May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Just dropping out isnt really the option we all thought- a bit like opting out the premier league for Division 2.  not really a goer.

 

Everything points to a single market solution: not least because it's arguably what people voted for.  Wait until the business community flexes its muscles too. 

The business world in the EU will be at least as powerful as the business world in the UK.

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

The business world in the EU will be at least as powerful as the business world in the UK.

It has surprised me that the major corporates haven't kicked up much of a fuss lately; you could even say they have been quite sanguine. I'm beginning to wonder if they know something already!

[Loaded]

Our EU trade has increased very little in comparison to our trade with the rest of the world since 2005. China, The Middle East, India and The USA is where growth in exports has been for the last decade. We will be fine if trade with the EU drops.

 

The UK treasury will actually be making billions from tariffs if we trade with the EU under WTO rules. These funds can be used to cushion the affects of tariffs for UK companies as we will be free to tax companies as we see fit. However, EU exports to us may drop significantly. For example, the Irish and French agricultural industries will die without the UK market. We'll be buying our dairy products, lamb and beef much more cheaply from countries such the USA and Australia.

 

An interesting read (skip the first couple of paragraphs) to support the two paragraphs above:

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/27/post-brexit-trade-can-thrive-under-wto-rules/

[mommysboy]

23 minutes ago, Loaded said:

Our EU trade has increased very little in comparison to our trade with the rest of the world since 2005. China, The Middle East, India and The USA is where growth in exports has been for the last decade. We will be fine if trade with the EU drops.

 

The UK treasury will actually be making billions from tariffs if we trade with the EU under WTO rules. These funds can be used to cushion the affects of tariffs for UK companies as we will be free to tax companies as we see fit. However, EU exports to us may drop significantly. For example, the Irish and French agricultural industries will die without the UK market. We'll be buying our dairy products, lamb and beef much more cheaply from countries such the USA and Australia.

 

An interesting read (skip the first couple of paragraphs) to support the two paragraphs above:

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/27/post-brexit-trade-can-thrive-under-wto-rules/

Thanks for posting this.  This sentence grabbed me:  "Preferential trade deals may oil the wheels of international commerce, but their importance should be kept in perspective. If the commercial circumstances are adverse, trade will not thrive, irrespective of special trade agreements."

 

It really comes down to the UK offering a better product and service than the next country, or something unique.  Energies need to go in to this and not fruitless, pontless negotiations.

 

The author also makes an important argument about EU needing the City of London.  This should ensure some kind of deal is reached if all else fails.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Who's going to pick my fruit and veggies eh? Who? You?"

 

I'm sure this was addressed earlier in the thread, or perhaps it was another thread - I lose track...

 

In short, back in the 'old days', UK fruit and veg was picked by wives (and children during school holidays) looking to earn money to supplement the family income/pocket money.  Its quite possible of course that you came from a wealthier family and therefore don't know this .

Now then, I went spud bashin' no problem. Sack apron, 10/- a week and a bucket of spuds if you were very lucky. Great spud though: Maris Piper, Sharps Express, Golden Wonder, King Edwards. There was this bird int' next furrow and ah can remember 'er now! Fabulous buttocks... sorry! Time for bed ?

 

Young folks today; the' know nowt!

[Naam]

4 hours ago, Loaded said:

For example, the Irish and French agricultural industries will die without the UK market.

because there is no other market for their products besides the UK market

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, Loaded said:

Our EU trade has increased very little in comparison to our trade with the rest of the world since 2005. China, The Middle East, India and The USA is where growth in exports has been for the last decade. We will be fine if trade with the EU drops.

 

The UK treasury will actually be making billions from tariffs if we trade with the EU under WTO rules. These funds can be used to cushion the affects of tariffs for UK companies as we will be free to tax companies as we see fit. However, EU exports to us may drop significantly. For example, the Irish and French agricultural industries will die without the UK market. We'll be buying our dairy products, lamb and beef much more cheaply from countries such the USA and Australia.

