May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

As far as knowing what 'electorates wanted', at election time Tony Blair the most successful UK party leader ever.

True -- but scary,,,,,

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

As far as knowing what 'electorates wanted', at election time Tony Blair the most successful UK party leader ever.

 

2 minutes ago, jpinx said:

True -- but scary,,,,,

Won bigger majorities with the first two election victories than either Clement Attlee in 1945 and Margaret Thatcher in any of her triumphs.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

"How can we meet the EU halfway, first we must ask ourselves why was Merkel allowed to open Europes borders to all and sundry,"

Actually, first we must ask why anybody would believe that Merkel "was allowed to open Europes borders to all and sundry". Are you suggesting that there is some party more powerful than Merkel who gave her permission? Or that Merkel set this policy on her own and everyone else had to follow?

It doesn't really matter, as long as the initiative didn't come from Whitehall, does it? 

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

Won bigger majorities with the first two election victories than either Clement Attlee in 1945 and Margaret Thatcher in any of her triumphs.

Just shows how gullible people are!

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, jpinx said:

True -- but scary,,,,,

Yes.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

If you think about it we could actually end up saving their asses........again.  At least from themselves.

Next headline - EU scraps Strasbourg and Brussels and relocates to Sunderland!

[mommysboy]

32 minutes ago, nauseus said:

"Reform is now on Europe’s agenda. The European leaders, certainly from my discussions, are willing to consider changes to accommodate Britain, including around freedom of movement". Even if this part is true we should leave anyway and see how much reform actually happens. I don't trust Blair and I don't trust Merkel. My discussions - pah!

 

Why was there no mention of EU reform before the referendum? Because they thought the UK would vote remain! Its just another delaying tactic. 

It's become an issue EU wide, such that reform might be on the cards.

 

There are 2 consequences of Brexit imo:

1. Slow or no growth for up to a decade, and possibly even a recession.

2. A real socialist government.

 

I can't think Brexiters on this forum want the second, and although people like me might want Corbyn in power, I don't much like the price of it.

 

Unintended consequences: the irony of it!  It's the hard right that looks set to deliver socialism.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by mommysboy
addition

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Next headline - EU scraps Strasbourg and Brussels and relocates to Sunderland!

That would be like moving to the planet of the apes

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I honestly don't think you and Blair do reflect the the same opinions. Blair has been quoted saying that Britain must give  up more power to Brussels and is in favour of mass migration.

 

He does not give a rats tail about the UK only his own selfish interests, Blair, who is tipped as a future EU president is worried about losing such a prestigious job, not whether Britain will be worse off by leaving the EU.

A bit cynical don't you think?

 

He thinks, as do I, that a re-jig of the pillar relating to EU migration may be possible and I agree. The main problem with migration is not the EU but our own government.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Johnyo said:

 

The Muslim hordes as you put it entered the U.K. well before the EU was even created.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Wrong. The majority arrived after the EU was created. There was limited immigration from the commonwealth and elsewhere up to the early 1990's, with a large contingent from Muslim countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan coming to the UK. But after Blair got to power the overall numbers increased dramatically and rose up as much as tenfold. Merkel has just compounded this problem by effectively opening the doors of Europe to just about anyone - this has actually hurt the chances of true refugees reaching safety and care.  

Edited July 15, 2017 by nauseus
wording

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

I honestly don't think you and Blair do reflect the the same opinions. Blair has been quoted saying that Britain must give  up more power to Brussels and is in favour of mass migration.

 

He does not give a rats tail about the UK only his own selfish interests, Blair, who is tipped as a future EU president is worried about losing such a prestigious job, not whether Britain will be worse off by leaving the EU.

Precisely.  No mention at all of the EU's financial waste, just a belated recognition that EU immigration policies need to be addressed and compromise reached.  Presumably only in relation to moslem refugees?  Question mark as I didn't read the entire article as Blair's opinions are as welcome as (insert something revolting), and 'scanning' the first few paras. - I gained the impression the article was trying to pretend this was his first 'utterances' following the brexit vote?

 

Blair at his 'best'  - ignoring the real issues, whilst doing his utmost to ensure that little changes.

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

does Blair have sufficient credibility left to make an impact in the right circles?

 

 

Depends on your definition of the 'right' circles.....

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

does Blair have sufficient credibility left to make an impact in the right circles?

