May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

 

The economy failed because of the credit crunch.  In UK that just happened to be when Labour was in power, whereas in USA it was Republicans.

Much more to it than that. Browns and Greenspan's economic strategies of home ownership for low earning families caused the toxic debt which the banks then tried to hide. Well documented.

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been edited.  

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Flustered said:

Much more to it than that. Browns and Greenspan's economic strategies of home ownership for low earning families caused the toxic debt which the banks then tried to hide. Well documented.

 

I meant that it was not any looney left policy that ruined the public finances... that dubious  distinction went to the financials!  And they certainly did it in spades.

 

The banks didn't hide the debt.  As I recall they bundled all the dross together, and labelled it 'AAA', thereafter embarking on casino banking on the derivatives.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I meant that it was not any looney left policy that ruined the public finances... that dubious  distinction went to the financials!  And they certainly did it in spades.

 

The banks didn't hide the debt.  As I recall they bundled all the dross together, and labelled it 'AAA', thereafter embarking on casino banking on the derivatives.

The credit ratings are assigned by the credit rating agencies.

[SheungWan]

13 hours ago, Flustered said:

Much more to it than that. Browns and Greenspan's economic strategies of home ownership for low earning families caused the toxic debt which the banks then tried to hide. Well documented.

Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer and responsible for fiscal policies in the UK. Greenspan was chairman of the Federal Reserve and responsible for monetary policies in the US. Those untutored in economics often fail to distinguish between fiscal and monetary policies but the distinction is crucial. PS, the water is slightly muddied by the Fed having employment as an added remit unlike the ECB or the BoE, but none of the central banks have economic strategy as their remit. Economic strategy is fiscal. PPS Before pointing out what is well documented it pays to actually understand what one is pointing at.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, onthesoi said:

Their public services, particularly education, are still better than anywhere else ...& what seems expensive to you might not to a German who is also willing to pay more for quality.

Tell me about it, I spent two and a half years in Germany in the early 70's. A guy I went to school with came to work as a labourer on building sites in the local village, he was paid 3 times as much as me, an engineering SNCO in HM service. But time moves on.

[dick dasterdly]

22 hours ago, pitrevie said:

All we need now is for those who voted Brexit and who come here bemoaning the transfer of assets to foreign hands or wanting their country back to confess. One guy here who is almost tenacious in having the last word in any exchange went strangely silent when I brought that up.

If you're looking for one particular poster to respond, then you need to ask that question of the poster.

 

Its extremely unlikely that every poster on these threads is going to line up to post whether or not they bought shares in privatised companies!

[pitrevie]

58 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

If you're looking for one particular poster to respond, then you need to ask that question of the poster.

 

Its extremely unlikely that every poster on these threads is going to line up to post whether or not they bought shares in privatised companies!

I did and you didn't.

[ilostmypassword]

16 hours ago, Flustered said:

Much more to it than that. Browns and Greenspan's economic strategies of home ownership for low earning families caused the toxic debt which the banks then tried to hide. Well documented.

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer and responsible for fiscal policies in the UK. Greenspan was chairman of the Federal Reserve and responsible for monetary policies in the US. Those untutored in economics often fail to distinguish between fiscal and monetary policies but the distinction is crucial. PS, the water is slightly muddied by the Fed having employment as an added remit unlike the ECB or the BoE, but none of the central banks have economic strategy as their remit. Economic strategy is fiscal. PPS Before pointing out what is well documented it pays to actually understand what one is pointing at.

I tried to google any reference to Brown easing the standards for mortgages and couldn't find any. I did see that after the crash hit, he did institute a program to help homeowners in financial distress keep their homes.

 

[dick dasterdly]

10 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I did and you didn't.

I thought you might be referring to me .

 

Firstly, I eventually decided not to vote in the referendum - and secondly, I didn't buy any shares in privatised companies.

 

As I didn't 'fit' into either of your categories, it seemed a bit pointless replying to your point on this subject!

 

I'd also mention that I've been 'quiet' recently as I know far too little on the Marshall Plan/Germany's economy etc. - whereas other posters are clearly far better informed.

