May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't think anyone disagrees that the open border policy was one of the major factors for the brexit vote?

 

The disagreements arise when this is equated with racist, as per the headline of the first article.

The UK is not part of the open borders policy. It is subject to the freedom of movement which comes with restrictions that the UK appears not to apply. 

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Exactly. Just look at how so many member countries took matters into their own hands and flouted the Schengen border rules last year. The UK just needed to grow a pair and refuse to comply with the EU's worst excesses and decisions...  rules that don't work either break down or get reformed if enough members rebel against them. EU reform is surely on the way, and Britain has completely isolated itself.

Did anything change as a result of countries flouting eu policies?

 

The EU has made it v clear that it has no intention of changing any of its most disliked policies.  I had vaguely hoped that the EU would reform itself following the brexit vote, giving uk voters a good reason to change their minds and actually support a reformed eu!  That is clearly not going to happen .

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Exactly. Just look at how so many member countries took matters into their own hands and flouted the Schengen border rules last year. The UK just needed to grow a pair and refuse to comply with the EU's worst excesses and decisions...  rules that don't work either break down or get reformed if enough members rebel against them. EU reform is surely on the way, and Britain has completely isolated itself.

You rebel you!

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

The UK just needed to grow a pair and refuse to comply with the EU's worst excesses and decisions..

I thought this thread is about TM  how can she do what you suggest. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't think anyone disagrees that the open border policy was one of the major factors for the brexit vote?

 

The disagreements arise when this is equated with racist, as per the headline of the first article.

It's about how foreigners feel when they come to live here. To make other Europeans feel unwanted and disliked is embarrassing. And to treat the Poles that way is shameful.

 

what open borders? We're not in Schegen. Our Border controls are crap but who's fault is that? There are also plenty of legal restrictions that could have been put in place.

 

on Farming Today it was reported that fruit and veg growers are finding it difficult to get workers now from the EU. 70% will move partly or fully to the Southern EU and we will end up importing most fruit and veg. EU workers are less interested in coming here because  the GBP is weak compared to the Euro, England's reputation for racism, and dreadful working conditions.

 

I feel really proud to British this morning. ?

[onthesoi]

4 hours ago, evadgib said:

The election was necessary in order to neuter the SNP and avoid direct rule of NI from Westminster. The fact that it backfired in England took everyone by surprise and should be a wake up call re PR, mandatory participation inc 'no!' voters, and a secure govt gateway enabling global votes from the likes of us when that '15 year' lark is binned.

 

Your analysis is nonsense. 

 

The SNP and NI are not that important when it comes to Westminster politics. 

I don't even know what you mean by "avoid direct rule of NI from Westminster".

Can you point out where TM mentions either in her GE announcement?

 

 

Btw, it was a UK election not an English election

And, not everyone was surprised at the result, for eg Nicola Sturgeon way back in April described it as: “huge political miscalculation”.

Not to mention the Corbyn upswing in the weeks before the election, as the time approached it wasn't obvious she was going to win never mind secure her intended mandate.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by onthesoi

[AlexRich]

10 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You need to look at the Thatcher years, and her rather brutal, short-termist method of dealing with the rampant trades union militancy that she inherited.

Thatcher would never have left the EU ... she was a pragmatist. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-racism-immigrant-prejudice-major-factor-leave-vote-win-study-a7801676.html

 

So, anti immigration was a major factor in voting leave. Despite the howls of the Brexiteers ignorance about EU immigrants was indeed influential.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-polish-family-leave-avoid-betting-card-negotiations-talks-theresa-may-a7799441.html

 

And this makes me ashamed and embarrassed.

 

84% of NHS EU workers set to leave before Brexit.

 

Time to reverse all this nonsense and ignore the numbskull Brexiteers.

If reading The Independent upsets you so much you could try reading something else?  

 

Immigration was obviously a factor but only remainders howl about it.

 

Q. Are the eastern Europeans in the UK for love of the country(1) or money(2).

A. is 2 - so don't feel too embarrassed about it!

 

It is the EU elite that think most Europeans are numbskulls, including me and remainders like you!

 

 

 

 

  

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

Your first paragraph is spot on. Could it be that British management and business owners have not been up to the mark. Maybe a good time to get out of this undemocratic so called Union. A completely fresh start,perhaps bumpy at the start, but we would have the satisfaction of knowing, we would be leaving future generations with a successful and independent country. The alternative to being shackled to the future chaos of the federation of Europe.

Successful countries are not separating with trading partners, they are working closer together ... ASEAN for example. If the UK put in an effort to trade further afield they could do so, and retain the benefits of remaining in the single market ... you would prefer to leave future generations with debt and isolation. 

[pitrevie]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Thatcher would never have left the EU ... she was a pragmatist. 

She would never have held a referendum she made it very clear that she was opposed to them.

[lamyai3]

42 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I thought this thread is about TM  how can she do what you suggest. 

I was talking about what might have been - hence my use of the past tense. In any event May is now a lame duck. 

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If reading The Independent upsets you so much you could try reading something else?  

 

Immigration was obviously a factor but only remainders howl about it.