 

An interesting read (skip the first couple of paragraphs) to support the two paragraphs above:

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/01/27/post-brexit-trade-can-thrive-under-wto-rules/

If the EU decide not to allow UK citizens rights in the EU which is quiet likely, many countries will suffer much more than the UK.

 

Just think of the problems Spain will face. Already faced with an over supply of housing and high unemployment, it's only the Brits on the Costa's that are keeping many establishments open.

 

The real crunch will come with the Town Halls. They rely massively on taxes from UK residents and home owners. Without these, the schools and infrastructure will suffer. Also, despite EU rules to the contrary, they tax non residents a wealth tax in lieu of perceived income from letting the property out when the owner is in the UK. But do Spain care about EU laws....NO

 

Then there is the massive fruit and veg exports to the UK. If we are forced to pay levies, we can get all of these cheaper from South America or South Africa.

 

Poor old Spain, it will lose out big time.

[Loaded]

8 hours ago, Naam said:

because there is no other market for their products besides the UK market

You come across as very naive.

 

Plenty of markets where they could sell, but like now, few are interested in their products because either their own farmers produce at cheaper prices or they don't buy those products. Ireland is crapping itself at the moment as it appears there won't be a trade agreement other than WTO tariffs.

 

From a report written by the Irish Farmers' Association:

 

"Brexit presents the most serious threat to Irish farming and our agri- food sector in the history of the State. With 40% of our food exports
going  to  the  UK,  no  other  Member  State  and  no  other  sector  is  as  exposed  in  these  negotiations.  The  short-term  uncertainty  has  led  
to  the  depreciation  of  sterling,  putting  serious  pressure  on  Irish  farmgate prices and exports. "

 

https://www.ifa.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/763773Brexit-imperatives-policy-paper55629.pdf

 

"BREXIT could decimate the Irish farming industry because the British Government is likely to fill supermarket shelves with cheaper, non-EU produce than fork out for tariffed goods, the country's farmers fear."

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/796990/Brexit-Ireland-import-agriculture-economy-business-Article-50-European-Union-farming

[sandyf]

Some good news for the brexiteers.

 

Research by career website Hired reveals that the pool of overseas candidates who had accepted initial offers from UK-based companies has dropped by 50 per cent since the UK voted to leave the EU in June last year.

This means foreign tech talents are already seeking employers outside of the UK. This marks a worrying trend for an industry in which some skills are already in such short supply, that British firms are offering non-UK nationals an average of 28 per cent more than local applicants in order to fill job vacancies, according to Hired.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-foreign-tech-job-applications-half-50-per-cent-eu-referendum-vote-a7728776.html

[sandyf]

A touch of reality on the export boom.

 

Gripple's and Camira's experience is shared by other exporters. Official data shows the value in sterling of British goods exports has risen 15 percent since last year — but the actual volume of goods sold overseas has barely changed.

The last time the gap between these two measures was so big was during the global financial crisis, when sterling also tumbled but export volumes failed to improve.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-exporters-long-term-gains-pound-sterling-windfall-gripple-a7725791.html

 

[Loaded]

The Independent and the Guardian are heavily biased towards anti Brexit. The Guardian is shockingly biased.

 

However, until there is an agreement in place, it's completely understandable that foreign graduates will be hesitant to commit to the UK. I think you should wait until there is an agreement in place before predicting a long-term trend; that would be more sensible, wouldn't it? This isn't news, it's spin.

 

If the graduates are French or Spanish, there's little point them applying for jobs in their own countries as jobs don't exist there.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Loaded

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, nauseus said:

OK. But the EU was not in existence when the French and British built the superb Concorde, together!

Very good point. The Anglo/French Concorde project was only approved by the UK government in an attempt to persuade De Gaulle to lift his veto on the UK entering the common market, which it failed to do. Political expediency was the order of the day rather than a considered investment.

 

The aircraft itself was an outstanding example of UK engineering that once again the UK government failed to capitalise on.

I was at Brize Norton at the time and witnessed the trial flights out of Fairford, quite spectacular.

 

[sandyf]

10 minutes ago, Loaded said:

The Independent and the Guardian are heavily biased towards anti Brexit. The Guardian is shockingly biased.

