May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Flustered]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

Good !

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vince-cable-liberal-democrat-leader-brexit-may-never-happen-a7831526.html`

 

“I’m beginning to think that Brexit may never happen,” he told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show. “The problems are so enormous, the divisions within the two major parties are so enormous, I can see a scenario in which this doesn’t happen.

 

“Our policy of having a second referendum, which didn’t really cut through in the general election, is designed to give a way out when it becomes clear that Brexit is potentially disastrous."

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 minutes ago, Flustered said:

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

 

Because it's becoming acutely apparent to any wealth creator that it is is disastrous for the country , our economy and the people.  A second referendum coupled with a second question of whether to have any more referendums. Then we can bury this nonsense like nuclear waste in the  deepest of deep historical holes marked very bad idea.

 

My northern kith and kin who all shamefacedly voted to leave are bitterly regretting it now.

 

Edited July 9, 2017 by beautifulthailand99

[Grouse]

https://www.thegentlemansjournal.com/article/stylish-film-summer-baby-driver-ansel-elgort/

 

We do make some good stuff.

 

http://brandirectory.com/league_tables/table/brands-of-british-origin-100-2014

 

But when you look at our top brands, tech is largely missing. Good to see BAE systems and GSK but it's Land Rover that keeps us afloat ?

Edited July 9, 2017 by Grouse

[mommysboy]

22 minutes ago, Flustered said:

That's the English Channel, not the Atlantic. 

 

A product of Blair's dumbing down of education perhaps? 555

Keep walking!  Do us all a favour.

 

 

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

My northern kith and kin who all shamefacedly voted to leave are bitterly regretting it now.

 

Ah yes.....the anecdotal 'Every brexiter I know has changed their mind.' Funnily enough, every brexiter I know is more committed to brexit than ever. The only two remainers I know are my daughter (who is worried about gap year travel in Europe) and the husband of a friend of my wife (who thinks being in the EU stops corruption in the UK ).

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, Flustered said:

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

This was the second referendum on the matter, so yes why not indeed a third and fourth.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Flustered said:

That's the English Channel, not the Atlantic. 

 

A product of Blair's dumbing down of education perhaps? 555

I think you'll find that the UK is ALREADY separated from mainland EU countries by The English Channel and or the North Sea.

 

Walking AWAY from mainland EU countries COULD indicate a paddle in The Irish Sea but the Atlantic is indeed correct IMHO.

 

Sorry to be a pedant.

 

Cue Pugwash!

 

 

Can't get too much of a good laugh, me hearties!

Edited July 9, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

Ah yes.....the anecdotal 'Every brexiter I know has changed their mind.' Funnily enough, every brexiter I know is more committed to brexit than ever. The only two remainers I know are my daughter (who is worried about gap year travel in Europe) and the husband of a friend of my wife (who thinks being in the EU stops corruption in the UK ).

I'm with your daughter (as it were) and the husband of your wife's friend! Sound like sensible, knowledgeable, switched on people to me ?. Offer them a glass of Grouse on me!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Flustered said:

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

I like Vince immensely. Just the kind of statesman with gravitas we need at the moment

 

I was disappointed that he is against free university TUITION  fees. Maybe I miss understood. OBVIOUSLY, free tuition for proper degrees from proper (Russell Group) universities should be paid by the state. One would have to be a dunderhead to disagree with that!

 

https://successatschool.org/advicedetails/341/What-Are-the-Russell-Group-Universities%3F

 

About 20% of the total

Edited July 9, 2017 by Grouse

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Flustered said:

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

If the MPs judge that that is the will of their constituencies and vote in accordance with that, then yes.  Or does democracy mean that the electorate isn't free to change its mind?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If the MPs judge that that is the will of their constituencies and vote in accordance with that, then yes.  Or does democracy mean that the electorate isn't free to change its mind?

I disagree with your general premise. In my opinion, our representive democracy is based on electing members who will vote in the best interest of their constituents and the state generally. They are not elected to reflect the exact balance of individual opinions.

[vogie]

34 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If the MPs judge that that is the will of their constituencies and vote in accordance with that, then yes.  Or does democracy mean that the electorate isn't free to change its mind?

 

[Grouse]

https://www.economist.com/news/britain/21724775-legally-complex-hard-enforce-and-probably-bad-britain-fishing-case-study

 

Something fishy for Brexiteers to masticate.

[ilostmypassword]

45 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I disagree with your general premise. In my opinion, our representive democracy is based on electing members who will vote in the best interest of their constituents and the state generally. They are not elected to reflect the exact balance of individual opinions.

So if an MP believes that another referendum would be in the best interests of their constituents and the state generally, they should vote accordingly. And if that means voting for another referendum, so be it.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

So if an MP believes that another referendum would be in the best interests of their constituents and the state generally, they should vote accordingly. And if that means voting for another referendum, so be it.