 

Q. Are the eastern Europeans in the UK for love of the country(1) or money(2).

A. is 2 - so don't feel too embarrassed about it!

 

It is the EU elite that think most Europeans are numbskulls, including me and remainders like you!

 

 

 

 

  

There are millions of people around the world with British ancestry who are proud citizens of their own country ... as the children of Eastern European immigrants would be of ours ... there are plenty of people with Italian, French, Cypriot, Chinese, etc surnames who are British, and love the country. People of course come to work and raise their standard of living, and many of them stay because they love the country and are raising a family. And those families become part of our society.

 

This process has been going on for centuries ... it's only in 2016 that certain morons seemed to think that this was some great threat to our nation.

 

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's about how foreigners feel when they come to live here. To make other Europeans feel unwanted and disliked is embarrassing. And to treat the Poles that way is shameful.

 

what open borders? We're not in Schegen. Our Border controls are crap but who's fault is that? There are also plenty of legal restrictions that could have been put in place.

 

on Farming Today it was reported that fruit and veg growers are finding it difficult to get workers now from the EU. 70% will move partly or fully to the Southern EU and we will end up importing most fruit and veg. EU workers are less interested in coming here because  the GBP is weak compared to the Euro, England's reputation for racism, and dreadful working conditions.

 

I feel really proud to British this morning. ?

Few care about those EU workers offered well paid jobs in (shortage sectors) within the uk - other than getting annoyed as to why these skill shortages have been allowed to happen.

 

Those without skills that have only driven down wages for the lowest paid  - which has consequently moved up 'the chain' as middle income workers find their salaries have stagnated.

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Few care about those EU workers offered well paid jobs in (shortage sectors) within the uk - other than getting annoyed as to why these skill shortages have been allowed to happen.

 

Those without skills that have only driven down wages for the lowest paid  - which has consequently moved up 'the chain' as middle income workers find their salaries have stagnated.

 

Solution is to wreck your economy ... have skill shortages that you are unable to fill (as the skilled leave first) and put the fruit and veg people out of business (as there are plenty of UK jobs so no UK person will take them) so that we can buy all out fruit and veg from Europe. That's a plan.

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If reading The Independent upsets you so much you could try reading something else?  

 

Immigration was obviously a factor but only remainders howl about it.

 

Q. Are the eastern Europeans in the UK for love of the country(1) or money(2).

A. is 2 - so don't feel too embarrassed about it!

 

It is the EU elite that think most Europeans are numbskulls, including me and remainders like you!

 

 

 

 

  

So remainer, remoaner, is not enough? I'm now to be a remainder, a bit left over or the part left to come? I'll take the latter!

 

Look this Polish family came over 14 years ago and put down roots. Good jobs, tax payers. What on earth is wrong with that? I did something similar when I went to live in Denmark. Shameful that we make respectable people feel unwanted.

 

As for seasonal workers, I can see it could be fun for young foreigners to come over for the season. What's wrong with that? Growers can't find replacements. Why is that? Our youth are lazy? Or we want to pay low prices for salads. You remember what a salad is I assume?

[AlexRich]

The Scottish parliament and the Lords will stymy Brexit legislation ... unless she amends 'hard' Brexit ... looks like it's all going to the dogs. Shame.

[dick dasterdly]

Must add that I'm shocked at BBC World's obvious bias !

 

The EU is pressing to secure the future of those EU people already in other EU countries?!  No mention that May tried to agree this previously, but was rebuffed by the EU?

 

The Queen is wearing a hat showing her support for the EU??

 

etc. etc......

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Few care about those EU workers offered well paid jobs in (shortage sectors) within the uk - other than getting annoyed as to why these skill shortages have been allowed to happen.

 

Those without skills that have only driven down wages for the lowest paid  - which has consequently moved up 'the chain' as middle income workers find their salaries have stagnated.

So why are the growers not being swamped with English applicants?

 

Don't we have a minimum wage? Works out about 20k per annum? Not much but worth a youth getting out of bed for?

 

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Must add that I'm shocked at BBC World's obvious bias !

 

The EU is pressing to secure the future of those EU people already in other EU countries?!  No mention that May tried to agree this previously, but was rebuffed by the EU?

 

The Queen is wearing a hat showing her support for the EU??

 

etc. etc......

And horror of horrors, farmers are going to have to employ UK workers as its become more difficult to import mass cheap labour (living in provided huts) to increase their profits!

 

Edit - And the bbc is still trying to pretend May is the stumbling block when it comes to the resident eu migrants .

Edited June 22, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

I hear the young royals are now not too keen to take on the "top job".

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40363063

 

The country is rapidly going down hill. Our friends are embarrassed and sorry for us ?

 

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Grouse

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

Your analysis is nonsense.

You are nonetheless entitled to my opinion.

 

Quote

I don't even know what you mean by "avoid direct rule of NI from Westminster".

Can you point out where TM mentions either in her GE announcement?

If you missed it first time around it'll be released in 2047 under the '30 year' rule.

