Wanna Buy A Camera

[Briggsy]

I wonder if anyone can advise me. I've never owned a digital camera and am completely clueless.

I've been round the shops and priced up some models and noted their megapixels and optical zoom but other than that I don't know what I'm buying.

I want to be able to take a decent picture of a sparrow from 5m away. This is my minimum requirement. Other than that, I just want to load these pictures on to my computer. I don't think I need to have a digicam to take video but if it's included at the right price I'll have it.

To give an idea of price, I don't want to spend more than 15000B = 400$. I saw a Fine Pix S5600 5.1 MP X10 Optical Zoom at 12600B.

Can anyone give me any pointers particularly in terms of what the camera can and can't do.

Thanks for your help.

[markuk]

I have just brought the Canon A640 and it seems great, not as good an optical zoom though.

http://www.canon.co.th/index.php?action=digital〈=en

paid less than 15k for it in Emporium.

[Briggsy]

Thanks for the reply.

I couldn't find it on the link you provided. There was an A620 though.

How much did you pay for it?

In what ways is it great? Would it pass the all-important sparrow test?

Cheers

Briggsy

[ourmanflint]

I would be surprised if a compact digi could do what you're asking. To get a good pic of something the size of a sparrow even from 5m away is no mean feat, you would need the equivalent of a 300mm lens on an SLR to do it I would think.

[markuk]

Thanks for the reply.

I couldn't find it on the link you provided. There was an A620 though.

How much did you pay for it?

In what ways is it great? Would it pass the all-important sparrow test?

Cheers

Briggsy

its def there on the link go to right hand side, powershot opens up a new set of links, close to the bottom with "New" in red Powershot A640. I paid 14,800 for it in Emporium but it only has a 4x optical zoom

[Tywais]

I would be surprised if a compact digi could do what you're asking. To get a good pic of something the size of a sparrow even from 5m away is no mean feat, you would need the equivalent of a 300mm lens on an SLR to do it I would think.

300mm on an SLR is equivalent to about a 6X zoom. The more MP the less sensitive the zoom is required for the same cropping factor.

[Briggsy]

Markuk

Oops sorry, yes, didn't see it there. I don't think this is the spec I'm after though.

Cheers anyway, through elimination I get closer to knowing what I should get.

Ourmanflint

You sound like you know your onions! I've read that lenses are v. expensive. Just googled it. I'm in shock. SLR digicameras cost around 20,000฿ and 300mm lenses around 10,000฿. If this is the case, I might well abandon this project.

What I really need to do is view the results of some cameras.

Thanks for the advice.

[Briggsy]

I would be surprised if a compact digi could do what you're asking. To get a good pic of something the size of a sparrow even from 5m away is no mean feat, you would need the equivalent of a 300mm lens on an SLR to do it I would think.

300mm on an SLR is equivalent to about a 6X zoom. The more MP the less sensitive the zoom is required for the same cropping factor.

So would 5.1 MP with 10X zoom cut it for the sparrow test?

If you could give me an idea, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks, Briggsy

[thecottonmill]

Hello mate,

I'm a bit of a camera hobbyist! I just bought my mum a compact digital camera - the Pentax S6. 6mp, 3x zoom for 7000baht. Brilliant little thing in a tiny package. It's amazing what you can get for the money these days. But I dont think that's the one for you.

The Fuji you're looking at is pretty old now but it's a very good camera all the same - you can actually buy it in the UK for around £120 - which is about 8500baht here. Which for me is more like its true value.

The most imp thing about a digicam is actually the lens (and matching digitising bit) itself - go for a camera with a good lens that lets in good light. If it's an electronics company making the camera (as opposed to a traditional camera company like Canon or Nikon make sure the lens is a branded lens. The Megapixels are important but 5 (as on the Fuji) is fine if the lens is fine (as on the Fuji).

re: zoom. Digital zoom is pointless. The more optical zoom the better but make sure it has some antishake technology in there otherwise you'll need to drag a tripod everywhere.

For me the Panasonic range with a Leica lens is really excellent. I've been really surprised by the quality. Have a look at the Panasonic FZ7 - 12x optical zoom, 6mp, automated so you can get strated right out of the box. And everything's there in one package like the fuji - it's not a proper SLR but it's a ###### good camera! On ebay a package price is about 15000 baht

A very compact alternative to this is the DMC-TZ1 by Panasonic - 5mp, 10x optical zoom. ebay package prices about 11000.

