Australian Age Pension Rules for Expats about to change again from 1 January 2017

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

Why? No tax dollars are put aside into a OAP fund. The OPA is paid by working Australians to help out the needy. Again, Oz, not UK.

 

Why keep repeating "not UK", we all understand the thread is about Australia!

 

And why should non-Australians who have participated in the Australian tax system through residency and work be penalised?

[simple1]

@Scorecard

 

You may like to contact Centrelink International services - From Thailand - 001 800 611 4136

 

For some background info on transferring from Disability Pension to Age Pension...

 

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/transfer-age-pension

[simple1]

12 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Why keep repeating "not UK", we all understand the thread is about Australia!

 

And why should non-Australians who have participated in the Australian tax system through residency and work be penalised?

 

You are not penalised so long as you meet the Oz Govt Age Pension criteria. I have a small Govt pension from HMG (AUD400 pm.- treated as income by Oz) + Age Pension from Oz Govt

[moojar]

18 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

Why keep repeating "not UK", we all understand the thread is about Australia!

 

And why should non-Australians who have participated in the Australian tax system through residency and work be penalised?

Because the country cannot afford to give everyone a pension - no money was put aside for it, there is no money to pay for it. A pension is not a right - it is welfare, for those that need it.   

 

So the government is tightening the criteria, making it more difficult to get a pension.  And those living offshore are an easy target, coz most people living onshore don't like Australian welfare money  being spent in Thailand, or Bali, or Greece, ... 

 

Unfortunately we are part of the great wave of baby boomers at or approaching retirement.  Once we die off they may relax the rules again.  The ever-whining generations that follow us will probably demand it. 

[sandgroper2]

2 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I always thought the law was very clear - you must be in Australia on the day you lodge your application. The only exemption of which I'm aware is that you're resident in a country with which the Aussie government has a reciprocal social services agreement and so you're entitled to the Australian payments through your existing government's arrangement eg. an American who has worked in Australia but goes back to the US may be entitled to a part-pension from the Australian government (as is a friend of mine)

 

Centrelink: "On the day you submit your claim you must be an Australian resident and physically present in Australia". An Australian resident means "an Australian citizen or a permanent resident" https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/services/centrelink/age-pension

My mate , Davo, was in a coma in an iron lung with 15 intravenous tubes stuck in him ,we simply wheeled the lung into the Oz Embassy Bangkook, Ozzie territory, and signed him on. No sweat mate.

[DavisH]

17 hours ago, louse1953 said:

A lot of us are not residents,even though we have the 35 years available to work covered.We have to re-establish residency which takes 2 years.

I know about being there for 2 years before the pension is portable. I left Australia when I was about 31 and I'm 48 now. I would pretty much have to return until I retired just to get the pension....that would be tough, not having much in the way of assets there. 

[sandgroper2]

9 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Further to my previous reply, what do you mean I chose not to pay the ferry man ?

 

I worked for over 35 years, paid at least a million dollars in taxes and when out of the country for 183 had to make a decision, to return or to sell my property or face the music, i.e. pay 32.5c in the $ tax and full capital gains tax on the future increase of its value, at no time was I provided with the opportunity to contribute to keep my Medicare entitlements up and running, and am not allowed to vote, after all, Australia is the place I was born, and I am an Australian citizen, how appropriate of the government to cunningly work this out, i.e. if they want to have a better life overseas, we will grant you that, but no entitlement or opportunity to pay into Medicare so you can keep it, we will take away your voting rights because you are no longer a resident, therefore you don't count, keep your property and we will make sure you sell it or we will tax you to the eyeballs so as to force it upon you to sell it, we will however let you keep your Australian Citizenship in case you change your mind, that, and we wouldn't want a public outcry for cancelling your Australian Citizenship, because you probably have family here x hundreds of thousands of votes.

 

Don't become a raw prawn with me, oy !

You claim to have paid over a million in taxes over the last 35 years. That is $25000.00 a year . The average wage 35 years ago in Oz was only $30000.00.  You dont need the OAP,  You have beebn earning a fortune all these years, good on ya mate.

[aussieinthailand]

7 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

You didn't pay for your pension. You paid for everyone else's pension who was getting it at the time. Taxes do not cover future expenditure (ie. your pension) but current expenditure (ie. someone else's pension if they're a pensioner when you're a taxpayer). However a lot of this chatter about "I paid taxes all my life" is so much nonsense. Unless you're a single person, no kids, you were probably a tax bludger most of your life, not a tax payer. You got money back, directly and indirectly, for having kids, for the government educating them, for Medicare paying for their treatment for free (your Medicare levy doesn't go up just because you have kids). Don't need to believe me, these statistics are available year after year but they're an inconvenient truth so the tax bludgers all ignore them and keep on whingeing.

