May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

27 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Good evening Grouse,  'unsavoury types who try to influence them'. Thats interesting..I think we know where we get 'facts and figures' from..but why would you believe the BBC and news media?  all controlled by big corporations.

Independence make you strong...or perhaps you would like to pay me for making up silly rules in your house.

 

I would trust EU decisions to be for general good much more than I would trust this con government

 

I rely upon The Economist; thoroughly recommended for facts and excellent prose  

 

 

[aright]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I would trust EU decisions to be for general good much more than I would trust this con government

 

I rely upon The Economist; thoroughly recommended for facts and excellent prose  

 

 

Perhaps you should rely more on the Telegraph.

Why the Brexit bill actually saves us a fortune!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/02/dont-worry-brexit-bill-will-save-us-fortune/

 

 

[nauseus]

58 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

At the national election Jeremy Corbyn gained a great deal more supporters than anyone, including him, expected. Part of that is due to his promise to leave the EU but stay within the customs union and free trading area ... the least worst option if you are a remainer. You can't take that as an endorsement of the Brexit vote ... if that were true then you should welcome a second referendum as the vote would, according to your theory, be overwhelmingly in favour of leaving ... but you don't want that, as you fear that it would go the other way. So there was no endorsement of Brexit, just a desire for the least worse outcome.

 

As for the shambles that is the negotiation, why shouldn't I laugh at the sad spectacle? Why should we all be expected to rally behind the Brexit banner? I'd like to see a second referendum on the "facts", as we will know them, rather than the "lies", that we can see unravelling. If you are a patriot and you want what's best for your country you fight for what you believe is right, not give up because of a narrow results referendum "opinion poll". Isn't that what Nigel Farage said at the start of voting? If it was a close call, like 48-52%, he'd keep up the good fight? Funny that he never mentioned it again after the vote!

 

 

 

Jeremy Corbyn gained seats in the GE primarily due to the ridiculous welfare gaffes in the Tory manifesto.

 

"Leave the EU but stay within the customs union and free trading area" is just another totally unachievable promise from Corbyn.

 

Having a second referendum so soon really opens us up to the prospect of having them every two years. That's fair isn't it?

 

. 

[aright]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Jeremy Corbyn gained seats in the GE primarily due to the ridiculous welfare gaffes in the Tory manifesto.

 

"Leave the EU but stay within the customs union and free trading area" is just another totally unachievable promise from Corbyn.

 

Having a second referendum so soon really opens us up to the prospect of having them every two years. That's fair isn't it?

 

. 

AlexRich seems to have conveniently forgotten at the last election the Liberal Democrats promised another referendum if they got into power. Their vote was significantly reduced. 

[AlexRich]

23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The promises by both sides were mainly all bad but you don't mention the rubbish spouted by Project Fear.

 

We can't leave and pay nothing, there were always obligations. We still don't have confirmation or details of what the reported figure is and what it is supposed to include. 

Project fear is playing out before your eyes ... and it’s even worse than expected if Corbyn gets in power. Funny no one mentioned paying 50 billion GBP to the EU, only a fictitious saving?

[Grouse]

38 minutes ago, aright said:

He is so good that perhaps you would like to tell us of the significant improvement in Liberal Democrat poll ratings since he became Leader of his Party.

Folks, I suspect we are now going to get a new UK Numpty rating of 80%.

 

 

Sadly, our electoral system means that many take the view that not voting for either of the two big parties is a wasted vote. I'm sure that is why we don't have a more sensible, steady, middle ground. I happen to agree with many, though by no means all, Liberal views. I cannot abide Corbyn and particularly Abbott. I don't care for the Komodo Cons either. I'm pro EU and anti Muslim. So I'm rather disenfranchised.

 

I don't use the word "numpty" by mutual agreement with the powers at be. Too close to the knuckle you see?

 

The term Epsilon appeals because it implies ugliness in addition to stupidity! Brave New World is recommended! (It's under H for Huxley on your bookshelf)

 

Did you see that cynical, duplicitous, bastard Farage on the BBC? How can anyone say the BBC is biased when they give him air time). Embarrassing.

Edited December 3, 2017 by Grouse

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I would trust EU decisions to be for general good much more than I would trust this con government

 

I rely upon The Economist; thoroughly recommended for facts and excellent prose  

 

 

I suppose you would. The Economist is mainly owned by pro EU multinationals too. Sad.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, aright said:

AlexRich seems to have conveniently forgotten at the last election the Liberal Democrats promised another referendum if they got into power. Their vote was significantly reduced. 

 

The Liberal Democrat’s have never been forgiven for the coalition and not even a promise to end Brexit changed that. People, wrongly in my view, voted for the party that offered the least harmful option.

[aright]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

The Liberal Democrat’s have never been forgiven for the coalition and not even a promise to end Brexit changed that. People, wrongly in my view, voted for the party that offered the least harmful option.

So leaving the EU isn't as important as you or other Remainers think then.

[AlexRich]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Jeremy Corbyn gained seats in the GE primarily due to the ridiculous welfare gaffes in the Tory manifesto.

 

"Leave the EU but stay within the customs union and free trading area" is just another totally unachievable promise from Corbyn.

 

Having a second referendum so soon really opens us up to the prospect of having them every two years. That's fair isn't it?

 

. 

 

If people in this country vote to leave with all the facts on the table then that really would be the end of the matter. 

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, aright said:

Perhaps you should rely more on the Telegraph.

Why the Brexit bill actually saves us a fortune!

