SURVEY: Do you know anyone who has/is using a fake degree in Thailand?

[paulinbkk111]

Worked with someone who had one. Was in company for 4 years, pissed off someone who dobbed him to HR. Was dismissed the next day.

[simon43]

Quote

 

 Yes I am sure that I graduated from a real university (well polytechnic actually), how condescending of you Simon. 
 

 

 

I also graduated with my Bachelor degree from a poly, but I didn't lose my SoH in the process....  My degree was awarded by the CNAA (apparently the same authority as you). I obtained a copy of my transcript about 4 years ago, long after my poly had closed down.

 

I have no doubt that your degree is genuine.  But if you cannot provide proof of that qualification, then your word is worthless to a recruiter.

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by simon43

[ozmeldo]

12 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

I told a few of the Thai girls I was a gynecologist.

 

Does that count?

 

No, because you text'd them and could not spell the word correctly.

[ozmeldo]

Sorry, UK if your educational system cannot provide records of the classes you attended at universities and especially if you cannot get a certified letter from your school, I wouldn't give you a waiver or much of anything else. What a totally inept system.

 

In your cases, I'd allow you to bring all the documentation you have and make your best case to TCT on individual basis, every waiver but no way for a license. My 2b.

 

You don't get to change the requirements because you can't meet the standards.

[optad]

Private schools prefer directors to hold a phd. To attract MoE money they have to have them.

 

I worked for a boneless fellow who did not speak a word of English but had a phd from India. The guiling thing as their marriage was destructing, the wife decided to insure her future and asked me to prepare her paperwork to the do the same. Visas et al. Off she hopped to India for a two weeks. Returned with a doctorate. THey had a proxy in India do the papers in their names. Her daughter explicitly told what they doing. Private education in Thailand! lol. THey were sinister people too. 

[houlicha]

I have a perfectly valid degree from Cornell University which I no longer need as I am retired. It's in a very nice red leather folder, and I'll be glad to mail it to anyone in Thailand (if you can use it) for the right price.

[chrisinth]

On 12/12/2016 at 4:15 AM, ozmeldo said:

 

Rubbish. You obviously have no degree.

 

Daddy's money - bitter much? How cynical. What else do loving parents do with their money?

 

I paid my way through university, but I wish my parents were in a position to have helped me during those years. I could have gone to a decent law school. I'm just happy they made it thru that period, marriage intactm

 

Deleted by user

[chrisinth]

On 12/12/2016 at 4:13 AM, ozmeldo said:

Always excuses, I'm pushing sixty and all the institutions I attended can produce transcripts and the university authorization letters and duplicate diplomas. Over 40 a break, are you serious?

 

If the school people attend can't produce these things, they shouldn't be allowed to teach anyway, obviously substandard school. Obviously!

 

As a matter of interest, were any of these institutions British, or in the UK?

 

That is such an ironic response, that you could disrespect, out of hand, likely qualified personnel because they haven't got a transcript which wasn't issued at the time of their qualification. Because you haven't come across it?

 

That above comment is particularly relevant when you are talking about proper native English speakers..................... 

[fruitman]

18 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  Can  we assume  most of the  farlangs   with degrees , fake or not teach  English .

   What is more important, is that the teacher is from a Country where English is the spoken language.  imo

 

  

     

     

 

No way, there are many english nativ speakers with very bad accents....i seriously can't understand them and they can come from all english language continents.

[smotherb]

11 hours ago, paulinbkk111 said:

Worked with someone who had one. Was in company for 4 years, pissed off someone who dobbed him to HR. Was dismissed the next day.

Yeah, stories like that are commonplace, even in the upper ranks. I worked for a very successful American scientific R&D contractor; their executive vice president was found to have falsified his educational credentials--claimed a doctorate and didn't even have a bachelors--he was dismissed forthwith

[chrisinth]

As this thread is about fake diplomas, not necessarily in the teaching profession, I know several people using fake papers, living here but working abroad. These are contract people, mostly connected to O & G who are working in countries where the issue of work visas/work permits require that everybody must have a degree.

