May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Orac]

Though export figures may be up due to the drop in sterling there is clearly something worrying about the UK economy as a whole

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/30/household-saving-drops-fresh-low-uk-growth-engine-cools/


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[nauseus]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Some of the forum Brexiteers are a laugh a minute.

Er  I don't think Grouse is a Brexit fan somehow.

 

But a classic song, Ray was the lead (rhymes with May) but Dave was always there.

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, Orac said:

Though export figures may be up due to the drop in sterling there is clearly something worrying about the UK economy as a whole

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/30/household-saving-drops-fresh-low-uk-growth-engine-cools/


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

There is clearly something worrying about a lot of economies as a whole! Or hole?

 

There's a hole in my budget dear Juncker, dear Juncker.

There's a hole in my budget .

Dear Juncker, there's a hole.

TGIF 

 

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

And all of the remainers are a constant joke.

 

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There is clearly something worrying about a lot of economies as a whole! Or hole?

 

There's a hole in my budget dear Juncker, dear Juncker.

There's a hole in my budget .

Dear Juncker, there's a hole.

TGIF 

 

As you were saying.........

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   Please keep it civil.  

[Khun Han]

The beeb shamelessly flagging up a load of anti-brexit tripe from an Osborne ally identified and removed previously by the government:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40461496

 

The beeb is really starting to embarrass itself now. But I suppose the decision-makers there think the majority are too stupid to see through it's shenanigans .

[pitrevie]

10 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Disagree Germany is very much the EU Brexit topic are young or some-mic they still would like to dominate the world as England did one time and their very jealous still,  the 1st & 2nd world war didn't go well for them so how about a financial world war so to speak, get it.  

Are you related to Khun An by any chance?

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, Flustered said:

So nothing about ruling out a bi lateral agreement then and who mentioned a quote? Your words not mine.

 

In your next link the source was "close to the White House" not the White House as in your "quote".

 

"The White House has ruled out a bilateral agreement any time soon" is a clear statement from you that I cannot find anywhere on Google or any other search engine.

 

Just your imagination as usual or have you a link?

Of course you can claim that anyone other than Trump is only close to the White House, even Wilbur Ross.

 

"His comments, made to the Wall Street Journal, chime with recent reports suggesting Donald Trump sees establishing a free trade agreement with Europe as more important than establishing a free trade agreement with post-Brexit Britain – contrary to claims made by Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson earlier this year. "

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/white-house-trade-deal-uk-low-priority-brexit-a7706681.html

 

At the end of the day it is all posturing from Liam Fox, in fact there is every possibility that he has shot himself in the foot as he has effectively admitted that the current arrangement would need to be renegotiated, something that up until now has been a grey area.

If any trade deal ever comes about it will be to the benefit of the US and the UK will have lost the advantage of the current arrangement.

 

"To carry out his strategy, the President is appointing the toughest and smartest to his trade team, ensuring that Americans have the best negotiators possible. For too long, trade deals have been negotiated by, and for, members of the Washington establishment. President Trump will ensure that on his watch, trade policies will be implemented by and for the people, and will put America first."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/trade-deals-working-all-americans

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, Orac said:

Though export figures may be up due to the drop in sterling there is clearly something worrying about the UK economy as a whole

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/30/household-saving-drops-fresh-low-uk-growth-engine-cools/


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

If you stick your head in the sand it may go away.

 

"The ONS figures show that the UK economy only expanded because there are now more people in the country than there were three months ago. GDP per capita in the quarter did not grow at all during the quarter."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-economy-world-worst-performing-advanced-countries-state-g7-european-union-a7817046.html

 

[nontabury]

On June 29, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Flustered said:

It's all beginning to come out of the woodwork now. No wonder the EU is trying desperately to screw the UK.

 

 On the Euro News on TV today, European budget commissioner Günther Oettinger said the EU may have to make a 16% cut to it's budget due to the UK leaving.

 

I wonder  why the BBC are not reporting these interesting bits of news.

 

And then we have

 

"Brexit could blow a €20 billion black hole in the EU's budget"

http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-fears-brexit-will-create-20-billion-budget-black-hole-2017-6

Please stop quoting facts,it's very confusing for the Remoaners.

Edited July 1, 2017 by nontabury

[pitrevie]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Please stop quoting facts,it's very confusing for the Remoaners.

Since you are so interested in facts I will repeat an earlier post.

