in the area where I live I see many productive Farangs, who are contributing to the Thai-ecomony and society in many ways. They are far from just beer-drinking criminals just hanging around here. 

 

The problem I see is, that Thai-auhoritizes are having difficulties separating the good and the bad, when it comes to Farangs. They get an assignment to remove bad-farangs and automatically assume that all farangs are bad. Just like many Farangs views on Thai-women....... If they are Thai and women, then they are all hookers. Or all black people are drug-dealers. It is racism at its best and can be found everywhere.

 

So I guess we can not really blame them, but just hope that they one day realise that many Farangs here also provides value to the country. I know many will say that Farangs or other foreigners are not important for Thailand and they can do fine by themselves. Well, that is in my opinion simply not true. In 2015 foreign investments in Thailand went down 90%, because foreign companies in 2014 decided to leave. That as well as a fall in exports are some of the main reasons that Thailand economy is the worst in Asia right now.

 

There is simply no country in the world today, who can benefit from isolation or getting rid of all foreigners. Especially in a country like Thailand, where foreigners do not affect government spendings or support. As a foreigner here, you must be able to take care of yourself and they have made it very clear that you can not expect ownership of much here. So I think they are basically very well covered and should instead try ways to get foreigners to invest more in businesses and maybe even education here. 

 

Biggest problem for Thailand is in my opinion especially their inability to face facts and blame all other for any problems. This is what will hit them the most, because things just takes ages to change due to that. (actually it hardly ever changes). This is what worries me the most about living here. Things getting into the extreme, because of stupid decisions based on no-one wanting to really take responsibly for anything. Lots of statements and wows... mostly followed by no changes at all or extreme un-logical actions.

 

Edited October 11, 2016 by khunpa

[Mekong Thunder]

On 07/10/2016 at 9:47 AM, nemrut said:

No other country in the world makes it as easy to enter and stay to live as Thailand.  

 

In fact, farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai or non-white person would be in western countries.  

 

How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily?

I thought that you were serious there for a minute!

[eldragon]

I'm not positive about this, but it seems like the middle class is growing, and the economy as a whole is improved. So the perceived need for foreigners is lower.

[madmax6889]

On 06/10/2016 at 9:52 PM, kannot said:

Thais are the master race. its obvious to anyone once theyve switched off their brains which is why its so prevalent in the populace, hilarious I find

so true...

you know its all over asia.. japs even are as cracked as this..

these people live because we dont pursue  social darwinism.. fortunately for them i guess. maybe less fortunate for the development of the human race in  the long term.

[Mr Somtam]

On 7-10-2016 at 5:42 AM, Surasak said:

Therein lies the problem. They don't like change and don't want change, so how will they ever progress?

What is progress? Becoming more like Europeans and Americans, driving big cars, eating Mickey D, having TVs, tablets, smartphones?

Maybe it would be a lot better for Thailand to stick to its more traditional and sustainable values: Buddhism, doing things together in the village, harmony with nature, enjoying life, having fun vs. having stuff Etc. etc. Take a look at what the american dream has brought to this country: People piling debt upon debt just to buy that new iPhone, families going bankrupt because the father bought that shiny truck he really couldn't afford. Girls being sent to Pattaya so their families can drink beer and watch lakorn all day and show off their smartphones, tablets en KFC buckets. I COULD go on but I guess you get the idea.

Look at our home countries: we have everything but are we happy? Do we really enjoy all that stuff, running along with the others in the rat race? Why do we all want to come to Thailand? Because the place is completely different from our home country ofcourse! Some thing need approvement but please Thailand, do not change into a tropical version of Europe!

[Deepinthailand]

Everything changes daily sometimes is called progress but in some cases it hard to see what progress is. Nothing is set in stone but I don't belive it's any worse now for forigners here it's just a perception as immigration no doubt with orders from on high are enforcing rules which have been on the books for a long time and now being used or enforced. But people see these as new laws and a form of a witch hunt. I ŕead a lot of Forums about Thailand this one is better for information if you sieve out the dross what's posted. But without a doubt this one is the most Anti Thai anything forum out of all of them.