 

This is from project manager to the lowest manual labourer. World gone crazy for paperwork; people in government thinking they wil get better results if someone has a degree as opposed to experience & knowledge in the job. In most cases where false paperwork is used, the hiring company knows what is going on and that without it, in many cases, won't get the people necessary to get the job done right.

[Slip]

Sorry Simon- I genuinely didn't notice the humour that was in the comment.  The dangers of communication by text I suppose.

13 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

I also graduated with my Bachelor degree from a poly, but I didn't lose my SoH in the process....  My degree was awarded by the CNAA (apparently the same authority as you). I obtained a copy of my transcript about 4 years ago, long after my poly had closed down.

 

I have no doubt that your degree is genuine.  But if you cannot provide proof of that qualification, then your word is worthless to a recruiter.

 

The thing is I don't need to prove anything to a recruiter- I have a job.  I can understand that if I were changing jobs then things might be a bit different.  Similarly in response to ozmeldo- I don't need to show anything to the TCT.  I have a licence.  In fact I am on my second.  

10 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Sorry, UK if your educational system cannot provide records of the classes you attended at universities and especially if you cannot get a certified letter from your school, I wouldn't give you a waiver or much of anything else. What a totally inept system.

 

In your cases, I'd allow you to bring all the documentation you have and make your best case to TCT on individual basis, every waiver but no way for a license. My 2b.

 

You don't get to change the requirements because you can't meet the standards.

When I came there was no need to provide anything other than my degree certificate.   I haven't changed any requirements at all- the Department of Education has.

 

For what it's worth the process that in your wisdom you would be good enough to allow me is the one I have been going through- photos/ video of graduation is one of their suggestions.  Hardly very scientific.  And if I may reiterate, I do meet the standards, my problems arise from a new requirement for proving that.  I have no doubt that if I had been asked to provide such documents 15 years ago it would have been relatively straight forward. Luckily for the school were I have been successfully employed for the last decade and a half, and the hundreds of students who have graduated from my classes to go on to universities such as Mahidol in Thailand, and internationally recognised universities in the UK and the US, it isn't up to you.

 

Whilst the sudden changes made by the Department of Employment show that they like you can't see the wood for the trees, I have no doubt that in the long run they will see sense and I shall still be here long after you are gone.

[DogNo1]

In America,  the issue is not fake degrees but low-quality degrees.  My daughter got her BS in psychology without attending a single class. It was all distance learning done in front of her computer.  There were no televised classes.  It was all written work.   She was already working for a social service agency and her degree was actually accepted without question.   They like her work and want her to continue at the agency.   Unfortunately,  most people who get degrees from for-pay colleges can't get work.  I paid for my daughter's degree.  The number of degreed but unemployed people deep in debt is a national scandal.  Bernie Sanders talked about it a lot.   Too bad he didn't win. 

[chainarong]

All Thai Generals................................................

[Johnniey]

13 hours ago, optad said:

Private schools prefer directors to hold a phd. To attract MoE money they have to have them.

 

I worked for a boneless fellow who did not speak a word of English but had a phd from India. The guiling thing as their marriage was destructing, the wife decided to insure her future and asked me to prepare her paperwork to the do the same. Visas et al. Off she hopped to India for a two weeks. Returned with a doctorate. THey had a proxy in India do the papers in their names. Her daughter explicitly told what they doing. Private education in Thailand! lol. THey were sinister people too. 

It used to be thing for Thais to get them from universities in Hawaii. Can you believe the USA selling fake degrees?

 

 

[maewang99]

ummm..... isn't this on top of another 'little' issue?

of whether an 'actual' degree is anything more than an indication of a lot of time spent sitting in a chair and where that may have occurred?

or as we say in "the west".... if someone ever stops being a student... they never were.

 
 

Edited December 13, 2016 by maewang99

[KhonKaenKowboy]

The last person who told me they went to Duke; didn't know what interstate highway goes through Durham.  Unfortunately, this whole bogus credential thing has spread to general expat culture.  I know a little bit about almost every uni in the US.  Partly from betting on sports, and partly from being. very well traveled in the US.  You can fool some of the people some of the time.....disgraceful.  Another red flag is that they have zero experience teaching or working with kids in the US, where those degrees can mean more money, even to drive the bus, and they are often verified.