 

Edit - Which also explains why my 'likes' are few and far between - I'm aware that I frequently don't know enough about the subject being discussed.

Edited May 14, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Naam]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Tell me about it, I spent two and a half years in Germany in the early 70's. A guy I went to school with came to work as a labourer on building sites in the local village, he was paid 3 times as much as me, an engineering SNCO in HM service. But time moves on.

i had an interesting experience working in Saudi Arabia in the 70s where British expats were on the lowest pay scale of expats from so-called "1stworld countries".

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I thought you might be referring to me .

 

Firstly, I eventually decided not to vote in the referendum - and secondly, I didn't buy an shares in privatised companies.

 

As I didn't 'fit' into either of your categories, it seemed a bit pointless replying to your point on this subject!

 

I'd also mention that I've been 'quiet' recently as I know far too little on the Marshall Plan/Germany's economy etc. - whereas other posters are clearly far better informed.

Someone who's not commenting because he doesn't know enough about the subject?  Is this a thaivisa.com first?

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer and responsible for fiscal policies in the UK. Greenspan was chairman of the Federal Reserve and responsible for monetary policies in the US. Those untutored in economics often fail to distinguish between fiscal and monetary policies but the distinction is crucial. PS, the water is slightly muddied by the Fed having employment as an added remit unlike the ECB or the BoE, but none of the central banks have economic strategy as their remit. Economic strategy is fiscal. PPS Before pointing out what is well documented it pays to actually understand what one is pointing at.

Thanks for pointing out your very limited understanding of what influences international finance. I suppose a result of Blair's dumbing down of the education system.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

i had an interesting experience working in Saudi Arabia in the 70s where British expats were on the lowest pay scale of expats from so-called "1stworld countries".

That sounds about right. A lot of the guys I worked with ended up in Saudi and Oman, many moved from Saudi to Oman because the companies with the contracts were screwing them into the ground.

The guy who came to work in Germany was a real life 'Auf Wiedersehen Pet' and is a multi millionaire now, will catch up with him in a few weeks time.

 

Since the UK went into the Europe I think the differentials between UK and Germany decreased quite significantly but more than likely change direction once brexit kicks in.

[onthesoi]

19 hours ago, Naam said:

don't put words in my mouth i never said or even thought of and keep up the good job of spreading ridiculous theories of governments investing in private companies to "shore up" their countries  

The current health of the German economy and the measures/policy that led them there are fact not theory.

 

Not sure why you're being deliberately obtuse over this, maybe you're having a bad hair day or angry that you did'nt understand my term 'shoring up, you asked me to clarify and provide examples, which I did in spades and provided references, so far you have provided nothing in the way of counter argument....other than saying its bad idea for banks to offer credit

Edited May 14, 2017 by onthesoi

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Brown was Chancellor of the Exchequer and responsible for fiscal policies in the UK. Greenspan was chairman of the Federal Reserve and responsible for monetary policies in the US. Those untutored in economics often fail to distinguish between fiscal and monetary policies but the distinction is crucial. PS, the water is slightly muddied by the Fed having employment as an added remit unlike the ECB or the BoE, but none of the central banks have economic strategy as their remit. Economic strategy is fiscal. PPS Before pointing out what is well documented it pays to actually understand what one is pointing at.

 

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

Thanks for pointing out your very limited understanding of what influences international finance. I suppose a result of Blair's dumbing down of the education system.

If something flies over one's head best to not look up. Just spin furiously. Or do we have a shy Conspiracy Theorist here? Certainly a few failed UKIPpers with all the CT equipment knocking about on some of these threads.

[Loaded]

I think we are at break point in the final set. Whose serve next?

[nauseus]

On 3/29/2017 at 0:58 PM, Grouse said:

So, the Brexiteers push for me to give a list of positives about the EU. I posted my first batch of 42. Too difficult for numpties I assume? I shall not bother posting the next batch ?

Hello Grouse,

 

I asked for help but finally found this myself. I have chosen blue for my replies and I had a new set of crayons for my birthday!

