Thailand's New 10-Year Visas Meet Mixed Reactions

[anotheruser]

Just now, Anthony5 said:

 

Not sure where you going with this but, an insurance that doesn't cover you in Thailand will also not pay for an emergency evacuation, and what are you with an emergency evacuation if you will be DOA anyway.

 

The subject we are discussing in this post is people who refuse to take health insurance that covers them in Thailand, because they think they can get back to their home country where they are covered at any time.

 

Sure thought of that after I wrote the post. So they should require an additional insurance policy that does cover this. :) 

[Anthony5]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

 

Stabilize and evacuate.  Not just evacuate.  $10K should more than cover that to anywhere, considering the insurance company will have a package-deal with the airlines, and the medical here is a fraction of the costs of anywhere in the West.  

Which insurance company you're talking about? I hope it isn't the one that doesn't cover you in Thailand.

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

 

Remember, these are the same people that gave a programmer full access to their Immigration database, sensitive parts of which ended up plastered on the internet when some smart bunnies figured out the programmers password was "123456".

 

It really shouldn't be hard at all though. I shake my head when I do a 90 day report (which used to require various proofs of address each time) and, despite that desk having my full details, if I want a Residency Certificate, from a desk 4 meters away, I have to bring in photocopies of my passport and visa pages, and photocopies of "proof of address" again ! It's like each desk is a stand-alone system and none of them are tied into anyone else, which is pretty strange.

Every Immigration office should be connected to a master, National database. If I move to Nakhon Nowhere and report into the local Immigration office, they should be able to scan my passport (or departure card bar code) and presto ! All my details should be on the screen ready for editing or updating or document printing in a flash. If I sit down at the 90 Day desk and the IO updates my address details, when I pop over to another desk to get a new Residency Certificate I shouldn't have to reconfirm all those same details again.

 

If you are on a yearly visa, issue a Non-Immigrant ID card. The details are already in the computer, all that is required is to add a digital photo and then print it out on the card printer (took the driver's license place like 20 seconds to take my photo digitally and then print my new license). 

RFID chip in the card with name and address details encoded. Once a year (or if you change address) stop in at Immigration, run your card through a scanner (so they know you are still in the country and still alive) and bingo ! Good for another year ! (Well, got to renew the extension of stay as well. Maybe.) Allow long-stay foreigners to use that card as ID instead of their passport (for day-to-day matters). 

 

The technology is pretty much already in place. Sheesh, we were printing ID cards (no RFID chips) with security features (holograms and watermarked laminating film) in Kandahar a decade ago.  All that is really needed is a software update and the card printers.

 

This would make life a lot easier for the Immigration Officers everywhere as well as for the long-stay expats. More effective and more efficient equals fewer headaches, shorter queues, better management. 

 

With the US having a 600 billion dollar (USD)  budget, the military in Kandahar could have printed their own currency.

 

thailand can't even hold an election

[Balance]

I always wondered where expats think the money will come from if they have a real medical problem.  It is true that a high percentage of people over 50 have pre-existing conditions that mostly preclude them from getting health insurance in Thailand, from Thai or foreign companies.  That means that they have to come out of pocket.  

 

Example:  A couple of years ago I became quite symptomatic for atrial fibrillation and needed a 4 vein ablation.  I had health insurance with AIA that only covered up to about 150,000 Baht per hospitalization.  It was next to impossible to find out with any accuracy what this procedure would cost in Thailand, but I knew that it would exceed 2M Baht, which I did not have.  I did have U.S. Medicare and so I went back and had the procedure done in Los Angeles.  The total billed to Medicare was just at $100,000 for a five-hour procedure and an overnight stay in the CICU. Even if you halve that amount, it would have cost 2.5M Baht in Thailand at a hospital that had had physicians certified to perform the procedure.My total inclusive cost for the procedure was less than $1,000.

 

My experience also made it clear that unless expats have 3 to 5M Baht that can be set aside to self-insure, you have to accept the risk that you could find yourself in trouble.  For this and other reasons, my wife and I decided to move back to the U.S.

[Anthony5]

36 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I hate to be the bringer of bad news but 100,000 baht per month is a long way from rich. Thats $36,000 US a year or twice the very low minimum wage there.

