Passport stamped 'Proof of residency and income next time'

[virgomjh]

Fellow Brit has done three back to back 60 day tourist visas obtained in Penang and last one expires on Sunday 7th Nov. He has just called me to say he got a stamp in his passport on last application saying 'proof of residence and income required next time'. He says he plans to go to Penang on Sunday and give his passport to a local agent there who claims that he will submit the application for him and get him another tourist visa for 5,000 baht. Sounds very risky to me and just wondering if anyone more experienced has any advice for him on this plan or other options. He is 57, single and has approx Bht1m in a Dubai account. I have suggested biting the bullet and returning to UK and getting a Non OA visa is probably his safest option, and he could apply for a new passport while he is there as he has only 3 blank pages left.  

 

[PoorSucker]

Non O-A VISA can only be obtained from country of residence,.

With that money in bank he can get a Non - O Multiple entry in Penang with the right agent, suggest him going to Jim's Place on Chulia Street.

[virgomjh]

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Agree that he will need to return to UK for OA. Also agree that it would be easier to get non O in Penang. But I thought to qualify for non O you have to be married to Thai or in receipt of state pension - he is 57 and single so if my understanding is correct he doesn't meet either requirement. Also, Non O from UK Thai embassy doesn't require proof of residence or funds - but maybe a Penang non O does, or it's the case that any non tourist visa will be acceptable to meet the rule? If you still feel that the right agent in Penang can get a result for him, please let me know and I will definitely pass this on to him.

[BritTim]

If he is comfortable staying at present on tourist visas, why not go to Vientiane, Savannakhet or Hong Kong where the stamp from Penang will be of no consequence?

[virgomjh]

Yes he would be happy with another tourist visa or any other way in that doesn't involve flying back to UK at such short notice. Sorry neither of us are not that experienced with this - I thought the stamp restriction on further tourist visas would be seen and applied globally at any Thai embassy or consulate. Are you sure Vientiane will ignore the Penang stamp - has anyone you know tried this in practice? He has to leave on Sunday so he's got a difficult decision to make on this - any reassurance on this option or the non O from Jims Place in Penang would be much appreciated! Just in case anyone is wondering why he hasn't dealt with this earlier his business in Dubai has just gone under and his thai gf who he has been with for ten years has recently died unexpectedly - he is a bit of a mess at the moment.

[BritTim]

I have never heard of a problem getting a first visa from Vientiane or Savannakhet, regardless of stamps from other consulates. I would regard Penang as a hugely greater risk, even with an agent's assurance that they can swing it. Savannakhet is the friendliest consulate in the region for getting most kinds of visas, including tourist visas. The argument against using it now would not be whether the application would succeed. It would be whether to reserve applications from there until he had bigger problems.

[virgomjh]

Thanks BritTim for the reassurance you seem quite confident he will be ok with Savannakhet option so I will pass that on to him.

 

This sounds like best option all things considered, but if anyone else has any views please can you let me know asap - he's only got a few hours to decide. He will be travelling from Nakhon Si Thammarat.

 

Would be good to know what happens in worst scenario and they don't accept the application - will he get a stamp saying visa refused or similar? Every application form asks whether applicant has ever had visa refused - how does immigration know whether you have been refused or not?

[BritTim]

I have never actually seen a tourist visa refused at Savannakhet. I have seen them refused in Vientiane, and seen a Non B application refused for lack of supporting documents in Savannakhet. In both cases, they refused to take the application. No stamps. No charge. The only time I think anything different could happen is if the visa was issued, but they then decided they had to cancel it for some reason (perhaps, issuing it in an expired passport or something).

[virgomjh]

Thanks again BritTim - sorry for long delay in replying I am in UK and long time difference. I have passed the info onto him and he has decided to go to Laos tomorrow to try for a tourist visa there. He has never been to Laos - which is easiest to get to from Nakhon Si Thammarat - Vientiane or Savannakhet? Presume he will have to submit application and collect  passport next day - any recommendations on guest houses? Given his mental state any guidance would be much appreciated.

[BritTim]

Easiest would be to fly from Nakhon Si Thammarat to Bangkok and on from there to Vientiane. He can do it on Air Asia. Leaving tomorrow,

NST 08:35  09:50 DMK

DMK 12:50  14:00 VTE

 

This is short notice, so a little more expensive than usual. He can then apply for his visa Monday. For his return, it may be more convenient to fly out Tuesday from Udon Thani (40 minutes or so from the Laos-Thai border) rather than waiting until Wednesday for a flight out of Vientiane.