 

However, until there is an agreement in place, it's completely understandable that foreign graduates will be hesitant to commit to the UK. I think you should wait until there is an agreement in place before predicting a long-term trend; that would be more sensible, wouldn't it? This isn't news, it's spin.

 

If the graduates are French or Spanish, there's little point them applying for jobs in their own countries as jobs don't exist there.

"This isn't news, it's spin."

So the research by the recruitment consultancy is flawed and nothing but spin.

Your entitled to your opinion, looks like every report or survey is now being classed as fake news or spin.

 

[Loaded]

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"This isn't news, it's spin."

So the research by the recruitment consultancy is flawed and nothing but spin.

Your entitled to your opinion, looks like every report or survey is now being classed as fake news or spin.

 

I'm not questioning the research, I'm questioning whether it's news or spin. The context has been omitted and it's been published as 'news' by a paper with a heavy bias against Brexit. I'd say that makes it spin.

 

"Your (sic) entitled to your opinion, looks like every report or survey is now being classed as fake news or spin."

Not quite, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, Loaded said:

I'm not questioning the research, I'm questioning whether it's news or spin. The context has been omitted and it's been published as 'news' by a paper with a heavy bias against Brexit. I'd say that makes it spin.

 

"Your (sic) entitled to your opinion, looks like every report or survey is now being classed as fake news or spin."

Not quite, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Not another Daily Mail/Daily Express/Conspiracy Website aficionado posing as a media studies student expert on spin!

[Loaded]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Not another Daily Mail/Daily Express/Conspiracy Website aficionado posing as a media studies student expert on spin!

You don't really get this debating stuff, do you?

 

What you do is respond with an articulate and substantiated rebuttal rather than show yourself to be incapable of discussion.

[Naam]

5 hours ago, Loaded said:

"BREXIT could decimate the Irish farming industry

Quote

17 hours ago, Loaded said:

For example, the Irish and French agricultural industries will die without the UK market.

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Some good news for the brexiteers.

 

Research by career website Hired reveals that the pool of overseas candidates who had accepted initial offers from UK-based companies has dropped by 50 per cent since the UK voted to leave the EU in June last year.

This means foreign tech talents are already seeking employers outside of the UK. This marks a worrying trend for an industry in which some skills are already in such short supply, that British firms are offering non-UK nationals an average of 28 per cent more than local applicants in order to fill job vacancies, according to Hired.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-foreign-tech-job-applications-half-50-per-cent-eu-referendum-vote-a7728776.html

"This marks a worrying trend for an industry in which some skills are already in such short supply, that British firms are offering non-UK nationals an average of 28 per cent more than local applicants in order to fill job vacancies, according to Hired."

 

Perhaps if those companies increased salaries by 28% for local as well as foreign people, more UK people would be encouraged to train in these fields - eventually resulting in fewer shortages of suitably trained staff within the UK?

[dick dasterdly]

13 hours ago, Grouse said:

Now then, I went spud bashin' no problem. Sack apron, 10/- a week and a bucket of spuds if you were very lucky. Great spud though: Maris Piper, Sharps Express, Golden Wonder, King Edwards. There was this bird int' next furrow and ah can remember 'er now! Fabulous buttocks... sorry! Time for bed ?

 

Young folks today; the' know nowt!

Goes to show how spud bashing and the like were paid differently, according to the area!  Where we lived, we were paid per sack 'picked' - therefore productivity determined the amount of money paid.

 

Worked extremely well as us kids could go and play for a while (when bored) and start again when we suddenly remembered the joy of the pocket money!

 

But the point is that even though the pay was relatively low, the work was done by locals looking to supplement the family income - until farmers discovered they could pay even less for foreigners from poor countries....

[ilostmypassword]

Here's a link to an overview of the banking and finance industry in London. It's an interesting read no matter where you stand on the issue of Brexit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/business/dealbook/brexit-uk-london-banking.html

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Goes to show how spud bashing and the like were paid differently, according to the area!  Where we lived, we were paid per sack 'picked' - therefore productivity determined the amount of money paid.

