May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[jpinx]

10 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

Where have you been these last 8+ years? look around you the answer is out there. 

The guy I was responding to needed a bit of help - like so many in here

[Johnyo]

 
You're pathetic and deluded. Trying to pin a murder by someone with serious mental health issues on a cause you oppose. Get a life.

You are such a narrow minded person it beggars believe you can't see the truth. From today's newspaper. " he searched the internet for fascist groups and how to kill"

Get it idiot, fascist being you Brexit nutters and killing whilst shouting Britain first.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Srikcir]

11 hours ago, jpinx said:

That was the selection for countries over 300 b GDP. 

Why do so many of the worlds major countries have a falling GDP?

There are a number of reasons some of the major countries have a falling GDP.

Russia for falling oil prices and EU/USA export bans.

China for economic contraction due to domestic spending and falling exports.

India for falling world agricultural prices.

Etc.

This map might be a useful giude for further discovery:

[jpinx]

12 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

There are a number of reasons some of the major countries have a falling GDP.

Russia for falling oil prices and EU/USA export bans.

China for economic contraction due to domestic spending and falling exports.

India for falling world agricultural prices.

Etc.

This map might be a useful giude for further discovery.......

Is there a problem with reading the data?  China and India do not have falling GDP's -- even in the map you posted.....

[billd766]

11 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

It is very difficult to take you seriously with some of your posts! 

 

Just who would dismantle the EU? Do you think Merkel is going to say OK it's not working lets dismantle it? That is just not even a realistic question to ask. The question is. Will the EU survive on it's present course, reform or collapse? 

 

As if Junker/Merkel/Hollande would ever admit the EU is failing. 

 

There is a possibility that either or both Angela Merkel and Francois Hollande but not be in power in Germany and France after the next elections there.

 

If that should happen IMHO then the EU as it exists in its present state will have to reform or simply collapse in on itself. When the UK leaves there will be 27 countries, only 4 of which are net donors leaving 23 who are net gainers. The money to run the bloated EU will not be there, there will be no effective leadership leaving the EU in the hands of Donald Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker.

 

It will be a house divided against itself.

 

This is only my personal opinion. Others may agree or disagree.

[billd766]

11 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

They voted for Brexit because their monopoly on benefits for a lifetime was under threat by foreigners!

 

 

Piffle.

 

Do you have a link, facts or any reports showing this, or are you just making it up?

 

Most of the people I know who voted for Brexit are managers and they are not on benefits.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Johnyo said:

 

You are such a narrow minded person it beggars believe you can't see the truth. From today's newspaper. " he searched the internet for fascist groups and how to kill"

Get it idiot, fascist being you Brexit nutters and killing whilst shouting Britain first.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

A typical response to someone that you disagree with.

 

If you have no real comment, then just insult the poster.

 

BTW that is what Grouse does all the time.

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I actually think it is the catalyst for an even bigger upset in 2017, to see the populist peoples revolt against the EU. The statement you have mentioned is the attitude that is going to destroy the EU and the establishment who just do not see people want change. Calling them derogative names such as Chavs  and racists, is just the closed mentality that is providing these so called numpties into power.

 

You've pretty much much proved my point ... there are several on here who are predicting the destruction of the 'establishment' ... egged on by establishment politicians and establishment newspapers like the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Express, etc. You're not part of a revolution, you're part of a mass manipulation ... voting for protectionist and restrictive policies, seeking out someone to blame (EU/immigrants) ... you're not rising up against mainstream media, you're being manipulated by it. And if all this predicted destruction comes to pass, we're all left in a monumental mess. The guy in the street is no more powerful or in control today than he was before these elections ... delusional.

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Piffle.

 

Do you have a link, facts or any reports showing this, or are you just making it up?

 

Most of the people I know who voted for Brexit are managers and they are not on benefits.

 

It was widely reported that a rush of people registered to vote (and did vote) who had never before from the lower income levels of society ... the 'benefits' streets of England and Wales voted Brexit more than remain. 

 

If you don't think that's true that's fine by me.

 

 

 

[billd766]

45 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

It was widely reported that a rush of people registered to vote (and did vote) who had never before from the lower income levels of society ... the 'benefits' streets of England and Wales voted Brexit more than remain. 

 

If you don't think that's true that's fine by me.

 

 

 

 

If as you say it was widely reported then you should be able to find the links, reports etc to back up what you say.

 

Otherwise there is only your word for it, and how much is that worth?

[Jip99]

54 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

It was widely reported that a rush of people registered to vote (and did vote) who had never before from the lower income levels of society ... the 'benefits' streets of England and Wales voted Brexit more than remain. 