[simon43]

The thing is I don't need to prove anything to a recruiter- I have a job.

 

Yes, but as I have found out to my cost (in a different industry sector), things never stay constant.

 

A new principal could come in and require all existing teachers or employees to prove that they have a valid degree.

 

You could lose your job and need to apply to a new employer.  Or perhaps you see a great new job opportunity.  How can you apply if you cannot prove your degree credentials?

 

My advice would be that even if you feel you do not need to prove those credentials right now, you should take steps to obtain such proof - I think you mentioned that this might now be possible in the specific case of your poly.  

 

Better you get that proof and 'bank it' away for such an unforeseen situation as the above.

[ozmeldo]

10 hours ago, chrisinth said:

 

As a matter of interest, were any of these institutions British, or in the UK?

 

That is such an ironic response, that you could disrespect, out of hand, likely qualified personnel because they haven't got a transcript which wasn't issued at the time of their qualification. Because you haven't come across it?

 

That above comment is particularly relevant when you are talking about proper native English speakers..................... 

 

Oh the humanity!

 

Whose stating if you don't have a degree you are not qualified to carry out the duties of the position?

 

What I am stating is apparently your old, sage university can't generate a set of transcripts. Unfortunately, transcripts are a requirement for a TCT waiver. So on this basis alone, you lose. Because transcripts are as much the deal as a diploma or all those accumulated years of genius stored in your sweet but overripe melon. But hey, thanks for playing.

 

It's really hilarious. You have the - who needs a degree, I can do the job brigade and the all my paper is crap, but I demand the same treatment as if I had transcripts, letter of certification and yes some people even say they can't get hold of a duplicate diploma.

 

The addl chuckle here is not only who could ever lose their diploma!? But why would you ever come out here even with a thought in your mind about teaching - without it?

 

Cry me a river. Good, solid schools don't close. You need not wrestle a cyclops for your education documentation. To me just reinforces it's a sketchy school anyway. Poor judgement.

[ozmeldo]

1 hour ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

The last person who told me they went to Duke; didn't know what interstate highway goes through Durham.  Unfortunately, this whole bogus credential thing has spread to general expat culture.  I know a little bit about almost every uni in the US.  Partly from betting on sports, and partly from being. very well traveled in the US.  You can fool some of the people some of the time.....disgraceful.  Another red flag is that they have zero experience teaching or working with kids in the US, where those degrees can mean more money, even to drive the bus, and they are often verified.

 

My cousin graduated from Duke. It's a damn good school. No idea what a Duke grad would be doing out here but the same has been asked of me. My reply is, semi retired and waiting on 60.

[chrisinth]

6 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

 

Oh the humanity!

 

Whose stating if you don't have a degree you are not qualified to carry out the duties of the position?

 

What I am stating is apparently your old, sage university can't generate a set of transcripts. Unfortunately, transcripts are a requirement for a TCT waiver. So on this basis alone, you lose. Because transcripts are as much the deal as a diploma or all those accumulated years of genius stored in your sweet but overripe melon. But hey, thanks for playing.

 

It's really hilarious. You have the - who needs a degree, I can do the job brigade and the all my paper is crap, but I demand the same treatment as if I had transcripts, letter of certification and yes some people even say they can't get hold of a duplicate diploma.

 

The addl chuckle here is not only who could ever lose their diploma!? But why would you ever come out here even with a thought in your mind about teaching - without it?

 

Cry me a river. Good, solid schools don't close. You need not wrestle a cyclops for your education documentation. To me just reinforces it's a sketchy school anyway. Poor judgement.

 

Just to clear the records, I am not, or ever have been a teacher. My comments were from an outsider's viewpoint on your opinions, especially on postscripts.

 

As for your comment (and chuckle) about who could ever lose their diploma? I lost all my certificates (hard earned certificates I might add) when HMS Sheffield was sunk under my feet in the South Atlantic, so it is extremely possible for this to happen.