Anyway, before you buy anything I'd go to the best digicam website around: www.stevesdigicam.com. Find any camera you like and go to the review there - it's pretty indepth and you get sample photos for each reviewed camera - zoom in on them to see how the colours match or how grainy they are and after a few hours you'll find the perfect one for you.

Good luck!

[Briggsy]

Cheers Cotton

You've given me lots of stuff to work on here. Someone mentioned that cameras are more expensive here than in the Uk. So once I've decided what I want I'll shop around for the best deal.

I think I'm getting closer.

Thanks, Briggsy

[astral]

Someone mentioned that cameras are more expensive here than in the Uk.

I am not sure that is true but do check it out.

There are useful links here for Thailand prices.

A great deal depends on where you live for the majority of the time

and what kind of guarantee coverage you are offered. i.e. Local v Worldwide.

[gpt]

My son-in-law is an avid bird watcher and uses the Fine Pix S5600 and is happy with the results

[Briggsy]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I'll see if I can find a cheaper price for the Fuji Fine Pix S5600.

Cr*pping myself now that the time to part with the cash is approaching!

[thecottonmill]

Thanks for all the help so far.

I'll see if I can find a cheaper price for the Fuji Fine Pix S5600.

Cr*pping myself now that the time to part with the cash is approaching!

To prove the price point...

Here's the argos link for the fuji 5600. £112.49 which I believe is about 8000 baht.

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/s...archTerms=s5600

Cheers

John

[Briggsy]

Wow thanks, you've really pulled out the stops for me.

I've just been ploughing through Panasonic review sites and you've nudged me towards the more recent DMC-TZ1. It seems to have what I want, particularly the image stabilization is helpful. Its more compact size may suit me more than its larger superzoom peers. I am still a little apprehensive over how powerful the zoom is in practice.

Pix-One on Ratchada have it priced on their website at 11,100. That also suits my budget.

Today is a holiday so I'll go and see what prices are offered in the shops. Might even take the plunge and buy it.

Cheers

Briggsy

[fred110]

Wow thanks, you've really pulled out the stops for me.

I've just been ploughing through Panasonic review sites and you've nudged me towards the more recent DMC-TZ1. It seems to have what I want, particularly the image stabilization is helpful. Its more compact size may suit me more than its larger superzoom peers. I am still a little apprehensive over how powerful the zoom is in practice.

Pix-One on Ratchada have it priced on their website at 11,100. That also suits my budget.

Today is a holiday so I'll go and see what prices are offered in the shops. Might even take the plunge and buy it.

Cheers

Briggsy

There is a Photo Fair at BITEC Dec 8 to 11, I also want the Panasonic TZ1 or maybe the PAn. FZ7 (12x optical zoom, ISO, etc)

[redbicycle]

I have just brought the Canon A640 and it seems great, not as good an optical zoom though.

http://www.canon.co.th/index.php?action=digital〈=en

paid less than 15k for it in Emporium.

Hi ,

I just bought my Canon a 640 today, i use the cd to down load the drivers but the camera window just dun appear(on first time loading pix) I have try start->allprog->canon utilities-> camera window. Its just doesnt' work, what should i do ?? thanks

Rb

[ourmanflint]

Just checked out the Fuji and yes with a 10x zoom it might just... just do the job! The lens is the 35mm equivalent 38-380mm so it will get wobbly at the top end and assuming the closest focus at 380mm is 1-2m then you might get a decent picture of a sparrow. But it's not gonna fill the frame or anything like that. Whatever anyone tells you anywhere photographing birds with anything less than a 500 mm or equivalent is very diificult even from 15 feet away.

Good luck though!

[astral]

With a 12x zoom, you will probably need a tripod as well to avoid shake.

[Briggsy]

Well, I bought a DMC-FZ5 at Pantip. Unfortunately I missed Fred's message about the photography fair.

Price was a considerable factor in the end. The TZ1 could not be found in Pantip or any regular electrical shops under 17,000 B. The difference between the FZ7 and the FZ5 was 4,000 B; 13,900 and 9,900 respectively. One vendor suggested they might be clearing stock of FZ5 which is not really a new camera any more.

Thanks to Flint and Astral for your comments. I'll go and see what results I can achieve. I didn't get a tripod. This can be added later if required.

Thanks to everybody for all your helpful comments.

[paulydasy]

If you get a tripod, try to get one with a gear head. Once you've used one, you'd never know how you can live without one.

Edited December 7, 2006 by paulydasy

[TomBrown]

Congratulation Briggsy on your camera purchase.