[tonray]

On 10/7/2016 at 0:32 PM, DSJPC said:

I understand and appreciate your viewpoints...if u live in a hellhole like Bangkok, Pattaya or Phuket u will meet people unfriendly to farangs...if u get outta the cities, u will find a whole different world out here!

That is absolutely true. In BKK (I live in an area not popular with foreigners) and many Thai vendors do not like to deal with me...I get the grunt and my change and then the inevitable chit chat about the 'farang' that I hear as I walk away. In Kohn Kaen, another city I have experience with, there is a much softer approach. While Thais in general do NOT want you in their neighborhoods, just try and walk down any small soi and the snarling dogs, the comments from the Thai men drinking on the side, and the stares you get from everyone else are a very unwelcoming sign. The most troubling is when faced with an aggressive dog where Thais are sitting right there, not one will say a word or raise a hand to help you, you are on your own. I can deal with that, we all want to keep what we are comfortable with and they do not want foreigners in their universe. But in many cities ,like Kohn Kaen there is a big difference in how they react to you in the common areas away from their domain, they are friendly and will actually help you. In BKK, there is the pretend patronizing in the farang tourist areas and then there is my experience in areas such as the Wongwian yai market, where you just get stares and glares and underhand comments when you try to shop there. That is why I limit myself to shopping with the few street vendors I know appreciate the business and the supermarkets where they are much more reasonable about dealing with you because it is their duty. 

 

It is an inward looking culture, not unlike many homogeneous neighborhoods in America however, you just have to accept it will never change.

[nemrut]

12 minutes ago, tonray said:

That is absolutely true. In BKK (I live in an area not popular with foreigners) and many Thai vendors do not like to deal with me...I get the grunt and my change and then the inevitable chit chat about the 'farang' that I hear as I walk away. In Kohn Kaen, another city I have experience with, there is a much softer approach. While Thais in general do NOT want you in their neighborhoods, just try and walk down any small soi and the snarling dogs, the comments from the Thai men drinking on the side, and the stares you get from everyone else are a very unwelcoming sign. The most troubling is when faced with an aggressive dog where Thais are sitting right there, not one will say a word or raise a hand to help you, you are on your own. I can deal with that, we all want to keep what we are comfortable with and they do not want foreigners in their universe. But in many cities ,like Kohn Kaen there is a big difference in how they react to you in the common areas away from their domain, they are friendly and will actually help you. In BKK, there is the pretend patronizing in the farang tourist areas and then there is my experience in areas such as the Wongwian yai market, where you just get stares and glares and underhand comments when you try to shop there. That is why I limit myself to shopping with the few street vendors I know appreciate the business and the supermarkets where they are much more reasonable about dealing with you because it is their duty. 

 

It is an inward looking culture, not unlike many homogeneous neighborhoods in America however, you just have to accept it will never change.

 

 

Yet you're not subjected to verbal nor physical attacks the way many non-whites are in your home country and other western countries.

 

You should be grateful that youre even treated as well as you are and allowed to live in Thailand with little if any resistance from the govt unlike most countries.

 

Too many westerners come to Thailand and show little if any respect and even scorn for Thais and their culture.  This very evident in BKK and other cities w/a lot of expats (ie, western migrants), hence the unwelcoming treatment.

 

[tonray]

6 minutes ago, nemrut said:

 

Yet you're not subjected to verbal nor physical attacks the way many non-whites are in your home country and other western countries.

 

You should be grateful that youre even treated as well as you are and allowed to live in Thailand with little if any resistance from the govt unlike most countries.

 

Too many westerners come to Thailand and show little if any respect and even scorn for Thais and their culture.  This very evident in BKK and other cities w/a lot of expats (ie, western migrants), hence the unwelcoming treatment.

 

Not sure why you had to add that rant about race relations in the west, irrelevant as the subject is Thai opinions of foreigners.

 

Yes I am grateful with certain caveats that i mentioned earlier. And I am about the most polite and respectful person they likely encounter on a typical day, I always try to approach with a smile but still in their domain neighborhoods they do not want me there. Just a fact of life.

