Extension of stay (Tourist) not processed

[Briggsy]

Just come back from the Immigration Office. I was attempting to extend my permission to stay as a tourist from 60 to 90 days. This is not something I normally do. I regularly go back to the UK and get another visa while I am there.

The officer was pleasant but firm. The permission to stay date will not be extended until the condo where I stay inform them that I am staying there. I had provided a copy of the condo owner's ID card and a copy of my rental contract to the immigration officer but they wanted it from the horse's mouth, be that the owner of the condo or, in my case, the condo office acting as rental agent.

Strangely, the only address they had for me at immigration was for a hotel I stayed one night in in Nakhon Phanom, 700 kms away!

 

Anyway, I told the condo office and they (also nice people) were familiar with this. The condo doesn't have enough foreigners to warrant an online filing connection so the condo office staff have to regularly traipse down to immigration. They had on record an old informing of immigration about me but it was from years ago and is not on the immigration computer. I agreed with the condo office staff that next time I went to the immigration office, I would let them know first. The condo office is resigned to another 800 Baht fine and it is my fault, sort of.

[Lamkyong]

does the condo office have to pay for this imm online filing connestion   ??

[Briggsy]

13 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

does the condo office have to pay for this imm online filing connestion   ??

I have no idea.

 

Normally only hotels have this.

 

The bottom line is my condo doesn't have one.

[Briggsy]

Think of it this way.

 

A hotel with 20 rooms may get 10 new occupancies per day. That is 300 filings per month.

 

A condo with 600 rooms but only 50% occupancy and only 10% foreigners has only 30 foreigners. If on average they stay for four months. That is 7.5 filings per month.

 

That is why they don't have it.

[Lamkyong]

but if there is no cost involved  with the connection/data input  then i think maybe better tell them that   a bit of effort will save them at least 800 bht per year  no matter what the statistics/calculations  you make

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

but if there is no cost involved  with the connection/data input  then i think maybe better tell them that   a bit of effort will save them at least 800 bht per year  no matter what the statistics/calculations  you make

 

I think it is up to the local immigration office whether to help them set up an online reporting account. As with many other things associated with immigration here, while hotels are routinely supported, it may vary from office to office whether they allow condos an online reporting account.

[Briggsy]

Indeed, as Brit Tim explained and I speculated, this comes down to Immigration making demands first but not providing support or thinking things through in terms of how they will actually work in practice.

In my case, implying that it was my job as a foreign tourist to get my condo to report me and do it in a specific manner which may not even be possible (online reporting may be reserved only for hotels).

However, Lamkyong, if you have any information as to how this can be achieved in practice, I would love to hear. Any experience you have of setting up an online reporting system with immigration should be shared.

[paul18620]

1: Your condo owner should of registered you 24 hours prior to arriving in Thailand to avoid the 800 bhat fine as he/she is the one who has to pay 

2. Your extension should of not been decliend just because of this issue as you did nothing wrong .

3.Get the owner of the condo to go with you to the immigtration office ASAP with all the revelant things and it will all be reseloved.    

[Briggsy]

6 hours ago, paul18620 said:

1: Your condo owner should of registered you 24 hours prior to arriving in Thailand to avoid the 800 bhat fine as he/she is the one who has to pay 

2. Your extension should of not been decliend just because of this issue as you did nothing wrong .

3.Get the owner of the condo to go with you to the immigtration office ASAP with all the revelant things and it will all be reseloved.    

1. Yes, the condo office gracefully admitted their ignoring of this law as there are normally no repercussions.

2. Yes, it was annoying but the decision was out of my hands. Perhaps speaking Thai was a bad idea at the immigration office and raised suspicions I was a terrorist!

3. The owner of the condo is a rich Bangkok woman who I have never met. She owns numerous condos. The rental agents deal with everything. They have again gracefully said they will go to immigration and inform them. After they have done that, I will check with them first and then try again with my extension.

 

I do have other options.

a. Go to Savannakhet and get a new tourist visa.

b. Book a night in a hotel somewhere and extend my permission to stay at a different office, say, Pattaya.

 

 

[Suradit69]

12 hours ago, paul18620 said:

1: Your condo owner should of registered you 24 hours prior to arriving in Thailand to avoid the 800 bhat fine as he/she is the one who has to pay 

2. Your extension should of not been decliend just because of this issue as you did nothing wrong .

3.Get the owner of the condo to go with you to the immigtration office ASAP with all the revelant things and it will all be reseloved.    

"1: Your condo owner should of [sic] registered you 24 hours prior to arriving in Thailand"

 

How could hotels or condos register people 24 hours PRIOR  to arriving in Thailand if many hotel guests just walk in and ask for a room and even for those who have reservations, the hotels won't have passport information to give immigrations.

 

"2. Your extension should of [sic] not been decliend [sic] just because of this issue as you did nothing wrong ."

 

Many immigrations offices refuse to process extensions if this information isn't on file. Are you making up immigration rules of your own?

