The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[F4UCorsair]

On 11/21/2016 at 7:14 PM, Jingthing said:

We have the constitutional right to dissent. Accept that. Reality plain and simple. 

 

Accepting that he will be our president is not the same thing as worshiping him, Il Duce style. 

 

I accept that he legally won, even though Hillary Clinton now leads in the popular vote by about 1.7 MILLION votes. 

 

 

The popular vote is IRRELEVANT.   The electoral system does not rely on the popular vote.

 

Of course, everybody has the constitutional right to dissent, just as I have the right to bash some dude over the head if he blocks my way whilst demonstrating.  Inconveniencing the bulk of decent, responsible people, is not the way to sway others to be sympathetic to your cause.

[F4UCorsair]

9 hours ago, Rob13 said:

 

Problem going on today is the money is piling up at the top, causing the middle class to shrink. The number of people just getting by is increasing. Makes for a lot of angry people like you're seeing now.

 

A guy stocking shelves going from pay check to paycheck trying to provide for his family can't help but be angry when he sees top level execs handing themselves multi-million dollar year end bonuses, while he doesn't even get a few cents raise. The way I see it Adam Smith's invisible hand capitalism has pretty much run it's course. Unless those at the top are willing to curtail their greed enough to let the middle class begin to increase it's numbers again.

 

A CEO being paid $10 Million a year could work for nothing and his income be shared among the workers and it would make little to no difference.  He would be heading a company that probably employed 20,000+ workers, so they'd get $500 each.  $10.00 a week..... a couple of capuccinos??

 

It would make not a dot of difference to the share price, and it wouldn't employ more people.

[Jingthing]

Some early leaders in the LONG and difficult anti-trump resistance ahead:

 

The Resistance Fighters Who Will Stand Up to the Deplorables

In the wake of Donald Trump's election as president — something we can still hardly believe — we've been encouraged by the progressive voices rising against Trump and his agenda.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/11/22/resistance-fighters-who-will-stand-deplorables

Edited November 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

The popular vote is IRRELEVANT.   The electoral system does not rely on the popular vote.

 

Of course, everybody has the constitutional right to dissent, just as I have the right to bash some dude over the head if he blocks my way whilst demonstrating.  Inconveniencing the bulk of decent, responsible people, is not the way to sway others to be sympathetic to your cause.

No, sir. It is not irrelevant. Hillary Clinton, who would have been a MASSIVELY BETTER choice for president, actually did make history with this election. Her POPULAR VOTE win was WAY BIGGER than ever in history for a candidate that lost the election by electoral vote. trump, the authoritarian tweeter (gaining the well earned rep as President Troll) is claiming a mandate. NO MANDATE! The resistance won't shut up about that fact, so don't even bother. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Jingthing

[F4UCorsair]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No, sir. It is not irrelevant. Hillary Clinton, who would have been a MASSIVELY BETTER choice for president, actually did make history with this election. Her POPULAR VOTE win was WAY BIGGER than ever in history for a candidate that lost the election by electoral vote. trump, the authoritarian tweeter is claiming a mandate. NO MANDATE! The resistance won't shut up about that fact, so don't even bother. 

 

The electoral system isn't based on the popular vote.  You can bleat all you like about popular vote, but that is not the existing system.

 

If the position had been reversed, and Trump had gained more popular votes than Clinton, your silence would be deafening!! 

 

Get over it.....Democrats LOST, Republicans WON.   Both ran dirty campaigns, nothing to be proud of, but it's Trump who is President elect, not Clinton.  The resistance will grow hoarse, and NOTHING will change.

 

You will begin to hate the system, the government, then each other, and finally yourselves.

Edited November 22, 2016 by F4UCorsair
addition.

[Jingthing]

You don't get it. It's not about overturning the result. It's about pushing back  against the trumpist false narrative that they have a mandate. That remains relevant whether you like it or not. Obviously not but that's your problem. 

[F4UCorsair]

48 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You don't get it. It's not about overturning the result. It's about pushing back  against the trumpist false narrative that they have a mandate. That remains relevant whether you like it or not. Obviously not but that's your problem. 

 

I find when somebody says to me, "You don't get it", it is an offensive term implying that the person you address is a bonehead.  I "get it" completely.

 

My understanding is that a mandate is the result of the election.  He gained more STATES, and that is what the system is based on.  The number of states was a majority, and THAT is a MANDATE!!

 

We obviously disagree on what a mandate constitutes.

 

But be that as it may, what good will come from the 'resistance' "pushing back" against the Republicans' contention that they have a mandate???  Apart from frustration that is.  It will change nothing.  Trump is the President elect, and you can bang on about mandates, but that will not change.

 

When an element of the population, those who lost, refuses to accept the outcome of a democratic process, it may easily be sowing the seeds for civil war.  They have occurred over a lot less.