 

If you don't think that's true that's fine by me.

 

 

 

 

 

It really doesn't matter does it?

 

A vote is a vote and I know a number of thick knuts who voted REMAIN.

[AlexRich]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

If as you say it was widely reported then you should be able to find the links, reports etc to back up what you say.

 

Otherwise there is only your word for it, and how much is that worth?

 

Well, similarly, if it is completely untrue you have a wonderful opportunity to 'prove it' by providing your own links and citations that show that?

 

For example, if you can find a headline "most benefit claimants vote remain" the job is done.  

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Piffle.

 

Do you have a link, facts or any reports showing this, or are you just making it up?

 

Most of the people I know who voted for Brexit are managers and they are not on benefits.

 

Making it up? Everyone who has done any reading on the Brexit vote knows that my comments were accurate ... the majority of benefit claimants voted for Brexit.

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/

 

"The most striking thing about Britain’s break with the EU is this: it’s the poor wot done it. Council-estate dwellers, Sun readers, people who didn’t get good GCSE results (which is primarily an indicator of class, not stupidity): they rose up, they tramped to the polling station, and they said no to the EU".

 

"Let’s make no bones about this: Britain’s poor and workless have risen up."

 

Source: The Spectator, Brendan O'Neil, 2 July 2016

 

[Laughing Gravy]

40 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

"Let’s make no bones about this: Britain’s poor and workless have risen up."

Well I have to say that this is an absolute hideous statement. Myself, friends and everyone I have spoken to who voted brexit have jobs and would be considered middle class in the wealth and education bracket. The only  person I know who voted brexit who doesn't work, is my mother. She is a pensioner.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

You've pretty much much proved my point ... there are several on here who are predicting the destruction of the 'establishment' ... egged on by establishment politicians and establishment newspapers like the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Daily Express, etc. You're not part of a revolution, you're part of a mass manipulation ... voting for protectionist and restrictive policies, seeking out someone to blame (EU/immigrants) ... you're not rising up against mainstream media, you're being manipulated by it. And if all this predicted destruction comes to pass, we're all left in a monumental mess. The guy in the street is no more powerful or in control today than he was before these elections ... delusional.

 

 

 

Well the referendum result as was Trumps win was not expected and against the establishments judgment. You talk about restrictive policies. LOL the EU and its laws and practices is the ultimate, in strangle holding and bureaucracy.

 

What is wrong in voting to protect yourself, your beliefs, countrymen/women, your jobs, your culture and religion if that's what you want. You seem to think that is wrong. It is not.

[SaintLouisBlues]

6 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well the referendum result as was Trumps win was not expected and against the establishments judgment. You talk about restrictive policies. LOL the EU and its laws and practices is the ultimate, in strangle holding and bureaucracy.

 

What is wrong in voting to protect yourself, your beliefs, countrymen/women, your jobs, your culture and religion if that's what you want. You seem to think that is wrong. It is not.

What we must be grateful for is that with the Brexit referendum result, unlike Trump's win, the grown-ups are still in charge

[billd766]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

Well, similarly, if it is completely untrue you have a wonderful opportunity to 'prove it' by providing your own links and citations that show that?

 

For example, if you can find a headline "most benefit claimants vote remain" the job is done.  

 

 

 

Why should I do your work for you?

 

You are they one who claims that it is correct,not me.

 

You find the headlines or the links, or are you too lazy to do so?

[AlexRich]

52 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well I have to say that this is an absolute hideous statement. Myself, friends and everyone I have spoken to who voted brexit have jobs and would be considered middle class in the wealth and education bracket. The only  person I know who voted brexit who doesn't work, is my mother. She is a pensioner.

 

Bear in mind that "The Spectator" is a Tory Brexit-supporting rag. But the fact of the matter is that the poorest and less educated in UK society predominantly voted for Brexit.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

 

Making it up? Everyone who has done any reading on the Brexit vote knows that my comments were accurate ... the majority of benefit claimants voted for Brexit.

 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/brexit-voters-are-not-thick-not-racist-just-poor/

 

"The most striking thing about Britain’s break with the EU is this: it’s the poor wot done it. Council-estate dwellers, Sun readers, people who didn’t get good GCSE results (which is primarily an indicator of class, not stupidity): they rose up, they tramped to the polling station, and they said no to the EU".

 

"Let’s make no bones about this: Britain’s poor and workless have risen up."