 

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

In the US for somebody who has worked for 40 years no it is less than average.

 

So you claim that any American that has worked for 40 years has a pension of about $3000 a month after taxes and the minimum wage in the US is $1500 a month.

 

You're talking about the US and not Lala land, right?

[JackThompson]

Just now, Anthony5 said:

Which insurance company you're talking about? I hope it isn't the one that doesn't cover you in Thailand.

 

Actually, my insurance covers me anywhere on Earth *except* the USA, where I am from.  Insurance and health-costs in the USA are a sick joke - one of the many reasons I don't live there.  The famous case of the $12 Asprin tablet at the hospital (yes, one tablet), comes to mind.

 

The minimum required policy for any foreigner entering Thailand should cover "stabilize and evacuate" to the expat's home country at a minimum.  If they have something that will cover the costs here, they could use that, and get treated here.  The issue is preventing a sick / injured foreigner from costing the Thais money - which is fair enough. 

[Anthony5]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

7 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

Which insurance company you're talking about? I hope it isn't the one that doesn't cover you in Thailand.

 

Actually, my insurance covers me anywhere on Earth *except* the USA, where I am from.  Insurance and health-costs in the USA are a sick joke - one of the many reasons I don't live there.  The famous case of the $12 Asprin tablet at the hospital (yes, one tablet), comes to mind.

 

 

But there we go, we are discussing people who's insurance DOESN"T cover them in Thailand, and refuse to take out one that does so.

[farcanell]

17 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Serious accident,stroke, heart attack,or burst intestine,like a mate just had, and you and your mate will not be getting on that plane.4 or maybe 5 years away and no Medicare either.Some of you blokes haven't thought through this at all.If it is not serious why bother going back at all.

 

Because my plan was always to go back.... the system sucked enough out of me in tax, at a high earning rate.... so bugger them, they can pay it back.

 

there is also repatriation, that can be looked at.... it's not all  bad

 

and becoming a resident again, is very simple... check the government website, they have a "test" outlining requirements.... I can become a resident again as soon as I fill in a tax form (because I just did one months work in Australia... ssshh)

 

my partner never declared herself as a non resident either, so that's covered

 

yes.... I have thought it through.... all I have to do is time my return to fulfill the stated requirements.

 

but each to his own... no need to get excited, because I just ducked outside and checked... the sky is not falling on our heads, at least, not tonight

[Grubster]

If this is indeed a multiple entry visa and you used to buy the multi entry every year then there is 39,000 baht savings right there. Add the 1900 baht per year extension  19,000 baht = 58,000 baht - 10,000 for this visa and you have 48,000 baht to help pay for insurance. I like it, I like it real good. Easier, better and smarter.  I do hope they don't force it on those who cannot afford it though.

[Goethe]

33 minutes ago, rexall said:

And that reduces or prevents terrorism how exactly?

 

You can be traced. The determined terrorist can probably never be stopped, but many terrorist plots have been nipped in the bud (in various countries). Given the  number of nationalities that live in Thailand, a cautious government will take steps to locate all foreigners. Resenting the reporting requirement is arrogant.

[farcanell]

29 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

As long as you are willing to bet your life that will continue to be the case you are good. 

 

Covered... it's not a bet... hospitals are legally required to treat you.... they cannot turn you away in oz... you just have to get there.

 

long term stuff is different... waiting lists kick in then... but that's not betting your life

 

besides, the gamble is backed by a 1/4 mill in the bank.

 

?

[JackThompson]

3 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

But there we go, we are discussing people who's insurance DOESN"T cover them in Thailand, and refuse to take out one that does so.

 

Which is the reason for my 2nd paragraph - an insurance product limited to "stabilize and ship" is needed - especially for the older folks that cannot afford insurance here.  The govt could even sell it to those who don't have their own.  I knew a Euro who had a policy like this while they were visiting the USA - to get them to a "civilized" country for care.

 

It needs to handle the costs of the 1:10,000 case where the patient "cannot be moved" for an extended time, offset by the other 9,999 who cost very little.  An actuarial could come up with the premiums - shouldn't be the crazy rates others have quoted to get only this reduced-coverage package - even for those in their 80s.