 

Worked extremely well as us kids could go and play for a while (when bored) and start again when we suddenly remembered the joy of the pocket money!

 

But the point is that even though the pay was relatively low, the work was done by locals looking to supplement the family income - until farmers discovered they could pay even less for foreigners from poor countries....

Kids have turned into potatoes! No way to prise the iPad from their grip!

[Grouse]

23 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Here's a link to an overview of the banking and finance industry in London. It's an interesting read no matter where you stand on the issue of Brexit.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/business/dealbook/brexit-uk-london-banking.html

Great stuff! Do you think the wise Brexiteers will understand? ( I bet I get told off for calling them wise? ?). Thatcher must be trying to crawl her way back before it's too late...

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"This marks a worrying trend for an industry in which some skills are already in such short supply, that British firms are offering non-UK nationals an average of 28 per cent more than local applicants in order to fill job vacancies, according to Hired."

 

Perhaps if those companies increased salaries by 28% for local as well as foreign people, more UK people would be encouraged to train in these fields - eventually resulting in fewer shortages of suitably trained staff within the UK?

We don't have the maths and physics teachers to teach the kids who don't want to study these A levels to get to universities where they don't want to learn engineering to get the qualifications for the careers they're not interested in....

 

But, as I heard on Radio 4 a couple of days ago, they are educating our six year olds about FGM! I kid you not! We're losing the plot.

 

I did consider spending a few years teaching maths and electronics following the Con Party push for technology training. However, when you see the detail it's laughable! This is a picture of a nuclear reactor; colour it in .....

Edited May 11, 2017 by Grouse

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Great stuff! Do you think the wise Brexiteers will understand? ( I bet I get told off for calling them wise? ?). Thatcher must be trying to crawl her way back before it's too late...

The story is somewhat doomy, but not all gloomy. The economic aspect comprised just about all of the remain argument and while there are valid concerns, I think that leavers with any reasonable knowledge understand the potential implications of these. But, as I have said before, I believe that the majority (of the majority), felt that the economy was not the deciding factor in the referendum.  

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The story is somewhat doomy, but not all gloomy. The economic aspect comprised just about all of the remain argument and while there are valid concerns, I think that leavers with any reasonable knowledge understand the potential implications of these. But, as I have said before, I believe that the majority (of the majority), felt that the economy was not the deciding factor in the referendum.  

Well it's a comfort that at least the wise Brexiteers understand the rather steep and high downside.

 

I'm already looking forward to the sunlit lands of milk and honey at the bottom of the cliff. I'll bet it's going to be too lovely for words! ?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Well it's a comfort that at least the wise Brexiteers understand the rather steep and high downside.

 

I'm already looking forward to the sunlit lands of milk and honey at the bottom of the cliff. I'll bet it's going to be too lovely for words! ?

Oh for the sunlit lands, as Greece, Spain and Portugal once were! Sigh.......

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, sandyf said:

Very good point. The Anglo/French Concorde project was only approved by the UK government in an attempt to persuade De Gaulle to lift his veto on the UK entering the common market, which it failed to do. Political expediency was the order of the day rather than a considered investment.

 

The aircraft itself was an outstanding example of UK engineering that once again the UK government failed to capitalise on.

I was at Brize Norton at the time and witnessed the trial flights out of Fairford, quite spectacular.

 

Damn, I forgot to put Concord on my list of good things about the UK. Terrific engineering; could we still do it? Always fun to have an American airline captain at JFK pointing out the supersonic beauty to his 747 passengers! Speedbird indeed!

[Grouse]

Labour has some good ideas

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways

[vogie]

16 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Labour has some good ideas

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways

Yes and Diane Abbott has some new ideas about streamlining the police force and saving money.

[Grouse]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Labour has some good ideas

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/10/labour-party-manifesto-pledges-to-end-tuition-fees-and-nationalise-railways

Not a bad idea for the railways, utilities and post office in public ownership

 

scrapping tuition fees would be good but only for proper degrees....