 

Source: The Spectator, Brendan O'Neil, 2 July 2016

 

 

Wow. A quote from one of the UK's largest selling and most popular newspapers. What a wonderful result you came up with.

 

Quote "The magazine had an ABC circulation figure of 54,070 in 2013, 6,722 of which were unpaid-for copies.[1] This was down from a peak of 76,952 in 2008."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator

 

Even Grouse's favourite newspaper The Guardian had something to say about the Spectator.

 

quote " The Spectator has recorded its highest ever total circulation figures after racking up 71,707 print and digital sales for the last six months of 2015."

 

quote "

The New Statesman saw the biggest rises in both print, increasing copy sales 9% to 31,465, and digital, which almost tripled to more than 1,900.

However, Private Eye, which is only available in print, remains well ahead of the UK-focussed competition, selling 229,777 copies, an increase of 4.7% on the same period of 2014. It was followed by the Week, which upped print circulation by 2% to 204,128 and increased sales of its separate digital version by 25% to 34,637.

The Economist saw a small decline in its UK print sales, down just over 7% to 161,783, but experienced an overall rise in circulation due to a 47% increase in digital sales to 73,567, giving it a total combined circulation of 235,350."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/11/the-spectator-magazine-records-highest-ever-circulation

[AlexRich]

49 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well the referendum result as was Trumps win was not expected and against the establishments judgment. You talk about restrictive policies. LOL the EU and its laws and practices is the ultimate, in strangle holding and bureaucracy.

 

What is wrong in voting to protect yourself, your beliefs, countrymen/women, your jobs, your culture and religion if that's what you want. You seem to think that is wrong. It is not.

 

The problem is that you are not 'protecting' anyone, you're simply making a bad situation worse. Every time we see barriers go up and protectionist policies put in place we enter a vicious circle ... lower growth and everyone being poorer ... trade wars sometimes provoke real wars. A pyrrhic victory ... with costs that exceed the benefits. The UK is an uglier country since this vote, not a better one. As is the USA.

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Wow. A quote from one of the UK's largest selling and most popular newspapers. What a wonderful result you came up with.

 

Quote "The magazine had an ABC circulation figure of 54,070 in 2013, 6,722 of which were unpaid-for copies.[1] This was down from a peak of 76,952 in 2008."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spectator

 

Even Grouse's favourite newspaper The Guardian had something to say about the Spectator.

 

quote " The Spectator has recorded its highest ever total circulation figures after racking up 71,707 print and digital sales for the last six months of 2015."

 

quote "

The New Statesman saw the biggest rises in both print, increasing copy sales 9% to 31,465, and digital, which almost tripled to more than 1,900.

However, Private Eye, which is only available in print, remains well ahead of the UK-focussed competition, selling 229,777 copies, an increase of 4.7% on the same period of 2014. It was followed by the Week, which upped print circulation by 2% to 204,128 and increased sales of its separate digital version by 25% to 34,637.

The Economist saw a small decline in its UK print sales, down just over 7% to 161,783, but experienced an overall rise in circulation due to a 47% increase in digital sales to 73,567, giving it a total combined circulation of 235,350."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/feb/11/the-spectator-magazine-records-highest-ever-circulation

 

So are you implying that this Brexit-supporting magazine was wrong on facts? You asked for a reference, you got one from a respected source that supports the Brexit cause. If you are claiming that it is wrong and factually incorrect please provide YOUR evidence to back that claim up?

 

The reason why I am weary of providing sources is that the only reason they are asked for is so that the requester can find some snippet of information to deflect or obfuscate the argument ... and circulation is absolutely irrelevant ... the truth is the truth ... just acknowledge you are wrong. 

 

 

[AlexRich]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Why should I do your work for you?

 

You are they one who claims that it is correct,not me.

 

You find the headlines or the links, or are you too lazy to do so?

 

You got what you asked for. Now if you believe that the opinion expressed in The Spectator is wrong, please provide facts to prove that, or are you too lazy to do that?

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

The UK is an uglier country since this vote, not a better one. As is the USA.

Well if those that are complaining and they actually started supporting the procedure for leaving the EU, it will be a lot more attractive. The only thing that is ugly, is the fact that some people, just can't accept the referendums result and move on. Quite a number of posters on here are an example, who are still campaigning for remaining in the EU. Just let me remind you. The referendum was in June 2016. The result was leave.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Orac]

Sounds like the brexit planning isn't going well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37983948

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well if those that are complaining and they actually started supporting the procedure for leaving the EU, it will be a lot more attractive. The only thing that is ugly, is the fact that some people, just can't accept the referendums result and move on. Quite a number of posters on here are an example, who are still campaigning for remaining in the EU. Just let me remind you. The referendum was in June 2016. The result was leave.