 

Overall, the importance of your points do not outweigh the importance of respecting the constitution of the UK, retaining sovereignty and controlling law-making. I suspect that many of the plus points listed would either exist, or be attainable, with or without the EU.  

 

= = = 

 

What did the EU ever do for us?

 

Here's 42 points to start with

 

These are other people’s ideas that I happen to agree with

 

Regret cannot use colour; you'll just have to muddle through....(Those crayons were expensive too - made in Germany!)

 

Freedom to live, work, retire anywhere in Europe – plenty of people doing this pre EU, perhaps not as freely though.

 

1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU – convenient but not critically important to the UK itself.

 

More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13 – nice but not critical.

 

3M British jobs linked to exports to EU – so if the UK was not in the EU there would be no jobs associated with Europe???

 

Stability for 476,000 British farmers – majority of British farmers voted out.

 

Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Workers' protection greatly enhanced in terms of safety, security, working hours, breaks, leave etc - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Ease of vacations 31M visits to EU countries in 2014 – nice but not critical.

 

Protection against black listed airlines - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

When visiting EU countries, UK citizens have the right to emergency health care – nice but not critical.

 

Consular protection in the absence of a UK Embassy – nice but not critical.

 

Consumer protection – quality and safety of products bought anywhere in EU - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

2-year protection by guarantee against faulty goods – ditto (above).

 

Roaming rates rip offs stopped - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Lower credit card fees – nice but not critical.

 

Cheaper flights – gimme a break.

 

Proper compensation when flights are delayed or cancelled – ditto.

 

Enhanced protection from terrorism, trafficking, paedophiles, cyber crime – look at the explosion in rape crime in northern Europe after Merkel opened the doors! Ditto above!

 

The European Arrest Warrant replaced long extradition procedures and enables the UK to extradite criminals wanted in other EU countries, and brings to justice criminals wanted in the UK who are hiding in other EU countries – and accept corpus juris?

 

Eurojust helps UK authorities work with other EU countries’ to tackle international organised crime such as drug smuggling and money laundering – EU not necessary for this.

 

Cross country coordination and crime fighting – EU not necessary for this.

 

The EU has helped secure peace among previously warring western European nations over the last 70 years – EU not the major reason, the US and NATO is.

 

It helped to consolidate democracy in Spain, Portugal, Greece and former Soviet bloc countries – and the Euro destroyed their economies!

 

EU has helped preserve peace in the Balkans since the end of the Balkans War – EU not the major reason, the US and NATO is. In fact the EU messed it up initially!

 

With the UN it now plays a leading role in conflict prevention, peacekeeping and democracy building – a leading role/ hmm?

 

71% of CBI members say EU has overall positive impact on their businesses – OK.

 

67% of SMEs say EU has overall positive impact on their businesses – not sure where that came from? Endless EU regulations only favour large multi-national corporations. Disagree.

 

CBI estimates NET annual benefit of 62B to 78B GBP per annum due to EU membership (4% - 5% of GDP) – CBI estimates have been rather erroneous.

 

44.6 of exports and 53.2% of imports are EU – how much that would change will depend on the result of the leaving negotiations – would you like your eggs boiled hard or soft chaps??

  

EU exports estimated by CEBR to contribute 187B to UK economy rising to 277B by 2030 – how much that would change will depend on the leaving negotiations. Nobody knows yet.

 

CEBR claims access to European energy, transport and digital service markets, combined with new global trade deals, could add £58 billion to the UK economy every year by 2030 – ditto.

 

FDI. American and Asian firms build factories in Britain because it is in the single market – ditto.

 

The EU has taken on multinational giants like Microsoft, Samsung and Toshiba for unfair competition. The UK would not be able to do this alone – if legally, why not?

 

Common rules for the common market make it unnecessary to have 28 sets of national regulations. CE and IEC have proved much more beneficial that the old kite mark – one set of rules does not necessarily benefit individual nations. The EU is not necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

Robin Niblett, Director of think-tank Chatham House, stated in a report published last year: “For a mid-sized country like the UK, which will never again be economically dominant either globally or regionally, and whose diplomatic and military resources are declining in relative terms, being a major player in a strong regional institution can offer a critical lever for international influence – the little influence over the German-dominated EU will reduce even more if we stay in.