[anotheruser]

Just now, farcanell said:

 

Covered... it's not a bet... hospitals are legally required to treat you.... they cannot turn you away in oz... you just have to get there.

 

long term stuff is different... waiting lists kick in then... but that's not betting your life

 

besides, the gamble is backed by a 1/4 mill in the bank.

 

?

 

Okay so what is the meaning of losing health coverage of you stay out of Oz more than 183 days then? Honest question I really don't know. It seems if they have to treat you then the rule is basically meaningless?

[Kerryd]

How many stories have we seen about foreigners ending up in a hospital and then finding out that their insurance (from home) doesn't cover them ? Many people assume they are covered but never actually check ! I always assumed that I was covered by the military, even when on holiday. Found out (through the news, not the military) that if I got hurt on the way home from work, I wasn't covered because I'd be considered "off duty" (but if I got hurt on the way into work I would be covered as I would be considered as "reporting for duty"). Needless to say, I was not covered while on holidays either !!

 

I also found out that my Provincial (Canadian) medical insurance only covered me while I was in the province !! Most people assume they are covered even if they travel from one end of the country to the other. Wrong ! I knew that years ago when they told me I had to pay the next year's premium's up front, even though I was travelling to Afghanistan to work and they had told me they wouldn't cover me if I got hurt ! But they still wanted their money any ways ! They even sent me a reminder (in Afghanistan) 3 months later to remind me that I owed them a year's worth of premiums, plus interest for not having paid on time, for insurance that they wouldn't cover me for any ways !!!!

 

When a Canadian was injured in Phuket some time ago (moto accident of course), he apparently thought he was covered by his Canadian (provincial) healthcare only to find out they wouldn't pay a penny. I checked it out at the time and they state that even if you leave the province for a day, you aren't covered (unless you make alternative arrangements in advance). I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of Canadians have no clue about that.

 

I also recall from stories in the past that people from the UK aren't covered by the NHS until they've been back in the "motherland" for 3 months or something like that. Other people assume that because they bought "travel insurance" when they flew over (on an old Ford Tri-motor, seated just behind some American with a leather jacket and a whip) that it is still valid even though it's been decades since they cashed in their return ticket and started living off of som tam and lao khao. Meh - who bothers reading the fine print on anything these days ? Probably fewer than did back in the day when bars in Nepal were owned by hot, hard-drinking white women.

 

These days, when I open my wallet the first thing you see is my medical insurance card, right next to the card for my lawyer. Between the 2 of them I hope that if something ever does happen to me, I'll wake up in a private room at the Bangkok-Pattaya hospital with a gaggle of cute student nurses trying to check my "pulse" !

 

 

 

[Grubster]

12 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

 

So you claim that any American that has worked for 40 years has a pension of about $3000 a month after taxes and the minimum wage in the US is $1500 a month.

 

You're talking about the US and not Lala land, right?

No I am saying that of those who worked 40 years that more than 50% are making $3,000 per month or more, making $3,000 less than average for that group.  And yes I believe the average minimum wage in the US is about $8.50 per hour [ not all states are the same]. $8.50 per hour x 2000 hours is $17,000. With no overtime.  I think it would be a hard life at $3,000 per month in the US. I have no idea how people survive on minimum wage. I think they must get some help and food stamps for sure.

[louse1953]

4 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

"Mmm not really" for who?

 

Yes this is all just a ploy to get a influx of foreign cash into Thai banks.

 

BUT, if I just tied up three mil in a condo that cash is "gone".

No way to come up with more.

Have to leave Thailand and rent the condo.

Condo sales and rental glut, real estate market drops and the 17 million baht I was going to spend in Thailand over the next twenty years goes to some lucky Cambodians.

 

We can poke holes in this stupid plan all day.

 

There will be no incoming and a multitude of outgoing 800k bahts.I know my bank manager will ask questions,maybe a heads up would be an idea,word may filter back to the "brains trust".No conversion of baht in Cambo and Siem Reap is just down the track from me.Live there and visit my former abode on 2 month tourist holidays.Stop in at Kap Choen on the way in and grab a free coffee.I will tell them i am not here for a 90 day report or a conversion to a 5 year,not even a re entry.I am here for free coffee while my gf reports that an alien is moving in for 2 months.This is also for free.Already speak a bit of Khymer so that is a bonus.Imagine me,with a business visa,i couldn't sell free beer down the pub.

