TM30 (Again) How do Imm expect compliance?

[Mattd]

With regards to the TM30 reporting and the increasing need to do this, a couple of things spring to mind for me.

The regulation states that the house owners, head of the household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national

Granted that most hotel type of businesses will more than likely do this, however, there are ‘aliens’ that stay in private houses, whether this is with friends, girl or boyfriends etc.

99% of Thai householders are simply not aware of, or have ever been informed of these regulations, despite them being around for some time, why would they be, yet they are liable for a 1,600 THB fine for not complying.

I understand that ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law, but this does seem unjust.

99% of tourists visiting Thailand of course have no idea of this requirement, the TM6 does not mention it at all.

This requirement is being enforced more and more nowadays, several topics in TV in this regard, I just can’t quite get to grips with how the authorities expect proper compliance when it is not widely known outside of hotels?

Of course it would generate revenue via fines though!!

Whilst on the subject of hotels, it has been written in several topics recently (especially the Pink ID card ones) that folks (including me) use their Thai driving license to check in to a hotel, I know I’ve done this at several 5 star establishments in Bangkok etc. and it is never normally an issue, so my question is, how does the hotel report the guest in to the system in these cases (if indeed they do / can), that is assuming the system has the same information requirements as the TM30 form does, i.e. TM6 number, arrival date, point of entry in to Thailand, type of visa, expiry date of stay etc.  

My driving license has, in the past, even had the wrong passport number on it!

Lastly, for my own interest, what do you think would happen if a person had two active TM30 reports, so, one in the Bangkok area and one in Chonburi, with a TM28 for the Chonburi address, could the system handle that, or would one just cancel the other out?

As stated in a previous topic in the Pattaya forum, this would be for those, like me, who work in Bangkok during the week and go back to their main residence at weekends / holidays, proper TM30 compliance in these instances is just totally impractical!!

[BritTim]

Yes, the law is impractical as written. An additional issue you do not stress is that different officials interpret the law in different ways. Just be thankful that, for the most part, the law around the TM-28 form is not enforced.

 

Where completely contradictory circumstances arise, Thai officials will deal with it by a process of negotiation. Sometimes, Thai law even codifies that process. Did you know that Thai tax law incorporates the concept of a "negotiated alternative tax"? This allows officials at an appropriate level to determine the tax an individual or company should pay via a process of negotiation. This overrides any other stipulations in the tax code. 

[TKDfella]

I say at the start that what I've been doing might not be the correct method but I've had no problems. In the past 5 years I've moved six times and each time I've asked the rental owner to sign the TM 30, supply copies of house registration and ID cards and taken these to immigration myself within 24 hours. At no time was I told the the owner had to do it or be present. Interpretation of the Law?

[connda]

TM30 (Again) How do Imm expect compliance?

 

They don't expect compliance.  They expect <cha ching!> revenue.  The most lucrative laws are the ones that virtually nobody knows about. "That will be 1600 THB please!"

Edited November 15, 2016 by connda

[BritTim]

42 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

I say at the start that what I've been doing might not be the correct method but I've had no problems. In the past 5 years I've moved six times and each time I've asked the rental owner to sign the TM 30, supply copies of house registration and ID cards and taken these to immigration myself within 24 hours. At no time was I told the the owner had to do it or be present. Interpretation of the Law?

 

Almost everyone agrees that, as long as the form is correctly filled out with supporting documents, it can be lodged by anyone. The differences in interpretation come in other ways. Can you lodge the TM-30 form at the local police station if the immigration office is a long way away? Do you need to submit the TM-30 form again when you have been away? Who gets fined if the TM-30 form is not properly submitted? (Actually, on this last one, it is clear that it should not be the foreigner, but this happens because tracking down the householder would be a lot of work for the immigration officials, and travel to find the offender would not be reimbursable. Meanwhile, the foreigner has no choice but to pay up if he wants anything done.)

[balo]

If its only a 1600 baht fine , why even worry about it ? People relocate in Thailand daily , just forget it and if you have to pay a fine , it will not hurt you. The last 5 years I have lived in at least 20 places around Thailand and never been asked or signed TM 30. 

[whaleboneman]

I guess once you get caught you'll worry about it. I asked this forum about this recently and got some good replies (thanks by the way). However, as I was staying a long way from Sakon Nakhon, I never did make it to immigration. I'm pretty sure they don't have any real way of checking tourists as I have many nights stay at girlfriend's house and at hotels that don't ask for passport.

[Generalchaos]

Mattd, most Thais have absolutely NO IDEA what the regulations are regarding foreigners.

 

My sons headmaster would simply not believe me when I told him that if I didn't show immigration 400K Baht every year for my extension based on marriage that I would be given seven days to leave!