 

As 28 democracies, and as the world’s biggest market, we are strong when we work together. Britain is represented in many international organisations in joint EU delegations – giving Britain more influence than it would have alone. The EU has played a major role in climate, world trade and development - ditto.

 

Barack Obama briefly alluded to the importance of the UK’s role in Europe in an interview with the BBC last year, in which he stated: “[Having the UK in the European Union] gives us much greater confidence about the strength of the transatlantic union and is part of the cornerstone of institutions built after [the] second world war that has made the world safer and more prosperous – I think we can scrub this one now!

 

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso argued in 2014: “The largest, proudest European nation cannot hope to shape globalisation – or even retain marginal relevance - by itself. It is only together that we have the weight to influence the big picture.” – I think this or a similar line was the main thrust of the remain argument!

The EU will remain too disjointed to accomplish big things, too many different intersts.

 

Through commonly agreed EU standards, national Governments have achieved improvements to the quality of air, rivers and beaches. Good for Britain and good for Britons holidaying or living abroad! And the UK would not have done this alone by now?

 

The CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) in recent years has concentrated more on the environment and protection of wildlife and habitat. This is doing much to protect and recover the British landscape. Whereas historically, hedgerows were pulled up to create prairie like fields, this has now been reversed to the betterment of all. This is not possible without EU grant to farmers – as far as I read the farmers sat the CAP is a disaster. And it’s our money anyway!

 

The UK is the second largest beneficiary of EU research funds, and the British Government expected future EU research funding to constitute a vital source of income for our world-leading universities and companies – it’s our money anyway!

 

EU regional development funding has been a major boon for UK regions such as Cornwall, Wales and the NE – it’s our money anyway!

 

Now some will disagree with many of these points! – see all above lol!!

 

I doubt you will disagree with all of them though! – one or two were OK.

 

If so, more information here.....

 

 http://johnmccormick.eu/benefits-of-the-european-union/

– ah now I see where you got all this from! Oh well!.

 

Beer O'Clock!

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Hello Grouse,

 

I asked for help but finally found this myself. I have chosen blue for my replies and I had a new set of crayons for my birthday!

 

Overall, the importance of your points do not outweigh the importance of respecting the constitution of the UK, retaining sovereignty and controlling law-making. I suspect that many of the plus points listed would either exist, or be attainable, with or without the EU.  

 

= = = 

 

What did the EU ever do for us?

 

Here's 42 points to start with

 

These are other people’s ideas that I happen to agree with

 

Regret cannot use colour; you'll just have to muddle through....(Those crayons were expensive too - made in Germany!)

 

Freedom to live, work, retire anywhere in Europe – plenty of people doing this pre EU, perhaps not as freely though.

 

1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU – convenient but not critically important to the UK itself.

 

More than 14,500 UK students took part in the European Union’s Erasmus student exchange scheme in 2012-13 – nice but not critical.

 

3M British jobs linked to exports to EU – so if the UK was not in the EU there would be no jobs associated with Europe???

 

Stability for 476,000 British farmers – majority of British farmers voted out.

 

Equal pay for men and women is enshrined in EU law, as are bans on discrimination by age, race or sexual orientation. This benefits Britain and British people who live in other EU countries - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Workers' protection greatly enhanced in terms of safety, security, working hours, breaks, leave etc - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Ease of vacations 31M visits to EU countries in 2014 – nice but not critical.

 

Protection against black listed airlines - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

When visiting EU countries, UK citizens have the right to emergency health care – nice but not critical.

 

Consular protection in the absence of a UK Embassy – nice but not critical.

 

Consumer protection – quality and safety of products bought anywhere in EU - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

2-year protection by guarantee against faulty goods – ditto (above).

 

Roaming rates rip offs stopped - this would likely be law in the UK by now anyway.

 

Lower credit card fees – nice but not critical.

 

Cheaper flights – gimme a break.

