A Warning Pension Stopped

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, gwynt said:

What is a "Life certificate" anyway

 

Its the governments way of keeping track as to whether your alive or not. They are working on a skin implant for pensioners but it is not perfected yet maybe even an electrical stimulation collar. Heaven forbid that you should die and they make extra payments to a deceased person. They need that money to waste elsewhere. When you die they want to clean you out not have you owing them money which of course is hard to get out of a dead person in a foreign country. Welcome to the new world of "We want you to leave the same way you came with absolutely nothing nada zilch."

Edited October 28, 2016 by elgordo38

[Pattaya Wolf]

It seems different for different people I received one so far, but have friend and he has to fill in the form every 12 months. Had similar problems, with my company pension all correspondence goes to my sister in the UK who has Power Of Attourney for me. They asked for my address details which I confirmed for them; in the letter sent to my sister received on 29th Sept. 2016 that if the required info. was not received by the 10th Oct. my next payment would be delayed. My sister had to phone them to confirm, I did send an email and they  did respond about a week later to confirm everything was ok. I did ask them who gives them the right to stop payment in such a short time-scale, did not get answer.

[Suradit69]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Registered letter via EMS costs under 100 baht and is useful for returning the proof of life forms. In your case I suspect a series of overlapping communications is the root cause, I wouldn't worry too much, I've known UK government letters take three weeks to get here, from the date on the letter .

 

" Registered letter via EMS costs under 100 baht "

A registered letter might cost around Baht 100, but EMS is a separate matter and will cost a great deal more ... around Baht 1000.

[khastan]

Thank you all for your response. To the member who made the comment I could always get a job, I sincerely hope it was a joke.

To clarify.

I did send the Life Certificate back by registered post. It was tracked all the way to their Mail handling department in Wolverhampton. Their is no question it was not received there.

 

I have had an email in July from Newcastle informing me that they have received the Life Certificate and that my account has been updated. That should have been the end of the matter.

 

The letter states "their is no right of appeal about this decision". The envelope contained another Life Certificate which if not received back by the 23/01/2017 could result in the loss of my pension permanently. A pension which I have contributed to for over 44 years.

 

How can I now ensure that this does not happen again to the second Life Certificate. I have done everything possible to abide by their rules and ensure  my pension will be paid has normal, including tracking the Life Certificate to its destination, emailing tracking details to them. I have even received an email from them in July from the Life Certificate department informing me that my Life Certificate had been received and my account had been updated. That should have been the end of the matter, what more can you do.

 

The main reason for my post is to warn others receiving a UK state pension that this could happen to them no matter what you do including sending Life Certificates back by EMS or registered post, tracking said envelope and even receiving receipt and acceptance from the relevant department is no guarantee has my example has shown that your state pension will be paid as normal. The only time you will find out is when you get the letter informing you your pension has been stopped. Or in the case of no letter received when you check your bank account.

 

 

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Thanyaburi Mac said:

With interest??

 

Mac

Yes at the current rate of 0.05%, which will incur a  with-holding tax of 20%.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

Registered post does same as EMS for less than THB 100.

 

HTH

 

(EMS & RP aren't the same thing but from a users perspective there's little difference other than £)

"from a users perspective there's little difference"

 

A registered letter is sent as normal  airmail but with tracking and something sent by EMS will travel priority (Express Mail Service) and, in theory, arrive within a few days as well as being tracked. There is normally a great difference in speed, which may matter to some user's perspective, although once in the hands of the Royal Mail all bets are off.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Suradit69

[dabhand]

EMS does indeed sound pricey.

 

As an example I have just arranged a small document to be picked up by DHL (online booking) from my home in Pattaya with London as the destination. Cost is Bt864 with an expected delivery by Monday pm. I checked the cost for a similar small courier to the Wolverhampton address of the Pension office and it indicated the same cost of Bt864 with same delivery date.

 

Be warned though that, in my experience, using a drop off service at any DHL branch will be more expensive. Have used the DHL pickup service a number of times and, once they understand your precise location, it has been excellent.

