4 hours ago, jpinx said:

Cameron was, and still is, at fault for misleading the house, is own party and the country - he's never even apologised....  That's fact and not blame unless you have those two things in the same part of your head    The blame-game is just another aspect of the divisive politics which the UK is saddled with and it's been holding back and distorting the political landscape of UK in many ways  - not only this latest spat about Brexit.   

 

Barnier seems to have a huge chip on his shoulder about UK - not only about Brexit.  He has happily taken on the role of goading the UK's team into making silly mistakes by making unhelpful and downright incorrect statements.  It's a shame the UK's team leader is not strong enough to respond in kind and stop the flow of bile.  One wonders if Barniers tactic is to run the negotiations out of time. 

 

 

"is own party"

 

I knew there was some Yorkshire in tha' somewhere lad!

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Pressure on for Brexit transitional arrangements: http://tinyurl.com/yak76tbc

 

Government said to be softening up on need for transitional requirements: http://tinyurl.com/y7d7ho9z

 

Kenneth Clarke says UK government hopelessly divided on what to do:  http://tinyurl.com/y9vttn7v

 

 
If you can't work out the answer to that, you are truly lost. Autocracy is never the answer in government.

You need to read the definition of Autocracy. Unless of course you believe Merkel is the Omnipotent leader of them all.


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1 minute ago, Johnyo said:

 

You need to read the definition of Autocracy. Unless of course you believe Merkel is the Omnipotent leader of them all.


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It's plainly obvious that Merkel is the leader. They don't even try to disguise the fact any more.

14 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Government said to be softening up on need for transitional requirements: http://tinyurl.com/y7d7ho9z

 

A good news day as the smoke is starting to clear. More please. Starting to follow the UKIP Twitter now to see when they start squealing...

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Uh OK then. So now we have it. David Davis is the last man standing this week in shining armour. Theresa May ever-so slightly worn and a little bit discarded by the Hard Brexiteers it looks like. Yes, carry on!

I didn't say any of that - just a typical twisted interpretation - looks like your straw is even more matted than ever.

55 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Kenneth Clarke says UK government hopelessly divided on what to do:  http://tinyurl.com/y9vttn7v

 

Kenneth Clarke says a lot of baseless stuff then regularly loses debates on the same subjects.

Three times Kenneth Clarke stood for leader of his party, and three times he was rejected by his fellow Tory MPs.  That says it all.  He's yesterday's man

29 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Three times Kenneth Clarke stood for leader of his party, and three times he was rejected by his fellow Tory MPs.  That says it all.  He's yesterday's man

 

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.politico.eu/article/eu-clarifies-stance-brexit-bill-michel-barnier-david-davis/amp/

 

a good read that

 

not too bad though,

they seek agreement to what should/should not be counted before quantifying, fair enough

 

what about real estate? is that a potential issue as part of brexit?

while UK has been party to EEC/EU quite some construction/building has taken place

in Brussels (and other places)

 

not familiar with how this is financed/owned

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

a good read that

 

not too bad though,

they seek agreement to what should/should not be counted before quantifying, fair enough

 

what about real estate? is that a potential issue as part of brexit?

while UK has been party to EEC/EU quite some construction/building has taken place

in Brussels (and other places)

 

not familiar with how this is financed/owned

 

 

 

 

Beggars can't be choosers and the tail doesn't get to wag the dog. Brexiteers love to say we are members and belong to a club . Well when you stop paying your dues and leave the club you don't get to take pictures off the wall.

18 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Beggars can't be choosers and the tail doesn't get to wag the dog. Brexiteers love to say we are members and belong to a club . Well when you stop paying your dues and leave the club you don't get to take pictures off the wall.

 

And neither do you have to pay your subs for the next ten years after you've left, if you want to look at it like that.

 

Do you want a good deal for the UK or don't you?

1 hour ago, lungbing said:

Three times Kenneth Clarke stood for leader of his party, and three times he was rejected by his fellow Tory MPs.  That says it all.  He's yesterday's man

Arise Sir Vince! Merlin foretold that when the country is in the hour of need, Arthur would return! Well he's busy; so it's down to Sir Vincalot!

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Arise Sir Vince! Merlin foretold that when the country is in the hour of need, Arthur would return! Well he's busy; so it's down to Sir Vincalot!

