work permit for remote work

[flipper2222222]

hi forum,

I am married to a Thai so expect to get a visa based on that. My current business is in computer network support and I remotely administer several hundred computers in Australia. My plan is to continue to do this in Thailand. I would be based in a home office, and also be connecting remotely to these computers in Australia via a laptop when out of the house.

 Is there a way to obtain a work permit so I am conducting myself in a legal way while in Thailand? 

If so could someone provide some tips on this process?

if not, what are the penalties if caught performing work this way?

 

thanks in advance

[ubonjoe]

In order to get a work permit you need to be working for a company or partnership.

After you get married you could setup a partnership (51/49%) with your wife and register it with a million baht of capital. Then hire 2 or 4 Thai employees (dependent where you are located) and apply for a work permit.

[elviajero]

I doubt the authorities would be that bothered by what you do, but if you were caught you could be prosecuted under Section 75 of the Immigration Act. http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

 

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the law concerned. 

 

Section 75 : Any alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(1) shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding 1 year or a fine not exceeding 10,000Baht or both. 

 

In addition you could be detained until prosecuted and deported, and possibly blacklisted.

[JackThompson]

At this time, no one is being prosecuted for remote-work - even those doing it openly, and even some caught red-handed.  But be aware, the labor-law statutes have not been updated to reflect the possibility of remote-work, therefore what elviajero wrote is correct.  The enforcement policy could change at any time, and if someone had it in for you, this activity could be reported.

 

Note that there is zero tax on money brought into Thailand, provided the money was earned in a prior year.

[flipper2222222]

thanks for the answers,

 

considering my work is dependent on many years of experience the employees in any such business would not be much value to me in regards to the IT support.

 

Could my wife and I setup a business for example a car wash have the employees doing manual labour, admin etc, and I work at the same location doing my remote support work? Or is there some stipulation of work duties in the permit that would preclude me from carrying out my remote support tasks?

 

or could the business be car wash and IT services?

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

thanks for the answers,

 

considering my work is dependent on many years of experience the employees in any such business would not be much value to me in regards to the IT support.

 

Could my wife and I setup a business for example a car wash have the employees doing manual labour, admin etc, and I work at the same location doing my remote support work? Or is there some stipulation of work duties in the permit that would preclude me from carrying out my remote support tasks?

 

or could the business be car wash and IT services?

The employees would not have to qualify for the same work you would be doing and one of the employees could be your wife. Your position could be as the general manager (or managing partner) with your duties called out to include what you will be doing.

Once the company or partnership is formed it can be evolved in more than one type of business activity.

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

thanks for the answers,

 

considering my work is dependent on many years of experience the employees in any such business would not be much value to me in regards to the IT support.

 

Could my wife and I setup a business for example a car wash have the employees doing manual labour, admin etc, and I work at the same location doing my remote support work? Or is there some stipulation of work duties in the permit that would preclude me from carrying out my remote support tasks?

 

or could the business be car wash and IT services?

Work permits are issued for a specific job/role. So unless the work permit was issued for the actual work you are doing you would still be working illegally regardless of how creative you are.

[Briggsy]

9 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

 

Could my wife and I setup a business for example a car wash have the employees doing manual labour, admin etc, and I work at the same location doing my remote support work?

Breaking Bad?

[elviajero]

20 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

At this time, no one is being prosecuted for remote-work - even those doing it openly, and even some caught red-handed.  But be aware, the labor-law statutes have not been updated to reflect the possibility of remote-work, therefore what elviajero wrote is correct.  The enforcement policy could change at any time, and if someone had it in for you, this activity could be reported.

 

Note that there is zero tax on money brought into Thailand, provided the money was earned in a prior year.

What you say is correct, however, note that the authorities seem to be giving short term 'tourists' a pass when it comes to remote work. If the OP has a permit to stay (live) here it opens a new can of worms.

[flipper2222222]

haha Briggsy, alas nothing that nefarious (great series), especially not in LOS! she did actually mention starting a car wash business. Just one of her many business ideas.

 

So if I understand  what I am reading from the experienced members.

 

I can start any business with the capital and employees and just list my legitimate activities  as part of the work permit application.

 

Correct?

 

thanks again

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

I can start any business with the capital and employees and just list my legitimate activities  as part of the work permit application.

 

Correct?

You can start/part own any legal business. If you want to be employed by that business you have to demonstrate to the Labour Department that your role is necessary. The WP would be issued for that role at a specific location. 

 

Not all jobs/roles are acceptable. Extreme example; you would probably get a work permit as a Director but not as Car Washer.

[hohososo]

In order to get a work permit you need to be working for a company or partnership.
After you get married you could setup a partnership (51/49%) with your wife and register it with a million baht of capital. Then hire 2 or 4 Thai employees (dependent where you are located) and apply for a work permit.

Ubonjoe, wouldn't moderating a forum be considered volunteering and require a work permit? You are basically educating the forum on Thai rules/laws for no compensation.

How is that different from someone volunteering to teach English to some local village children?