All the Panasonic cameras over the years have benefited from a feature called Image Stabilization (IS), which reduces the effect of shaking camera and allows you to capture a good shot that might have otherwise have been unusable without IS. This is especially true when you zoom all the way into a subject, as the effects of camera shake is also magnified at greater zoom. It is only recently that other photo camera manufactures like Canon, Nikon, Sony etc are now providing the IS feature in their 'fixed' lens cameras, a feature which of course has been in their video camera products for years.

Certainly as others have pointed out, a tripod is great for steady shots, but you can get great shots without the tripod and IS switched on. From personal experience, I have found that many friends (both western and Thai) that I have lent previous cameras that don't have IS, have taken some really unusable photos. For those same people who now use cameras with IS, the photos are more than 90% fine.

Some people say that a downsides to having a camera with Image Stabilization switched on is that it uses a little more power as it's always working to keep the shot steady. Personally I haven't seem that much of a difference in power usage.

As well as Steve's DigiCams web site, another good resource is Digital Photography Review found at www.dpreview.com

One point I'd make about digital cameras, which really depends on camera choice / what you are taking photos of, is the ability to fit 'filters' onto the end of the camera lens. Many people will leave a 'clear' filter or 'sky light' filter on to protect the actual camera lens. If the filter gets damaged, it's cheap to replace. Not all cameras have a screw thread to allow for filters to be placed on the lens, though some have optional housing kits that can allow filters.

A couple of tips (both I've had personal experience of);

1. Write on a piece of paper your name, address, camera serial number, include a printed photo of yourself, and take a photo of it all with your new camera. Always leave that photo on the memory card, a second copy of the photo on the cameras' own built in memory if it has one. If the camera gets stolen, there is a chance that it could be returned, or any disputes over ownership can be sorted by review of details on the camera's screen.

2. Particular to fixed lens cameras and point and shoot cameras; When you are finished using the camera switch the dial to 'preview' or 'play' mode before putting the camera away. If for some reason the camera is accidentally switched on when in your bag or pocket, the lens will stay shut because it is not in a mode to take a photo. This can save possible damage to the lens glass and to the zoom motor mechanism. I can't confirm that all camera lenses stayed closed in preview/play mode.

Happy snapping.

Tom.

[paulsworld]

You're not going to get much for birding at the price you want to enter in. There are some Sony type digi cams that have some tele extenders for the lens that could get you in there.

Personally I'd go with a used older DSLR like a D70 (nikon) or a 20D (canon...heck a 10D might be had for around 500 bucks these days if you look around)....then if you're shooting outside in the sun a lot you can get a nice budget tele zoom like the Canon 70-300...with the digital crop of 1.6 and the length of the lens you could do some nice birding...but only in ample light without a tripod.

Paul

[astral]

Tele extenders are not a good idea.

Generally they degrade the quality of the prime lens and loose a stop or more as well.

Good luck with photographing the sparrows, or even the greater and lesser tits.

Edited December 14, 2006 by astral

[Briggsy]

This is the sparrow. A house sparrow taken from my hotel balcony in Vientiane at a little more than 5 metres. This is a hand-held shot. With a tripod and more experience, I'm sure I can do better.

I'm having fun on the learning curve!

[RAZZELL]

This is the sparrow. A house sparrow taken from my hotel balcony in Vientiane at a little more than 5 metres. This is a hand-held shot. With a tripod and more experience, I'm sure I can do better.

I'm having fun on the learning curve!

I think you need a longer lens...or learn how to use the crop tool

Enjoy your hobby

RAZZ

[Briggsy]

Is this what you mean by the crop tool? This is the same photo.

I'm sort of playing around in the dark on ACDSee Pro Photo Manager.

Thanks for the hint.

[astral]

Looking at the cropped version, I am not sure where the point if focus is.

It appears to be on the tiles closer to the bottom of the frame.

The overal image is soft, even on the full frame shot.

Try a smaller aperture to improve depth of field and clarity.

PS to make crops in this way, it is good to start with bags of pixels......

[Galong]

Buy a spotting scope and an attachment to clamp your camera's len to the eye-peice and you'll get the quality of photos that is usually reserved for those with deep pockets (big $). It's called 'digiscoping' and it's all the rave in the birding community.

[Briggsy]

Buy a spotting scope and an attachment to clamp your camera's len to the eye-peice and you'll get the quality of photos that is usually reserved for those with deep pockets (big $). It's called 'digiscoping' and it's all the rave in the birding community.

This is probably the way to go but those scopes don't come cheap.

Cheers for the advice.