 

I really have no horse in the race as I never attended a university or used fake documents to attain employment. Yet, have been employed all my adult life.

 

There are still some of us left, selfish I suppose, depriving university graduates a job.........................

[maewang99]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 2:13 PM, elliss said:

Can  we assume  most of the  farlangs   with degrees , fake or not teach  English .

   What is more important, is that the teacher is from a Country where English is the spoken language.  imo

 

the skill level of most Thai students with their spoken English....

ain't nowhere near any kind of a skill level... such
that whether their "teacher" is an English L1 (such as most farlang)....

 

or English L2 foreigner (like most Asians i.e. Filipino)....

or English L3 (like most non Bangkok Thai)....

is of any consequence at all.   any at all.

a Thai ajarn is just as good given what their level is. farlang impresses mom and dad... to get more tea money... and the farlang teachers are cheap... i.e. temporary social security cover instead of lifetime family civil service health cover.. no pension and not CS wannabees.

the need for "native speakers" is 80 to 90% nonsense at this time in Thailand.  but another problems is how they assign which CS ajarn to which subjects as well... I know many excellent English speaking CS ajarn that teach a subject other than English when in the same school the actual English teachers don't even like English and can't speak it very well.   

Edited December 13, 2016 by maewang99

[Wilsonandson]

You want names? Have you ever heard of defamation laws?
How about a "do you know anyone using drugs, feel free to comment" thread.
You're off your head, seriously.


Sent from my twisted mind using Thaivisa Connect

Yes many people liked this post and I have to say I also don't understand why this thread is necessary. This is not in the Thai news. Asking people to rat on their friends or people they know is not the sort of thing I condone either. What is the point of this survey is Thaivisa going to give our email addresses to the Ministry of Education? I like to discuss the news not rat on my expat friends. My opinion.

[Slip]

38 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

 

Oh the humanity!

 

Whose stating if you don't have a degree you are not qualified to carry out the duties of the position?

 

What I am stating is apparently your old, sage university can't generate a set of transcripts. Unfortunately, transcripts are a requirement for a TCT waiver. So on this basis alone, you lose. Because transcripts are as much the deal as a diploma or all those accumulated years of genius stored in your sweet but overripe melon. But hey, thanks for playing.

 

It's really hilarious. You have the - who needs a degree, I can do the job brigade and the all my paper is crap, but I demand the same treatment as if I had transcripts, letter of certification and yes some people even say they can't get hold of a duplicate diploma.

 

The addl chuckle here is not only who could ever lose their diploma!? But why would you ever come out here even with a thought in your mind about teaching - without it?

 

Cry me a river. Good, solid schools don't close. You need not wrestle a cyclops for your education documentation. To me just reinforces it's a sketchy school anyway. Poor judgement.

 

Oh dear.  Wrong again.  Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?  Once again in case you missed it- I don't have transcripts, yet I DO have a teaching licence from the TCT never mind a waiver. So on this basis you are 100% wrong. What is the status of your licence?  

 

Which bit can't you get your head around when people say that your pontificating about about transcripts 'being part of the deal' is simply not true about some people's experience?  I 100% can't get hold of a duplicate diploma because the body that issued it is now defunct.  If you care to practise your reading skills, please feel free to review this thread for the reasons why- they are there along with the proof.

 

As for your addled (addl?) chuckle, apart from the fact that could be down to your rapidly advancing years, I can't comment on people losing their diploma or perhaps it being destroyed, but I know that my passport was screwed in the Indian Ocean Tsunami.  If I had been travelling with my certificate, (seeking work perhaps,) it would have gone the same way.  A similar situation to that described by Chrisinth- but of course because it has never happened to you personally, you are simply incapable of even considering it.

 

You demonstrate zero understanding of anything other than your own narrow experience.  I don't necessarily agree with the points made by others here such as Smotherb and Simon, although of course I can to a certain extent see their arguments. You on the other hand come across as a narrow minded, clueless troll with nothing whatsoever to add to the conversation.I have learnt from them that my own experience is not one hundred percent the norm even for my own country.   Did your university (if you even have a degree) give you an honours class? No? really?  Then obviously your degree is worthless by your own argument.