[elliss]

On 10/6/2016 at 7:22 PM, MikeyIdea said:

 

They are not afraid of the outside world at all

 

     Thai  people  are now  becoming Educated ,

they  are no longer servants of  the  Great White Hunter .    Those  days, of Western/ white supremacy , have long gone and,  are  not forgotten . Change  is  happening , at a pace , now Thai professionals , can afford predjudice .

Edited October 23, 2016 by elliss

[tonray]

18 hours ago, elliss said:

 

     Thai  people  are now  becoming Educated ,

they  are no longer servants of  the  Great White Hunter .    Those  days, of Western/ white supremacy , have long gone and,  are  not forgotten . Change  is  happening , at a pace , now Thai professionals , can afford predjudice .

Now they are servants to the Great White Hunter's bank. When the gravy train finally dries up from the Federal Reserve and the BOJ...all those nice condo projects on every street corner are going to go poof like a dandelion in the wind.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, tonray said:

Now they are servants to the Great White Hunter's bank. When the gravy train finally dries up from the Federal Reserve and the BOJ...all those nice condo projects on every street corner are going to go poof like a dandelion in the wind.

 

You rate the West far too highly and underestimate the East substantially - a better balance between the two may help your objectivity..

[tonray]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

You rate the West far too highly and underestimate the East substantially - a better balance between the two may help your objectivity..

No..I simply understand finance and current capital flows. Flows that have been pushed into smaller and emerging markets due to low interest rates in the West. When rates rise in the West, the capital flows dry up in the East as capital moves towards higher returns. 

[SoiBiker]

20 hours ago, tonray said:

That is absolutely true. In BKK (I live in an area not popular with foreigners) and many Thai vendors do not like to deal with me...I get the grunt and my change and then the inevitable chit chat about the 'farang' that I hear as I walk away. In Kohn Kaen, another city I have experience with, there is a much softer approach. While Thais in general do NOT want you in their neighborhoods, just try and walk down any small soi and the snarling dogs, the comments from the Thai men drinking on the side, and the stares you get from everyone else are a very unwelcoming sign. The most troubling is when faced with an aggressive dog where Thais are sitting right there, not one will say a word or raise a hand to help you, you are on your own. I can deal with that, we all want to keep what we are comfortable with and they do not want foreigners in their universe. But in many cities ,like Kohn Kaen there is a big difference in how they react to you in the common areas away from their domain, they are friendly and will actually help you. In BKK, there is the pretend patronizing in the farang tourist areas and then there is my experience in areas such as the Wongwian yai market, where you just get stares and glares and underhand comments when you try to shop there. That is why I limit myself to shopping with the few street vendors I know appreciate the business and the supermarkets where they are much more reasonable about dealing with you because it is their duty. 

 

It is an inward looking culture, not unlike many homogeneous neighborhoods in America however, you just have to accept it will never change.

 

That's completely at odds with my experience of living in Bangkok. Are you sure its because you're foreign, rather than being disliked for some other reason?

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, tonray said:

No..I simply understand finance and current capital flows. Flows that have been pushed into smaller and emerging markets due to low interest rates in the West. When rates rise in the West, the capital flows dry up in the East as capital moves towards higher returns. 

 

Perhaps your first mistake is to refer to Thailand as an emerging market, which it is not, it is very much of a developing market and there's a substantial difference between the two.

 

Your second was to presume that capital outflows from the East will automatically reinvest in USD, Jack Ma, Robin Li and many others will disagree with you.

 

The third might be a presumption that any US interest rate rise is sustainable without having a negative impact on US banks.

 

FWIW the majority of hedge fund capital outflows from Thailand have already gone, many many months ago.

 

[tonray]

11 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

 

That's completely at odds with my experience of living in Bangkok. Are you sure its because you're foreign, rather than being disliked for some other reason?

Perhaps you are just better looking than me, does that make you feel better about insulting me ?

[SoiBiker]

Just now, tonray said:

Perhaps you are just better looking than me, does that make you feel better about insulting me ?

 

I don't think my good looks, or your lack thereof, is the issue here. My point was that we reap what we sow, and perhaps there's something about your attitude or behaviour that means your experience with the locals is different to mine.

