School system’s failure to teach logical thinking linked to low PISA scores

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, KIWIBATCH said:

Well there is an easy fix to this problem for the Thai Education Deot...form another committee...with sub committees..

...announce another "review"....talk about it ad infinitum....do nothing...then add the review to the list of previous reviews....add the committee and sub committees to the list of previous xcommittees....then sit back and do absollutely mothing....review completed.

They have been doing this for 30 years, wont change.

[TPI]

8 hours ago, thhMan said:

My 2 girls come back more stupid after a day at school.

 

I have slowly watched my girls 7 and 12 starting to lose their identity and accept "going with the flow"

 

I have given them the tools to improve themselves and even went so far as banning Thai TV, so they dont get the bad influences.
They have Netflix and the Internet to get their information, which helps a little, but does not have the same influences they get at school, which at school is superior in exemplifying stupidity and incompetence as the norm

 

My 12 year old has gone from wanting to be an Astronaut to now wanting to be a cook, as something at school has suddenly stolen her goals for something easier to achieve... I am guessing its peer pressure, from her friends who have low IQ parents and teachers who teach English, but are doing such a poor job at it, that my 12 year old cant read or write English and in fact, which she does know, is starting to be forgotten.

 

We have books for most ages in English, sent by my mom (in Australia), that are good reads and not just educational... But, as my kids can barely read English, they choose the Thai books....

 

Its getting to the point that I think its better to keep my kids at home than go to school and get more stupid... My wife (Thai), is starting to acknowledge what I have been saying about the education, as my girls are becoming less logical in their thinking as weeks roll on.....

They never ask, Why, How or When and are now adopting the "agree and pretend to know" attitude, which I dont let them get away with as its become more predominant (hence my wife realizing whats going on) and I then ask my girls why they dont just say "they dont know" and ask me the answer

 

If there is a thing as "reverse education", then that is what I am starting to believe schools here are about... Long gone are those inquisitive stares from my kids and now slowly being replaced by the same BLANK LOOKS, I see when at malls, take away shops, retail stores etc....

 

I have three Thai nieces in Oz, one is doing a cooking/chef course the other two are in High School. The one doing the course has a degree in hotel management and can't get a job in Oz (degree not good enough), the youngest of the girls in High School had to revert a year, that is do year 10 again and the eldest had to revert two years as her M6 wasn't good enough to get into an Australian Uni! Their astonishment when they speak with their school friends in Thailand regarding their friends inability to draw conclusions in conversation was a surprise! I wasn't aware of the huge gap in reasoning skills until it took place in front of me!

[oldcarguy]

I think  most of us in the west grew up with the "what if" question always in out brain....

 

OK , that might not always be a good thing , like what if I jump my bike off the roof , but most of the time your logic tells you its a bad idea ,

 

But even in the west being stupid gets you a TV show , Blond and stupid a long lasting show :)

 

I also think games like chess help you do the "what if" but plan a few more moves ahead of the other guy.....

 

I am so glad I grew up interested in many things , knew where the library was and did not have video games ( not invented yet)

[DavisH]

13 hours ago, thhMan said:

My 2 girls come back more stupid after a day at school.

 

I have slowly watched my girls 7 and 12 starting to lose their identity and accept "going with the flow"

 

I have given them the tools to improve themselves and even went so far as banning Thai TV, so they dont get the bad influences.
They have Netflix and the Internet to get their information, which helps a little, but does not have the same influences they get at school, which at school is superior in exemplifying stupidity and incompetence as the norm

 

My 12 year old has gone from wanting to be an Astronaut to now wanting to be a cook, as something at school has suddenly stolen her goals for something easier to achieve... I am guessing its peer pressure, from her friends who have low IQ parents and teachers who teach English, but are doing such a poor job at it, that my 12 year old cant read or write English and in fact, which she does know, is starting to be forgotten.

 

We have books for most ages in English, sent by my mom (in Australia), that are good reads and not just educational... But, as my kids can barely read English, they choose the Thai books....

 

Its getting to the point that I think its better to keep my kids at home than go to school and get more stupid... My wife (Thai), is starting to acknowledge what I have been saying about the education, as my girls are becoming less logical in their thinking as weeks roll on.....