[stevenl]

Ubonjoe, wouldn't moderating a forum be considered volunteering and require a work permit? You are basically educating the forum on Thai rules/laws for no compensation.

How is that different from someone volunteering to teach English to some local village children?

The difference is Ubonjoe is invisible and no one knows who he is.

Sent from my ROBBY using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[digbeth]

So someone on a holiday with a visitor visa taking a phone call from work back home could be in breach of their visa conditions? 

 

So if the work someone do is in employ of an overseas business, wouldn't a business visa be more appropriate 
 

Visiting businessman on trips for their company back home do get non-immigrant B but no need for work permit is that correct?

[Don Mega]

1 minute ago, digbeth said:

 

Visiting businessman on trips for their company back home do get non-immigrant B but no need for work permit is that correct?

 

My old boss (many years ago) used to come visit his company  here twice a month as he was director of the company, He had a non B but not a work permit, no work permit was needed as he did no actual work whilst here (not even pick up a pen to sign a document).

 

[elviajero]

53 minutes ago, digbeth said:

So someone on a holiday with a visitor visa taking a phone call from work back home could be in breach of their visa conditions? 

 

So if the work someone do is in employ of an overseas business, wouldn't a business visa be more appropriate 
 

Visiting businessman on trips for their company back home do get non-immigrant B but no need for work permit is that correct?

By the letter of the law it could be argued that taking a work phone call is working  and does break the terms of the permit to stay, BUT there is no way Thailand would want to prevent someone keeping up with their business/work when on holiday or prosecute them. No visa or permit to stay is available for this situation. The law was written 37 years ago and is behind the times.

 

With the right supporting paperwork you can get a Non 'B' Visa that allows you to enter and conduct 'business' without a work permit.

Edited November 11, 2016 by elviajero

[flipper2222222]

hi list, a couple of follow up questions. 

 

1  In BKK is the requirement for a business 2 or 4 employees for me to get a work permit?

2  if I list myself as a Director, can I attend to my computing tasks as Director tasks?

 

thanks

Edited November 14, 2016 by flipper2222222

[BritTim]

14 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

hi list, a couple of follow up questions. 

 

1  In BKK is the requirement for a business 2 or 4 employees for me to get a work permit?

2  if I list myself as a Director, can I attend to my computing tasks as Director tasks?

 

thanks

 

Your job title would be Director or Manager. You job description would include, among other things, something like "liaising with and assisting overseas clients". That would cover you.

[flipper2222222]

thanks BritTim.

[thedemon]

These quasi legal methods being suggested for obtaining a work permit can potentially open you up to even more scrutiny.

 

Would you be prepared to route all the income derived from the Aus IT business through your Thai company and therefore pay Thai corporate income tax on the profit? And then you will need to receive a salary to qualify for your WP and be paid dividends to get the profit out of the company upon which you will need to pay personal income tax.

 

If you don't do the above then you are breaking Thai tax laws and still not fully complying with immigration and labour laws. I would rather have Immigration/Labour after me any day than the Revenue Department.

 

So what is the chance of being investigated by any of those agencies? Probably not that high, I would say. But then again I would ask myself what are the chances of attracting attention by working remotely from home earning all the income offshore. 

[flipper2222222]

The Demon, you make very good points, thank you.

[flipper2222222]

anyone know?

 

how many employees in BKK for one foreigner to get a work permit in a thai wife husband business?

 

2 or  4 ?

[BritTim]

26 minutes ago, flipper2222222 said:

anyone know?

 

how many employees in BKK for one foreigner to get a work permit in a thai wife husband business?

 

2 or  4 ?

 

It is supposed to be just 2, and I think in Bangkok will be.

[IMA_FARANG]

If Thailand was logical and consistant a remote worker using the internet for on-line work would be able to register as living in Thailand and being self-enmployrd in Thailand.

He or she would also b required to state their income, and be liable for what part of that legal income was earned through his or her work done in thailand.

For many IT professionals the taxes they owed to Thailand for such wotk would be lower than what they would pay  in their own country, as in genral the Thai tax rates are much lower than the same rates in their countries.

Therefore, an IT professional working legally in Thailand and earning income legally would be a win-win for both that IT professional and Thailand as both partners would benefit.

However as we all know very few things are logical and consistant in Thailand, and frankly the chance of any changes to work rules here  is near zero.

Even if those work rule changes benefited both the foriegn employee and the Thai tax authotities.

This is not a criticisim of just Thailand, i think world-wide rules and regulations are made first for the benefit of the local governments and not both the local govenment and the fortegn worker even when the benefits to both sides of co-operation are clear.

That applies not only to Thailand, but other countries as well.

including the U.S., the U.K. and others.

That is the nature of Human beings and it won't change soon.

Just my opinion.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2016 by IMA_FARANG

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, flipper2222222 said:

anyone know?

how many employees in BKK for one foreigner to get a work permit in a thai wife husband business?

2 or  4 ?

 

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

It is supposed to be just 2, and I think in Bangkok will be.

• It is supposed to be 4. It used to be 2 and if you're lucky the labour office that process the application might apply the old rules.
• Expect it be 4 and ask the labour office if you want a definitive answer.