Trump to nominate retired Gen. James Mattis to lead Pentagon

Xircal · December 3, 2016

14 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

What total BS. George Washington and a number of other presidents were former military officers, most recently - and famously - Eisenhower who was a careerist; did THAT compromise the idea of "civilian control over the armed forces"? Can't begin to count the number of former cabinet secretaries, members of the House & Senate, ambassadors, and other government executive service... It's a GOOD thing! The man knows the business, and Washington could use many more like him. Mattis is no longer active; he's retired. I.e., a civilian. This is one of the most ridiculous claims against the man I've heard (next to heartburn over the nom de guerre thing, which is beyond laughable).

I guess this is the depth and level of insight we can expect to be hounding Trump FNO. 'Good to know it's nothing to be taken seriously.

You quote a number former military men who later became president. That's fair enough, but that's not what this topic is about. It about the appointment of Defense Secretary i.e. the person tasked with overseeing control of the military. In that respect, Mattis's background is one of a former military officer rather that of a civilian.

But he may well prove to be the right man for the job if Trump continues to cosy up to Putin like he's been doing. I can't imagine Mattis being concilliatory towards the Kremlin somehow.

sgtsabai · December 3, 2016

Better take that apology back quite a few years to include the Regan cabal that started the decline of the US. The last Bush, Cheney/Bush et al war criminals set this all in motion and Obama went back on his word for everything in fact codifying what the right wing had started. You'll never get an apology from this left wing radical militant, unless it is something I personally got wrong. When the right wingers that thought the orange fascist was their saviour are sucking eggs, I'll be looking for an apology from them, won't happen, they won't ever realize what they have done to themselves and what was left of America.

hawker9000 · December 3, 2016

4 hours ago, DSJPC said:

u make a lotta sense!!!...but don't be holdin' ur breath on the apologies...these liberals never apologize for anything...they are soooooooooooooo <deleted>%$ing arrogant!!!

3 hours ago, sgtsabai said:

Better take that apology back quite a few years to include the Regan cabal that started the decline of the US. The last Bush, Cheney/Bush et al war criminals set this all in motion and Obama went back on his word for everything in fact codifying what the right wing had started. You'll never get an apology from this left wing radical militant, unless it is something I personally got wrong. When the right wingers that thought the orange fascist was their saviour are sucking eggs, I'll be looking for an apology from them, won't happen, they won't ever realize what they have done to themselves and what was left of America.

No apology by liberals needed or wanted or even relevant. All he has to do is sign the EO as soon as he takes office, preferably immediately before his Supreme Court Justice nomination, which he'll hopefully also have ready to go.

Oh, and the right wing didn't start anything - that idiot Jimmy Carter did (you know, the one-termer that Reagan - who the peanut-farmer characterized as a dangerous right-wing radical, a phrase we've been hearing from wingnuts about EVERY Republican candidate SINCE - defeated in a landslide?).

hawker9000 · December 3, 2016

9 hours ago, Xircal said:

You quote a number former military men who later became president. That's fair enough, but that's not what this topic is about. It about the appointment of Defense Secretary i.e. the person tasked with overseeing control of the military. In that respect, Mattis's background is one of a former military officer rather that of a civilian.

But he may well prove to be the right man for the job if Trump continues to cosy up to Putin like he's been doing. I can't imagine Mattis being concilliatory towards the Kremlin somehow.

LOL. Oh. OK. Right. So the Commander-in-Chief (of the Armed Forces of the United States) does not "control" the military, it's one his cabinet secretaries who does (who he appoints). And so if a former military officer - nominated in the first place in part because of his obvious expertise and knowledge - should happen to occupy the position of Secretary of Defense, the whole constitutional scheme of "civilian control of the military" is compromised and subverted. Sure. Gotcha'.

Some free advice: kudos for your ability to wiki up "civilian control of the military", but such obvious depth of understanding notwithstanding, keep the day job and leave political science to the grown-ups.

ffaarraanngg · December 3, 2016

On 02/12/2016 at 5:36 AM, DSJPC said:

Trump is doing all the right things!...I am extremely optimistic about America's future now!!!!!!!

IM not an American but i hope he puts an end to this neoliberalisms thats destroyed western society in the last 3/4 decades.

UNfortunately optimism in politicians and the vile parties that govern the west always leads to disappointment within several months.

Good thing is if Trump fails, at some point we really will get non establishment so called extremiststo govern (imho the establishment are extremists)

lannarebirth · December 3, 2016

1 hour ago, ffaarraanngg said:

IM not an American but i hope he puts an end to this neoliberalisms thats destroyed western society in the last 3/4 decades.