They never ask, Why, How or When and are now adopting the "agree and pretend to know" attitude, which I dont let them get away with as its become more predominant (hence my wife realizing whats going on) and I then ask my girls why they dont just say "they dont know" and ask me the answer

 

If there is a thing as "reverse education", then that is what I am starting to believe schools here are about... Long gone are those inquisitive stares from my kids and now slowly being replaced by the same BLANK LOOKS, I see when at malls, take away shops, retail stores etc....

 

I assume there are in a government school....have they been learning english from birth by you? Most P1 kids in my english program can speak english quite well (especially those who have been learning english in kindy). Most kids don't learn english in public schools here (despite having classes) and learn little of other subjects (I mean real understanding). Thai teachers simply don't have the mindset for producing students who can think for themselves and ask questions. They are better off with foreign teachers whenever possible. 

[cardinalblue]

I am sorry but the volume of people who pass on solid/double lines, tail-gating, speeding in crowded road conditions, weaving in and out of traffic and running red lights are not intelligent people...

 

As to learning, students at an early age are not taught how to compete nor held accountable for their actions. Huge negative ramifications just to function as responsible inquisitive adults or lack there of....no desire no motivation no continual self improvement and no discipline leads to a society with incredibly low standards individually and collectively...

Edited December 14, 2016 by cardinalblue

[futsukayoi]

 

While I think critical thinking is extremely important I am not convinced it has a major impact on PISA scores. The PISA questions I have seen seem to test knowledge rather than critical thinking.  In addition the countries with the highest PISA scores are hardly those noted for critical thinking (e.g. Japan, Korea and Singapore).

 

Also Thailand is not uniformly as bad as the average scores show.  As the following link shows Bangkok and some schools in Chiang Mai get much better scores and are mediocre.  The rest of the country scores significantly worse than the average score and is really dire.

 

http://isaanrecord.com/2014/02/21/pisa-thailand-regional-breakdown-shows-inequalities-between-bangkok-and-upper-north-with-the-rest-of-thailand/

 

Basically this shows Thais can do better than the average.  I suspect there are many factors responsible for this gulf in education and unfortunately many are probably not easy to duplicate.  The high scoring regions get much more resources and probably the best teachers.  They also probably have more better educated parents who will push their kids and open up children's eyes to the opportunities education can bring. 

 

I am sure there are many on here with much more first hand experience of what the differences in these regions are and how possible it would be for the rest of the country to move closer to Bangkok and Chiang Mai scores.

 

 

[thhMan]

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

I assume there are in a government school....have they been learning english from birth by you? Most P1 kids in my english program can speak english quite well (especially those who have been learning english in kindy). Most kids don't learn english in public schools here (despite having classes) and learn little of other subjects (I mean real understanding). Thai teachers simply don't have the mindset for producing students who can think for themselves and ask questions. They are better off with foreign teachers whenever possible. 

Actually no... They are in a semi private school.

The worst thing is that my eldest is top of her class in just about every subject and sometimes has to help the teacher on the computer (Dad is a techie)

I discussed the issue again with my missus yesterday and was informed that during English, the teacher asks the class for a volunteer to write out a word... Having no hands up, my daughter is always asked to volunteer

Knowing what she can and cant do, I said to the missus, that its great she is top of her class, but if the class is so poorly educated, then being at the top is not really that much of an achievement.

So yesterday I gave my 12 year old my laptop and gave her a printer of her own... I said its for her to study whatever she wants and also help her with her homework, with the condition that she does it in English, so she learns how to spell (Lately she is asking me how to spell a lot of very basic words, but its a start)

 

I raise my 2 as close to the western style as I can... They are not "given" things, but have to earn them, which helps them to think (they havent earned much as of late)
I am also aware of culture and I see a lot of influences coming from Thai TV, which I personally believe is the root of the problems and always vocal about that issue and is why Thai TV is banned at home, which also removes the stupidity of the shows and the lack of morality, respect for police and all the other bad influences.

 

My eldest also has to do "scout" stuff and I recently asked her if she knows how to make a fire or setup camp, in which I was presented with a blank look, so I wonder what they actually teach in scouts!

