SURVEY: Is the Immigration policy of Good Guys in/Bad Guys Out effective?

[keeniau96]

The local definition of "good" = money; "better good" = more money;  "best good" = far more money

 

Bad is arbitrary, depending on the locals.

 

 

 

[off road pat]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Could this topic be more specific? Just who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys? Some posters opinion of a good guy could be anothers of a bad guy.

As far as the Thai authorities are concerned, I would think their idea of a good guy is the one who spends the most money, and the bad guy is the Cheap Charlie type, that would make me near the bottom of the list because I don't drink alcohol, don't frequent bars, and always stay in 500Bt guesthouses when on my travels.

I'm like you, but have found good +/- 350 bath guesthouses as well.....

[monkey4u]

3 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Have not noticed an intolerable amount of undesirables.  Only have noticed the unrelenting reports of such people.   Immigration seems to be solving a non problem.  It just looks like another shake down.   'Good Guys In/Bad Guys Out' is like 'quality tourists'.  It is just Thainess for the desire for more money for the government coffers.

It all depends on who you talk to

One of my neighbours thinks I should be kicked out, the other shares my opinion of the first one 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

I think a lot of what the Thais are concerned about is, are you able to take care of yourself in the event of accidents, health issues, etc. The unpaid medical bills used to be staggering but I don't know if that has improved or not. ...

 

Require proof of health-insurance on entry, and sell policies right there on-the-spot like they do "car insurance" at some country's borders. 

 

Same for proof of funds on entry - put an ATM right there, outside the immi-booth, and allow people to pull out the money or print a statement.

 

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

...I think if they were worried about what you spend they would not allow the 800,000 baht in bank method of proof of income, instead requiring a given amount in transfer each month from pensions or accounts back home. The 800,000 can lay dormant while you spend nearly nothing in their economy.

 

Some offices have started making trouble about this - asking to see "active transfers" - to spite that not being what the law requires.  But given there are no "handouts" to expats here, they have nothing to loose, and only to gain, by allowing anyone who is not destitute or working illegally to stay - especially provided they show they have the funds on-hand to deal with any emergency.

Edited October 30, 2016 by JackThompson

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a post and a reply to it that was off topic and inflammatory.

Time to get back on topic. It is not peoples attire and etc.

IMO it was mostly about those that overstay. 

[ujayujay]

4 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Have not noticed an intolerable amount of undesirables.  Only have noticed the unrelenting reports of such people.   Immigration seems to be solving a non problem.  It just looks like another shake down.   'Good Guys In/Bad Guys Out' is like 'quality tourists'.  It is just Thainess for the desire for more money for the government coffers.

Nonsense....... Who does not have a valid visa belongs to the "bad guys", as in most other country.  This mainly includes "quality tourists", who deliberately overcame their stay. For some Thai Visa readers, this simple fact seems difficult to understand.  No country in the world wants tourists or retirees who ultimately submerge in the country without a valid visa and without money.

[IMA_FARANG]

 No I don't believe the "Good guys in and Bad Guys out" is working because they have not defined well enough what is a Bad Guy and what is a Good guy.

Without a better defination of what is a good guy and what is a bad guy the choice comes down to personal opinion of the immigration officer  involed in making the choice, which lraves it wide upen to bad choices being made based on personal predjudice.

If you want my personal idea on how to keep undisirables out of tourist areas in Thailand, I would suggest all those tourists who are headed to Pattaya or Phuket be charged a fee of the eqquivalet of 50 GBP in whatever currency they are familiar with to visit those two locations.

Otherwise, out they go.

This is just a joking statement and not realistic or practical.

 

Edited October 30, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[Grubster]

34 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Require proof of health-insurance on entry, and sell policies right there on-the-spot like they do "car insurance" at some country's borders. 

 

Same for proof of funds on entry - put an ATM right there, outside the immi-booth, and allow people to pull out the money or print a statement.

 

 

Some offices have started making trouble about this - asking to see "active transfers" - to spite that not being what the law requires.  But given there are no "handouts" to expats here, they have nothing to loose, and only to gain, by allowing anyone who is not destitute or working illegally to stay - especially provided they show they have the funds on-hand to deal with any emergency.

I think at least offering those insurance policies would be a great thing and could be a money maker for Thailand. Maybe for driving too rental or otherwise. Maybe for ski jets and boats also. Anyway its done the Thai people should not have to pay for dead beats and criminals coming here and getting in trouble be it their own fault or not. I know in my country we pay for all but I don't expect other countries to be that stupid. That said many recent events sure don't make Thailand a very attractive destiny.   

[yellowboat]

57 minutes ago, monkey4u said:

It all depends on who you talk to

One of my neighbours thinks I should be kicked out, the other shares my opinion of the first one 

 

What is your crime that makes you so unworthy of living in the land of smiles ?  Do you ask too many questions ?   Do you speak your mind ?