UNfortunately optimism in politicians and the vile parties that govern the west always leads to disappointment within several months.

Good thing is if Trump fails, at some point we really will get non establishment so called extremiststo govern (imho the establishment are extremists)

Well it is possible to fail while doing what is best for the country and its citizens. Few politicians are willing to risk it however. Hopefully Trump will usher in a series of failures who do the things no one wants to do but must be done. A failure that leads to a fairer tax code would be nice. Failure leading to health security for all Americans would be nice. A failure that leads to a retirement saving systems that doesn't cement the power of corporations over a co-opted people would be appreciated. We're going to need a series of failures to create a democracy of unity instead of the democracy of division that currently exists.

ffaarraanngg · December 3, 2016

17 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Well it is possible to fail while doing what is best for the country and its citizens. Few politicians are willing to risk it however. Hopefully Trump will usher in a series of failures who do the things no one wants to do but must be done. A failure that leads to a fairer tax code would be nice. Failure leading to health security for all Americans would be nice. A failure that leads to a retirement saving systems that doesn't cement the power of corporations over a co-opted people would be appreciated. We're going to need a series of failures to create a democracy of unity instead of the democracy of division that currently exists.

So long as he deals with the corrupt FED which is something he promised and and then the rest of the world major central banks gets their wings clipped he'll have done more good for the ordinary worker in his presidency than pretty much all Western leaders of the last 3 decades.

I've got faith in him to change the world for the better, but only time will tell ... if nothing else it was fantastic watching all the neolib journalists utterly distraught on the night of his victory, it was like a repeat of Brexit with BBC journalists looking suicidal that their failed project had finally come to an end. 2 more defeats for the neolibs in Austria and Italy this weekend and things will be looking up!

lannarebirth · December 3, 2016

1 minute ago, ffaarraanngg said:

So long as he deals with the corrupt FED which is something he promised and and then the rest of the world major central banks gets their wings clipped he'll have done more good for the ordinary worker in his presidency than pretty much all Western leaders of the last 3 decades.

I've got faith in him to change the world for the better, but only time will tell ... if nothing else it was fantastic watching all the neolib journalists utterly distraught on the night of his victory, it was like a repeat of Brexit with BBC journalists looking suicidal that their failed project had finally come to an end. 2 more defeats for the neolibs in Austria and Italy this weekend and things will be looking up!

I'm going to agree with you about the FED. They've been funneling money to banks, corporations and the very rich for more than 2 decades now. And of course all that wealth was stolen from middle class savers. These ultra elite organizations have no faith at all in the people to right the economy when it goes into recession so they keep forestalling it, leading to boom/bust cycles. I think they should be replaced with a computer program.

ffaarraanngg · December 3, 2016

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

I'm going to agree with you about the FED. They've been funneling money to banks, corporations and the very rich for more than 2 decades now. And of course all that wealth was stolen from middle class savers. These ultra elite organizations have no faith at all in the people to right the economy when it goes into recession so they keep forestalling it, leading to boom/bust cycles. I think they should be replaced with a computer program.

Problem is they don't allow busts anymore, recessions are a necessary part of the economic cycle but they print them away. We get boom, stagnate, quickly print money and more boom cycles.

To me its not that they don't have faith in workers, its a case that they are just blatantly stealing money from the working classes and no longer care to hide it.

lannarebirth · December 3, 2016

6 minutes ago, ffaarraanngg said:

Problem is they don't allow busts anymore, recessions are a necessary part of the economic cycle but they print them away. We get boom, stagnate, quickly print money and more boom cycles.

To me its not that they don't have faith in workers, its a case that they are just blatantly stealing money from the working classes and no longer care to hide it.

Speaking for myself, I always found that recessions brought opportunities. It seems they just want to channel those opportunities to a narrow few now. So much for America's economic mobility.

Johpa · December 4, 2016

CENTCOM does not dictate US foreign policy, but works within the limits set by it.

CENTCOM may not originate policy but it does originate military strategies and is a primary advisor relative to policy in the Middle East. It has played a central role in the failures in that region. It needs to be disbanded and then somehow reconstituted with new people who have no connection to the previous object failures of that command.

There is blame to go around, but we need generals who can stand their ground against the military-industrial complex, against the "shadow government" or "deep state" or whatever you want to call it. I want generals who can tell the neocons to f$!k off when they want to invade some country for no good reason, their careers be damned. The lives of their men and women in uniform should matter more. Mattis, and most of CENTCOM's former commanders are not such people.

And if you would like a more detailed criticism of CENTCOM's failure may I suggest Andrew Bacevich's recent book "America's War for the Greater Middle East".