Yes

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

So if an MP believes that another referendum would be in the best interests of their constituents and the state generally, they should vote accordingly. And if that means voting for another referendum, so be it.

The Lib/Dem manifesto was all about staying in the EU and even offering the electorate another referendum, if my memory serves me well the electorate totally snubbed them in the General Election. Does that tell you anything?

Edited July 9, 2017 by vogie

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dem manifesto was all about staying in the EU and even offering the electorate another referendum, if my memory serves me well the electorate totally snubbed them in the General Election. Does that tell you anything?

Was that the only issue in the campaign? It seemed to turn far more on the Tories' austerity.. Austerity in which the Lib/Dems were once complicit.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Was that the only issue in the campaign? It seemed to turn far more on the Tories' austerity.. Austerity in which the Lib/Dems were once complicit.

No it wasn't the only issue, but I think by a country mile, the most important. The electorate wasn't interested in yet another referendum. As George Osbourne said, it is a once in a lifetime referendum.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, vogie said:

No it wasn't the only issue, but I think by a country mile, the most important. The electorate wasn't interested in yet another referendum. As George Osbourne said, it is a once in a lifetime referendum.

I don't think so. Clearly it was the Conservative Manifesto that turned things around for Labor. As for another referendum,  I think as negotiations with the EU proceed, or don't, it may start to sink in to the electorate what the consequences of Brexit will be for them.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I don't think so. Clearly it was the Conservative Manifesto that turned things around for Labor. As for another referendum,  I think as negotiations with the EU proceed, or don't, it may start to sink in to the electorate what the consequences of Brexit will be for them.

Yes it was the Tory manifesto that turned it around for Labour, but giving all the talk on here of how electorate have changed their minds, you would have thought that a party (Lib/Dems) that was offering a 'get out of jail for free card' would have got more support from the remainers. But their lack of support would indicate to me that the electorate have not changed their minds.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Ah yes.....the anecdotal 'Every brexiter I know has changed their mind.' Funnily enough, every brexiter I know is more committed to brexit than ever. The only two remainers I know are my daughter (who is worried about gap year travel in Europe) and the husband of a friend of my wife (who thinks being in the EU stops corruption in the UK ).

It's good your daughter is sensible.

[mommysboy]

38 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dem manifesto was all about staying in the EU and even offering the electorate another referendum, if my memory serves me well the electorate totally snubbed them in the General Election. Does that tell you anything?

Yes.  The election wasn't much about Brexit, and nobody like the Lib Dems.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

Yes.  The election wasn't much about Brexit, and nobody like the Lib Dems.

They liked them even less when Tim Farron decided he didn't like the way the brexit vote went and was offering another referendum to the electorate.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Flustered said:

And if a second referendum, why not a third or a fourth or a fifth?

 

Vince Cable is one of the men who is very intelligent but seems to have trouble putting it all together and thinking it through. Probably his LibDem background that holds him back.

Yes I do agree.  You can't have a re-run.  The result must stand.

 

But it is possible for the deal to be voted on, including the option to remain as we are.

 

And if MP's think that any deal is against the national interest it is their duty to vote against it.

[mommysboy]

38 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I don't think so. Clearly it was the Conservative Manifesto that turned things around for Labor. As for another referendum,  I think as negotiations with the EU proceed, or don't, it may start to sink in to the electorate what the consequences of Brexit will be for them.

The polls were narrowing even before the manifesto.  Basically, because it was an election Corbyn started to benefit from an unbiased press, whereas the same showed up May's failings. The manifesto, in particular the dementia tax, was a big factor after that.  I think it was also the positive note of the Labour manifesto which seemed to return to grass roots socialism, plus the charismatic leader, who seemed to gain in popularity every time he spoke from the streets.  May became increasingly unpopular- I remember one interviewee saying: 'every time she speaks I like her less'.

 

I think you are right about people changing their mind about Brexit, because the Yougov poll this week showed a clear shift back to remain.  And the full ramifications haven't even started yet.

Edited July 9, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

50 minutes ago, vogie said:

No it wasn't the only issue, but I think by a country mile, the most important. The electorate wasn't interested in yet another referendum. As George Osbourne said, it is a once in a lifetime referendum.

 

Brexit wasn't mentioned much in the run up. 

 

Austerity became a key issue.

[vogie]

Just now, mommysboy said:

 

Brexit wasn't mentioned much in the run up. 

 

Austerity became a key issue.

Maybe not mentioned, but I'm sure it was paramount in most voters minds.

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Maybe not mentioned, but I'm sure it was paramount in most voters minds.

Quite possibly.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dem manifesto was all about staying in the EU and even offering the electorate another referendum, if my memory serves me well the electorate totally snubbed them in the General Election. Does that tell you anything?

Yes, but not what you would want me to say ?

[vogie]

25 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, but not what you would want me to say ?

Not like a Yorkshireman t'keep trap shut.