Rape of Aussie tourist in Bangkok: More details emerge as hunt for Thai rapists intensifies

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

I wouldn't.

 

The blame lies with the rapist not their victims.

Yes, certainly but a proportion of blame lies with her and her parents. I have two step daughters here,one 21 year old and a 16 year old, the 21 year old is beyond my control now of course but that is now no longer necessary, she doesn't drink,she doesn't smoke and she associates with what i term, 'nice people'. When she came under my control she was 10, when she was a teen she was to be home by a certain time or i would go looking for her, i wanted to know who she was with and where she was going, i wanted to know about her friends, on parents day at school i would ask the teacher about the people she was friends with and would warn her off of certain people (which proved correct as those people are now in prison for selling drugs). The same goes for the 16 year old, they are courteous and responsible young ladies ( i use the term 'ladies' on purpose, for the Australian i use the word woman). My son is 9 and has a close relationship with his two half sisters and they guide him as much as i do,in fact he takes more notice of them than of me, i have done a good job of parenting so i wont see my daughters getting raped or have my son being arrested for rape or drug dealing.

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes, certainly but a proportion of blame lies with her and her parents. I have two step daughters here,one 21 year old and a 16 year old, the 21 year old is beyond my control now of course but that is now no longer necessary, she doesn't drink,she doesn't smoke and she associates with what i term, 'nice people'. When she came under my control she was 10, when she was a teen she was to be home by a certain time or i would go looking for her, i wanted to know who she was with and where she was going, i wanted to know about her friends, on parents day at school i would ask the teacher about the people she was friends with and would warn her off of certain people (which proved correct as those people are now in prison for selling drugs). The same goes for the 16 year old, they are courteous and responsible young ladies ( i use the term 'ladies' on purpose, for the Australian i use the word woman). My son is 9 and has a close relationship with his two half sisters and they guide him as much as i do,in fact he takes more notice of them than of me, i have done a good job of parenting so i wont see my daughters getting raped or have my son being arrested for rape or drug dealing.

That does not mean that victims of rape should be told of they did this, that or other wrong after their assault.

 

That is victim blaming.

 

Giving advise is the right thing to do, but after a rape the only thing that matters when talking to the victim is making it clear it was not their fault.

[The manic]

On 10/12/2016 at 8:18 AM, animalmagic said:

It may interest you to know that police and hospitals worldwide have a variety of tests that are carried out on women who claim to be the victim of rape.  These tests can, through medical and forensic examination, confirm that violent non consensual sex has taken place.  This internationally accepted procedure, when coupled with the report of the victim and statements from witnesses who observe the victim and their behaviour shortly after the rape allows the hospital to CONFIRM that a rape has taken place.

You may wish to bear this in mind for your next date.

But does not confirm WHO the rapist was. She may have had bad sex with her drinking buddy and then blamed it on the Thai drivers. If she was so drunk nothing she says is reliable.

[The manic]

On 10/12/2016 at 8:18 AM, animalmagic said:

It may interest you to know that police and hospitals worldwide have a variety of tests that are carried out on women who claim to be the victim of rape.  These tests can, through medical and forensic examination, confirm that violent non consensual sex has taken place.  This internationally accepted procedure, when coupled with the report of the victim and statements from witnesses who observe the victim and their behaviour shortly after the rape allows the hospital to CONFIRM that a rape has taken place.

You may wish to bear this in mind for your next date.

But does not confirm WHO the rapist was. She may have had bad sex with her drinking buddy and then blamed it on the Thai drivers. If she was so drunk nothing she says is reliable.

[The manic]

26 minutes ago, seahorse said:

Why does anyone commit crime? Because they don't have a moral code.

Depends on the crime. 

[soalbundy]

31 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

That does not mean that victims of rape should be told of they did this, that or other wrong after their assault.

 

That is victim blaming.

 

Giving advise is the right thing to do, but after a rape the only thing that matters when talking to the victim is making it clear it was not their fault.

so they can make the same behavioral mistakes again?