[Timebandit]

Not one of us is getting out of this alive. Eat dessert first.

[Anthony5]

11 minutes ago, Grubster said:

No I am saying that of those who worked 40 years that more than 50% are making $3,000 per month or more, making $3,000 less than average for that group.  And yes I believe the average minimum wage in the US is about $8.50 per hour [ not all states are the same]. $8.50 per hour x 2000 hours is $17,000. With no overtime.  I think it would be a hard life at $3,000 per month in the US. I have no idea how people survive on minimum wage. I think they must get some help and food stamps for sure.

 

Are you talking rates BEFORE taxes? Because I can't believe that someone with $3000 in spending money would have a hard time, even in the US.

 

The money you are required to show as noted in the OP is definitely AFTER taxes.

 

Well look what I found here, which is something completely different from what you claim.

 

http://www.advisoryhq.com/articles/retirement-income/

Average Retirement Income

---

It’s worth starting out by taking a look at the average retirement income. In 2012, the average retirement income for Americans aged 65 and older was $31,742. In 2014, the average monthly retirement income from social security alone was $1,294 per month. That ends up being only $15,528 per year. The average social security income for couples where both members received benefits was $25,681.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Anthony5

[louse1953]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

I'm in the same boat as you...that is U.S. military Tricare for Life coverage at 75% reimbursement worldwide as a military retiree.  And this coverage has no "limit per year" for inpatient or outpatient coverage.  

 

What was not addressed about the medical coverage requirement was if "foreign medical coverage" will be accepted or they will only accept Thai medical insurance.   

You can bet it will be only Thai.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It might indeed be a replacement at least for the O-A part for those limited "rich list" nationals. 

 

Could be, but I'm guessing even the Thais don't intend to run two different visa systems based on country of origin, one for "rich" countries, and another for the poor country folks.

 

But, that doesn't mean they might not decide to tinker around with the current O-A visa and/or retirement extensions while they're in the Immigration/MFA visas neighborhood. Just gotta wait and see.

 

PS - The lack of official knowledge about this latest deal is perplexing

 

Quote

 

Permanent Secretary of the Interior Kritsada Boonrat said Thursday he had no idea when it would come into effect.
 

An official in the visa and travel division of the Foreign Affairs Ministry said she did not know anything either.

 

 

 

Perhaps that's par for the course.

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[farcanell]

1 minute ago, anotheruser said:

 

Okay so what is the meaning of losing health coverage of you stay out of Oz more than 183 days then? Honest question I really don't know. It seems if they have to treat you then the rule is basically meaningless?

 

Emergency treatment, for anyone, regardless of nationality, is a duty of care that the hospital has... hypocritical oath and all that.... elective treatment is different... and waiting lists will be required.

 

if you have a valid Medicare card, then you flash that, and you get outpatient services, or doctor surgery services.

 

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

( although social security is linked to immigration, and they will nail you if claiming social security benefits)

 

the 183 day rule is defunct... you have to pass a government test to be declared a non resident.... and it goes way beyond 183 days, in fact, I believe you have to be out of the country three years, to become a non resident, have demonstrable ties to the community you claim to live in ( eg... pattaya bridge club), a stable address etc etc

 

becoming a resident again is a much simpler thing, I just have to have an Australian address.... eg... my sisters ( yes... I'm over simplifying it, but not by much)

 

it is complicated, to be honest, but there are a lot of misconceptions, which is why reading some of the documents that the government provides, is worthwhile... and then you target loopholes, but maintain vigilant, as loopholes eventually close, which determines future actions

 

 

[anotheruser]

Just now, farcanell said:

 

Emergency treatment, for anyone, regardless of nationality, is a duty of care that the hospital has... hypocritical oath and all that.... elective treatment is different... and waiting lists will be required.

 

if you have a valid Medicare card, then you flash that, and you get outpatient services, or doctor surgery services.