 

Please explain to me what good will be achieved by 'pushing back' against the "false narrative".  

 

I have to say, you have all the cliches at your fingertips.

Edited November 22, 2016 by F4UCorsair
spellcheck

[Rob13]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

A CEO being paid $10 Million a year could work for nothing and his income be shared among the workers and it would make little to no difference.  He would be heading a company that probably employed 20,000+ workers, so they'd get $500 each.  $10.00 a week..... a couple of capuccinos??

 

 

You're construing a scenario to fit your arguement. The real issue is the middle-class is shrinking, the numbers of people barely getting by are increasing while the elite are raking in billions. A shrinking middle class is a sign that the system is failing. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Rob13

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Some early leaders in the LONG and difficult anti-trump resistance ahead:

 

The Resistance Fighters Who Will Stand Up to the Deplorables

In the wake of Donald Trump's election as president — something we can still hardly believe — we've been encouraged by the progressive voices rising against Trump and his agenda.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/11/22/resistance-fighters-who-will-stand-deplorables

 

Apparently the Left is mistaking reality for a movie script.

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, Rob13 said:

 

You're construing a scenario to fit your arguement. The real issue is the middle-class is shrinking, the numbers of people barely getting by are increasing while the elite are raking in billions. A shrinking middle class is a sign that the system is failing. 

 

Nothing about the Obama Administration helped to turn this trend around. 

 

The democratic party used to be the Party for Labor and the Unions (the working middle class). They stopped some time ago and pursued the wefare vote and they dangled free government programs to assure votes.

 

Middle class has always abhorred the welfare class. They continue to do so and the Republican party now fell more in line with their views.

 

The middle class were a victim of obamacare not a beneficiary. 

 

Regsrdless, the election is over. Trump won. The zleft needs to et over it. 

 

If the Left thinks that they have a right to cause fear amongst the Americans who voted for Trump (and that is what they are saying) and the Americans who have accepted their loss and just want to get on with the task of going to work and feeding their family then they are sadly mistaken. 

 

 

 

 

[Strange]

18 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Edit - posters seem unable to differentiate between the 'far right' and the 'left'.....

 

It seems more likely that a large number of Democrat voters voted for Trump because he was their only chance of change from the status quo.  And let's be honest, as in the UK, the different parties were indistinguishable from each other - caring only about their own financial interests that co-incided with corporate financial interests.....

 

2 Things  

 

1) Im American, and trust me I know full well what the difference is between the far right and far left. What you 'think' as a foreigner will inherently be different. You are not a political advisor with superior knowledge than anyone else, and frankly, what would you know? The only thing you get is what they news is spoon feeding you with zero exposure to the day to day lives of real, on the ground, americans and their problems and the reasons they voted the way they did. 60+ million votes cast on each side, and you and several others want to pigeon hole everyone into what YOU believe, and what YOU think instead of thinking about the reasoning why other people voted the way they did. Its not about YOU, UK, Brexit, or any of that. 

 

2) Your last statement is entirely your biased opinion based on the fact that you honestly believe that the only sole motivation for any politician is to legislate for personal gain. This may be true in places like Thailand for example, but this is certainly NOT the accepted mindset to anyone other than conspiracy theorists. 

 

18 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

In both cases it boiled down to normal Democrat voters voting for Trump (standing as a Republican).  Any idea why?

 

But you're probably sticking to 'the line' that they were all racists and weren't voting for someone/ANYONE that would throw out the current elite and start a shakedown of all political parties caring about nothing other than their own financial interests.

 

What are you even talking about here? You don't have a clue nor any moral high road to assume why I do what I do or why I voted the way I did. I don't even know what you are talking about with "The Line" & "Racists"

[ClutchClark]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't get it. It's not about overturning the result. It's about pushing back  against the trumpist false narrative that they have a mandate. That remains relevant whether you like it or not. Obviously not but that's your problem. 

 

You are saying you are going to disrupt society where republicans and working class Left ( who have accepted their loss) just wish to get on with their daily lives. 

 

Be very careful with your rhetoric and don't make the mistake of thinking your toy light sabres are real. If you attempt to spread fear amongst any law abiding citizen you are going to be quickly woken up to reality. 

 

The physical assaults which the rioters have made against fellow Americans simply because they wore a Trump hat or t-shirt are illegal. This fantasy you have of resistance fighters is going to land you in an institution--either the floor a jail cell or a hospital. 

 

You lost. Stop your tantrum and get over it.

 

 

[Rob13]

24 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

Nothing about the Obama Administration helped to turn this trend around. 

 

 

 

And you're gonna find that nothing trump's admin will either. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Rob13 said:

 

 

And you're gonna find that nothing trump's admin will either. 

I can't come to any other conclusion by your statement than you want Trump to fail, you want America to fail, you want people to be worse off and crime to increase.