 

Proper compensation when flights are delayed or cancelled – ditto.

 

Enhanced protection from terrorism, trafficking, paedophiles, cyber crime – look at the explosion in rape crime in northern Europe after Merkel opened the doors! Ditto above!

 

The European Arrest Warrant replaced long extradition procedures and enables the UK to extradite criminals wanted in other EU countries, and brings to justice criminals wanted in the UK who are hiding in other EU countries – and accept corpus juris?

 

Eurojust helps UK authorities work with other EU countries’ to tackle international organised crime such as drug smuggling and money laundering – EU not necessary for this.

 

Cross country coordination and crime fighting – EU not necessary for this.

 

The EU has helped secure peace among previously warring western European nations over the last 70 years – EU not the major reason, the US and NATO is.

 

It helped to consolidate democracy in Spain, Portugal, Greece and former Soviet bloc countries – and the Euro destroyed their economies!

 

EU has helped preserve peace in the Balkans since the end of the Balkans War – EU not the major reason, the US and NATO is. In fact the EU messed it up initially!

 

With the UN it now plays a leading role in conflict prevention, peacekeeping and democracy building – a leading role/ hmm?

 

71% of CBI members say EU has overall positive impact on their businesses – OK.

 

67% of SMEs say EU has overall positive impact on their businesses – not sure where that came from? Endless EU regulations only favour large multi-national corporations. Disagree.

 

CBI estimates NET annual benefit of 62B to 78B GBP per annum due to EU membership (4% - 5% of GDP) – CBI estimates have been rather erroneous.

 

44.6 of exports and 53.2% of imports are EU – how much that would change will depend on the result of the leaving negotiations – would you like your eggs boiled hard or soft chaps??

  

EU exports estimated by CEBR to contribute 187B to UK economy rising to 277B by 2030 – how much that would change will depend on the leaving negotiations. Nobody knows yet.

 

CEBR claims access to European energy, transport and digital service markets, combined with new global trade deals, could add £58 billion to the UK economy every year by 2030 – ditto.

 

FDI. American and Asian firms build factories in Britain because it is in the single market – ditto.

 

The EU has taken on multinational giants like Microsoft, Samsung and Toshiba for unfair competition. The UK would not be able to do this alone – if legally, why not?

 

Common rules for the common market make it unnecessary to have 28 sets of national regulations. CE and IEC have proved much more beneficial that the old kite mark – one set of rules does not necessarily benefit individual nations. The EU is not necessary for this to happen.

 

 

 

Robin Niblett, Director of think-tank Chatham House, stated in a report published last year: “For a mid-sized country like the UK, which will never again be economically dominant either globally or regionally, and whose diplomatic and military resources are declining in relative terms, being a major player in a strong regional institution can offer a critical lever for international influence – the little influence over the German-dominated EU will reduce even more if we stay in.

 

As 28 democracies, and as the world’s biggest market, we are strong when we work together. Britain is represented in many international organisations in joint EU delegations – giving Britain more influence than it would have alone. The EU has played a major role in climate, world trade and development - ditto.

 

Barack Obama briefly alluded to the importance of the UK’s role in Europe in an interview with the BBC last year, in which he stated: “[Having the UK in the European Union] gives us much greater confidence about the strength of the transatlantic union and is part of the cornerstone of institutions built after [the] second world war that has made the world safer and more prosperous – I think we can scrub this one now!

 

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso argued in 2014: “The largest, proudest European nation cannot hope to shape globalisation – or even retain marginal relevance - by itself. It is only together that we have the weight to influence the big picture.” – I think this or a similar line was the main thrust of the remain argument!

The EU will remain too disjointed to accomplish big things, too many different intersts.

 

Through commonly agreed EU standards, national Governments have achieved improvements to the quality of air, rivers and beaches. Good for Britain and good for Britons holidaying or living abroad! And the UK would not have done this alone by now?

 

The CAP (Common Agricultural Policy) in recent years has concentrated more on the environment and protection of wildlife and habitat. This is doing much to protect and recover the British landscape. Whereas historically, hedgerows were pulled up to create prairie like fields, this has now been reversed to the betterment of all. This is not possible without EU grant to farmers – as far as I read the farmers sat the CAP is a disaster. And it’s our money anyway!