 

I am a little short on time today. I think you can find guesthouse suggestions in Vientiane on other threads. Let me know if you get stuck.

[virgomjh]

Thanks for your info and help on this BritTim - I passed it on and he is in Vientiane. I will let you know outcome on Tuesday.

[elviajero]

14 minutes ago, virgomjh said:

Thanks for your info and help on this BritTim - I passed it on and he is in Vientiane. I will let you know outcome on Tuesday.

Please report back as it will help others.

 

Personally I would have avoided Vientaine with that stamp in my passport. Using the agent in Penang would, probably, have been the best option followed by Savannakhet.

[muzmurray]

5 hours ago, elviajero said:

Please report back as it will help others.

 

Personally I would have avoided Vientaine with that stamp in my passport. Using the agent in Penang would, probably, have been the best option followed by Savannakhet.

 

Why ? The stamp was issued in Penang, surely best to avoid there for a while ?

[elviajero]

10 hours ago, muzmurray said:

Why ? The stamp was issued in Penang, surely best to avoid there for a while ?

Because agents in Penang are well connected to the consulate and if they say they can get a fourth then there is a high chance they can. The stamp is advisory.

 

IMO going to Vientiane increases the chance of being denied a visa because, although they didn't issue the 3 visas or the stamp, they have been known to decline visas with that stamp in the passport. It is unknown how they would react to a stamp issued elsewhere, but I wouldn't take the chance when an option still exists in Penang.

 

I believe that once that stamp is in the passport, issued by any embassy/consulate, it increases the chances of being denied anywhere.

[rickudon]

Only 3 pages left in his passport also an issue. Laos visa one page, New thai visa one page ....... only one left and a couple of odd bits. IF he does get in, a new passport absolutely next step (and bare in mind how long it takes to get it, if not in UK).

[virgomjh]

Good news - he was granted another 60 day tourist visa at Vientiane. On this occasion it seems that Vientiane was willing to take a view and regard the 'proof of residence and funds next time' stamp restriction as relevant to further applications in Penang rather than a global restriction. He did pay a local agent B3000 to complete the application form submit it and pick it up for him - I guess its difficult to say whether this had any bearing on the outcome, or whether on another day it might have been refused. He didn't like the place and it was a lot more expensive than going to Penang but the end justified the means in this case, and he feels that it was the right decision rather attempting to apply again in Penang. Thanks to everyone for their feedback - especially to BritTim who pointed him in the right direction so quickly.

 

rickudon was right about the stamps taking up a lot of space - he is going to have to get a new passport quickly now. Would be grateful for any advice on best way to do this from Thailand and how long it might take at this time of year?

 

[rickudon]

In Thailand, you have to go to an office in Bangkok (trendy house?) and fill in a form there and provide all required docs, you then have to return there to pick it up. It could take a month ..... or more ..... so he should start on this straight away. Google for more info or one of the experts can probably give the low down. Some agents can help with the application, and pickup the new passport for you, but i think you have to be there for the actual application at the trendy building.

 

Alternatively return to UK when this new visa expires and do in the UK.

[Upnotover]

11 minutes ago, virgomjh said:

he is going to have to get a new passport quickly now. Would be grateful for any advice on best way to do this from Thailand and how long it might take at this time of year?

 

https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

 

Most reports through this summer (including my own) indicate a turnaround of less than 3 weeks.  May be slightly different now.  Easy process, no need to actually go to Trendy either for submission or collection but if Bangkok is not inconvenient then an agent serves little purpose.

[BritTim]

15 minutes ago, virgomjh said:

Good news - he was granted another 60 day tourist visa at Vientiane. On this occasion it seems that Vientiane was willing to take a view and regard the 'proof of residence and funds next time' stamp restriction as relevant to further applications in Penang rather than a global restriction. He did pay a local agent B3000 to complete the application form submit it and pick it up for him - I guess its difficult to say whether this had any bearing on the outcome, or whether on another day it might have been refused. He didn't like the place and it was a lot more expensive than going to Penang but the end justified the means in this case, and he feels that it was the right decision rather attempting to apply again in Penang. Thanks to everyone for their feedback - especially to BritTim who pointed him in the right direction so quickly.

 

rickudon was right about the stamps taking up a lot of space - he is going to have to get a new passport quickly now. Would be grateful for any advice on best way to do this from Thailand and how long it might take at this time of year?

 

 

For a UK passport renewal start here: https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports.