[khastan]

With the greatest respect, whether using EMS or registered post for sending a Life Certificate back in my opinion and the example I have demonstrated  would not make the slightest difference to the guarantee that your UK state pension will be paid as normal.

[mercman24]

wow this useless lot sound a bit like the DVLA, when people sent in a driving licence and they returned it without the entitlement to ride a motorbike, then said it was the licence providers fault, when it was their mistake.

[gwynt]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

Life certificate is just someone in a position of authority stating you are still alive.

I have  had 2  now, both returned by standard mail no problems, pension still being paid ontime.

Ok thanks just never been asked and don't recall anyone else in my circle mentioning it so can only assume they have not been requested. ?

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, khastan said:

With the greatest respect, whether using EMS or registered post for sending a Life Certificate back in my opinion and the example I have demonstrated  would not make the slightest difference to the guarantee that your UK state pension will be paid as normal.

 

There is no problem with anything that you've done. Even to the point where they DWP even acknowledge everything is OK.

 

There clearly is a problem inside their process, a clerical error of some sort. 

 

What is become more and more obvious with all UK government interfaces - whether DWP, HMRC, Passports, etc etc.; whether outsourced or not, is the lack of personnel, the lack of robust systems and the ever increasing amount of mistakes made and then poor response in admitting and correcting the mistakes.

 

But hey, they'll produce statistics showing what a fantastic job they do!

[pennine]

7 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Registered letter via EMS costs under 100 baht and is useful for returning the proof of life forms. In your case I suspect a series of overlapping communications is the root cause, I wouldn't worry too much, I've known UK government letters take three weeks to get here, from the date on the letter .

My life letter took 12 weeks to arrive and it asked for a response within 8 weeks or pension would be stopped.

[chiang mai]

Yes apologies all I had not intended to say EMS, registered letters however are inexpensive and usually very reliable.

[bark]

2 hours ago, Sooo Upto Me said:

 

Do u ever give any helpful info on this forum Mr Grumpy?

If you have no money, you need to work. Love your neighbor.

[chris1010]

hi can someone let me have dwp email address  thanks

[performance]

Well these times of uncertainty really get the blood pressure Racing. leave the little lady home and toddle off to find the dirtiest little bit you can find and treat like your last night in the kingdom.

[Dumbastheycome]

Life Certificate.....?

Where I come from they only stop  paying if they  discover there is a  Death Certificate !

Gets  filed on Big Brother  along with  Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate, Tax Certificate  ( or is that  Tax  Number  ? ) , Passport  Number, departures  and duration  from home  country, driving licence demerit points, record of political voting preference ( despite  assurances of anonymity ), property titles in  name or  joint names,  credit  card  numbers, credit  history, banking records any criminal records, employment records, earnings statistics, spending statistics...and  probably what I  have for  breakfast.

All in the interest of  preserving the  illusion of a democratic  society.

 

Don't  panic  Mr  Mannering !~

 

[seabass69]

Computer says No...

[evadgib]

8 hours ago, khastan said:

Thank you all for your response. To the member who made the comment I could always get a job, I sincerely hope it was a joke.

To clarify.

I did send the Life Certificate back by registered post. It was tracked all the way to their Mail handling department in Wolverhampton. Their is no question it was not received there.

 

I have had an email in July from Newcastle informing me that they have received the Life Certificate and that my account has been updated. That should have been the end of the matter.

 

The letter states "their is no right of appeal about this decision". The envelope contained another Life Certificate which if not received back by the 23/01/2017 could result in the loss of my pension permanently. A pension which I have contributed to for over 44 years.

 

How can I now ensure that this does not happen again to the second Life Certificate. I have done everything possible to abide by their rules and ensure  my pension will be paid has normal, including tracking the Life Certificate to its destination, emailing tracking details to them. I have even received an email from them in July from the Life Certificate department informing me that my Life Certificate had been received and my account had been updated. That should have been the end of the matter, what more can you do.