I guess you have a point there, BUT we are all not in the same boat/tax bludger...

I paid my taxes for 35 years left school at 15 ready for work, not 16 as now is the requiared age by Center link,  left OZ at 45 years.

So most of the kids schooling was privet school no cost too tax payers, worked weekends and OT, privet health insurance agian not a drain on the tax payers, my latter years in a six figure wage so a lot higher taxes and medicare levi, devorce, child support, etc.  

So now If I want an OZ pension in the next 17 years or so(currntly 50 year old)  as promised for most of my working life by Gov't  I have to go back to OZ for 2 years and live on thin air for 2 years before I can apply to get the OAP because WHO IN THE WIDE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS HIRING A 65 YEAR OLD???<deleted>???...   The other little chest nut that Center link like to use is your "domicile"  then quote them the Oxford dictionary of "domicile and resident, and they go running to the boss.

[4MyEgo]

41 minutes ago, sandgroper2 said:

You claim to have paid over a million in taxes over the last 35 years. That is $25000.00 a year . The average wage 35 years ago in Oz was only $30000.00.  You dont need the OAP,  You have beebn earning a fortune all these years, good on ya mate.

 

Just so your up to speed, I didn't make my money from earning a good wage, that was to survive on and pay bills, like everybody else. I made my money from real estate in Sydney and paid a lot on capital gains (tax) on investments, sure I have a few coins in the bank, and a few shares, suffice to say I am not short of a few quid, although I am still entitled to the OAP, meaning I would do what everyone else does, unload their assets 5 years prior, that is if I want to get the OAP, which as much as it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, is my entitlement under Australian law, suffice to say, I didn't create the system, I just follow it.

 

I had to sell my property or pay 32.5c in the $ and full capital gains tax on its future value from the day I departed, suffice to say if the government just left things alone and allowed me to hang onto it, that would have been my nest egg, no, but they chose to treat me as a non resident for tax purposes so that they could gain from my loss, which includes me not be entitled to Medicare having to fork out for private hospital cover if I chose to take it up and not allow me to vote as a citizen. I just don't get what part you don't get, they tried to shaft me and every other expat by putting in place these measures.

 

All I am doing is following the law and the system, I didn't create the mess, I paid my dues and might collect, if I am in the mood in years to come, or might leave it for the needy as your indicating 555 

Edited December 9, 2016 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

I guess you have a point there, BUT we are all not in the same boat/tax bludger...

I paid my taxes for 35 years left school at 15 ready for work, not 16 as now is the requiared age by Center link,  left OZ at 45 years.

So most of the kids schooling was privet school no cost too tax payers, worked weekends and OT, privet health insurance agian not a drain on the tax payers, my latter years in a six figure wage so a lot higher taxes and medicare levi, devorce, child support, etc.  

So now If I want an OZ pension in the next 17 years or so(currntly 50 year old)  as promised for most of my working life by Gov't  I have to go back to OZ for 2 years and live on thin air for 2 years before I can apply to get the OAP because WHO IN THE WIDE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS HIRING A 65 YEAR OLD???<deleted>???...   The other little chest nut that Center link like to use is your "domicile"  then quote them the Oxford dictionary of "domicile and resident, and they go running to the boss.

 

Finally another Aussie that gets it, been there, done that, time to stick it right back at em !

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, DavisH said:

I know about being there for 2 years before the pension is portable. I left Australia when I was about 31 and I'm 48 now. I would pretty much have to return until I retired just to get the pension....that would be tough, not having much in the way of assets there. 

 

Gotta feel for yah, F... that, the slave trade ain't pretty by far...

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Gotta feel for yah, F... that, the slave trade ain't pretty by far...

Actually it's not all that bad. We have a good family income and the house should be paid off soon. Wide will also have a fat govt pension soon. I also have a fund of my own and some shares back in OZ. I just don't have any inclination to go back and work for the man, paying half my salary in tax and most of the rest on rent and consumables. 

[louse1953]

12 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I think the best way to go about it is to apply and if they put me down as a non resident, so be it, at least I can have some coin coming in for the 2 years there before I can return.

 

The plan will be something like this: 1st year we will stay in Sydney, visiting friends and family, and trying to make some jam on the side, you see I have to up heave the kids which will be 14 and 9 which is a pain in the ass, however after putting them in school for 12 months, we will look at hiring or purchasing one of those motor homes and travelling around Australia for about a year, and sure Medicare will get a work over, don't you worry about that.  The after the 2 years is up, its as Arnie would say; astalavista baby 555

 

Well that's the plan anyway.