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/02/dont-worry-brexit-bill-will-save-us-fortune/

 

 

I used to read the Torygraph when the cryptic crossword was good. Dumbed down now of course...

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, aright said:

So leaving the EU isn't as important as you or other Remainers think then.

I think people bought into the argument of accepting the referendum ... a mistake in my opinion. The important point is that May lost the election majority .... and if people where now so happy with Brexit why would they not want to strengthen her hand? Instead, they weakened it.

[aright]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

I used to read the Torygraph when the cryptic crossword was good. Dumbed down now of course...

Thanks for your constructive appraisal of the article.

 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I suppose you would. The Economist is mainly owned by pro EU multinationals too. Sad.

Now now nauseus, you know very well that The Economist is first class. Top rated for everything; nothing else comes close. 

[aright]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

I think people bought into the argument of accepting the referendum ... a mistake in my opinion. The important point is that May lost the election majority .... and if people where now so happy with Brexit why would they not want to strengthen her hand? Instead, they weakened it.

By the same token if people were so unhappy with Brexit why didn't they vote LD

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, aright said:

So leaving the EU isn't as important as you or other Remainers think then.

That's a bit of a non sequitur! You'll have to explain 

[Grouse]

OK, I see where your misunderstanding comes from. You think that by cutting money flowing to the EU it will mean that Joe Public will be better off.

 

How sweet!

 

The Komodo Cons want to pocket the lot and farm the epsilons (and deltas) in a 21st century feudal system.

 

Naive 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Grouse

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's a bit of a non sequitur! You'll have to explain 

It means it doesn't logically follow.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, aright said:

By the same token if people were so unhappy with Brexit why didn't they vote LD

 

They don't like them very much ... and an election is about more than just Brexit. The argument that a large percentage of people voted for parties that support the Brexit decision and therefore they must now support Brexit is a false one. Most Tory MP's voted remain. The move towards Corbyn was because he offered the weakest Brexit.

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, FreddieRoyle said:

quote "Majority back a second referendum on the Brexit Deal"

 

and if the luvvies don't get their "correct"result, should there then be a 3rd referendum? and a 4th? and a 5th? Some people have a really hard time understanding the purpose of referendums and votes. 

 

 Corbyn perversely offers the best chance for the survival of Britain and Britishness. After a few years of his marxist guff and the destruction of all that is held in esteem there will be a sudden swing to the patriot parties much like is happening in most of Europe after years of leftist politics which were devastating (as was predicted by all savvy observers).

Yes, I see the danger here- the result must stand.  But it does not appear that Brexit is do-able in the way most thought!

 

There should be a referendum on the final deal: if the majority regard it unacceptable then Brexit can be considered a dead duck.

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, aright said:

It means it doesn't logically follow.

Sequor, sequi, sectus - to follow

 

logically or otherwise

Edited December 3, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They don't like them very much ... and an election is about more than just Brexit. The argument that a large percentage of people voted for parties that support the Brexit decision and therefore they must now support Brexit is a false one. Most Tory MP's voted remain. The move towards Corbyn was because he offered the weakest Brexit.

Correct! People are prepared to accept Corbyn and Abbott mainly to avoid a hard, Komodo Con Brexit!!!!

[nauseus]

24 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

If people in this country vote to leave with all the facts on the table then that really would be the end of the matter. 

But if they didn't?

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Yes, I see the danger here- the result must stand.  But it does not appear that Brexit is do-able in the way most thought!

 

There should be a referendum on the final deal: if the majority regard it unacceptable then Brexit can be considered a dead duck.

That colour, with its neck at that angle, it's not going to fly. It's crispy, its deceased, it's an ex-Brexit!

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Sadly, our electoral system means that many take the view that not voting for either of the two big parties is a wasted vote. I'm sure that is why we don't have a more sensible, steady, middle ground. I happen to agree with many, though by no means all, Liberal views. I cannot abide Corbyn and particularly Abbott. I don't care for the Komodo Cons either. I'm pro EU and anti Muslim. So I'm rather disenfranchised.

 

I don't use the word "numpty" by mutual agreement with the powers at be. Too close to the knuckle you see?

 

The term Epsilon appeals because it implies ugliness in addition to stupidity! Brave New World is recommended! (It's under H for Huxley on your bookshelf)

 

Did you see that cynical, duplicitous, bastard Farage on the BBC? How can anyone say the BBC is biased when they give him air time). Embarrassing.

Oh no! The BBC had Farage on last year too! Scandalous!

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They don't like them very much ... and an election is about more than just Brexit. The argument that a large percentage of people voted for parties that support the Brexit decision and therefore they must now support Brexit is a false one. Most Tory MP's voted remain. The move towards Corbyn was because he offered the weakest Brexit.

The move towards Corbyn was right after May's manifesto was published. Nothing to do with boiled eggs.

Edited December 3, 2017 by nauseus

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That colour, with its neck at that angle, it's not going to fly. It's crispy, its deceased, it's an ex-Brexit!

Oh sorry, thought you were talking about your grouse, Grouse.

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Correct! People are prepared to accept Corbyn and Abbott mainly to avoid a hard, Komodo Con Brexit!!!!

Let's not bring Abbot's commode into this. Tis a family forum, after all.

Edited December 3, 2017 by nauseus

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Oh sorry, thought you were talking about your grouse, Grouse.

You heartless bastardo!

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Let's not bring Abbot's commode into this. Tis a family forum, after all.

I was just about to eat.....