[Wallander4]

On ‎12‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:21 AM, tominbkk said:

You think rapists are Thai men only?  That's pretty racist thinking, and incorrect.  

You do realize this is a thai-forum ... its not called sudanvisa or nigeriavisa right ...

[metisdead]

Some bickering posts and replies have been removed.  

[cyberfarang]

7 hours ago, optad said:

Fark me. 

Shoot from the hip and speak gospel to the converted. 

 

Appalling projection from a poster who obviously has never erred. She had a few and now it is her fault. 

She had way more than a few by the look of her condition in the video and now according to some Thai news reports there are inconsistencies with her statement of events of what took place on that night. They are saying that CCT video and images shows her to be in a different location at the time she alleged to have been raped.

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Advise should be given but not to the victim after a rape has taken place.

 

That is victim blaming.

 

Its a hard one blues... your quite correct in that advice should be given before the fact, in the form of education and good morales etc.

 

after the fact?

 

well... don't do it again is about it.... turn yourself in?... most parents would want to protect their kids, so that's unlikely.... turn them in as the parent... again, unlikely that a parent will

 

so... back to education and respect for others, as they grow up.

 

and... victim blaming is repugnant.... yes, this woman should have known better than to get so wasted... but no matter how wasted, this does not mean "rape me"

 

those that think (or suggest)  it does, need to check their own morale compass

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, seahorse said:

People like Bluespunk don't live in the real world. I don't need to give advice to my sons not to rape. They don't need that advice because they have been brought up with a moral code. To suggest that men need to be given specific advice by their parents not to rape is nonsensical and typical of today's feminised men.

What I would advise them to do is not to get so drunk (especially alone) in a foreign country that they could get into trouble. And doubly so for my daughters.

 

And there's the answer to blues question....

 

"they don't need advise because they have been brought up with a moral code"

 

ie... given (learnt) education and morales.

[sweatalot]

12 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I'm not old fashioned or wanting to protect anyone.

 

I just find your view is one I do not share because I don't believe it to be true.

 

The vast majority of victims reporting rape do so because the rape happened. 

 

Many more do not report them.

 

Those making false claims are a minority, a very small one at that.

 

As for quotes

 

“They are all innocent until proven guilty. But not me. I am a liar until I am proven honest.” 
― Louise O'Neill, Asking For It

Dear Bluespunk, 

I respect your standpoint. Unfortunately it is based on incomplete information. Statistics say different. I would have believed like you that if a woman says she was raped it must be true. Then the Kachelmann / Claudia Dinkel affair happened in Germany. She said she was raped by him and he was immidiately arrested like a criminal and stayed in remand prison fo r 120 days. In this time his business went down the drain. The coroner refused to investigate anything that could be exculpatory for him. Only on demand of his lawyer the police confiscated her computer - and found evidence that she had planned everyhing including self inflicted injuries. Even then the coroner continued his plan to indict him. The court did not allow witnesses in favor of the accused. They seemed to be totally determined to convict him. The lawsuit took one year or more. In this time many people followed the case closely. Experts from police and forensic published facts and a lot of bloggers surveyed. And they found lots of proven fake rapes. Many of them proven by forensic doctors who examined the allegedly raped  women. Statistics say that 50 % or more of the charges pressed against alleged rapists were lies. Only some feminist groups around the infamous Alice Schwarzer claimed otherwise.

 

Don't let me be misunderstood. Rape is a crime and it has to be appropriately punished.

But the law gives every woman, even the most evil and stupid, a joker to bring even the best and most innocent man into prison.

You remember the case Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Or the German actor Karl Dall? Or ...

 

The consequences for a man being innocent in prison are extreme, can cost him his future, his friends, his family. All that because a lying bitch and a failure of the law system. This means the law has the duty to make absolutely sure that his guilt is proven. And the law also has the duty to investigate the alleged victim to make sure her allegations are true. 

And if not the woman has to face the same sentence that the man would have got if found guilty.