 

 

He has as much credibility as 99% of the current crop of politicians and has the resources to back him up. There are only a handful of MPs with ANY credibility. Sadly, that is one of the reasons we should keep close to the EU ( at least until we grow a pair of statesmen)

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

How can we meet the EU halfway, first we must ask ourselves why was Merkel allowed to open Europes borders to all and sundry, did Merkel ask the EU if we can allow non europeans into europe without checks or any scrutiny what so ever, of course she didn't. She is leading the lemmings, if this was just about trade, fine, but its about controlling what we can or can't do in our own country. We must be able to decide by ourselves who can enter our country and not by the EU dictatorship, it's not a lot to ask really. 

She is free to allow into GERMANY whomsoever their government agrees just the same as we are.

 

I don't want to open the refugee discussion again

 

Frankly, you are deflecting from a good piece by Blair. Did you read it? In its entirety?

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely.  No mention at all of the EU's financial waste, just a belated recognition that EU immigration policies need to be addressed and compromise reached.  Presumably only in relation to moslem refugees?  Question mark as I didn't read the entire article as Blair's opinions are as welcome as (insert something revolting), and 'scanning' the first few paras. - I gained the impression the article was trying to pretend this was his first 'utterances' following the brexit vote?

 

Blair at his 'best'  - ignoring the real issues, whilst doing his utmost to ensure that little changes.

Depends on your definition of the 'right' circles.....

 

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

does Blair have sufficient credibility left to make an impact in the right circles?

 

 

Depends on your definition of the 'right' circles.....

 

hmm,

a bit messy the above, haven't got the hang of multiquoting, any rate:

 

 

No, this was not Blair's first utterance re Brexit.

Some 6-7 weeks ago, say, I read a handful of interviews with Blair in  various international newspapers.

As far as I remember he had 2 main points, this is gonna be a defining/crucial time for UK, this is so impprtant that I want to find a way back into UK politics.

 

What circles? The circles that can steer towards/"chose" between extremely hard brexit all the way down to ultrasoft brexit, or no brexit for that matter.

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Yep, pretty much. Do you think it was a good idea? 

What was the correct way to deal with refugees?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

You obviously failed to notice that the huge number of islamic migrants that Merkel let into Germany a couple of years ago are being re-distributed around the rest of the EU countries, whether they like it or not. The UK, had we remained, were booked for about 300,000 of them.

Totally incorrect. Where did the 300,000 figure come from?

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

"Reform is now on Europe’s agenda. The European leaders, certainly from my discussions, are willing to consider changes to accommodate Britain, including around freedom of movement". Even if this part is true we should leave anyway and see how much reform actually happens. I don't trust Blair and I don't trust Merkel. My discussions - pah!

 

Why was there no mention of EU reform before the referendum? Because they thought the UK would vote remain! Its just another delaying tactic. 

But you trust May and her top flight team of Brexit negotiators? Pah indeed!

 

You may have failed to notice that the EU is substantially stronger now both economically and politically. I think some modifications ARE on the cards.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It doesn't really matter, as long as the initiative didn't come from Whitehall, does it? 

NOTHING really dramatic, insightful, life changing, uplifting has come out of Whitehall for many decades. Managed decline and protecting party interests. Follow the leaders and shout crap comments from the back of the class.

[Grouse]

45 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Next headline - EU scraps Strasbourg and Brussels and relocates to Sunderland!

I can see Strasbourg being dumped that was a Gaullist vanity anyway. The main point is - it won't be Berlin!

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

But you trust May and her top flight team of Brexit negotiators? Pah indeed!

 

You may have failed to notice that the EU is substantially stronger now both economically and politically. I think some modifications ARE on the cards.

Your words - not mine. I was talking about Merkel and Blair, not May.

 

Substantially stronger now both economically and politically  - no I don't think I missed anything!

Edited July 15, 2017 by nauseus

[Grouse]

43 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

That would be like moving to the planet of the apes

That's very insulting - to apes!

[goldenbrwn1]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What was the correct way to deal with refugees?

By not encouraging them. 

[Grouse]

44 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Wrong. The majority arrived after the EU was created. There was limited immigration from the commonwealth and elsewhere up to the early 1990's, with a large contingent from Muslim countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan coming to the UK. But after Blair got to power the overall numbers increased dramatically and rose up as much as tenfold. Merkel has just compounded this problem by effectively opening the doors of Europe to just about anyone - this has actually hurt the chances of true refugees reaching safety and care.  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/uk_1.shtml

[Grouse]

46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely.  No mention at all of the EU's financial waste, just a belated recognition that EU immigration policies need to be addressed and compromise reached.  Presumably only in relation to moslem refugees?  Question mark as I didn't read the entire article as Blair's opinions are as welcome as (insert something revolting), and 'scanning' the first few paras. - I gained the impression the article was trying to pretend this was his first 'utterances' following the brexit vote?