 

He was gobsmacked, he thought because I was married and had a Thai son I was welcome to stay.

 

How wrong he was.

[DerringDo]

Agree with Generalchaos.

 

Many people don't know the laws because it's not something they come into contact with. Even our local chief copper didn't believe me until I showed him the relevant references. His attitude was most foreigners don't cause trouble and I don't care what immigration rules are.

[bamukloy]

Thousands of farang mooving about the kingdom every day, 

and what? Maybe 3-4 reports of these fine given on this site?

 

Seems like you have better chance of struck by lightning,

 

Make me wonder if the few caught out so far have been the well known regulars that the staffers have to put up with time and again at the smaller offices.

 

The same species of buffalo,

 

fat, red faced,finger waving, loudly spoken billigerant type who is holding up the queue for 20 minutes when everyone seem to have no problem to get processed in 5 minutes 

[balo]

10 hours ago, whaleboneman said:

I guess once you get caught you'll worry about it.

 

No I won't , I'll just pay the fine , tell them I didn't know about the rules and move on in life. 

 

 

[NancyL]

5 hours ago, bamukloy said:

Thousands of farang mooving about the kingdom every day, 

and what? Maybe 3-4 reports of these fine given on this site?

 

Seems like you have better chance of struck by lightning,

 

Make me wonder if the few caught out so far have been the well known regulars that the staffers have to put up with time and again at the smaller offices.

 

The same species of buffalo,

 

fat, red faced,finger waving, loudly spoken billigerant type who is holding up the queue for 20 minutes when everyone seem to have no problem to get processed in 5 minutes 

 

My goodness, bamukloy, you should visit the Chiang Mai forum and read the TM30 thread, the thread on the Immigration office near the Airport and the thread on the Immigration office at Promenada mall.  There you'll find widespread discussion of enforcement of the TM30 requirement and numerous reports of people being fined.  "Maybe 3-4 report of these fine given on this site?"  Chiang Mai Immigration fines that many in a good hour for not having a TM30 on file!

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. 

[elviajero]

On 11/15/2016 at 5:06 AM, Mattd said:

Lastly, for my own interest, what do you think would happen if a person had two active TM30 reports, so, one in the Bangkok area and one in Chonburi, with a TM28 for the Chonburi address, could the system handle that, or would one just cancel the other out?

 

As stated in a previous topic in the Pattaya forum, this would be for those, like me, who work in Bangkok during the week and go back to their main residence at weekends / holidays, proper TM30 compliance in these instances is just totally impractical!!

• The new TM.30 report cancels the other one out. TM.28 reports are only needed if you permanently change your registered address.
• It is impractical, and I doubt many offices/IO's would insist that someone completes the TM.30 every time you change properties. As long as it's submitted for your 'main residence' that's all that is likely to be required.

[TerrylSky]

As duly noted this law and requirement is ridiculous. I host a variety of individuals at my house; it is feasible that I may have to go to the nearest police station everyday sometimes to deliver this completed form. What a pain in the ass, and why? Indeed, coming home from Laos a couple of months ago I overnighted in Chiang Mai before going home the next day. Later, when I extended my visa a couple months after that, they pointed out a printed log that showed I stayed overnight in CM without reporting it. So, evidently the guest house reported it, and they expected me to go to the police station or wherever and report it too! Talk about duplication and a waste of time! The immigration ladies politely excused my negligence but told me they expected more dessert cakes the next time I visited them.   So if my guests don't report their stay, and if I don't, who's to know? Of course my jealous idiot neighbours will know and THEY will report it. What a life.

 

[BlindMagician]

I don't stress over it.

 

If I go somewhere on a very temporary basis, such as a couple of nights visiting a friend in another part of the country, I doubt the authorities could ever know about such an event.

 

For 99% of the time, it's either someone loses problem (eg hotel) or my actual long term residence which is permanently in the system already.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, BlindMagician said:

For 99% of the time, it's either someone loses problem (eg hotel) or my actual long term residence which is permanently in the system already.

 

If you are unlucky with your local immigration, your long-term residence being in the system does not exonerate you from reporting your reappearance every time you spend more than 24 hours away from home. Those who are really lucky have local immigration who still do not care about TM-30 reports at all. There is no consistency.

[BlindMagician]

38 minutes ago, BritTim said:

 

If you are unlucky with your local immigration, your long-term residence being in the system does not exonerate you from reporting your reappearance every time you spend more than 24 hours away from home. Those who are really lucky have local immigration who still do not care about TM-30 reports at all. There is no consistency.

For the example case you quote, the TM 30 is not my problem is it.

I totally get this is a mad and impossible system.

My point was...don't stress.