 

I think most people, myself included, have accepted the result, but we are not willing to just roll-over and let extreme right wing Tories set the agenda of what that exit will look like. And by the look of it neither will UK business and UK based overseas companies. That fight is only just beginning.

[SaintLouisBlues]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I think most people, myself included, have accepted the result, but we are not willing to just roll-over and let extreme right wing Tories set the agenda of what that exit will look like. And by the look of it neither will UK business and UK based overseas companies. That fight is only just beginning.

What's your plan? Handbags at 30 yards? You elect a parliament within which a government gains the confidence of the House, and you let them get on with the job. Five years later there's a general election and you decide all over again. UK businesses and in particular UK based overseas companies do not have a vote in parliamentary elections; one of the problems with modern democracies is that such unelected entities have too much influence because of the money they have and use. It's one of the reasons the Leave campaign won, and Trump carried the Electoral College - they are part of the elites who are perceived as holding modern government in their thrall, over against the "ordinary" people. Your next chance is the next UK general election

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, Orac said:

Sounds like the brexit planning isn't going well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37983948

 

The whole project is a shambles ... and we're beginning to fully understand why Cameron jumped on his horse and rode towards the sunset ... no exit strategy, no clear definition on what Brexit actually means, major disagreements with the cabinet,no resources available to implement. And the problem is that this will only exacerbate uncertainty, which is bad for business and consumer confidence.

 

May's style is to micro-manage and that approach is going to backfire on her. She's sold her soul to the Devil (i.e. Daily Mail support) and even at this early stage her honeymoon period is rapidly coming to an end. 

 

Before anyone discusses the fall of the EU they might want to look closer to home at this mess.

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

What's your plan? Handbags at 30 yards? You elect a parliament within which a government gains the confidence of the House, and you let them get on with the job. Five years later there's a general election and you decide all over again. UK businesses and in particular UK based overseas companies do not have a vote in parliamentary elections; one of the problems with modern democracies is that such unelected entities have too much influence because of the money they have and use. It's one of the reasons the Leave campaign won, and Trump carried the Electoral College - they are part of the elites who are perceived as holding modern government in their thrall, over against the "ordinary" people. Your next chance is the next UK general election

 

I think you'll find it's "Handbags at 30 paces"!

 

That's what we need ... tough talk from our cousins across the pond? Is Trump not part of the 'elites'? He's just a member of that club that cottoned on to dissatisfaction amongst poorer white Americans and capitalised on it. You think "The Donald" cares about the ordinary guy in the street? You're deluding yourself. He cares only for himself ... he's already backtracking on his rhetoric and I suspect that many of your fellow countrymen will be very disappointed with the outcome. 

 

You can't have a successful economy if it fails to support the business that create jobs. Business employs people who pay taxes, business pays taxes, those taxes fund government projects ... Maduro in Venezuela started screwing the Golden Goose, now the country is bankrupt. 

 

 

 

 

[Khun Han]

5 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

You are such a narrow minded person it beggars believe you can't see the truth. From today's newspaper. " he searched the internet for fascist groups and how to kill"

Get it idiot, fascist being you Brexit nutters and killing whilst shouting Britain first.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

Learn to read. All the extremist websites he was looking at are foreign ones, mostly American. He has no connection to the brexit leave movement, and the brexit leave movement has no connection to him. And try to get this very simple and very important fact into your head: he has a long history of of mental illness, and his obsession with extreme right wing (American) politics is an 'outfit' which 'dresses' his mental illness.

 

But remain don't want anyone to understand this. They desperately want to pin Jo Cox's death on the brexit leave movement, just as they desperately want the public to feel sympathy for Gina Miller and her fake 'vile abuse'. It's the most cynical of ploys: "You wouldn't want to be seen to be associated with any of that, would you?"; and has reduced remain and their desperate last-ditch campaign to the political equivalent of ambulance chasers. How totally morally bankrupt is that?

 

I feel sorry for the 'useful idiots' who propagate this cynical political ambulance chasing, believing it to be a worthy cause.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Khun Han

[SaintLouisBlues]

14 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

You can't have a successful economy if it fails to support the business that create jobs. Business employs people who pay taxes, business pays taxes, those taxes fund government projects ...

No disagreement there, but no country in the world has extended the franchise to businesses, and the money they throw around in support of their own rent-seeking is a corrupting element in a democracy. It's outrageous how few bankers have gone to prison as a result of the GFC