 

My 2 girls are fragile and I love them to bits, so I do tread very carefully when I ask them things that go on in school, one of which is the boys are very rowdy and makes listening to the teachers difficult at times
BTW, the eldest is not mine from Birth as her real Dad left when the wife was 3 months pregnant.... So only knows me as her Dad....

 

[thhMan]

55 minutes ago, futsukayoi said:

 

While I think critical thinking is extremely important I am not convinced it has a major impact on PISA scores. The PISA questions I have seen seem to test knowledge rather than critical thinking.  In addition the countries with the highest PISA scores are hardly those noted for critical thinking (e.g. Japan, Korea and Singapore).

 

Also Thailand is not uniformly as bad as the average scores show.  As the following link shows Bangkok and some schools in Chiang Mai get much better scores and are mediocre.  The rest of the country scores significantly worse than the average score and is really dire.

 

http://isaanrecord.com/2014/02/21/pisa-thailand-regional-breakdown-shows-inequalities-between-bangkok-and-upper-north-with-the-rest-of-thailand/

 

Basically this shows Thais can do better than the average.  I suspect there are many factors responsible for this gulf in education and unfortunately many are probably not easy to duplicate.  The high scoring regions get much more resources and probably the best teachers.  They also probably have more better educated parents who will push their kids and open up children's eyes to the opportunities education can bring. 

 

I am sure there are many on here with much more first hand experience of what the differences in these regions are and how possible it would be for the rest of the country to move closer to Bangkok and Chiang Mai scores.

 

 

Chiang Mai is certainly much better for education, as we lived there just over a year and the kids where doing great.

In Pattaya, its different and I have noticed that the influences to education are more of a social thing, extending to the police and teachers...

However, the smog was too much to handle and the family decided to go back to Pattaya and be closer to the beach and western culture as Chiang Mai is full of Chinese tourists, sneezing, coughing, pissing and spitting, that I just got sick every time we went to a shopping mall!

[hdkane]

Thais are not especially bright people...with an average IQ of 90, .low scores would be expected...and a strong dysgenic effect occuring, in which smarter women are choosing not to  have children with Thai men, the future is not particularly bright for the society..

[BruceMangosteen]

All these long replies! What the heck? Don't "you people" realize the Thai people don't care what you think about it all? One member mentioned "common sense" and a lack thereof. It isn't a lack of common sense. The Thai people certainly have that. It's a simple fact they don't care. Don't care about education, about driving safely, about nutrition, about corruption, about any and all of it. They don't care. They know, but don't care. God bless you and them. O O

[onlycw]

I would agree with that lecturer. It's been an uphill struggle getting students to speak at all. Speaking their mind, play leaving a message (my name is X, my # is 08x xxx xxxx and I'm calling to say ...)

 

Why the fear?!? 

 

Then there are those who cannot read. Motivated M2 girls in rural Isaan. On time, alert in class. But they cannot read English and when I proposed to do something about it, the HoD couldn't be arsed to allocate a free trainee from a university or a TA. *** All these school PCs  n o t  running, because some corrupt SOB opted for 256 MB RAM. Hello!! => I spent thousands of THB to buy RAM on Ebay. But then the computer teacher replaced my own new Crucial RAM with something else like 2 x 1 GB. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Recently, I spoke with a computer guy about installing a SSD and 16 GB RAM. I provided it all, wrote a note and - he re-installed the OS on a perfectly running system. <deleted>?!? 

 

My tertiary institution has a 10 M THB smart classroom. Don't get me started on that. Hey, how about authorizing 2,000 THB for loudspeakers in my classroom?!?

 

There is a drive to cut costs. NES have been replaced by non NES from a neighboring country and others with fake degrees and shockingly bad English. While the best and brightest young teachers are stuck and won't get even 50% of the guy from Uganda who is proud of his 540 TOEIC score and cannot pronounce (...) 

 

Cui bono? Can the Junta please clean up Thai education and remove greed as source for such issues?!

[greenchair]

Well , when you put 40 kids in a class with no assistant. 

When you make the teacher spend 6 hours a day teaching, with no breaks and having to serve lunch as well. 