 

Philip Hammond conceded that Brexit will blow a £59bn black hole in the public finances. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) announced that there would be a cumulative £122bn of extra borrowing over the next five years, with £59bn of that as a direct result of Brexit. George Osborne was expecting to achieve a surplus of £11bn on the public finances by 2020-21; instead, the OBR is now forecasting a £21bn deficit – and public debt is expected to peak at more than 90% of GDP.

 

It must be terrible for the remaining 27 countries of the EU having to deal with a 20 billion Euro black hole when they could go it alone and have a 59 billion pound black hole or to compare directly 67 billion Euro black hole.

[nontabury]

15 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Disagree Germany is very much the EU Brexit topic are young or some-mic they still would like to dominate the world as England did one time and their very jealous still,  the 1st & 2nd world war didn't go well for them so how about a financial world war so to speak, get it.  

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

So you would prefer the Chinese over the EU. No comment.

[Kwasaki]

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Are you related to Khun An by any chance?

I'd like to be related 'Aum' -  Pachrapa Chaichua    who the 'ell is 'An'.

[Kwasaki]

35 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

That is just the sort of thing l try to express about my EU feelings,  don't understand Greece they should of stuffed them, they weren't treated well before by them and there not being treated well again by the leader of the club.

 

l can understand the mentality of a club been thrown out of a lot of em    l just don't know why people can't see Germany's role in it,  there not far off like the English use to be " Totally Ruthless " comes to mind. 

 

 

 

 

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

That is just the sort of thing l try to express about my EU feelings,  don't understand Greece they should of stuffed them, they weren't treated well before by them and there not being treated well again by the leader of the club.

 

l can understand the mentality of a club been thrown out of a lot of em    l just don't know why people can't see Germany's role in it,  there not far off like the English use to be " Totally Ruthless " comes to mind. 

 

 

 

 

I agree,  I really cannot understand Germans not wanting finance the Greeks with their rampant tax evasion and paying themselves generous social provisions, early retirements, pensions etc.

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

Why would China want to see or even encourage  Greece to leave the EU, considering the silk rd project and the EU being China's largest trading partner at that time

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

Interestingly Yanis Varoufakis the ex Greek finance minister, in his book and in numerous interviews. Mentions that when he was in office, there was a plan for Greece to Exit the EU, defaulting on the European Banks, mainly German and French. The Chinese ambassador had brokered a plan for Chine to support Greece, by investing in Greece and buying large quantities of Greek Bonds etc,. 

An  agreement had been made,then the Chinese Ambassador informed the Greek government that after a call from Berlin, they the Chinese government had been persuaded not to go through with the agreement.

 

Actually -- this is quoting me - not nontabury - naughty boy :) 

The facts are valid and demonstrated the power Germany has over the EU and the euro,   The recovery was only necessary because of the way the EU was desperate for Greece to join the EU and how the Germans waived the financial requirements by accepting the the figures presented by Greece with their application.  The figures had been massaged heavily and did not reflect the Greek situation at all.  The consequent, inevitable "bovver"  created a hole in the Greek economy that opened up the failings of how the euro had been established and forced the EU to actually do something or start to hurt Germany.  France seems to have been relatively innocent in the "turning a blind eye" scenariion of the Greek accession to membership, but the hole was too big and Greece had to be "taught a lesson".  As it was, the knock-on effects badly hurt Italy, Spain and Ireland -- there wasn't enough paint to cover the cracks.  Meantime the Germany led the way in trying to get the euro onto a better footing, something more akin to a real currency.  That process continues but needs all the rest of the federailsation of the EU to happen as well.  It's all part of the way the EU has failed to "reform from within".

[jpinx]

10 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Why would China want to see or even encourage  Greece to leave the EU, considering the silk rd project and the EU being China's largest trading partner at that time

You and nontabury didn't read the book?   I mentioned why -- it was because the  chinese had just bought a large trading facility in Greece.....

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by jpinx

[Kwasaki]

13 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I agree,  I really cannot understand Germans not wanting finance the Greeks with their rampant tax evasion and paying themselves generous social provisions, early retirements, pensions etc.

Like it,  so why didn't they let China try ?  

[rockingrobin]

12 minutes ago, jpinx said:

You and nontabury didn't read the book?   I mentioned why -- it was because the  chinese had just bought a large trading facility in Greece.....

