Court rejects Dhammakaya’s plea for dismissal of search warrant

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, kamahele said:

I've been reading about this scandal ridden temple for years now. The first investigations were done by the Sangha Supreme Council, which I believe can be considered an arm of the government.  The first charges had to do with their fundraising and how it did not fit with Buddhist tradition of fundraising. This I would consider government involvement in religion, however, there have been many charges of wrong doing since then of course including accepting stolen money, accepting improper gifts, transfer of temple land to the abbot and inciting rebellion. No one has actually been brought to trial yet. Not quite sure why the government keeps announcing their plans to arrest the abbot and allowing his followers to block their attempts.

Why there is nothing being done is easy to explain. This sect have many influentual and rich people connected to them as disciples, wich means that there are much fear of what is going to happen is they make the wrong move. As usual fear over people with money rules. The two things it regards has still nothing to do with religion. It´s has to do with that powerful people with much money, is hiding behind their religion and sect. In all other aspects it´s just about encroachment and money laundering.

[Wilsonandson]

Perhaps you are not aware that the manager of a credit union (a co-operative lending and saving society) apparently stole many millions (or was it billions) of baht of peoples savings and handed it over over to the (now) fugitive leader of this cult.  Even though the original thief (boss  of the credit union) is now in jail for the theft, the abbot monk and the cult deny that the money is "receipt of stolen property" and refuse to give the money back to the credit union where it was on deposit by its rightful owners.   That is the way I understand it and that makes it pretty cut and dried for me.  They are NOT "policing religion"  as you suggest but are simply trying to recover money stolen in a crime;  money that was given to the temple and should never have been stolen, given or accepted. 

Handed it over? It was donated to the temple.
Refuse to give it back?
Since the scandal broke, the temple’s followers have returned Bt704 million to the cooperative and issued advance cheques for Bt350 million.

“But that’s based on evidence that the temple’s network received about Bt1.05 billion from the cooperative,” Prakit Pilangkasa, chair of the cooperative’s committee on debt management, said recently. “However, according to the DSI investigation, the temple’s network received Bt1.45 billion.”

They are NOT "policing religion".
Oh aren't they. You should read this article from the Nation.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/aec/30289033

[KOZMO]

19 hours ago, kamahele said:

I'm split on this topic. A part of me wants to see this guy get his day in court to either prove his innocence or the government prove his guilt while a part of me thinks, why is the government involved in policing religion in the first place?! Fools in my home country give their heard earned money to all kinds of religious institutions and religious leaders and it is perfectly legal as long as the correct tax documents have been filed.....

 

But your Priest does not have his Mercedes, BMW, Jet Plane, Helicopter and a Million Dollars does he?????   

[freebyrd]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

For once i am lost for words.

 

Really Colin?

[Get Real]

1 hour ago, Wilsonandson said:

Handed it over? It was donated to the temple.
Refuse to give it back?
Since the scandal broke, the temple’s followers have returned Bt704 million to the cooperative and issued advance cheques for Bt350 million.

“But that’s based on evidence that the temple’s network received about Bt1.05 billion from the cooperative,” Prakit Pilangkasa, chair of the cooperative’s committee on debt management, said recently. “However, according to the DSI investigation, the temple’s network received Bt1.45 billion.”

They are NOT "policing religion".
Oh aren't they. You should read this article from the Nation.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/aec/30289033
 

Nja, they are still not policing religion. Many of the people in the sect try to use it in this case, but that is used from the followers in an atempt to hide behind their belief. What is also not at all important is that you try to say that people are giving back money. There is a law to follow. That means that the abbot stands acused for suspected money laundry. The case does not disappear just because the money comes back. Also same with the land. The breaking of the law has already been made. If the land is returned there is still going to be at price to pay for breaking the law.

[scorecard]

8 hours ago, kamahele said:

I'm split on this topic. A part of me wants to see this guy get his day in court to either prove his innocence or the government prove his guilt while a part of me thinks, why is the government involved in policing religion in the first place?! Fools in my home country give their heard earned money to all kinds of religious institutions and religious leaders and it is perfectly legal as long as the correct tax documents have been filed.....

 

"... why is the government involved in policing religion in the first place?! Fools in my home country give their heard earned money to all kinds of religious institutions and religious leaders and it is perfectly legal as long as the correct tax documents have been filed..... "

 

Is this really the point?

