Trump: US to quit TPP trade deal on first day in office

[pookiki]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't pretend to know much about the details of any trade deals. Obviously, nations want to get best deal they can get. However on the globalization vs. anti-globalization thing, ironically, I'm more of a traditional republican. Very much pro FREE trade. Protectionism is a band aid, it always backfires. We're already in a globalized world, like it or not, better to accept the reality and compete within that reality. I know Hillary Clinton said she was also against TPP, but not many people believed her, including me. 

 

It is possible that trumpian economic policies might temporarily create some kind of BUBBLE positive reaction in the U.S. economy. I don't consider that a good long term solution. 

The question that must be answered is: 'Who reaps the benefits of 'free trade'? Jobs are moved from one country to another -- usually to countries that have the lowest labor costs. While employment may expand in the countries to which the jobs are moved, that is usually the result of expanding markets that would have occurred without the move.  In reality, 'free trade' allows for the greater concentration of wealth and income inequality.  It would be very hard to argue that the jobs in the garment industry in Bangladesh, Burma, Vietnam, or Cambodia are paying sufficient wages to allow people to claw their way out of poverty. The same applies to factory workers at Foxconn who toil for long hours under very onerous conditions to make i-phones or for the workers in auto plants in India. Unless and until there is a global labor pact that treats workers as more than expendable commodities, free trade will only exacerbate poverty and further concentrate wealth in the hands of a very few people.

[NumbNut]

Very good page on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission) that does a good broad brush explanantion of what the TPP is and isn't.

 

Recommended reading

 

Trans Pacific Partnership FAQ

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

You forgot to mention something about the Europeans signing the TPP.

 

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) or Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) is a trade agreement among twelve of the Pacific Rim countries—notably not including China.  The TPP began as an expansion of the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement (TPSEP or P4) signed by Brunei, Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore in 2005. Beginning in 2008, additional countries joined the discussion for a broader agreement: Australia, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, United States, and Vietnam, bringing the total number of countries participating in the negotiations to twelve."

Source: Wikipedia

 

Which of those  nations do you believe to be a member of the EU? Or even located in Europe?

 

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

No I didnt. Officials of the EU would have signed it and they would have come from some of the 28 countries who make up the EU.

 

Try reading this link. It is quite informative.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe

 

Sad to see that my comment went right over your head.

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

"The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) or Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA) is a trade agreement among twelve of the Pacific Rim countries—notably not including China.  The TPP began as an expansion of the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement (TPSEP or P4) signed by Brunei, Chile, New Zealand, and Singapore in 2005. Beginning in 2008, additional countries joined the discussion for a broader agreement: Australia, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, United States, and Vietnam, bringing the total number of countries participating in the negotiations to twelve."

Source: Wikipedia

 

Which of those  nations do you believe to be a member of the EU? Or even located in Europe?

 

 

None of course, hence my mentioning of Europe as a country that signed on after somebody else made a reference to Europe in this thread.

[smotherb]

6 hours ago, Mosha said:

Not if you're already at the bottom, and globalisation has seen your job shipped to low cost countries.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk
 

If your skills can be duplicated by someone who will do it for less; what is your complaint? You need to learn a better skills that fewer people can do.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I don't pretend to know much about the details of any trade deals.

TPP went beyond just trade.

"It also would have set up open internet and copyright protections across the 12 nations, benefitting the entertainment industry and undercutting online piracy in China. The deal also included provisions against wildlife trafficking and child labor, holding countries such as Vietnam and Malaysia to higher standards."

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/12/tpp-trade-deal-congress-obama

[Mosha]

If your skills can be duplicated by someone who will do it for less; what is your complaint? You need to learn a better skills that fewer people can do.

All designed to keep the working class down, while the neo global capitalists left and right, sell jobs to the lowest bidder, to keep the already too rich happy.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

None of course, hence my mentioning of Europe as a country that signed on after somebody else made a reference to Europe in this thread.

 

Yes, I see, apologies. You were wondering why the Brussels boys might be upset.

 

Hopefully he meant that if the TPP is scrapped then the TTIP ain't likely.

 

[pookiki]

5 minutes ago, smotherb said:

If your skills can be duplicated by someone who will do it for less; what is your complaint? You need to learn a better skills that fewer people can do.

In this day and age, skills can be duplicated by something - the increase use of robotics is a prime example.  Clean-up on aisle six skills?

[smotherb]

3 minutes ago, Mosha said:

All designed to keep the working class down, while the neo global capitalists left and right, sell jobs to the lowest bidder, to keep the already too rich happy.