[chiang mai]

20 hours ago, tonray said:

That is absolutely true. In BKK (I live in an area not popular with foreigners) and many Thai vendors do not like to deal with me...I get the grunt and my change and then the inevitable chit chat about the 'farang' that I hear as I walk away. In Kohn Kaen, another city I have experience with, there is a much softer approach. While Thais in general do NOT want you in their neighborhoods, just try and walk down any small soi and the snarling dogs, the comments from the Thai men drinking on the side, and the stares you get from everyone else are a very unwelcoming sign. The most troubling is when faced with an aggressive dog where Thais are sitting right there, not one will say a word or raise a hand to help you, you are on your own. I can deal with that, we all want to keep what we are comfortable with and they do not want foreigners in their universe. But in many cities ,like Kohn Kaen there is a big difference in how they react to you in the common areas away from their domain, they are friendly and will actually help you. In BKK, there is the pretend patronizing in the farang tourist areas and then there is my experience in areas such as the Wongwian yai market, where you just get stares and glares and underhand comments when you try to shop there. That is why I limit myself to shopping with the few street vendors I know appreciate the business and the supermarkets where they are much more reasonable about dealing with you because it is their duty. 

 

It is an inward looking culture, not unlike many homogeneous neighborhoods in America however, you just have to accept it will never change.

 

Having earlier responded to your understanding of capital outflows, I'm sorry that I did, you appear to understand very little about Thai people or perhaps even people in general, other than Americans! That's not an attack in any way on the US but the things you have written, good grief, look at what you've said, you clearly don't understand Thai or Thai culture yet you know what "they" want at a detail level!

 

 

[elliss]

On 10/24/2016 at 5:58 PM, chiang mai said:

 

You rate the West far too highly and underestimate the East substantially - a better balance between the two may help your objectivity..

     My  opinion is as always,  subjective . 

     This  Topic relates  to  Thailand .

 

   The  main  player in the Eastern World  is China ,

       whose culture  has   no respect for ,  Western capitalism .

As,   we soon shall learn , as they enjoy  , the collapse of gbp , and euro soon to follow

Edited October 25, 2016 by elliss

[elliss]

24 minutes ago, elliss said:

     

 

24 minutes ago, elliss said:

    interesting  and valued  replies, on this topic .

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by elliss

[spidermike007]

The junta dislikes foreigners. No doubt about that. But they are hellbent on using a nationalist agenda, to maintain their power base. And they are fabulously ignorant men, who know little about anything. So, does that really matter? Not unless they are allowed to get away with really turning up the heat. I do not see that happening without a real fight from the people.

 

The people? I do not think so. Most I know are warm, friendly and helpful, and genuinely seem to like foreigners. That may not apply to tourist areas, like Samui, Phuket and Pattaya, where the people are largely jaded, and overwhelmed by alot of low class foreigners, who behave badly. Certainly I am not talking about the majority of ex-pats or tourists. Just a small percentage, who spoil it for the rest of us. 

[geronimo]

Its all in your imagination Sir.

[GinBoy2]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The junta dislikes foreigners. No doubt about that. But they are hellbent on using a nationalist agenda, to maintain their power base. And they are fabulously ignorant men, who know little about anything. So, does that really matter? Not unless they are allowed to get away with really turning up the heat. I do not see that happening without a real fight from the people.

 

The people? I do not think so. Most I know are warm, friendly and helpful, and genuinely seem to like foreigners. That may not apply to tourist areas, like Samui, Phuket and Pattaya, where the people are largely jaded, and overwhelmed by alot of low class foreigners, who behave badly. Certainly I am not talking about the majority of ex-pats or tourists. Just a small percentage, who spoil it for the rest of us. 

I think you're pretty much spot on here.

 

There is a real bipolar aspect to Thai society, where the elite really have a xenophobic view towards foreigners, of whatever color or nationality, and regular Thai's, who I've always founds friendly and welcoming.

 

Problem is, it's former that rule the roost and set the rules and drive policies. 

I wouldn't want to place any bets on it getting better any time soon!

[Fex Bluse]

On 10/6/2016 at 6:28 PM, khunpa said:

 

I agree that the general population properly feels very much the same. At least towards Farangs. With other foreigners the issue might be different.

 

However, I worry if this might change due to the signals from above. After all, Thais seem pretty easy to convince to just follow the flow. 