He won, he will be president, no amount of complaining will change that.

Americans can either work together to succeed, or they can have a repeat of the past 8 years where more division occurred and America did not succeed in becoming more prosperous. OTY.

[Strange]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't get it. It's not about overturning the result. It's about pushing back  against the trumpist false narrative that they have a mandate. That remains relevant whether you like it or not. Obviously not but that's your problem. 

 

I know you have me on ignore, so maybe another resistance fighter can chime in, but are you saying that trump supporters should fear the resistance? 

 

Can anyone chime in here? 

[Rob13]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

He won, he will be president,

 

Thanks, i was wondering.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Rob13 said:

 

Thanks, i was wondering.

Seems that some on TVF think that he can be stopped before being sworn in. I just want them to remember who did, in fact, win.

If Trump succeeds, I hope to be able to remind them in 4 years of all that they said now.

 

I hope Trump has asked to go on every tv show where the fronts people were so certain about Trump losing that they laughed riotously whenever it was suggested he would win. He who wins laughs loudest and all that.

Any bets on Van Jones being a popular tv guest any more?

[Rob13]

He'll win the electoral vote no problem. His biggest problem now is resolving all the conflicts of interst his businesses are causing.That and the image he's creating by dragging his daughter around to meet with heads of state. 

[ClutchClark]

12 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

I know you have me on ignore, so maybe another resistance fighter can chime in, but are you saying that trump supporters should fear the resistance? 

 

Can anyone chime in here? 

 

Strange,

 

Everything I have read is that is that this group has a mission to spread fear and disrupt normal society. They have used words like "force" and the very title of this thread is a "threat". 

 

They are tslking about some "resistance" effort. At no time have they called it a peaceful resistance and nothing in the physical attacks I have seen on YouTube videos shows a condemnation agsinst those members of their anti-Trump resistance  who are resorting to violence. 

 

Their gatherings have resulted in destruction of property and broken several laws already.

 

Their goal is to disrupt civil society by fear and intimidation. 

 

It is obvious that they have a disconnect from reality with these irrational thoughts. 

 

I don't know what communities these angry groups shouting threats of "fear us" expect to disrupt but they are setting themselves up for a bad ending. America is not a lawless society. I just hope these sore losers are going to be content typing away angrily on their keyboards because if a group of these resistance fighters with black face coverings causes fear of life or personal safety to Americans simply going about ther lawful daily routine it has all the makings for a bad end.

 

So the more rational amongst this group better get a reality check soon and start calming this situation down. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

He'll win the electoral vote no problem. His biggest problem now is resolving all the conflicts of interst his businesses are causing.That and the image he's creating by dragging his daughter around to meet with heads of state. 

dragging his daughter around to meet with heads of state. 

Far as I know she a charming, intelligent person and he relies on her advice. I'm sure all leaders have many advisors with them when they meet other leaders.

Kennedy relied on his brother Robert.

Methinks you make much ado about nothing.

 

Agree about the business interests. If he doesn't solve that he will be haunted and ultimately destroyed by the same accusations he used against Clinton. I hope he can do so for the benefit of all.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Strange,

 

Everything I have read is that is that this group has a mission to spread fear and disrupt normal society. They have used words like "force" and the very title of this thread is a "threat". 

 

They are tslking about some "resistance" effort. At no time have they called it a peaceful resistance and nothing in the physical attacks I have seen on YouTube videos shows a condemnation agsinst those members of their anti-Trump resistance  who are resorting to violence. 

 

Their gatherings have resulted in destruction of property and broken several laws already.

 

Their goal is to disrupt civil society by fear and intimidation. 

 

It is obvious that they have a disconnect from reality with these irrational thoughts. 

 

I don't know what communities these angry groups shouting threats of "fear us" expect to disrupt but they are setting themselves up for a bad ending. America is not a lawless society. I just hope these sore losers are going to be content typing away angrily on their keyboards because if a group of these resistance fighters with black face coverings causes fear of life or personal safety to Americans simply going about ther lawful daily routine it has all the makings for a bad end.

 

So the more rational amongst this group better get a reality check soon and start calming this situation down. 

 

 

I think the FBI has already infiltrated that group and is preparing to make arrests if necessary.

It's the groups that don't come out in the open that Trump has to fear. No doubt in my mind that a certain billionaire and his cabal are planning to disrupt Trump's presidency in any way they can.

Expect a propaganda campaign like none before as the anti Trump media get all the funds they need to distort everything Trump does and says. Expect a campaign to impeach him out of the gate, and if that doesn't work a campaign to spoil everything.

Edited November 23, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[ClutchClark]

My advice to all members of the Resistance:

 

Save your role playing for the safety of your bedrooms.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

My advice to all members of the Resistance:

 

Save your role playing for the safety of your bedrooms.

 

 

Don't you mean the safety of their mother's basements? Wasn't that where Hillary said they live?