 

Freely giving personal donations (your own money and nothing more) to a religious organization is clearly your own decision (but possibly foolish).

 

Is the current case here the same? Absolutely NO.  

 

And the reasons are obvious and have been discussion here a hundred times - the funds donated to the temple were stolen (sic stolen), they are personal deposits made into personal savings accounts in a community credit union. Deposited on the belief that they would get their personal savings back on request plus interest.

 

In reality no doubt there would have been some big depositors into this coop. cc and also lots of low income even poor folks with small deposits hoping to put a little aside for the future. Their savings were stolen. They have an absolute  right to expect the rtp etc., investigate and prosecute the thieves and the receivers of their stolen money.

 

The people / organization that received this stolen money is a religious organization with no morals, and many members of this rich religious organization are well educated people who should know better.

 

I just can't see how this can be described as "...why is the government involved in policing religion in the first place?!" 

[cncltd1973]

11 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Perhaps you are not aware that the manager of a credit union (a co-operative lending and saving society) apparently stole many millions (or was it billions) of baht of peoples savings and handed it over over to the (now) fugitive leader of this cult.  Even though the original thief (boss  of the credit union) is now in jail for the theft, the abbot monk and the cult deny that the money is "receipt of stolen property" and refuse to give the money back to the credit union where it was on deposit by its rightful owners.   That is the way I understand it and that makes it pretty cut and dried for me.  They are NOT "policing religion"  as you suggest but are simply trying to recover money stolen in a crime;  money that was given to the temple and should never have been stolen, given or accepted. 

I'm guessing the banks aren't required to insure deposits, so the account holders are left with this problem?

[cncltd1973]

7 hours ago, kamahele said:

I've been reading about this scandal ridden temple for years now. The first investigations were done by the Sangha Supreme Council, which I believe can be considered an arm of the government.  The first charges had to do with their fundraising and how it did not fit with Buddhist tradition of fundraising. This I would consider government involvement in religion, however, there have been many charges of wrong doing since then of course including accepting stolen money, accepting improper gifts, transfer of temple land to the abbot and inciting rebellion. No one has actually been brought to trial yet. Not quite sure why the government keeps announcing their plans to arrest the abbot and allowing his followers to block their attempts.

 

"The warrant was meant to enable police and DSI officials to search the temple during December 13-16. "

 

The gov announcing WHEN they plan to execute the search warrant! Makes it convenient for the monk to make travel arrangements to be anywhere else from Dec 13-16.

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by cncltd1973

[Stargeezr]

Corruption.  It  exists  around  the  world,  so  Thailand  is  not  the  only  country  affected

by  this beast.  The Abbott  and others,  sound  like  they  are  corrupt as  well, but  the

difference, is  that  hey  have  lots  of  blind  and  deaf  followers.  Remember  Jimmy Jones

and Jones Town!

[The Deerhunter]

16 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Handed it over? It was donated to the temple.
Refuse to give it back?
Since the scandal broke, the temple’s followers have returned Bt704 million to the cooperative and issued advance cheques for Bt350 million.

“But that’s based on evidence that the temple’s network received about Bt1.05 billion from the cooperative,” Prakit Pilangkasa, chair of the cooperative’s committee on debt management, said recently. “However, according to the DSI investigation, the temple’s network received Bt1.45 billion.”

They are NOT "policing religion".
Oh aren't they. You should read this article from the Nation.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/aec/30289033
 

Still about 400 million baht outstanding then.  And that which was given back you say, it was given by supporters??   Is that different from being given back by the temple itself?

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

I'm guessing the banks aren't required to insure deposits, so the account holders are left with this problem?

 

 

Regardless of that point, it's still theft and receipt of stolen property.

[sambum]

On 12/14/2016 at 0:14 PM, The Deerhunter said:

Perhaps you are not aware that the manager of a credit union (a co-operative lending and saving society) apparently stole many millions (or was it billions) of baht of peoples savings and handed it over over to the (now) fugitive leader of this cult.  Even though the original thief (boss  of the credit union) is now in jail for the theft, the abbot monk and the cult deny that the money is "receipt of stolen property" and refuse to give the money back to the credit union where it was on deposit by its rightful owners.   That is the way I understand it and that makes it pretty cut and dried for me.  They are NOT "policing religion"  as you suggest but are simply trying to recover money stolen in a crime;  money that was given to the temple and should never have been stolen, given or accepted. 