When you force the teachers to work all through the holidays, so that they cannot recuperate from the school term. 

When you force the kids to learn too many subjects so there is not enough time for science, English and math. 

When you force the kids to study all through holidays to the point of exhaustion. 

When you put kids to bed at 11 o'clock at night and expect them keep up with such a rigorous schedule. My child goes to a Thai school. there are 25 kids in class with 2 teachers. All the teachers break in the holidays, they are bright eyed and happy. After flag ceremony, the teachers play with kids half an hour. All the children look different and do not have the dazed look. The contrast to normal thai schools is like black and white. 

[futsukayoi]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

Well , when you put 40 kids in a class with no assistant. 

When you make the teacher spend 6 hours a day teaching, with no breaks and having to serve lunch as well. 

When you force the teachers to work all through the holidays, so that they cannot recuperate from the school term. 

When you force the kids to learn too many subjects so there is not enough time for science, English and math. 

When you force the kids to study all through holidays to the point of exhaustion. 

When you put kids to bed at 11 o'clock at night and expect them keep up with such a rigorous schedule. My child goes to a Thai school. there are 25 kids in class with 2 teachers. All the teachers break in the holidays, they are bright eyed and happy. After flag ceremony, the teachers play with kids half an hour. All the children look different and do not have the dazed look. The contrast to normal thai schools is like black and white. 

 

"When you make the teacher spend 6 hours a day teaching, with no breaks and having to serve lunch as well. 

When you force the teachers to work all through the holidays, so that they cannot recuperate from the school term. "

 

So teachers are expected to work nearly as hard as most other jobs.  That hardly seems unreasonable.

[DavisH]

On 12/16/2016 at 5:40 AM, hdkane said:

Thais are not especially bright people...with an average IQ of 90, .low scores would be expected...and a strong dysgenic effect occuring, in which smarter women are choosing not to  have children with Thai men, the future is not particularly bright for the society..

That's probably due to a lack of proper nutrition among the majority of the population from a young age. I have a least a dozen kids in my M3 class that are way better than I was at the same age. Certainly, I teach maths at a much higher level than I learned at that grade level. The problem is that there is no incentive to better - the poor will remain poor as they have poor nutrition, come from more dysfunctional families and have less money to pay for extra classes (to make up for the poor education they get in rural schools). PISA scores only improve in countries than have more equitable education - Estonia for example.

[ozmeldo]

I've worked in some of the best public schools in Bangkok. There are some decent Thai teachers, I mean some students are able to become fairly competent professionals. I know personally of some lovely success stories. Having said that, the number of classes I've walked by and seen the Thai teachers doing literally nothing would shock even the cynical amongst you. It's ironic, I just my ass daily, even hourly to provide some modicum of education to my students despite my surreal workload. 90% of foreign non native speakers are just as bad. The TCT should really scrutize their documents far more critically. Filipino schools are worse than Thai, they just happen to be able to (sort of) speak English and have memorized grammar rules (which they themselves don't use).

[wajuc]

Brits voted for Brexit and Americans elected Trump and you folks are talking about logical thinking.  What a laugh.

[futsukayoi]

21 hours ago, DavisH said:

That's probably due to a lack of proper nutrition among the majority of the population from a young age. I have a least a dozen kids in my M3 class that are way better than I was at the same age. Certainly, I teach maths at a much higher level than I learned at that grade level. The problem is that there is no incentive to better - the poor will remain poor as they have poor nutrition, come from more dysfunctional families and have less money to pay for extra classes (to make up for the poor education they get in rural schools). PISA scores only improve in countries than have more equitable education - Estonia for example.

 

Probably true.  As this link shows at Urban schools IQ is marginally above the world average but in Rural schools well below.  I am guessing but would assume that the Urban kids are in general from wealthier families with better nutrition.

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/learning/learning-news/575503/thai-kids-iq-scores-still-below-global-average

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 14/12/2559 at 8:53 AM, thhMan said:

My 2 girls come back more stupid after a day at school.