Edited November 23, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

dragging his daughter around to meet with heads of state. 

Far as I know she a charming, intelligent person and he relies on her advice. I'm sure all leaders have many advisors with them when they meet other leaders.

Kennedy relied on his brother Robert.

Methinks you make much ado about nothing.

 

Agree about the business interests. If he doesn't solve that he will be haunted and ultimately destroyed by the same accusations he used against Clinton. I hope he can do so for the benefit of all.

 

The rabid left will look for ANYTHING to criticize.   It will be what Trump has for breakfast next.

 

Give it a break guys.....you lost, Trump won.  End of story.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

The rabid left will look for ANYTHING to criticize.   It will be what Trump has for breakfast next.

 

Give it a break guys.....you lost, Trump won.  End of story.

They'll never give up. They are a victim of their own rhetoric- you know, the stuff about her being all good and him being all bad. They are like greyhounds pursuing a stuffed rabbit around a track. They probably know they'll never catch it, but they just can't stop chasing it. 

[Morch]

12 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I don't think the so called alt-right nativist crowd helped the Reps win the election, but I do think the alt-left (if you will) identity politics crowd lost the Dems the election. Not that anyone's got anything against the members of that group, but because they consider themselves distinct from the greater "melting pot" that is America. Democrats never understood this as their leadership was only cynically parsing up the electorate to get a majority but they were undermining the fabric of society as they did so. Some Dems understand this.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

 

I think both articles linked do a fair job of touching on some of the issues leading and related to the election results. My doubts are more to do with the ability of the Democratic Party to actually address these in constructive manner. So far, it seems that the post-elections reactions still follow the same trends detailed in these two articles. May be fair enough to say that these are initial reactions, and that a more meaningful drive to tackle underlying issues will emerge over the time. One hurdle, IMO, is that the current reactions and modes of engagement seem to make many even more entrenched in their narrative. 

 

Another thing related (I think more so in the second article linked) is viewing support for Trump (or from another POV, withdrawal of support from the Dems) as a push-back against Dem/Liberal wins on the social agenda. This strikes me as a good observation, and as something not alien to US (or Western) politics. Perhaps Dems should take heart from such this, as a form of mid-long term hope.

[rice555]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think the FBI has already infiltrated that group and is preparing to make arrests if necessary.

It's the groups that don't come out in the open that Trump has to fear. No doubt in my mind that a certain billionaire and his cabal are planning to disrupt Trump's presidency in any way they can.

Expect a propaganda campaign like none before as the anti Trump media get all the funds they need to distort everything Trump does and says. Expect a campaign to impeach him out of the gate, and if that doesn't work a campaign to spoil everything.

Are you talking about the guy that put most of the money for Prop 64 in CA

and other states Med/Rec laws? And was some of the money behind the looser candidate for prez?

rice555

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, rice555 said:

Are you talking about the guy that put most of the money for Prop 64 in CA

and other states Med/Rec laws? And was some of the money behind the looser candidate for prez?

rice555

I can't say because he might have me hunted down and killed.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Some early leaders in the LONG and difficult anti-trump resistance ahead:

 

The Resistance Fighters Who Will Stand Up to the Deplorables

In the wake of Donald Trump's election as president — something we can still hardly believe — we've been encouraged by the progressive voices rising against Trump and his agenda.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/11/22/resistance-fighters-who-will-stand-deplorables

 

This list (discounting the tone it's presented with, which is part of the issue), is comprised of mainly of two segments.

 

The first being names associated with left leaning journalists and media persons - which while good at articulating and highlighting all that is wrong about Trump's, do not actually lead in any meaningful sense. At the same time, their message seems to resonate mostly with the those already firmly opposed to Trump. Useful, perhaps, to bolster morale and a sense of righteousness, but at the same time offering an all encompassing sneering rejectionist attitude which, IMO, is counter-productive. While these may effect public views, they do not directly apply with regard to changing party politics and focus.

 

The other main group is comprised of well established political figures (Sanders, Schumer, Warren) -  and while all rehearse some of the "resistance" talk, they also convey realism, by making their rejection of Trump conditional. Not sure how that goes down (or will go down) with the those actively protesting or even with the majority of Dem voters. How much influence will they have over the expected forming (or rather, reforming) of new political strategies is an open question. On a side note, interesting Keith Ellison is not mentioned in the link.

 

On the whole, it sounds like a list which supports a somewhat more radical agenda compared to (I dunno if that's quite the correct way to put it) mainstream Dems. While that might reflect the views of those more vocal on the anti-Trump "movement", I remain skeptical as to their wider public appeal, even among those not supportive of Trump.

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I agree.

Early days.

It's a BUBBLE list. 

I don't have the answers of how to defeat trumpism that's quick and easy.

trump's the one that promises quick and easy (BIG LIES of course).