 

As stated, you make an appointment with VFS Global at Trendy Building, Sukhumvit Soi 13, Bangkok to lodge the application and collect the new passport. The application must be made in person: postal applications not possible. Officially, the process from lodging the application to receiving the new passport can be up to six weeks. In practice, it has over the last year only generally taken two to three weeks. Obviously, this is not very convenient for those who live a long way from Bangkok. Deputizing someone to apply on your behalf is possible.

[virgomjh]

Thanks everyone for the advice on passport application process which I have passed on and he will get moving on this quickly now. It is another pressure situation to deal with, but at least he will get a clean passport without the Penang warning stamp. Can anyone advise whether it will be safe for him to apply for next tourist visa in Penang with a clean new passport or is there some electronic record of the previous 'proof of residence and funds' warning that could cause a problem?

 

It seems that anyone hoping to live long term in Thailand is on thin ice if they are relying on tourist visas, and that he needs to start thinking about a more sustainable visa option asap. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that single guys aged 50-65 cannot qualify for a non O based on marriage or retirement, so the only option is for him to apply for a 12m OA from the UK initially using his UK savings as proof of income (which can be extended with a 12 month re-entry stamp near the end of that period), and then apply for 12m retirement extensions in Thailand after that with appropriate proof of funds in Thailand. Is this correct or is there a better way, assuming that he is unlikely ever to find long term employment in Thailand?

 

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, virgomjh said:

Thanks everyone for the advice on passport application process which I have passed on and he will get moving on this quickly now. It is another pressure situation to deal with, but at least he will get a clean passport without the Penang warning stamp. Can anyone advise whether it will be safe for him to apply for next tourist visa in Penang with a clean new passport or is there some electronic record of the previous 'proof of residence and funds' warning that could cause a problem?

 

It seems that anyone hoping to live long term in Thailand is on thin ice if they are relying on tourist visas, and that he needs to start thinking about a more sustainable visa option asap. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that single guys under 65 cannot qualify for a non O based on marriage or retirement, so the only option is for him to apply for a 12m OA from the UK initially using his UK savings as proof of income (which can be extended with a 12 month re-entry stamp near the end of that period), and then apply for 12m retirement extensions in Thailand after that with appropriate proof of funds in Thailand. Is this correct or is there a better way, assuming that he is unlikely ever to find long term employment in Thailand?

A new passport should solve the warning stamp problem as the consulates don't seem to keep electronic records.

 

If your friend is over 50 he can apply for a SE Non 'O' Visa from Penang (or Laos) as long as he has 800K baht in the bank (Thai or foreign), or a certified income of 65K pm. He'll be given permission to stay for 90 days and can apply for a 1 year extension of stay, within the last 30 (maybe 45) days, as long as the 800K is in a Thai bank for at least 60 days before applying, or he has a certified income of 65K pm, or a combination of the two totaling 800K.

 

In the UK, SE Non 'O' Visas are only available to those in receipt of state pension and ME Non 'O-A' Visas are available to over 50's.

[virgomjh]

19 hours ago, elviajero said:

A new passport should solve the warning stamp problem as the consulates don't seem to keep electronic records.

 

If your friend is over 50 he can apply for a SE Non 'O' Visa from Penang (or Laos) as long as he has 800K baht in the bank (Thai or foreign), or a certified income of 65K pm. He'll be given permission to stay for 90 days and can apply for a 1 year extension of stay, within the last 30 (maybe 45) days, as long as the 800K is in a Thai bank for at least 60 days before applying, or he has a certified income of 65K pm, or a combination of the two totaling 800K.

 

In the UK, SE Non 'O' Visas are only available to those in receipt of state pension and ME Non 'O-A' Visas are available to over 50's.

 

Thanks for your info - I thought the same rules would apply everywhere, but look like UK is an anomaly. Makes more sense that the non O entry visa requirement should be in line with the 12m extension requirement! This sounds a better option for my friend than flying back to UK for a non OA! 

 

So am I correct in saying that a single 50-65 year old man living in the UK who can meet the income requirement but is having trouble obtaining the medical certificate for a non OA or who is looking for a simpler option to the OA, can simply fly to Penang and get a non O from there, followed by a 12m retirement extension in Thailand?

 

You say the funds can be held anywhere at the time of the non O application in Penang. What evidence is required - 3 months bank statements from the applicants bank plus a bank letter? My friends funds are in Dubai - is English ok or are Thai translations of any of the application docs required?