Trump d'III

Xircal · December 4, 2016

15 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Some free advice: kudos for your ability to wiki up "civilian control of the military", but such obvious depth of understanding notwithstanding, keep the day job and leave political science to the grown-ups

Speak for yourself.

sgtsabai · December 4, 2016

Some how I don't think some of our right wing "friends" understand much about General Mattis. I don't really think they would like him much after a face to face. The soon to be fascist in chief may not like too much either after a short period of time. http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/in_2013_gen_james_mattis_compared_israeli_occupation_to_apartheid_20161203

Ulysses G. · December 4, 2016

Luckily, the General's personal opinions do not matter much. His job is to carry out President Trump's policies.

up-country_sinclair · December 4, 2016

3 hours ago, sgtsabai said:

Some how I don't think some of our right wing "friends" understand much about General Mattis. I don't really think they would like him much after a face to face. The soon to be fascist in chief may not like too much either after a short period of time. http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/in_2013_gen_james_mattis_compared_israeli_occupation_to_apartheid_20161203

I doubt Trump was aware that General Mattis made this accurate assessment back in 2013:

Quote

I’ll tell you, the current situation is unsustainable ... We’ve got to find a way to make work the two-state solution that both Democrat and Republican administrations have supported, and the chances are starting to ebb because of the settlements. For example, if I’m Jerusalem and I put 500 Jewish settlers to the east and there’s ten thousand Arabs already there, and if we draw the border to include them, either [Israel] ceases to be a Jewish state or you say the Arabs don’t get to vote — apartheid. That didn’t work too well the last time I saw that practiced in a country.

Ulysses G. · December 4, 2016

I am guessing that Trump WAS aware of the General's opinion. He does not seem to be looking for parrots or brown-nosers to serve him, but he is the one that will make the final decisions on American policy.

sgtsabai · December 4, 2016

yes, you are guessing. I doubt very, very seriously that General Mattis will carry out some of the fascists orders if he does what he has said he will do, i.e reinstate torture etc. The fascist is not aware of anything except an opportunity to make a buck off some poor soul's back.

Ulysses G. · December 4, 2016

Hiring the best people, instead of boot-lickers and Yes Men is a good thing. Trump is under no obligation to do more than consider their advice.

hawker9000 · December 4, 2016

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I am guessing that Trump WAS aware of the General's opinion. He does not seem to be looking for parrots or brown-nosers to serve him, but he is the one that will make the final decisions on American policy.

You're probably wasting your breath. After 8 years of Obama and an entire campaign season of Hillary, wingnuts simply cannot relate to or even so much as contemplate the very idea of non-sycophantic cabinet secretaries, advisors, assorted water carriers, party cranks, goons, etc. The "civilian control of the military" weirdness just because a retired flag is nominated for SECDEF is going to prove fairly typical of the sorts of 5th grade commentary we can expect for all of Trump's nominees going forward. I'd expect everything from "didn't tie a square knot properly once" to "owns a necktie made overseas". Who cares? (Wiki probably should; it's evidently the go-to source for sour grapes...)

Damrongsak · December 4, 2016

" Mattis was counselled to choose his words more carefully. "

I believe that was from former USMC Commandant Hagee. Hagee apparently didn't care for the politics in D.C. His wife told me that at a luncheon in the home of the Commandant in D.C. I was sitting next to her. (Silke Hagee is a class act.)

AGLV0121 · December 5, 2016

On 12/2/2016 at 11:18 AM, Penicillin said:

Only under a democrat president could that happen .

Go tell that to Adm. Bill McRaven in person

Not that I personally have no opinion, as I fought for another country, but pussy is not the exact term to use for this guy! :)

Morch · December 5, 2016

On 12/4/2016 at 7:46 AM, Johpa said:

CENTCOM may not originate policy but it does originate military strategies and is a primary advisor relative to policy in the Middle East. It has played a central role in the failures in that region. It needs to be disbanded and then somehow reconstituted with new people who have no connection to the previous object failures of that command.

There is blame to go around, but we need generals who can stand their ground against the military-industrial complex, against the "shadow government" or "deep state" or whatever you want to call it. I want generals who can tell the neocons to f$!k off when they want to invade some country for no good reason, their careers be damned. The lives of their men and women in uniform should matter more. Mattis, and most of CENTCOM's former commanders are not such people.

And if you would like a more detailed criticism of CENTCOM's failure may I suggest Andrew Bacevich's recent book "America's War for the Greater Middle East".