Have another Grouse, Grouse! 

6 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

And neither do you have to pay your subs for the next ten years after you've left, if you want to look at it like that.

 

Do you want a good deal for the UK or don't you?

We will be paying for access to the markets and brokering immigration deals that support British business whist supporting the 1 million UK expats who live in the EU , adult responsible stuff. You do get some pragmatic way forward is being negotiated by adults now in the real world and old Uncle Nigel's bar room banter and fantasies are dissapearing into the rear view mirror. A good deal for the UK is one in which we pretty much keep what we had with some tinkering around the edges , and I for one am pleased that real-politik is rearing it's beautiful head. I had though all this Brexit means Brexit - let's have a hard Brexit and screw the EU was gaining ground with the political class. It ain't and if you are a hard Brexiteer you are going to be sold down the swanee.

 

But paradoxically, it's those seeking to prevent a referendum re-run who have the most to fear from a bungled exit. The more time is wasted, the more likely that the UK ends up having to agree to a prolonged transition, with the timing of a full-blown trade deal at the EU's convenience. And the longer the transition, the better the chances for Remainers of winning a replay. 

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/07/will-britain-end-agreeing-lengthy-transition-deal-eu

 

“Because Brexit is a made-up word, which 18 months ago none of us knew, it really doesn’t have any fixed meaning and might end up being forgotten completely.

“Remember it was only five years ago that everyone was saying YOLO, and where is that now?

“Ultimately, Brexit means whatever you want it to mean. And I am determined to make it a success.”

Brexit voter Margaret Gerving said: “I never really knew what Brexit meant anyway. I just wanted it, passionately, with every fibre of my being.”

 

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brexit-does-not-necessarily-mean-brexit-says-may-20170721132499

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

We will be paying for access to the markets and brokering immigration deals that support British business whist supporting the 1 million UK expats who live in the EU , adult responsible stuff. You do get some pragmatic way forward is being negotiated by adults now in the real world and old Uncle Nigel's bar room banter and fantasies are dissapearing into the rear view mirror. A good deal for the UK is one in which we pretty much keep what we had with some tinkering around the edges , and I for one am pleased that real-politik is rearing it's beautiful head. I had though all this Brexit means Brexit - let's have a hard Brexit and screw the EU was gaining ground with the political class. It ain't and if you are a hard Brexiteer you are going to be sold down the swanee.

 

But paradoxically, it's those seeking to prevent a referendum re-run who have the most to fear from a bungled exit. The more time is wasted, the more likely that the UK ends up having to agree to a prolonged transition, with the timing of a full-blown trade deal at the EU's convenience. And the longer the transition, the better the chances for Remainers of winning a replay. 

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/07/will-britain-end-agreeing-lengthy-transition-deal-eu

 

“Because Brexit is a made-up word, which 18 months ago none of us knew, it really doesn’t have any fixed meaning and might end up being forgotten completely.

“Remember it was only five years ago that everyone was saying YOLO, and where is that now?

“Ultimately, Brexit means whatever you want it to mean. And I am determined to make it a success.”

Brexit voter Margaret Gerving said: “I never really knew what Brexit meant anyway. I just wanted it, passionately, with every fibre of my being.”

 

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/brexit-does-not-necessarily-mean-brexit-says-may-20170721132499

 

You really are a full-on internet propagandist for Remain's Project Fear, aren't you?

 

If you buy into the notion that being a member of the EU club is a financial proposition, you buy into the whole package, and that package remains the same when you buy out. It doesn't reset to sway all the finances to one party opon divorce. The divorce has to take into account all inputs, outputs and commitments. Anything else is nonsense.

 

I will ask you again, Mr Remain Propagandist, do you want a good deal for the UK or don't you?

I was trying to think where I'd seen beautifulthailand99 before:

 

 

GBPEUR now starting to get less than 1:1 cash. Fantastico! http://tinyurl.com/ycybkmzb

 

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

GBPEUR now starting to get less than 1:1 cash. Fantastico! http://tinyurl.com/ycybkmzb

 

 

Off he goes again. How's Sterling doing against the US Dollar? That exchange rate used to be your major contribution to the brexit discussions. Is it still below 1.20?