 

"3.Get the owner of the condo to go with you to the immigtration office ASAP with all the revelant [sic] things and it will all be reseloved"

 

He's already explained that he's talked to people at the condo.

[12DrinkMore]

12 hours ago, paul18620 said:

1: Your condo owner should of registered you 24 hours prior to arriving in Thailand to avoid the 800 bhat fine as he/she is the one who has to pay 

2. Your extension should of not been decliend just because of this issue as you did nothing wrong .

3.Get the owner of the condo to go with you to the immigtration office ASAP with all the revelant things and it will all be reseloved.    

 

Surely that is 24 hours after moving into the condo.

 

 

[paul18620]

8 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

 

Surely that is 24 hours after moving into the condo.

 

 

yes it is

I should of have written "after arriving in Thailand " rather than prior 

[12DrinkMore]

7 minutes ago, paul18620 said:

yes it is

I should of have written "after arriving in Thailand " rather than prior 

 

Feeling pedantic today, it is not "after arriving in Thailand" but "after moving into the condo".

 

 

[Briggsy]

I should have stuck to my rule of thumb which is to avoid immigration offices if possible nowadays. They are more trouble than they are worth and gone to Laos to get an SETV. They are very inconsistent and seek problems that don't exist in order to exert their authority.

[12DrinkMore]

2 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

I should have stuck to my rule of thumb which is to avoid immigration offices if possible nowadays. They are more trouble than they are worth and gone to Laos to get an SETV. They are very inconsistent and seek problems that don't exist in order to exert their authority.

 

Although going to Laos would have meant dealing with immigration twice in Thailand and twice in Laos, plus the SETV application. And Laos insists on plastering a full page sticker into the passport for another 1,000 (? can't remember exactly but I think it was about that last time I went to Laos) Baht or so.

[cnx355]

14 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

I think it is up to the local immigration office whether to help them set up an online reporting account. As with many other things associated with immigration here, while hotels are routinely supported, it may vary from office to office whether they allow condos an online reporting account.

See,s to me that Immigration Officers use the foreigners to force the Landlord to comply with the law.

 

A lot easier than going out after them to pay the fine. Let the  tourist or the expats do the job...

[alexlm]

In Pattaya, you can fill in your TM30 by yourself, 2 minutes before doing the 30 days Tourist extension...

I did my extension yesterday there

You need just one of the 3 following documents:

1 - Copy ID card of House owner

2 - Copy House Book

3 - Contract of Rent

Bring a picture + 2 sets of copies of first page, departure card and visa. Or you can easily get the picture taken and copies done directly at the immigration office.

Pattaya is very 'Farang'-friendly, with Farang staff.

-

If you stay one night in an hotel in Pattaya, ask them for a "paper for immigration/visa/passport" and they will surely understand and give a signed confirmation that you are staying at their hotel.

[Briggsy]

Thank you for the info Alex, this is a fallback plan.

[alexlm]

You tried Sri Racha immigration, right?

I should go there too because I'm in Chonburi City.

But the official in Sri Racha often do troubles about the TM30 or anything so it's better to travel to Pattaya/Jomtien for a night...

 

[Linden]

50 minutes ago, alexlm said:

In Pattaya, you can fill in your TM30 by yourself, 2 minutes before doing the 30 days Tourist extension...

I did my extension yesterday there

You need just one of the 3 following documents:

1 - Copy ID card of House owner

2 - Copy House Book

3 - Contract of Rent

Bring a picture + 2 sets of copies of first page, departure card and visa. Or you can easily get the picture taken and copies done directly at the immigration office.

Pattaya is very 'Farang'-friendly, with Farang staff.

-

If you stay one night in an hotel in Pattaya, ask them for a "paper for immigration/visa/passport" and they will surely understand and give a signed confirmation that you are staying at their hotel.

Often wondered about asking hotel for letter to confirm where I stay for making extension.(probably the backpackers do it via 500baht agent fee)

Anybody ever got the letter easily perhaps a hotel near Immigration in Pattaya, any past experiences?

A two night stay would be enough they are only asking where you are staying on that day I think.

Next years trip into the country I would put the same Hotel on my arrival T.M.

[TerrylSky]

I am at odds about this too. A few months ago I returned from Laos on a visa run and stayed 1 night in CM on my way back to CR. Upon extending my 2 mo tourist visa, the polite imm officers who know me, indicated that I failed to report my one night hotel stay. They gave me the new law that I was unaware of that started this year I guess. I happen to host (for free) a frequent number of travellers who visit me. It is, needless to say ridiculous and impractical - and incriminating - to have to photocopy their passports (or record their numbers and names on a  form) - traipse down to the nearest police post (who know nothing about this law - the immigration office is 30 km away) - and have each individual report the same - or face a fine. It's totally ridiculous, and why? To control and monitor our activities? To keep local officials busy? This bureaucratic behaviour is a waste of time and resources and smacks of Chinese paranoia in an effort to control the masses - but why? This added task - that is frequent for me - in addition to the impractical visa runs I am forced to make - continue to manifest a new home on distant, more friendly shores where I will take not only myself and my volunteer teaching activities (also forbidden w/o a visa) - and my money.  Chok dee nakhrap.