 

Quote

Btw, it was a UK election not an English election 

Patronising tw...  If you're going to have a pop please do so with humour and with the understanding that intellect exists in both camps. The old "There* ficker than us" routine is wearing mighty thin, especially as they were in the majority last year...

 

(*was necessary/deliberate!)

 

Quote

And, not everyone was surprised at the result, for eg Nicola Sturgeon way back in April described it as: “huge political miscalculation”.

More were unseated in her party than at Aintree in April, inc Salmond and Robertson.

 

Yeah, she saw that coming 

Edited June 22, 2017 by evadgib

[rockingrobin]

16 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Must add that I'm shocked at BBC World's obvious bias !

 

The EU is pressing to secure the future of those EU people already in other EU countries?!  No mention that May tried to agree this previously, but was rebuffed by the EU?

 

The Queen is wearing a hat showing her support for the EU??

 

etc. etc......

Here is the EU position on citizens

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

 

I have not seen what the UK proposed, but have heard what could only be described as rumours , so will not post here.

If as you say T.May wanted to settle the issue earlier, the negotations on this issue will be short . Of course as part of the referendum result it was the will of the people to grant EU citizens in the UK the same rights as they currently possess

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, evadgib said:

You are nonetheless entitled to my opinion.

 

If you missed it first time around it'll be released in 2047 under the '30 year' rule.

 

Patronising tw...  If you're going to have a pop please do so with humour and with the understanding that intellect exists in both camps. The old "There* ficker than us" routine is wearing mighty thin! 

 

(*was necessary/deliberate!)

 

More were unseated in her party than at Aintree in April, inc Salmond and Robertson.

 

Yeah, she saw that coming 

And this how she gets to bite back!

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15362606.New_blow_for_Theresa_May_over_fears_Holyrood_will_block_Brexit/

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Solution is to wreck your economy ... have skill shortages that you are unable to fill (as the skilled leave first) and put the fruit and veg people out of business (as there are plenty of UK jobs so no UK person will take them) so that we can buy all out fruit and veg from Europe. That's a plan.

Why on earth would the skilled that have been offered well paid jobs before leaving their own countries,  decide to leave??

 

We've done the veg/fruit pickers discussion to death in other threads.....  In short, it used to be done by poor brit families that needed to supplement their income - until farmers found a cheaper source of labour.....

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And this how she gets to bite back!

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15362606.New_blow_for_Theresa_May_over_fears_Holyrood_will_block_Brexit/

Can you please put a health warning on these posts, Grousey? On reading the article, I laughed so hard, I almost did myself an injustice!

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

And this how she gets to bite back!

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15362606.New_blow_for_Theresa_May_over_fears_Holyrood_will_block_Brexit/

Blimey! I think the phrase rhymes with..

Edited June 22, 2017 by evadgib

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Here is the EU position on citizens

 

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/position-paper-essential-principles-citizens-rights_en

 

I have not seen what the UK proposed, but have heard what could only be described as rumours , so will not post here.

If as you say T.May wanted to settle the issue earlier, the negotations on this issue will be short . Of course as part of the referendum result it was the will of the people to grant EU citizens in the UK the same rights as they currently possess

In short - the EU position boils down to the free movement policy?

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, Grouse said:

So remainer, remoaner, is not enough? I'm now to be a remainder, a bit left over or the part left to come? I'll take the latter!

 

Look this Polish family came over 14 years ago and put down roots. Good jobs, tax payers. What on earth is wrong with that? I did something similar when I went to live in Denmark. Shameful that we make respectable people feel unwanted.

 

As for seasonal workers, I can see it could be fun for young foreigners to come over for the season. What's wrong with that? Growers can't find replacements. Why is that? Our youth are lazy? Or we want to pay low prices for salads. You remember what a salad is I assume?

Typo, sorry remainer, but still a lot better than the names used by others (numbskulls/morons etc) today.

 

Nothing wrong with what this Polish chap has done except that he is assuming that he won't be able to continue on with his family in the UK - I think that he will, as will any EU people already established there - maybe he had already decided to repatriate, with a story featured in your favourite paper, who knows? 

 

Seasonal workers should be encouraged - they don't have to be immigrants but just work and stay temporarily - it is not a new concept! It looks like the UK youth are relatively lazy overall, yes. Students should work at least part of the summers and make some money for themselves - many certainly used to - that might teach them the value of cash and it's far too easy for them to fall into debt now. They can still have a shag in the haystack to add to their salad days memoirs.

Edited June 22, 2017 by nauseus

[dick dasterdly]

40 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The Scottish parliament and the Lords will stymy Brexit legislation ... unless she amends 'hard' Brexit ... looks like it's all going to the dogs. Shame.

"The Scottish parliament and the Lords will stymy Brexit legislation"

 

Suprise, suprise !

[Khun Han]

51 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Few care about those EU workers offered well paid jobs in (shortage sectors) within the uk - other than getting annoyed as to why these skill shortages have been allowed to happen.

 

Those without skills that have only driven down wages for the lowest paid  - which has consequently moved up 'the chain' as middle income workers find their salaries have stagnated.

 

But according to the Germans it's all worth it because Polish plumbers have rescued our decaying bathrooms.