 

The main reason for my post is to warn others receiving a UK state pension that this could happen to them no matter what you do including sending Life Certificates back by EMS or registered post, tracking said envelope and even receiving receipt and acceptance from the relevant department is no guarantee has my example has shown that your state pension will be paid as normal. The only time you will find out is when you get the letter informing you your pension has been stopped. Or in the case of no letter received when you check your bank account.

 

 

Issue a formal complaint via the pensions minister & see how quickly it rolls downhill :)

[khastan]

An Update.

 

I have now had a reply from Newcastle.

 

According to the lady that sent it the reason I received the letter and duplicate Life Certificate it was because and I quote"  The duplicate life certificate form and letter, stating your pension had stopped is an automated letter that is issued if we don’t receive the original within the time frame." This is not a true statement and they are lying. The Life Certificate they refer to was dated 12/06/2016. I was advised by email on the 21/07/2016 that my Life Certificate had been received and updated. This is well within the eight week period allowed for returning Life Certificates. There is no justification for sending this supposedly automated letter

 

I also find it very disturbing that if the letter sent was genuinely a automated reply that a government department primarily dealing with the elderly should threaten them in such a way. 

 

The most important thing is it goes on to say and I again quote " Your life certificate was received in the department and your pension payments are in place and you should be receiving them when you usually do."

 

I suspect by now that many members who could be affected are thinking I have fabricated the whole story. For proof and to demonstrate the dreadful treatment now meted out by this department to old aged pensioners I have attached the letter referred to.

Edited October 29, 2016 by khastan
mistake

[Jip99]

16 weeks now allowed for the return of the Life Certicate.

[khastan]

Thank you I am aware of that but on the original Life Certificate refereed to it stated quite clearly 8 weeks.

[perdido]

On 28/10/2016 at 3:22 AM, gwynt said:

What is a "Life certificate" anyway

 

...proof of the pensioner's continuing existence , I'd guess....

[4evermaat]

how often do you have to do this 'proof of life' thing?  (Is it random or at specific ages)?

[khastan]

I think it is every year after your 70th Birthday. Before you reach that age I think they pick on people randomly to send Life Certificates to. 

[billd766]

On 28/10/2016 at 3:25 PM, bark said:

If you have no money, you need to work. Love your neighbor.

 

If you are on a retirement extension you are forbidden by the Thai law to work. It is possible to be allowed to work if you have a marriage extension but then you have to find someone to give you a job.

 

Alternatively you can leave Thailand and get a B visa which allows you to work in a specific place but only if you have a job waiting for you and you are granted a work permit.

[Jip99]

23 hours ago, khastan said:

Thank you I am aware of that but on the original Life Certificate refereed to it stated quite clearly 8 weeks.

 

 

... as it also erroneously quotes out of date criteria for the certification.

 

 

I guess the Pension Service will update their forms eventually.

 

In the meantime there will be people who will insist that the forms have to back in 8 weeks and that you need an 'official stamp'.

[Jip99]

25 minutes ago, khastan said:

I think it is every year after your 70th Birthday. Before you reach that age I think they pick on people randomly to send Life Certificates to. 

 

More random than that.

 

 

I have friends over 70 who have never had one and friends under 70 who have had 2 in less than 2 years.

[thai3]

The whole process is entirely avoidable. In the UK these certs are not sent out as death certs trigger payments to cease. When UK deaths happen in Thailand the Embassy is informed, so all they have to do is pass the info on to works and pensions. In fact this would saved months, maybe years of over payment that they never get back when somebody dies here and relatives, or the useless Embassy say nothing. These certs are an imposition and a disgrace, pensioners should not be having to run around trying to prove they are still alive, no need for it.  

[khastan]

There is another hugely important issue at stake here to pensioners receiving a UK state pension. It would  appear that it is normal practice to stop a persons state pension, because they allege they have not received the Life Certificate back in the stipulated time. They send an important document out ie a Life Certificate via another country, not even requiring the recipients signature. So how is it possible they can even be sure the intended recipient has even received it in the first place. One very easy way would to inform the person concerned via email or sms that they had sent a Life Certificate. It could then be chased up by the recipient if not received, most of us have access to these forms of communication. However I suspect they would say that that is not a secure form of communication.!