[BritTim]

Of course, it is not a new law. It is a new enforcement of the existing law, probably justified according to the literal interpretation of the law, but nonetheless ridiculously impractical. I think the Director General has at some point told immigration to be flexible in their application of this, but all that means is different enforcement for each immigration office.

[Privateer]

Last time I visited the wife's "village" the local police came round to check out the farrang, fill out a form, photograph passport, plus group photo.  All very amiable.  Would this meet the above requirements?  

Also, Terry|Sky reports being pulled up for not reporting a one night hotel stay - I thought that was responsibility of hotel and done routinely by them?

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Privateer said:

Last time I visited the wife's "village" the local police came round to check out the farrang, fill out a form, photograph passport, plus group photo.  All very amiable.  Would this meet the above requirements?  

Also, Terry|Sky reports being pulled up for not reporting a one night hotel stay - I thought that was responsibility of hotel and done routinely by them?

 

 

It is indeed the obligation of the housekeeper (not the alien) to submit the TM30 the clue is in the title of the form.

 

TM.30 Notification Form for House Master, Owner, or the Possessor of The Residence Where Aliens Have Stay

[Briggsy]

Update

 

The very nice lady in the condo office visited the Immigration to ask what needed to be done.

 

The Immigration informed her that as the condo did not inform Immigration of my arrival within 24 hours of my returning from overseas that

 

i) a fine of 800 Baht would be levied on her as the responsible person.

 

ii) she would need to sign that she had committed a criminal offence as a phoo tong ha.

 

This conversation was hypothetical based on what would happen if the condo office informed them I was staying there. (The ridiculousness of it all! All this just to extend a tourist visa stay for an extra 30 days!) Just to prove how ridiculous it all is, the immigration office makes compliance with the law optional! If you inform us, you will be fined, if you don't inform us, you will not be fined!

 

The condo asked me to pay the 800 Baht (which I don't have a problem with) but the condo office lady (a very nice and respectable woman) was not happy with the possibility of having a criminal record! To be honest, neither was I.

 

The condo office very nicely asked me if I would use one of my fallback plans that I had explained to them earlier and that in future we would consult before any need I have to visit the immigration office. I was happy to agree if only to save the woman in the condo office from becoming a criminal!

 

Could someone therefore kindly run through the documents required by Pattaya immigration to extend a tourist visa stay from 60 to 90 days. (even though Alexlm has done it all above)

 

I have so far :-

Passport

Photos

TM 7 (printed on two sides of one piece of paper)

Copies of pages in passport

1900 Baht fee

 

I understand I will have to get something to substantiate an address in Pattaya otherwise they will send me back to Sri Racha. Is that correct? Or maybe not as they both fall under Chonburi immigration, maybe it will be ok.

 

[IMA_FARANG]

She is in violation of some tax laws and is avoiding taxes on the income she gets on short term rentals.

The law is clear the owner or mangaer of the property is required to notify the proper authorities whenever a foriegner stays longer than 24 hours in their building.

Mony Thai landlords either do not know this, or simply don't pay attention to the law.

Like many things in Thailand, don't rock the boat, if it is not seen it was never done.

As Bart  simpson says, "You didn't see me do it so it is not my fault, anyhow.

 

[Briggsy]

1 minute ago, IMA_FARANG said:

She is in violation of some tax laws and is avoiding taxes on the income she gets on short term rentals.

The law is clear the owner or mangaer of the property is required to notify the proper authorities whenever a foriegner stays longer than 24 hours in their building.

Mony Thai landlords either do not know this, or simply don't pay attention to the law.

Like many things in Thailand, don't rock the boat, if it is not seen it was never done.

As Bart  simpson says, "You didn't see me do it so it is not my fault, anyhow.

 

 

Your post is nonsense. You have not read the thread which is very clear properly.

 

"She" is an employee of the condo and is not in receipt of the rental income.

"She" is not in violation of any tax laws.

 

If you read the thread properly, you would see she is aware that she has technically failed to report but that the system is impractical.

 

Your post adds nothing but a holier than thou, sanctimonious and inaccurate preaching to this thread.

 

 

[Briggsy]

Precisely the same paperwork.

Precisely the same goal.

2 different immigration offices.

 

Office 1 : Extension not given, threat of fine (ultimately passed back to me) and considerable inconvenience for condo staff.

Office 2 : All achieved in under 30 minutes with no fine or any belittling or hectoring.

 

I chose office 2 and will do so again in the future.

[Maestro]

Some immigration officers appear to have been badly trained or are intellectually unable to understand and correctly implement the rules and guidelines they have been given.

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