 

That may be so but doesnt expain the political and economic intentions of the chinese and the silk road project

At the China - EU summit the chinese representative 

 

When Li was asked if China was willing to provide loans or other financial aid to help Greece during the press conference in Brussels, he responded by restating China’s preference for “a united Europe, and prosperous European Union, and a strong euro.” He continued: “As for the issue of Greek debt, in principle it is an internal affair of Europe. Having said that, whether Greece would stay within Europe is not only a question that concerns Europe but also concerns China and Europe… that is why China has made its own efforts to help Greece overcome the debt crisis.”

Edited July 1, 2017 by rockingrobin

[pitrevie]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Like it,  so why didn't they let China try ?  

I think its something to do with having to pay back money you borrowed, an old fashioned concept I must admit.

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

That may be so but doesnt expain the political and economic intentions of the chinese and the silk road project

The Chinese have a culture and history of "conquest by trade" and the Silk Road project was just another way of forwarding that.  Look at what they're doing by financing massive infrastructure Projects all over the developing world.  They gain a foothold, a strong chinese presence in potential markets, and they gain enormous influence of the way countries develop. In the end, the country finds itself beholden to the Chinese for the money and expertise needed to operate their own power, transport or whatever facilities that have been built under their auspices. 

[rockingrobin]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

The Chinese have a culture and history of "conquest by trade" and the Silk Road project was just another way of forwarding that.  Look at what they're doing by financing massive infrastructure Projects all over the developing world.  They gain a foothold, a strong chinese presence in potential markets, and they gain enormous influence of the way countries develop. In the end, the country finds itself beholden to the Chinese for the money and expertise needed to operate their own power, transport or whatever facilities that have been built under their auspices. 

But again you fail to address the issue, why would China encourage a Greek EU exit, considering the political and economic ties between themselves and the EU

[dick dasterdly]

21 hours ago, sandyf said:

Media hype. At no time did the EU ever say what would have to be paid. The figures mentioned were a possible level of debt and the media chose to ignore that there would be reimbursements involved. It was not in David Davis's interest to tell people that there would be money coming back from the EU.

An EU financial spokesman stated in an interview that the final figure was likely to be in the order of 40 Billion but could be as low as 25 as at that point in time they had not completed the reimbursement accounts, only the debt. It is fairly obvious that 100Bn makes a better headline than 25. 

IIRC, it was those supporting remain who posted these news stories re. the amount 'owed' - as evidence supporting their cause.

 

The 60bn that increased to 100bn came from EU sources, and the 'quotes' were also carried by UK newspapers supporting remain - so its a 'bit much' to now try to pretend it wasn't used as scare tactics by the remain side!

Edited July 1, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[Kwasaki]

25 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I think its something to do with having to pay back money you borrowed, an old fashioned concept I must admit.

My take is they should not have let Greece join they don't fit and l think there's other that don't fit the club too, there getting fined or something.

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

IIRC, it was those supporting remain who posted these news stories re. the amount 'owed' - as evidence supporting their cause.

 

The 60bn that increased to 100bn came from EU sources, and the 'quotes' were also carried by UK newspapers supporting remain - so its a 'bit much' to now try to pretend it wasn't used as scare tactics by the remain side!

I hope that fence you are sitting on is FR or A2 rated?

 

"Sitting on the fence" is a common idiom used in English to describe one's neutrality or hesitance to choose between two sides in an argument or a competition, or inability to decide due to lack of courage.^[1] 

[jpinx]

24 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

But again you fail to address the issue, why would China encourage a Greek EU exit, considering the political and economic ties between themselves and the EU

It depends on how you read the inscrutable Chinese thought processes.  Were they encouraging a greek exit, or were they gaining a solid toe-hold in the EU via the purchase of the main port and a supporting "loan"?  As I said - their culture is conquest by trade.....

[Kwasaki]

11 minutes ago, jpinx said:

It depends on how you read the inscrutable Chinese thought processes.  Were they encouraging a greek exit, or were they gaining a solid toe-hold in the EU via the purchase of the main port and a supporting "loan"?  As I said - their culture is conquest by trade.....

If the Chinese are impossible to understand or interpret how can you read them.

Brexit shouldn't stop England doing deals with China or Russia, if there's anyone l find,  what's that again, oh yeah inscrutable it's the American government.  

[Flustered]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course you can claim that anyone other than Trump is only close to the White House, even Wilbur Ross.

 

You are just digging your hole deeper.

 

To remind you what you said.

 

Going back to a comment I made earlier "The White House has ruled out a bilateral agreement any time soon.".

 

The White House said no such thing, it was your statement, not theirs.

 

I think Trump calls it False News.......Well done.