I (and probably countless other TV readers) was unaware of this. Thank you for making us aware of the facts. 

[scorecard]

4 minutes ago, sambum said:

I (and probably countless other TV readers) was unaware of this. Thank you for making us aware of the facts. 

 

 

For more background knowledge on the space ship monk, who already has a longer term 'history' search his name on Wiki...., it's not the first time he's been involved in 'complex and money oriented' matters. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by scorecard

[sambum]

5 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

For more background knowledge on the space ship monk, who already has a longer term 'history' search his name on Wiki...., it's not the first time he's been involved in 'complex and money oriented' matters. 

Yup - smells fishy!

[scorecard]

On 12/14/2016 at 2:03 PM, kannot said:

you look at that MASSIVE shiny temple and think "what an effin waste  of  money" all the  gullible  people never  cease to amaze  me,  follow  that up with the top monks  creaming off millions, the flock must have "sucker" written all over their merit  making faces.

They could've  built themselves  nice hospital with that.

 

 

Many of them have donated multi-millions on the promise that they will go to heaven, be reborn: wealthy, clever, handsome / beautiful, etc.

 

A wealthy Thai family near my house in Chiang Mai all go to the space ship temple regularly to keep up their meditations etc.

Edited December 15, 2016 by scorecard

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, sambum said:

I (and probably countless other TV readers) was unaware of this. Thank you for making us aware of the facts. 

 

I too am not aware that he refused to pay back the embezzled money back to the credit union. This contrary to well documented information (even in wiki) that when it was "revealed that the donation was linked to the scandal, Dhammakaya followers raised the equivalent of the funds to return to the victim credit union, which then dropped the charges". Somewhere in all this mess, the fact was distorted.

[ldiablo72]

Those has gotten boring about 3 months ago and just isn't worth following anymore. Nothing will ever happen. They will never go in and he will never come out.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ldiablo72 said:

Those has gotten boring about 3 months ago and just isn't worth following anymore. Nothing will ever happen. They will never go in and he will never come out.

 

Maybe he will commit suicide if the cops get very close?

 

Maybe a cult mass suicide? 

[The Deerhunter]

15 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

 

Many of them have donated multi-millions on the promise that they will go to heaven, be reborn: wealthy, clever, handsome / beautiful, etc.

 

A wealthy Thai family near my house in Chiang Mai all go to the space ship temple regularly to keep up their meditations etc.

Ah!  The perennial promise surviving your physical death, by almost all religions, differing in detail only from the promise of an everlasting life in heaven, for adherents of the multitude of warring sects of the Abrahamic trilogy????? of religions; (Judaism, Christianity and the youngest of the three, Islam) sitting - depending on interpretation - at the right hand of God.   "In my fathers house there are many many many mansions."  Yes, all segregated by high walls so that each group can think they are up there on their own."  

Edited December 16, 2016 by The Deerhunter
correction

[akampa]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:19 AM, kamahele said:

I'm split on this topic. A part of me wants to see this guy get his day in court to either prove his innocence or the government prove his guilt while a part of me thinks, why is the government involved in policing religion in the first place?! Fools in my home country give their heard earned money to all kinds of religious institutions and religious leaders and it is perfectly legal as long as the correct tax documents have been filed.....

because we live in Thailand not the U.S.A  and don`t be so judgmental if they want to give it`s there choice whether for good  or bad .

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, The Deerhunter said:

Still about 400 million baht outstanding then.  And that which was given back you say, it was given by supporters??   Is that different from being given back by the temple itself?

 

Interesting point. I wonder just how many  bank books they have.

 

Or perhaps they don't trust banks and co-operative credit unions?  That would be quite an irony.

 

In fact it would be interesting to know exactly where their wealth is being held and you controls all that wealth.

[The Deerhunter]

12 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Interesting point. I wonder just how many  bank books they have.

 

Or perhaps they don't trust banks and co-operative credit unions?  That would be quite an irony.

 

In fact it would be interesting to know exactly where their wealth is being held and you controls all that wealth.

I'll bet I know the answer to the second part and I would also bet that it didn't change last week either just because he is now only the honorary Abbot of the cult, sorry temple.