 

this may well change, as the system becomes all knowing, but we are not there yet

( although social security is linked to immigration, and they will nail you if claiming social security benefits)

 

the 183 day rule is defunct... you have to pass a government test to be declared a non resident.... and it goes way beyond 183 days, in fact, I believe you have to be out of the country three years, to become a non resident, have demonstrable ties to the community you claim to live in ( eg... pattaya bridge club), a stable address etc etc

 

becoming a resident again is a much simpler thing, I just have to have an Australian address.... eg... my sisters ( yes... I'm over simplifying it, but not by much)

 

it is complicated, to be honest, but there are a lot of misconceptions, which is why reading some of the documents that the government provides, is worthwhile... and then you target loopholes, but maintain vigilant, as loopholes eventually close, which determines future actions

 

 

 

Yeah they will patch you up enough to save your life in the ER in America as well. After they get you breathing again they will let you die if you need major surgery or anything else.

[Pib]

4 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

You can bet it will be only Thai.

I wouldn't be prepared to bet.   I could also see the possibility of immigration accepting/requiring a letter from your home country embassy saying you meet the medical requirements.   Similar to how they accept a letter from your home country embassy that you meet the income requirements.  Or possibly something from your insurance company stating the annual coverage....like a policy sheet, etc. 

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I'm assuming you have kept your residency status, otherwise your up shit creek, i.e. 183 days out of the country and your a foreign resident with Medicare ceasing to be your mate, but like I said, you have probably kept your residency status, i.e. you spend less than 183 days out of Australia ?

You know that's not true,it was explained to you and me on another topic.

[Grubster]

6 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Are you talking rates BEFORE taxes? Because I can't believe that someone with $3000 in spending money would have a hard time, even in the US.

 

The money you are required to show as noted in the OP is definitely AFTER taxes.

I don't know but I would say that more than 50% of those working 40 years and get full SS their SS is about $2,000 a month and at least 50% of, Factory, construction, and civil pensions are over $2,000 per Mo. not to mention 401Ks, or IRAs they may have paid into.

[Anthony5]

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I don't know but I would say that more than 50% of those working 40 years and get full SS their SS is about $2,000 a month and at least 50% of, Factory, construction, and civil pensions are over $2,000 per Mo. not to mention 401Ks, or IRAs they may have paid into.

 

Well look what I found here, which is something completely different from what you claim.

 

http://www.advisoryhq.com/articles/retirement-income/

Average Retirement Income

---

It’s worth starting out by taking a look at the average retirement income. In 2012, the average retirement income for Americans aged 65 and older was $31,742. In 2014, the average monthly retirement income from social security alone was $1,294 per month. That ends up being only $15,528 per year. The average social security income for couples where both members received benefits was $25,681.

http://www.fool.com/retirement/general/2016/04/24/the-average-american-has-this-much-retirement-inco.aspx

According to 2012 AARP analysis of data from the Census Bureau, the average retirement income for Americans 65 and over was $31,742 -- 84% of those received Social Security, with 43.3 million of them getting an average retirement benefit of $1,298.98 a month. Social Security provides more than a third of income for many retirees, and retirees in the lowest income quintile count on Social Security for more than 80% of their income.   

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Anthony5

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, TechnikaIII said:

My best health insurance policy is the funds in the bank for a short-notice return to Australia, where my Medicare card takes care of hospital bills. And I keep an ambulance subscription up to date. 

What are you going to do if you are not allowed to fly?

[farcanell]

6 minutes ago, anotheruser said:

 

Yeah they will patch you up enough to save your life in the ER in America as well. After they get you breathing again they will let you die if you need major surgery or anything else.

 

Yer... I found that out the hard way that the US offer a different service, but that was also before Obamacare... I take it things haven't changed much.

[louse1953]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I'm in the same boat as you, but I have a pre-existing condition, i.e. a single stent in one of my artery's which was inserted after a clot was removed, that was 8 years ago, no issues and young and fit at 56 now, but no one will touch me with a pre-existing, they will however take 100,000 baht a year for health insurance, but I see no value in that, unless they are prepared to take on my pre-existing condition, suffice to say I know the game they are playing, i.e. once you hit a certain age, they drop you, so they can all go and get farked, as I am financial enough to cover my own health insurance, c..ts !

 But will 4MyEgo Insurance Company be acceptable at Immi?

[farcanell]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What are you going to do if you are not allowed to fly?

 

Boat?