 

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, virgomjh said:

So am I correct in saying that a single 50-65 year old man living in the UK who can meet the income requirement but is having trouble obtaining the medical certificate for a non OA or who is looking for a simpler option to the OA, can simply fly to Penang and get a non O from there, followed by a 12m retirement extension in Thailand?

 

You say the funds can be held anywhere at the time of the non O application in Penang. What evidence is required - 3 months bank statements from the applicants bank plus a bank letter? My friends funds are in Dubai - is English ok or are Thai translations of any of the application docs required?

Yes.

Just a bank statement, in English or Thai, showing the equivalent of 800K baht. No bank letter or translations required.

[virgomjh]

On ‎09‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 6:38 PM, elviajero said:

Yes.

Just a bank statement, in English or Thai, showing the equivalent of 800K baht. No bank letter or translations required.

Thanks for confirmation. My friend didn't have sufficient funds in hand to consider this option last time hence the trip to Vientiane for another tourist visa. The funds will be there to qualify next month so non O from Penang is best option for him next time and he asked me to thank you for the advice.

 

It does seem very odd that Thai embassies and consulates in UK require proof of receipt of state pension to qualify for non O which effectively forces 50-65 single guys into non OA route or tourist visa conversion to non O in Thailand (which looks equally complicated). Especially when it seems from your info that it can so easily be circumvented by stopping off in Penang to apply there. Any theories why Thai immigration are adopting this policy in UK?

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, virgomjh said:

Any theories why Thai immigration are adopting this policy in UK?

It is not an immigration policy. It is the Thai embassy in London policy.

They are just giving a break to those over 65 or over with a pension. The majority of embassies and official Thai consulate will not issue a non-o visa to those 50 or over to those applying in their home country. They will only do the OA visa.

 

[lostinisaan]

On 11/7/2016 at 5:47 PM, elviajero said:

Because agents in Penang are well connected to the consulate and if they say they can get a fourth then there is a high chance they can. The stamp is advisory.

 

IMO going to Vientiane increases the chance of being denied a visa because, although they didn't issue the 3 visas or the stamp, they have been known to decline visas with that stamp in the passport. It is unknown how they would react to a stamp issued elsewhere, but I wouldn't take the chance when an option still exists in Penang.

 

I believe that once that stamp is in the passport, issued by any embassy/consulate, it increases the chances of being denied anywhere.

 

 

 

 Which does make sense. 

[virgomjh]

On ‎13‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 1:40 AM, ubonjoe said:

It is not an immigration policy. It is the Thai embassy in London policy.

They are just giving a break to those over 65 or over with a pension. The majority of embassies and official Thai consulate will not issue a non-o visa to those 50 or over to those applying in their home country. They will only do the OA visa.

 

Thanks for explaining that. It seems reasonable to try to ensure that long term visitors enter on a route requiring a medical and police report as well as financial proof - perhaps UK should consider adopting a similar policy for all long term visitors including EU immigrants. It still seems a bit odd to me that 50+ applicants can circumvent the checks by simply stopping off at Penang and getting a non O from the Thai embassy there with just proof of funds. Can this non O with proof of funds be obtained in any foreign country or only at Thai embassies / consulates in countries local to Thailand?

[ubonjoe]

10 hours ago, virgomjh said:

Can this non O with proof of funds be obtained in any foreign country or only at Thai embassies / consulates in countries local to Thailand?

You would not be able to get it at a embassy or consulate in every country since some will only issue visas to citizens and legal residents of the country where they are located.

Not all embassy and consulates within the region will issue a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over.

It is possible to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry at some immigration offices based upon qualifying for an extension of stay for retirement. 

[virgomjh]

12 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You would not be able to get it at a embassy or consulate in every country since some will only issue visas to citizens and legal residents of the country where they are located.

Not all embassy and consulates within the region will issue a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over.

It is possible to get a 90 day non immigrant visa entry at some immigration offices based upon qualifying for an extension of stay for retirement. 

 

When you say a non O visa for being 50 or over, just to clarify, do you mean 50 or over with proof of funds? It has been suggested above that proof of funds means in this case just a single bank statement showing B800k funds deposited in any country. My friend is considering this option for his next entry and can see a logistical prob in getting an original bank statement from Dubai dated very close to the day of the application. I have read that some embassies / consulates ask for a same day ATM mini statement in addition to recent original statement but he is not sure he can get ATM printout from his Dubai bank in Penang. Any thoughts on this?

[BritTim]

Converting to a Non Immigrant entry at an immigration office in Thailand (at those offices where it is possible) requires funds deposited in a Thai bank account (or income attested to via your embassy).