 

Blair at his 'best'  - ignoring the real issues, whilst doing his utmost to ensure that little changes.

Depends on your definition of the 'right' circles.....

Read the article I posted! It's worth the read, I promise you!

 

Waste is real but insignificant compared to the big issues.

[aright]

Anyone from outer space reading Mr Blairs article or this post would think the Referendum issue  was a single issue vote;  "Immigration and the free movement of people". I voted out as did many others because the most important issue for us was Sovereignty and still is. The people issue was not an over riding issue . Perhaps the remainers on this post can tell us how pleased they are to have people in Brussels who they did not elect making laws for them and comment on  the other Brexit issues. 

Get on with it Theresa 

Edited July 15, 2017 by aright

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Your words - not mine. I was talking about Merkel and Blair, not May.

 

Substantially stronger now both economically and politically  - no I don't think I missed anything!

OK. So who benefits from your trust?

 

A year ago we had the fast growth rate in the G7; now we're the slowest. Meanwhile EU growth has strengthened.

 

Politically, the EU is much stronger after the Austrian, Dutch and French elections. Assuming Germany votes sensibly later in the year, the EU will be much stronger than previously.

 

With Merkel on board, watch for positive modest changes.

[dick dasterdly]

46 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Precisely.  No mention at all of the EU's financial waste, just a belated recognition that EU immigration policies need to be addressed and compromise reached.  Presumably only in relation to moslem refugees?  Question mark as I didn't read the entire article as Blair's opinions are as welcome as (insert something revolting), and 'scanning' the first few paras. - I gained the impression the article was trying to pretend this was his first 'utterances' following the brexit vote?

 

Blair at his 'best'  - ignoring the real issues, whilst doing his utmost to ensure that little changes.

Depends on your definition of the 'right' circles.....

 

Just now, Grouse said:

Read the article I posted! It's worth the read, I promise you!

 

Waste is real but insignificant compared to the big issues.

As always, its down to opinion, and the HUGE waste of EU taxpayer money (in various ways) is a HUGE issue.  One that politicians on both sides for some reason consider a minor issue and not an issue that needs to be addressed.....

 

I read the first few paragraphs of the quoted article, but have already pointed out why I read no further.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

Anyone from outer space reading Mr Blairs article or this post would think the Referendum issue  was a single issue vote;  "Immigration and the free movement of people". I voted out as did many others because the most important issue for us was Sovereignty and still is. The people issue was not an over riding issue . Perhaps the remainers on this post can tell us how pleased they are to have people in Brussels who they did not elect making laws for them and comment on  the other Brexit issues. 

Get on with it Theresa 

The sovereignty issue was already comprehensively debunked by May in the section 50 notice.

 

The Economist debunked the "unelected" slur recently. I'll post it.

[goldenbrwn1]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

OK. So who benefits from your trust?

 

A year ago we had the fast growth rate in the G7; now we're the slowest. Meanwhile EU growth has strengthened.

 

Politically, the EU is much stronger after the Austrian, Dutch and French elections. Assuming Germany votes sensibly later in the year, the EU will be much stronger than previously.

 

With Merkel on board, watch for positive modest changes.

Even though the French elections , Dutch ect came through for the EU , there is no doubting the dismay from very large parts of the public there over immigration and the EU in general. Macron beat a far right politician and got most of his votes because he was the only choice and even then Marie le pen done very well. The EU has had a wake up call over brexit and I hope they appreciate this alarm bell from us.

Edited July 15, 2017 by goldenbrwn1

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

As always, its down to opinion, and the HUGE waste of EU taxpayer money (in various ways) is a HUGE issue.  One that politicians on both sides for some reason consider a minor issue and not an issue that needs to be addressed.....

 

I read the first few paragraphs of the quoted article, but have already pointed out why I read no further.

Again, if you read things fully you might have a clearer view which side of the fence is more attractive ?

 

EU GDP is about 20 trillion Euro. That's 20,000,000,000,000 Euro

 

5 Billion waste is .025%

 

Lets concentrate on the big stuff like happiness, peace, prosperity and fairness

Edited July 15, 2017 by Grouse