 

The UK is the second largest beneficiary of EU research funds, and the British Government expected future EU research funding to constitute a vital source of income for our world-leading universities and companies – it’s our money anyway!

 

EU regional development funding has been a major boon for UK regions such as Cornwall, Wales and the NE – it’s our money anyway!

 

Now some will disagree with many of these points! – see all above lol!!

 

I doubt you will disagree with all of them though! – one or two were OK.

 

If so, more information here.....

 

 http://johnmccormick.eu/benefits-of-the-european-union/

– ah now I see where you got all this from! Oh well!.

 

Beer O'Clock!

 

Thank you for taking the time to comment!

 

The only point I would take issue with is NATO v EU for security. IMHO the EU has been useful at bonding EU countries together and avoiding internal conflict and nationalistic wars. It has also been good at applying heavy duty soft power through economic might. Putin IS aware of EU sanctions...

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-2017-james-heappey-tory-mp-referendum-scottish-national-party-a7735311.html

 

Con party candidate even swears at kids. Ex army.....

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-2017-james-heappey-tory-mp-referendum-scottish-national-party-a7735311.html

 

Con party candidate even swears at kids. Ex army.....

As my dear old granny used to say, that nationalist lot would make a nun swear. You think by being ex army explains his behaviour?

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

As my dear old granny used to say, that nationalist lot would make a nun swear.

It's the girl's fault for being born to an uppity sweaty! Possible headlines in tomorrow's Express: VICIOUS Separatist Daughter of SCOTSNAT Hilariously Slapped Down by Brave TORY MP ?

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It's the girl's fault for being born to an uppity sweaty! Possible headlines in tomorrow's Express: VICIOUS Separatist Daughter of SCOTSNAT Hilariously Slapped Down by Brave TORY MP ?

Were you there, do you believe everything you read, or everything you want to believe?

[RuamRudy]

Were you there, do you believe everything you read, or everything you want to believe?

You are a bit quick with that trigger finger - I hope you aren't getting caught up in all that BritNats bile. It seems to be in the increase.

As for the gallant prospective MP, the article states that he has sent the girl a written apology, so I guess there may be a ring of truth to it all. Maybe it is you who doesn't want to believe?

[Flustered]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

You are a bit quick with that trigger finger - I hope you aren't getting caught up in all that BritNats bile. It seems to be in the increase.
 

I never understood why it is OK to be a lefty activst hell bent on bringing down the Government of the day but if you feel pride n your country and stand up for it against those who run it down, you are considered racist, homophobic, ageist and shouted down at every opportunity by those on the left.

 

Not saying this is you Rudy, but you opened the door with your BritNats dig. There isn't even a definition of a BritNat.

[Grouse]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

As my dear old granny used to say, that nationalist lot would make a nun swear. You think by being ex army explains his behaviour?

Well, as I have learnt on here, our military types are very sensitive to language so I was rather shocked ?

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Well, as I have learnt on here, our military types are very sensitive to language so I was rather shocked ?

The "military types" are certainly not sensitive to language, but more sensitive to you. You cannot wait to have a dig at our armed forces and remember if it wasn't for our "military types" you couldn't spew out the bile you do. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by vogie

[Scott]

I strongly suggest you keep the discussion civil.  

 

[Grouse]

For clarity, I have nothing against British armed forces whatever. In fact I believe them to be the most professional in the world.

 

My comment was a witticism; a gentle dig in the ribs.

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

Thank you for taking the time to comment!

 

The only point I would take issue with is NATO v EU for security. IMHO the EU has been useful at bonding EU countries together and avoiding internal conflict and nationalistic wars. It has also been good at applying heavy duty soft power through economic might. Putin IS aware of EU sanctions...

OK good then and fair point.

 

I missed your 42 item post before and could not find it easily. This OP possibly needs chapters, verses and a "find" function!.

Page 264, Oh Me, Oh My! Just as well I don't have a day job.