 

[gios50hk]

On 10/30/2016 at 1:06 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

It's pretty clearly not working when Immigration often makes life difficult for ordinary, entirely law abiding residents but alleged terrorists are able to buy entry into and out of the country by paying off Immigration border staff, apparently with little backlash even when those kinds of things are publicly disclosed.

 

And when I say often makes life difficult for ordinary residents, I mean things like the mess that is CM Immigration, the varied offices that essentially are shaking down applicants for extra payments or essentially forcing them to use paid visa agents, running an online 90-day reporting system that is down as often as it works, having a comments/complaints link on the main Immigration website for BKK that never is functional, totally failing to have a clear and consistent set of rules/requirements among ALL the Immigration offices, etc etc.

 

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.

 

On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  

 

So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.

 

If it weren't for the fact that we are virtually bankrupt and have no money to escape this total <removed> - my wife and I would have left the day after we arrived here!

 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by ubonjoe
derotatory comment removed

[yellowboat]

3 minutes ago, gios50hk said:

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.

 

On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  

 

So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.

 

If it weren't for the fact that we are virtually bankrupt and have no money to escape this total shithole - my wife and I would have left the day after we arrived here!

 

 

Yeah, China is not so bad after all.

[MalandLee]

4 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

 No I don't believe the "Good guys in and Bad Guys out" is working because they have not defined well enough what is a Bad Guy and what is a Good guy.

Without a better defination of what is a good guy and what is a bad guy the choice comes down to personal opinion of the immigration officer  involed in making the choice, which lraves it wide upen to bas choices being made based on personal predjudice.

If you want my personal idea on how to keep undisirables out of tourist areas in Thailand, I would suggest all those tourists who are headed to Pattaya or Phuket be charged a fee of the eqquivalet of 50 GBP in whatever currency they are familiar with to visit those two locations.

Otherwise, out they go.

 

I believe all more, ron's who cannot spell be deported, they clearly are Bad-LY educated people and usually write utter rubbish.

 

My wife and three children are going to Phuket and one of these bad spellers thinks we must pay the equivalent of 250 British Pounds - well I guess we are not leaving until Feb 17 so the GBP will probably only be worth 5 Baht by then...

 

Of course that is assuming the Government approve the more ron's, uneducated, pathetic, moronic, stupid, ridiculous, unbelievably daft, worthless, suggestion

 

Of course I am not suggesting IMA-underscore  (for short) is the person in question, happens to be an uncanny coincidence that he posted that "joke" at the same time. Please forgive my incessant ramblings

[ubonjoe]

Perhaps a reminder what the first announcement was about is due.

[MalandLee]

22 hours ago, gios50hk said:

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.

 

On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  

 

So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.

Incredibly sorry to hear this has happened to you, whilst it may be difficult, sometimes - for the benefit of your fellow human - adding some detail to your post as to what specifically happened to you and with your benefit of hindsight - how we can avoid these traps.

 

Without identifying yourself it could really help (some) others

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, off road pat said:

I'm like you, but have found good +/- 350 bath guesthouses as well.....

So have I, there is one I use regularly in Petchabun, almost opposite Big C.

[Chicog]

Start by doing what the US do, and weed out convicted criminals before they arrive.

Then deport and blacklist anyone who commits and is convicted of a criminal offence.

 

 

Surely that's the definition of an undesirable.

Or are they looking at people with bad personal hygiene or, worse, those people that always do a runner when it's their round?

 

 

[NancyL]

I'm involved with a group in Chiang Mai that assists elderly expats with medical problems -- not with financial assistance, but with advice and referrals about assistance available.    www.LannaCareNet.org  

 

I must say that since the overstay rules been more rigorously enforced, blacklisting has gone into place and since they've curtailed the ability of foreigners to turn back-to-back VE entries into a long-stay living arrangement, the nature of our clients' problems has changed dramatically.  In the past, most of our clients were elderly men trying to live on a pension of around 30,000 baht/month (or even less).  That's enough to get by, but not not enough to weather a medical crisis, much less pay for health insurance.  So, when we met our clients in hospital, most had limited ability to pay for their medical emergency or future care.  This near-destitution complicated what was often a grim medical situation.

 

Since the the coup, the nature of our clients has changed and now it's unusual to encounter a client living on such a low monthly income.  Sure, people are still getting sick or in accidents, but usually they have more financial resources, which really improves their medical outcome.

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, MalandLee said:

Incredibly sorry to hear this has happened to you, whilst it may be difficult, sometimes - for the benefit of your fellow human - adding some detail to your post as to what specifically happened to you and with your benefit of hindsight - how we can avoid these traps.