What happens when the missus and kids don't want to go back.Seen it happen.

[louse1953]

5 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

I guess you have a point there, BUT we are all not in the same boat/tax bludger...

I paid my taxes for 35 years left school at 15 ready for work, not 16 as now is the requiared age by Center link,  left OZ at 45 years.

So most of the kids schooling was privet school no cost too tax payers, worked weekends and OT, privet health insurance agian not a drain on the tax payers, my latter years in a six figure wage so a lot higher taxes and medicare levi, devorce, child support, etc.  

So now If I want an OZ pension in the next 17 years or so(currntly 50 year old)  as promised for most of my working life by Gov't  I have to go back to OZ for 2 years and live on thin air for 2 years before I can apply to get the OAP because WHO IN THE WIDE WIDE WORLD OF SPORTS IS HIRING A 65 YEAR OLD???<deleted>???...   The other little chest nut that Center link like to use is your "domicile"  then quote them the Oxford dictionary of "domicile and resident, and they go running to the boss.

If you are an Aust citizen you will get some part of a pension as soon as you sign on.The thin air part kicks in if you decide to leave before that 2 years is up.

[louse1953]

13 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Part right for me, I would have to go back in 9 years when I am 65 and then wait till I am 67, as opposed to being 63 and waiting till I was 65 to get the OAP, remembering the bastards lifted it for those of us born after 1957, so it is now 67, I suppose you could say its 6,2,1, half dozen the other, but its 2 years of non payments and we have to survive another 2 years...lol

That's why i am going back when i am 65 and half and get payments straight away.Would have problems getting the pitiful dole.Iwould rather stay here as a "younger man" than wallow around in oz.

[louse1953]

12 hours ago, ozzydom said:

Your maths need a bit of work,

In earlier posts you claim to have the 35year residency covered which would take you to minimum 51 years of age then you claim to have been out of Oz for 10 years which would make you 61 yo,now you claim to be only 56yo, just does not add up.

You obviously have not taken into account in your planning,the implications of getting a Thai wife and two kids into Oz on long term Visas,Boy are you in for some nasty surprises.

Nar not really hard,just more paperwork and money.

[SaintLouisBlues]

9 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

So most of the kids schooling was privet school no cost too tax payers, worked weekends and OT, privet health insurance agian not a drain on the tax payers

Private schools (or even privet schools) receive federal government funding in Australia and have done so since Robert Menzies was prime minister. Private (or privet) health insurance does not cover trips to the doctor and does not cover 100% of in-hospital costs, and no medicines which are covered by the taxpayer-funded Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. You are living in fantasy land if you think you've gained nothing from the tax system. Perhaps like someone else who tried arguing that his circumstances did not make him a tax bludger, you missed out that four-letter word in my original comments - "most"

Edited December 9, 2016 by SaintLouisBlues

[georgemandm]

This is not thai  related how it has not been stop by the  mediators gets me .

 

The bloke who started it has no idea about how it all works , just loves to run my great county Australia down all the time .

 

Yes the Australia government waste our tax payers money , but all governments all over the world do it the same .

 

Taxes are to run the country and are not for your  pension fund . 

 

The new  rules starting in January , will not  affect  normal pensioners .

It will affect  pensioners on part pension who have over $500,000 in  assets , this is outside there  Family home ,  those pensioners will lose there part pension

and this is for the  Single pensioners .

My friend will be  affected , he was telling me all about it . 

The 2 year wait and the loss of $40 a week for  Single pension when you come to live in Thailand , has been around for years.

 

 

[aussieinthailand]

7 hours ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Private schools (or even privet schools) receive federal government funding in Australia and have done so since Robert Menzies was prime minister. Private (or privet) health insurance does not cover trips to the doctor and does not cover 100% of in-hospital costs, and no medicines which are covered by the taxpayer-funded Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. You are living in fantasy land if you think you've gained nothing from the tax system. Perhaps like someone else who tried arguing that his circumstances did not make him a tax bludger, you missed out that four-letter word in my original comments - "most"

Yu'p privet schools also have federal funding,  perants sending kids to public schools have a lot lower out of poket expences, and privet health insurance doesn't cover trips to the doctor also, and neither dose the medicare, so out of poket, medicines also out of poket that which insurnce isn't 100%. covered.

How about the dentist ay,,, when was the last time you had an all expenses paid trip too the dentist at the public exspence? 

so what I was trying to say is the taxes I have paid in is far greater than any drain on the public purse and even if I could collect the OAP for  few years, the ATO has well and truly taken it's fair share from most of us.