Sent from my SMART_4G_Speedy_5inch using Tapatalk
 

No, it's common sense. If you can only do what others can do for less; why would anyone hire you?

[smotherb]

2 minutes ago, pookiki said:

In this day and age, skills can be duplicated by something - the increase use of robotics is a prime example.  Clean-up on aisle six skills?

There are not too many robotic engineers, scientists, managers, teachers, doctors, lawyers or even Indian chiefs. All have skills which the average working stiff cannot handle. Spending your day tightening a nut and oiling a spring will no longer provide a decent living and why should it?

[pookiki]

4 minutes ago, smotherb said:

No, it's common sense. If you can only do what others can do for less; why would anyone hire you?

The problem is that someone doing it for less includes slave and bonded labor as well as exploitation of migrant workers. Insufficient protection for the rights or working people.

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

    REAL CASE TO DEAL WITH CHINA ( not part of the TPP)

 

Chinese company selling luxury 'Trump Toilets' is ready to fight Donald for his name   : "We registered our company in 2002 and obtained approval from the trademark office in Beijing," Zhong Jiye, the CEO of Shenzhen Trump Industrial Company Limited, told NBC News. "If Mr. Trump thinks our trademark violates his rights and interests, he can use legal methods because our company observes China's laws." Zhong's company specializes in making high-tech toilet seats that can cost as much as $880. Apparently, they make them quite well and have captured 85% of the Chinese market share. The company claims that over one billion people use its products every year.

 

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/11/17/trump_toilets.php

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/trump-toilet-name-entirely-coincidental-chinese-firm-says-n684686

 

 

Trump toilets cooool!! Yea sure Donald fight a trademark office in Beijing. Looooser. Now have a hissy fit and tell the Chinese to pee up a rope on trade. This also is a Trump trademark. 

[elgordo38]

Yes dear media people its my way or the highway take your pick. Quit peeing on my parade.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/uselection/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it/ar-AAkBfSR?li=AAggNb9

[simple1]

20 minutes ago, pookiki said:

The problem is that someone doing it for less includes slave and bonded labor as well as exploitation of migrant workers. Insufficient protection for the rights or working people.

 

Your concerns for worker safeguards are laudable and is one of the issues TPP is seeking to address. I'm unaware of any current policies the future Trump Administration will implement to address your concerns. At this point in time there is little with transnational trade agreements that directly address worker rights in some of the signatory counties. However, if enacted and the spirit of the TPP is actually enforced (TPP does talk to enforcement actions) across the trade partners it's a great step forward.

 

 

TPP has the strongest protections for workers of any trade agreement in history, requiring all TPP Parties to adopt and maintain in their laws and practices the fundamental labor rights as recognized by the International Labor Organization (ILO), including freedom of association and the right to collective bargaining; elimination of forced labor; abolition of child labor; and the elimination of employment discrimination.

 

 

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Chapter-Summary-Labour-1.pdf

Edited November 22, 2016 by simple1

[JHolmesJr]

20 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Yes dear media people its my way or the highway take your pick. Quit peeing on my parade.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/uselection/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it/ar-AAkBfSR?li=AAggNb9

 

They need to be widdled on from a great height. 

[pookiki]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Your concerns for worker safeguards are laudable and is one of the issues TPP is seeking to address. I'm unaware of any current policies the future Trump Administration will implement to address your concerns. At this point in time there is little with transnational trade agreements that directly address worker rights in some of the signatory counties. However, if enacted and the spirit of the TPP is actually enforced (TPP does talk to enforcement actions) across the trade partners it's a great step forward.

 

 

TPP has the strongest protections for workers of any trade agreement in history, requiring all TPP Parties to adopt and maintain in their laws and practices the fundamental labor rights as recognized by the International Labor Organization (ILO), including freedom of association and the right to collective bargaining; elimination of forced labor; abolition of child labor; and the elimination of employment discrimination.

 

 

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/TPP-Chapter-Summary-Labour-1.pdf

NAFTA and other 'free' trade agreements contained similar provisions and proved to be unenforceable. I'm sorry but all of this is window dressing. It would have never happened.  Many countries violate ILO conventions to which they are signatory. Nothing happens. Child labor is another glaring example.

[elgordo38]

3 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

They need to be widdled on from a great height. 

Peeing on them does not bother me in fact it excites me. I am just afraid they will be starring in "The Walking Dead" or "Z Nation" As news is a bread and butter issue for them the Donald might explain to them which side of the bread their butter is on. 