 

All you well meaning women understanders have to realize that if there is a means to destroy somebody some people -or many - will abuse it. And the rape law and the standard procedures in those cases are a poisoned arrow in every woman's hand.

Not only women need to be protected - men also need protection from wrong accusation

 

Not only do I want my daughters to be protected from rape - but also my sons to be protected from falsely accused of rape

 

 

[performance]

17 hours ago, roo860 said:

Stickboy on twitter there's video footage of her with another foreigner on Kao Sarn Rd.
Aparrantly things don't quite add up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

Sticky boy is a pest and sexual deviat

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

so they can make the same behavioral mistakes again?

The victim is not to blame.

 

Only the rapist.

 

On a more personal note, I find the implication and complete lack of empathy behind your statement appalling. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

The victim is not to blame.

 

Only the rapist.

 

On a more personal note, I find the implication and complete lack of empathy behind your statement appalling. 

be appalled, i can do far worse.

[Bluespunk]

52 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

Dear Bluespunk, 

I respect your standpoint. Unfortunately it is based on incomplete information. Statistics say different. I would have believed like you that if a woman says she was raped it must be true. Then the Kachelmann / Claudia Dinkel affair happened in Germany. She said she was raped by him and he was immidiately arrested like a criminal and stayed in remand prison fo r 120 days. In this time his business went down the drain. The coroner refused to investigate anything that could be exculpatory for him. Only on demand of his lawyer the police confiscated her computer - and found evidence that she had planned everyhing including self inflicted injuries. Even then the coroner continued his plan to indict him. The court did not allow witnesses in favor of the accused. They seemed to be totally determined to convict him. The lawsuit took one year or more. In this time many people followed the case closely. Experts from police and forensic published facts and a lot of bloggers surveyed. And they found lots of proven fake rapes. Many of them proven by forensic doctors who examined the allegedly raped  women. Statistics say that 50 % or more of the charges pressed against alleged rapists were lies. Only some feminist groups around the infamous Alice Schwarzer claimed otherwise.

 

Don't let me be misunderstood. Rape is a crime and it has to be appropriately punished.

But the law gives every woman, even the most evil and stupid, a joker to bring even the best and most innocent man into prison.

You remember the case Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Or the German actor Karl Dall? Or ...

 

The consequences for a man being innocent in prison are extreme, can cost him his future, his friends, his family. All that because a lying bitch and a failure of the law system. This means the law has the duty to make absolutely sure that his guilt is proven. And the law also has the duty to investigate the alleged victim to make sure her allegations are true. 

And if not the woman has to face the same sentence that the man would have got if found guilty.

 

All you well meaning women understanders have to realize that if there is a means to destroy somebody some people -or many - will abuse it. And the rape law and the standard procedures in those cases are a poisoned arrow in every woman's hand.

Not only women need to be protected - men also need protection from wrong accusation

 

Not only do I want my daughters to be protected from rape - but also my sons to be protected from falsely accused of rape

 

 

We're going round in circles here.

 

I still do not share your point of view. 

 

The vast majority of those claiming to be raped are genuine victims.

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, soalbundy said:

be appalled, i can do far worse.

That is your burden, not mine.

[rwdrwdrwd]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

All i can say is if that was my daughter i would blame her and myself for failing to bring her up in a correct manner

 

All I can say is that hopefully your parents aren't huge fans of empathy, sympathy,  compassion and respectfulness.

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

 

Hopefully your parents aren't huge fans of empathy and sympathy.

you mean presumably, not hopefully and 'aren't' should be replaced with 'weren't' today.

No, they were disciplinarian, and all 6 children,bar one, the last child when they slacked off, managed to get through life without seeing the inside of a court room.

[rwdrwdrwd]

23 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

you mean presumably, not hopefully and 'aren't' should be replaced with 'weren't' today.

No, they were disciplinarian, and all 6 children,bar one, managed to get through life without seeing the inside of a court room.

 

No, I meant 'hopefully',  as in I 'hope' for the sake of their own happiness. I do not  presume that they are (or were)  actually happy with the lack of those traits in their offspring.