 

One thing I do not understand, is that a country being so exposed to tourists for so many years, still can be so afraid of the outside world.

I agree. 

 

Though they have been exposed to mass tourism for several decades, Thais, in the main, I think it's fair to say interact with outsiders on a single, mostly superficial plane. 

 

"You like Thailand?" 

"Where you come from?" 

"You like Thai food?" 

 

For 30 years, very few Thais want to know much more than this about me or almost any Farang I know. 

 

Thais generally view Farang in a transactional sense only. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[Fex Bluse]

@spidermike007 @GinBoy2

 

Interesting comments above. 

 

I agree that it is the Thai "elite" (almost alway Thai Chinese) who are most hostile. I suppose they understand (quietly and unspoken) that they could never compete with the educated world outside their artificial, protected Thai environment. So, they necessarily fear competition they can not unfairly control. However, like most of Asia, the values of the non-elites are malleable and easily influenced by their elite power brokers. Poor Thais desire to be like rich ones. They have little other guiding principles. 

 

However, I agree that they will play nice for the time being for a couple reasons:

 

1. The country faces a real risk of being left and stuck in the middle income trap for another decade or longer if it does not attempt to learn from the outside world 

 

2. If the country pushes a xenophobic agenda too forcefully, countries like the US and others, having now tasted nationalism ala Trump, will push far harder and could quite literally destroy a tiny, insignificant economy like Thailand's. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by Fex Bluse

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

and overwhelmed by alot of low class foreigners,

If I were a high-class foreigner, I wouldn't be staying in Thailand.

(I'd be in California, or Switzerland or the Maldives or the South of France)

[spidermike007]

26 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

I agree. 

 

Though they have been exposed to mass tourism for several decades, Thais, in the main, I think it's fair to say interact with outsiders on a single, mostly superficial plane. 

 

"You like Thailand?" 

"Where you come from?" 

"You like Thai food?" 

 

For 30 years, very few Thais want to know much more than this about me or almost any Farang I know. 

 

Thais generally view Farang in a transactional sense only. 

 

But, I think most Thais are not curious people. They are taught in school to not ask questions of the teacher, probe an issue, or explore alternatives. Curiosity is a learned response. The system and the culture does not encourage curiosity. So, to expect the people to be curious about us, may be an unreasonable expectation. I do not think they are that curious about each other, either, or the world at large.

 

As far as viewing foreigners in a transactional sense, I think the resort areas, the elite, and the government view foreigners in this regard. Not the common men or women. With the exception of a percentage of women looking to hook up with a foreigner, or the working girls.

Edited November 2, 2018 by spidermike007

[spidermike007]

21 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

@spidermike007 @GinBoy2

 

Interesting comments above. 

 

I agree that it is the Thai "elite" (almost alway Thai Chinese) who are most hostile. I suppose they understand (quietly and unspoken) that they could never compete with the educated world outside their artificial, protected Thai environment. So, they necessarily fear competition they can not unfairly control. However, like most of Asia, the values of the non-elites are malleable and easily influenced by their elite power brokers. Poor Thais desire to be like rich ones. They have little other guiding principles. 

 

However, I agree that they will play nice for the time being for a couple reasons:

 

1. The country faces a real risk of being left and stuck in the middle income trap for another decade or longer if it does not attempt to learn from the outside world 

 

2. If the country pushes a xenophobic agenda too forcefully, countries like the US and others, having now tasted nationalism ala Trump, will push far harder and could quite literally destroy a tiny, insignificant economy like Thailand's. 

 

Thailand does not have an insignificant economy. It is around $450 billion annually, and is ranked 26th in the world. It is the 8th largest economy in Asia. Nothing tiny about that.

[spidermike007]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If I were a high-class foreigner, I wouldn't be staying in Thailand.

(I'd be in California, or Switzerland or the Maldives or the South of France)

Definitely not California. Cali is 30 years past it's prime. Everyone I know who lives in California, and has the means, has left, or is planning on leaving. 

 

There are so many other spots that are infinitely more desirable. Cali is fine for a visit. I just spent a few days in Sonoma, and it was amazing. But, I sure as hell would not want to live in Cali. Lived there for many years, and I was thrilled to get out.