Trump d'III

CENTCOM does not make policy. Military strategy to relevant issues falling under CENTCOM sphere of responsibilities does not wholly originate from CENTCOM, nor is it free from limitations imposed by policy.

The reason that CENTCOM may be seen by some as responsible, or playing a central tole in the debacles of related US foreign policy is that it's the main executive and operational arm of policy makers.

Calling for better policies, fine. Calling for restructuring of CENTCOM sphere of operations and responsibilities, fine. Calling for it to be disbanded the sort of tear-it-all-down talk, which often overlooks what-next questions. I find it both simplistic and off mark.

As generals daring to voice opposing views to prevalent political trends, Trump actually picked two not afraid of speaking their mind. It remains to be seen how this will play out, but neither is the quintessential yes man. That their views may not conform with yours or mine does not necessarily make them submissive or clueless.

I'm not a big fan of views relying on "military-industrial complex", "shadow government", "deep state" and the like. Most often, these are simply in easy cop out used in the absence of any factual and firm reasoning.

With regards to the reading recommendation, allow me to disagree. The book referred to does not exactly lay all the blame on CENTCOM, but rather takes a larger picture approach. Interestingly enough, the book does deal with misconceptions regarding the US military might and its application, with some of the assertions actually in line with things opined by Mattis. On the other hand, while it might be doing a fine job detailing the US side of things, there's relatively little differentiation offered when it comes to local populace. This bit, which I find misguided, is actually contradictory to Mattis's take. Strangely enough, it does seem to resonate with Flynn's views, which intuitively appears odd considering the posts filled by these two retired generals.

hawker9000 · December 5, 2016

18 hours ago, Xircal said:

Speak for yourself.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. 'Seems you like giving advice much better than you like taking it.

Well, if you can't stand the heat...

hawker9000 · December 5, 2016

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 9:05 PM, Penicillin said:

Yeah , huhu, this is terrible ! We want a ISIS fighting Marine DOD General who's moniker is "Pussycat" !!

Or maybe "Sugarbear", or "Pet Petunia". 'Something sort o' gentle & sweet smelling, ya' know?

sgtsabai · December 5, 2016

http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/12/defense-secretary-nominee-gen-james-mattis-vows-make-killing-great/?utm_source=Duffel+Blog+Fans&utm_campaign=aaf02b097f-Duffel_Blog_Daily&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6d392bc034-aaf02b097f-23778865&goal=0_6d392bc034-aaf02b097f-23778865&mc_cid=aaf02b097f&mc_eid=16e68b9d0d

Semper Fi...Go mad dawg...lol.

Scott · December 5, 2016

Off-topic, bickering posts have been removed, along with replies. Suspensions will be given.

hawker9000 · December 5, 2016

8 hours ago, sgtsabai said:

http://www.duffelblog.com/2016/12/defense-secretary-nominee-gen-james-mattis-vows-make-killing-great/?utm_source=Duffel+Blog+Fans&utm_campaign=aaf02b097f-Duffel_Blog_Daily&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6d392bc034-aaf02b097f-23778865&goal=0_6d392bc034-aaf02b097f-23778865&mc_cid=aaf02b097f&mc_eid=16e68b9d0d

Semper Fi...Go mad dawg...lol.

Yeap, duffelblog, ... offers to bring even "more hilarious stories to your inbox". ("Mabus plans to rename Navy Cross to "Navy Plus" medal." lol)

Careful, Sarge. Most tv wingnuts will take that "make killing great again" quote seriously and become irresistibly drawn to start parroting it.

sgtsabai · December 7, 2016

Yea, aware of that, but the devil made me do it...lol. Ah, most of them don't have the slightest clue as to killing, they damage done when the bullet hits the bone, they are lucky there. I can image their discomfort when being confronted with the "Onion" of the militay and having to realize it is a joke on them...lol. And a plus, most of them don't have a clue about the military and couldn't understand the simplest joke on the duffelblog, much like they believe Onion...lol.

NeverSure · December 7, 2016

Topic: "Trump to nominate retired Gen. James Mattis to lead Pentagon."

Someone needs to lead it. We haven't had any leadership for at least 8 years.

"Pentagon buries evidence of $125 billion in bureaucratic waste."

December 5, 2016

"The Pentagon has buried an internal study that exposed $125 billion in administrative waste in its business operations amid fears Congress would use the findings as an excuse to slash the defense budget, according to interviews and confidential memos obtained by The Washington Post.

Pentagon leaders had requested the study to help make their enormous back-office bureaucracy more efficient and reinvest any savings in combat power. But after the project documented far more wasteful spending than expected, senior defense officials moved swiftly to kill it by discrediting and suppressing the results."

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