 

A 16.6%  failure rate isn't especially great.

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

All i can say is if that was my daughter i would blame her and myself for failing to bring her up in a correct manner

 

I would say the blame would be all yours, for your failure to bring her up in the correct manner.

 

i blows my mind that you would consider blaming your daughter, if she was raped.

 

a father who would do that, is another reason why a rape would go unreported.

 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, rwdrwdrwd said:

 

No, I meant 'hopefully',  as in I 'hope' for the sake if their own happiness.

 

A 16.6%  success rate isn't especially great.

16.6% failure rate, not success rate. The failure rate has been attributed to a chemical imbalance in the brain so not really related to his upbringing. As for happiness, they were hard working people at a time when you didn't get any help from the state, i was told that my mother often went hungry to make sure we were all well fed, so disciplinarian and consequent in their responsibilities to us children, in the end my father became a millionaire due to hard work, God bless his little cotton socks, he was a good man.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, farcanell said:

 

I would say the blame would be all yours, for your failure to bring her up in the correct manner.

 

i blows my mind that you would consider blaming your daughter, if she was raped.

 

a father who would do that, is another reason why a rape would go unreported.

 

I think i put that badly, you would have to see it in context with the rest of the posts i made on this subject, it is my opinion that a certain amount of blame lies with the woman herself due to her disgraceful behaviour in public which also reflects upon the poor upbringing given by her parents. If that was my daughter yes i would remonstrate with her about her behaviour leading up to the rape but i would also have to ask myself why did she behave in this way,how had i brought her up etc.

Have you seen the pictures in the British press about the Christmas celebrations, skimpy dressed women lying around drunk outside on the cold pavement, civilization is a wonderful thing, maybe it will get to the UK one day.  

[Moonmoon]

When it comes to rape victims whether proven or not, its better to be sensitive and thread carefully. 

While we all know the preventive measures to not get victimised: if it does happen; its not good to go with "I told you so.."

 

If man can have the freedom to drink and not worried that much of a probability of being sexually assault, we should provide a society where a woman can be able to do that too.

Let the professionals handle this case. If she was raped as proven by the hospital, my heart goes out to her.

 

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

We're going round in circles here.

 

I still do not share your point of view. 

 

The vast majority of those claiming to be raped are genuine victims.

 

We are going round in circles because you don't bother to check facts which can be found in statistics

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, sweatalot said:

We are going round in circles because you don't bother to check facts which can be found in statistics

No, because I do check stats and facts and they come up with a very different version of what is happening.

 

[OldBag]

16 hours ago, seahorse said:

 

This is obviously an attempt at humour but rape is not a laughing matter.

 

This is not an attempt at humour; it's an attempt to put it in a way that maybe men get it.  And so they stop blaming the victim.

[OldBag]

54 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I think i put that badly, you would have to see it in context with the rest of the posts i made on this subject, it is my opinion that a certain amount of blame lies with the woman herself due to her disgraceful behaviour in public which also reflects upon the poor upbringing given by her parents. If that was my daughter yes i would remonstrate with her about her behaviour leading up to the rape but i would also have to ask myself why did she behave in this way,how had i brought her up etc.

Have you seen the pictures in the British press about the Christmas celebrations, skimpy dressed women lying around drunk outside on the cold pavement, civilization is a wonderful thing, maybe it will get to the UK one day.  

more important, what would you say to your sons??

[Bluespunk]

26 minutes ago, OldBag said:

This is not an attempt at humour; it's an attempt to put it in a way that maybe men get it.  And so they stop blaming the victim.

Good luck with that...

[soalbundy]

1 hour ago, OldBag said:

more important, what would you say to your sons??

I don't fear that either my daughters or my son will end up in such disgusting circumstances because i have expended a lot of energy in their upbringing and i think successfully. They are well mannered and show empathy towards others, how they behave towards each other and towards the others friends is a good indication of how they are as people, having said that nobody can look into the future, i just hope that they wont disappoint me.