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

I was trying to think where I'd seen beautifulthailand99 before:

 

 

 

Nice horse that!

 

 

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If you can't work out the answer to that, you are truly lost. Autocracy is never the answer in government.

You would prefer to be shafted by Humphrey in Whitehall than someone in Brussels whose name you can't pronounce. like the increased pension age being brought forward by 8 years or the reduction in the police force or the disgraceful need for food banks in a European country,you personally had some control over this did you?

When you enter a post on TV, is it possible to include another thread as recipient?

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You really are a full-on internet propagandist for Remain's Project Fear, aren't you?

 

If you buy into the notion that being a member of the EU club is a financial proposition, you buy into the whole package, and that package remains the same when you buy out. It doesn't reset to sway all the finances to one party opon divorce. The divorce has to take into account all inputs, outputs and commitments. Anything else is nonsense.

 

I will ask you again, Mr Remain Propagandist, do you want a good deal for the UK or don't you?

The only people who should be worried about brexit are those relying on a British pension

16 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The only people who should be worried about brexit are those relying on a British pension

weirder and weirder

The Economist is correct as always

 

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

 
It's plainly obvious that Merkel is the leader. They don't even try to disguise the fact any more.

Not sure if you are delusional or suffering from inferiority complex.


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56 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Not sure if you are delusional or suffering from inferiority complex.


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That's pretty much a default option for many on here.

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

The Economist is correct as always

 

https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21725314-long-government-stays-denial-about-brexits-drawbacks-country-course

 

That may be so, but look at this quoted piece from the article you link to;

 

"The government has not published any estimates of the impact of the various types of Brexit since the referendum, but academic studies suggest that even the “softest” option—Norwegian-style membership of the European Economic Area—would cut trade by at least 20% over ten years, whereas the “hardest” exit, reverting to trade on the World Trade Organisation’s terms, would reduce trade by 40% and cut annual income per person by 2.6%. As the economy weakens, these concerns will weigh more heavily. Britain’s economy is growing more slowly than that of any other member of the EU. The election showed that its voters are sick of austerity. Our own polling finds that, when forced to choose, a majority now favours a soft Brexit, inside the single market (see article)."

 

 

 

I just wonder how difficult it would be to find a think tank or some so called academic studies that would conclude with

increase in trade rather than decrease, or maybe argue that trade would remain roughly as is.

 

Not too hard me thinks, (although I woun't try and find).

 

Thats an interesting aspect of political happenings like Brexit, "everybody" engaged.

Big words and lofty views fly all over the place.

Whatever view you might have; if you cannot substantiate it through today's media utterings,

just wait for tomorrow's.

 

Something for everybody here.

Add a couple of murders and some love story stuff and you have solid basis for a long series of lakorn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You really are a full-on internet propagandist for Remain's Project Fear, aren't you?

 

If you buy into the notion that being a member of the EU club is a financial proposition, you buy into the whole package, and that package remains the same when you buy out. It doesn't reset to sway all the finances to one party opon divorce. The divorce has to take into account all inputs, outputs and commitments. Anything else is nonsense.

 

I will ask you again, Mr Remain Propagandist, do you want a good deal for the UK or don't you?

I refer the Right Dishonourable member to the answer I made earlier. As a remoaner you will be aware that I beleive we had a good deal before all this stuff kicked off - having had the vote a deal that doesn't shaft our or other EU citizens and protects British business interests and therefore the UK economy is what I will deam to be a 'good deal' . And a good deal is better than a bad deal which is better than no deal. But whatever deal we ultimately get will be worse than the deal we had and as such all this drawn out nonsense has  had a very severe impact on the how the UK is viewed internationally and how succesfull we are going to be as a country moving forward into what are very testing times. Not just for the UK but the whole world. Cameron and his Eton chums have put at risk the UK in a most existential way for what they perceived as short term electoral gain in a reckless , cavalier way for that I will never forgive him. We are in an almighty mess and I hope and pray our pygmy politicians can begin to start making sensible evidence based decisions rather than trading in mindless, derring-do sound bites. Acting like Millwall internationally with megaphone soundbites  "we are GB and we don't care" is neither a good look or a valid negotiating tactic. Let's leave infantalism for the orange hewed, rapey-baby over the pond. The value of the pound and the security of your pensions is at risk here for starters.