[Silurian]

2 hours ago, Opl said:

Chinese company selling luxury 'Trump Toilets' is ready to fight Donald for his name

 

How about a compromise with the old Donald? Agree to put his face on the bottom of the bowl and give him a percentage of the profits. Watch sales double! Heck, I might even buy one if I can defecate on a picture of Donald's face. Since his mouth spews so much crap, it would be appropriate for it to swallow some back.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Silurian

[dunroaming]

7 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Anything that upsets the nobs in Brussels is good news afaic. 

 

I do think you need to get on the right page.  TPP has nothing to do with the EU or Europe.  However it could be argued that the TPP not happening could strengthen the EU.  I don't buy that argument but some are making it.

[simple1]

3 minutes ago, pookiki said:

NAFTA and other 'free' trade agreements contained similar provisions and proved to be unenforceable. I'm sorry but all of this is window dressing. It would have never happened.  Many countries violate ILO conventions to which they are signatory. Nothing happens. Child labor is another glaring example.

 

Although it may take many years the laws underpinning TPP are a step in the right direction. Just because there are hindrances no point in 'giving up' e.g. international pressure outcomes, with albeit slow progress, in places such as India and Thailand.

[Andaman Al]

37 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Yes dear media people its my way or the highway take your pick. Quit peeing on my parade.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/uselection/trump-summons-tv-figures-for-private-meeting-and-lets-them-have-it/ar-AAkBfSR?li=AAggNb9

 

Clearly he is a Facist, there are no doubts about it.

[Andaman Al]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Although it may take many years the laws underpinning TPP are a step in the right direction. Just because there are hindrances no point in 'giving up' 

One could say exactly the same thing about Obamacare, but hey delete and repeal it all Mr Trump, as you promised to do in the first hour in office.

[elgordo38]

Just now, Andaman Al said:

 

Clearly he is a Facist, there are no doubts about it.

 

Just now, Andaman Al said:

 

Clearly he is a Facist, there are no doubts about it.

Sadly I think your right and it will only become more self evident as time goes on. I feel sorry for all those rust belt voters that put him over the top in the election. He will even snafu the $15 an hour increase forget about bringing back good paying jobs. These media people had to sign a pledge to keep their mouth shut on what was discussed. Secret government returns with a fury of a person scorned and who has a hit list. 

[dunroaming]

Whatever we all think in January Trump will start his plan to make America great again.  From then we will all be spectators watching either  a great triumph or a great disaster.  It is very strange world we are in now.

[pookiki]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Although it may take many years the laws underpinning TPP are a step in the right direction. Just because there are hindrances no point in 'giving up' e.g. international pressure outcomes, with albeit slow progress, in places such as India and Thailand.

Did you know that the US has refused to sign some of the 'core' ILO conventions?  For example, the convention on 'freedom of association' or the the use of forced labor?

 

http://www.ilo.org/dyn/normlex/en/f?p=NORMLEXPUB:11210:0::NO::P11210_COUNTRY_ID:102871 

 

Where is the 'principle' underlying such agreements?  It's a farce.  In the US, it is cheaper for companies to violate labor laws than to comply with them. Sadly, capitalism has no ethics or respect for basic human rights. 

[elgordo38]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

One could say exactly the same thing about Obamacare, but hey delete and repeal it all Mr Trump, as you promised to do in the first hour in office.

Well if Trump cancels the US TPP participation it will end up looking like picture in TV some months back of a tree growing in the middle of a highway. He wants to eliminate Fed service jobs and pension cut backs along with their wages and thus create another whole level of bureaucracy to police it. These jobs may be a bit top heavy but they add much to the consumer numbers because of the wage scale. Cut backs here will mean cut backs in consumer spending yes Donald a loose loose situation. 

[elgordo38]

9 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

This guy is gonna have a very busy first day. So many other things to do in the first hour and the first day. If he gets all he promised to do done in the first day I will even wave Trump placards myself.

I hope he has no new golf club openings on the same day. Could be guilty of a conflict of interest. 

[elgordo38]

Not to worry the first day is still 2 months off. He could do the old Trump twister a U turn with a spin and change his mind. Anyone know does he have an astrologist? I believe Reagan had one or was that Nancy? Will Melania be another Nancy Reagan now there is something to mull about. Great window dressing though to take the minds off of business when international big wigs arrive. They should put a waste basket in the oval office for them to leave their lustful thoughts behind.