Question, just what makes a person a "tax bludger" in your expert opinion???  nd are you a "tax bludger" also???

Edited December 10, 2016 by aussieinthailand

[georgemandm]

11 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Nar not really hard,just more paperwork and money.

You are very ,very wrong if you want to take your thai wife and two kids. To Australia for long time visa it will cost you $30,000 Australia dollars as the visa is going up soon .

and you still get more paperwork 

i know I am doing it now and one of my friends who live in Australia with his thai wife no kids told me so .

if his kids are Australia half thai they go free .

so $10,000 for the thai wife .

[georgemandm]

11 hours ago, louse1953 said:

What happens when the missus and kids don't want to go back.Seen it happen.

You are very right if those kids have been here in thailand for that long will not like Australia at all and I have seen it happen as well , is happening now to my friend trying to live back in Australia now .

wife dose not like it and the kids want to go back to thailand.

[SaintLouisBlues]

44 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

so what I was trying to say is the taxes I have paid in is far greater than any drain on the public purse ...

In that case you are well and truly in the minority, so as I said originally "most" would not apply to you

[georgemandm]

15 hours ago, DavisH said:

Actually it's not all that bad. We have a good family income and the house should be paid off soon. Wide will also have a fat govt pension soon. I also have a fund of my own and some shares back in OZ. I just don't have any inclination to go back and work for the man, paying half my salary in tax and most of the rest on rent and consumables. 

You pay half your salary in taxes not true is it the top tax rate is 45 % how do you get half ? . 

If you were not good at trying to buy a home in Australia your  problem , that you have to pay rent .

and if you are in that high tax rate you must be on great money a year.

so you come to thailand pay of your wife's home and complaining about paying rent in Australia gets me people like you .

 

[aussieinthailand]

1 minute ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

In that case you are well and truly in the minority, so as I said originally "most" would not apply to you

Yu'p cool.  "most" I got it the first time round mate.

 

So will you nswer my question or aviod it?  what makes a person "tax bludger"?  and are you a "tax bludger"?

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, louse1953 said:

What happens when the missus and kids don't want to go back.Seen it happen.

 

Like I said, I am a planner, she has already agreed, lets not forget, once I have it and then croak, she keeps getting it, oy !

[georgemandm]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

 

Like I said, I am a planner, she has already agreed, lets not forget, once I have it and then croak, she keeps getting it, oy !

You no that's not true 

[FNQ]

On 07/12/2016 at 10:46 AM, novo58 said:

for those too lazy to actually .read the attached links .............it clearly states :      "according to their years of working life residence in Australia". This is calculated from the age of 16 years old.

 

To me this means to get the full rate age pension you must have lived in australia for 35 or more years from the age of 16yrs old ( it DOES NOT mention work).

Then it appears that AFTER you qualify for the age pension there is a 2 year timeframe BEFORE the full rate age pension becomes portable( ie, able to be collected whilst outside the country). After this if you live outside Australia you will lose some added concessions  such as free travel , electricity subsidy etc

Working life of 35 years from 16 is correct... Re the 2 year comment I retired march 30 flew out april 20 with a full pension and losing the supplements after 6 weeks ( I think it was 6 wks)  Also I was told that you have to reside in Oz 2 years prior to claiming the pension..Ergo, they put you on Newstart (dole) until the 2 years is up, going through all the rigmarole of the dole. I personally can not confirm the latter and not really interested .Cheers all

[simple1]

21 hours ago, FNQ said:

Working life of 35 years from 16 is correct... Re the 2 year comment I retired march 30 flew out april 20 with a full pension and losing the supplements after 6 weeks ( I think it was 6 wks)  Also I was told that you have to reside in Oz 2 years prior to claiming the pension..Ergo, they put you on Newstart (dole) until the 2 years is up, going through all the rigmarole of the dole. I personally can not confirm the latter and not really interested .Cheers all

 

Incorrect. I returned to Oz about four months prior to claiming Age Pension. Admittedly I was initially on Newstart (helps to meet residency criteria) then rolled over to Age Pension.

[seajae]

well for all those that do qualify for the aussie pension you may be interested to know that the aussie embassy in Bangkok will but putting up all their fees  next year to $70 for virtually everything, today a stat dec was only $26 as was a notary charge for another document($52 for both), will be $140 for both next time, suppose they have to be able to make some of their money back from all us pensioners somehow.

[sandgroper2]

By the time this topic is finished, we will all be dead from  old age anyway.