 

For the final time of bothering with your pig headed idiocy:  The bureaucracy of Thailand has changed the rules half way through my career, that is all.

 

Oh and by the way- my university didn't close.  As much as this problem arising 15 years later shows my poor judgement in your opinion, It merged with another and then changed its legal identity.  As such (so they said) it was no longer authorised to provide the documentation I needed.

 

You should get over yourself old man- A closed mind does not a good educator make.  Although it makes for a good TV troll by all accounts.

 

Good day Sir.

[Slip]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Yes, but as I have found out to my cost (in a different industry sector), things never stay constant.

 

A new principal could come in and require all existing teachers or employees to prove that they have a valid degree.

 

You could lose your job and need to apply to a new employer.  Or perhaps you see a great new job opportunity.  How can you apply if you cannot prove your degree credentials?

 

My advice would be that even if you feel you do not need to prove those credentials right now, you should take steps to obtain such proof - I think you mentioned that this might now be possible in the specific case of your poly.  

 

Better you get that proof and 'bank it' away for such an unforeseen situation as the above.

Yes Simon, and thanks- it is in hand as we speak.  I acted on it months ago but was hitting dead ends all round.  As I mentioned earlier things seem to have changed, not least in terms of the effort that the Dept of Education is willing to go to above and beyond their earlier approach of 'prove it'.  it seems like there is an office being set up which will go through the avenues on behalf of teachers here as far as I can gather.

 

Happily they seem to be more capable of lateral/ forward thinking than some of the narrow-minded old farts posting so frequently in this thread.

[tukkytuktuk]

 

[simon43]

Yes Simon, and thanks- it is in hand as we speak.

 

Good for you.  I am in the same boat, in that I could apply for QTS status, but have to provide proof of my O level in English which I acquired about 40 years ago.  It is possible to obtain such proof, but the process is arduous and will take months.

 

Nevertheless, I'm going to try to get that proof.

 

If not, I just have to resit the O level :)

[Slip]

10 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

Good for you.  I am in the same boat, in that I could apply for QTS status, but have to provide proof of my O level in English which I acquired about 40 years ago.  It is possible to obtain such proof, but the process is arduous and will take months.

 

Nevertheless, I'm going to try to get that proof.

 

If not, I just have to resit the O level :)

That must be tricky now.  I reckon I would be OK as I sat Oxford/ Cambridge board and I presume their records go back for centuries, but would still not relish the task.

 

Amusingly someone else that I know that is having the same problem as me has a PGCE, though not QTS status.  They are refusing his paperwork also.

 

Good luck with your efforts.

[ozmeldo]

So, documents lost when a boat sank and another scenario that did not happen, documents lost in a tsunami.

 

What are these odds and what are the odds that the documents would be irreplaceable? Those are some damn slim odds indeed gentlemen.

 

I'm done here.

[JAG]

On 12/12/2016 at 1:33 PM, simon43 said:

 

and 

 

I'm 57 years old.

 

My MSc in Microwave Engineering from University College London was completed in 1986 and a transcript document was provided with the degree certificate.

 

My First Class Honours BSc in Electronics & Communications Engineering was completed in 1985 and a transcript document was provided with the degree certificate.

 

Are you sure you guys graduated from a real university? :)

 

Edit: The CNAA no longer exists, but there is a documented procedure to obtain a transcript document from the authority that now holds the CNAA records.

 

My Bachelor degree university no longer exists, but I can still get a copy of my degree and transcript if I wish.

 

The fact that the university that awarded your degree no longer exists is not a valid excuse for not providing a transcript or degree certificate.  Your graduation records will still be held by another authority - they are not 'binned'.

 

 

 

The University of the West of England still exists, and is quite a well regarded UK University. They are unable to provide transcripts for students who graduated before 2000. I graduated in 1996.

 

I have a letter from UWE, dated May 2016, confirming this. If you don't believe me, pm me and I will supply you with a copy.

 

There again, you will probably claim that it is a fake!

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by JAG