 

Without identifying yourself it could really help (some) others

 

   Deserves its own thread  

[MalandLee]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

 

   Deserves its own thread  

 

I agree, thought that at the time - should have said so

[Ace of Pop]

I thought in this PC World we are all Luvies so there are no riff raff to deport.[emoji85]


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[AloisAmrein]

Good guys in is not working, too many bureaucratic hassles of immigration. Much more easier in Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos.

[Deepinthailand]

As this is only a straw  poll I have no idea of figures of expats living full time here or part time here in Thailand.  I suspect whatever the figure is 1 maybe up to 5% actually read Thai Visa. I have still not seen any reports of overstayers who leave via airports before they are caught being punished as per the new guidelines.  read about a few that have been caught but as thai visa never follows up any story they start we are hanging in limbo. hard to tell who are the so called good guys or bad guys.

Are bad guys those who lie on the new about you forms? ??? Are the good guys those who do everything by the book yet continue to have no regard for thai law???. In short it's a complete waste of time imho

[yellowboat]

6 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

a shake down? blaming the police now for picking up foreigners who don't give a thing about the immigration rules.

get all these idiots out

People should not overstay visas, but immigration has made Thailand less attractive.  

 

[Deepinthailand]

3 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

People should not overstay visas, but immigration has made Thailand less attractive.  

 

Less atractive to who though?? long term stayers possibly but what % are these in the whole tourist figures. How many tourist would even know about Thailand's immigration laws and cracked downs, after all they are comming here for a few weeks in the sun!!

The other side is a guy is a "good guy" for years doing everything by the book then the doggy poo hits the fan. He finds himself between a rock and a hard place. two options leave thailand and leave his family behind or disappear  from the radar stay with family. Sort out the dog poo. get himself sorted. so from good guy yesterday to bad guy today????. 

[zorro1]

My wife and I consider ourselves as normal, decent and hard-working people and moved to Thailand just over two years ago from China - a country (and nationality) that I thought it would be impossible to surpass it terms of overt and systemic racism. I was badly mistaken. Thailand sets new and unparalleled levels of 'anti-foreigner' sentiment that are nothing short of disgraceful. Their attitude towards foreigners living. working and actually surviving (ie visa requirements, work permits/SME business requirements etc) and the constant and continuously destructive malaise of corruption you have to deal with here have made our lives an utter nightmare.
 
On top of this, we have encountered some of the most despicable and ruthless criminals, scam-artists, con-men and total liars we have ever met in our lives! We have been defrauded out of our house and all our life savings by greedy, heartless (and convicted) crooks, openly aided by corrupt local government agencies, lawyers and the parlous legal system here.  
 
So with due respect to 'General Prat' and his cohorts exaltations about 'Good guys in, Bad Guys out' - what complete tosh! I am convinced that Thailand's powers that be warmly welcome the most undesirable scurrilous and evil people to Thailand as they know that it will be to their own mutual benefit. (they will make more in bribes, pay-offs and so on from all these crooks etc!) Meanwhile, good honest people continue to suffer and pay the price for trying to make a valuable contribution to Thai society.
 
If it weren't for the fact that we are virtually bankrupt and have no money to escape this total shithole - my wife and I would have left the day after we arrived here!
 
 

I dont buy your story. You and your wife just sound like a couple fools if it's true so you can only blame your selves and you know what they say a out fools and money? But please don't trash thailand because you screwed up, it takes a special level of silliness to lose everything

[FritsSikkink]

54 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

People should not overstay visas, but immigration has made Thailand less attractive.  

 

goodbye

[sanemax]

55 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

 

The other side is a guy is a "good guy" for years doing everything by the book then the doggy poo hits the fan. He finds himself between a rock and a hard place. two options leave thailand and leave his family behind or disappear  from the radar stay with family. Sort out the dog poo. get himself sorted. so from good guy yesterday to bad guy today????. 

 

   If he has a family, he will be able to get a long term visa based on that , if not, Thailand still allows numerous Tourist Visas .

   With tourists visas from different Embassys , mixed up with a few VES and the occasional new passport, its still very much possible to stay in Thailand long term .

   No one needs to leave his family or overstay . 

YET

[bark]

The Visa Laws keep changing.

One day we will all be Bad guys.

Out we go.

Cambodia here we come.

[212Roger]

10 hours ago, mokwit said:

That is what I was thinking of when i suggested 'Abolish retirement visas?'

Like many on this forum?  Negative.

[212Roger]

8 hours ago, keeniau96 said:

The local definition of "good" = money; "better good" = more money;  "best good" = far more money

 

Bad is arbitrary, depending on the locals.

 

 

 

Bad is: a cheap Charlie I suppose.