 

I have slowly watched my girls 7 and 12 starting to lose their identity and accept "going with the flow"

 

I have given them the tools to improve themselves and even went so far as banning Thai TV, so they dont get the bad influences.
They have Netflix and the Internet to get their information, which helps a little, but does not have the same influences they get at school, which at school is superior in exemplifying stupidity and incompetence as the norm

 

My 12 year old has gone from wanting to be an Astronaut to now wanting to be a cook, as something at school has suddenly stolen her goals for something easier to achieve... I am guessing its peer pressure, from her friends who have low IQ parents and teachers who teach English, but are doing such a poor job at it, that my 12 year old cant read or write English and in fact, which she does know, is starting to be forgotten.

 

We have books for most ages in English, sent by my mom (in Australia), that are good reads and not just educational... But, as my kids can barely read English, they choose the Thai books....

 

Its getting to the point that I think its better to keep my kids at home than go to school and get more stupid... My wife (Thai), is starting to acknowledge what I have been saying about the education, as my girls are becoming less logical in their thinking as weeks roll on.....

They never ask, Why, How or When and are now adopting the "agree and pretend to know" attitude, which I dont let them get away with as its become more predominant (hence my wife realizing whats going on) and I then ask my girls why they dont just say "they dont know" and ask me the answer

 

If there is a thing as "reverse education", then that is what I am starting to believe schools here are about... Long gone are those inquisitive stares from my kids and now slowly being replaced by the same BLANK LOOKS, I see when at malls, take away shops, retail stores etc....

 

 

Could a contributing factor be that they are spending a little too much time on their smart-phones?

[thhMan]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:01 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Could a contributing factor be that they are spending a little too much time on their smart-phones?

Not really....

We supervise the usage of those phones

The girls each have a laptop and just after I posted the first post here, I went out and grabbed some desks and setup a place for the girls to do their homework and arts and crafts type stuff

They now know what a continent is (I am amazed they didnt know) and in the very short time, can point out the continents and actually understand what it means and why its important to know...

The more I teach them, the more I realize how little they know.

 

Now I am looking into Homeschooling which I discovered was legalized way back in 2004, so may look further into that

 

[soalbundy]

On 12/14/2016 at 10:59 AM, Bangkok Barry said:

Along with a lack of logical thinking I have never yet in over 25 years in Thailand found any trace of common sense. I guess they are one and the same.

Depends where you are and who you meet. In Isaan i am always surprised how the farmers manage to keep going, juggling their debts with low farm produce prices,keeping their kids in school despite the school fees, putting on a brave face, always ready for a laugh and a joke. I suppose in Bangkok it's a major tragedy if the price of skin whitener cream increases.

[Rhys]

At a certain university, even with some students that wish to learn, in a certain English course, over 1000 students are housed this way in the guise of a lecture.

 

This type of class shows the students the Administration is more concerned with BEST BANG for the BUCK.

 

Generally, a well-meaning education administration tries to reach standards but is out of touch with the educational realities of students, from M to College.   What works here must work there, never mind the demographics and quality of the students.     The main reason is the student attitude and discipline persona of the learner... Thrill me.     The number of teachers per students, those issues seem to work out.

 

Courses that promote learning are few but they happen by mistake.

 

The Educational Administrators may promote, at  X school, we have instituted reforms in English language teaching, to conform with the CEFR, BFD...

 

While an ambitious goal to strive,  "Next year, let me be clear,  I want all our student to speak English, and those AO move to A2 and the A1 to the B1."  The stone will bleed red.

 

Thus what happens the students are taught to the test, and it is a numbers and test skill game, and we around this game again.

 

A solution proposed and actually impressive because the ADM had a pair and grew them,  we shall hire native speakers 20 to teach our students... Hey, way to go.

 

We shall pay them a high salary because they are NEST... the Thai teachers who graduated from abroad and speak fluently and can actually teach and show their dedication to their students, well let's keep their salary low like it is.. the new NEST, we start them at double, even the same academic MA qualifications.  Show me the money.

 

Let's bring in the computerized Langauge learning program, hmm free internet use again for the students and that is learning...we provide it so they learn it... herd them up.

 

However, it is their approach and bless them.

 and all the best.  

 

 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Depends where you are and who you meet. In Isaan i am always surprised how the farmers manage to keep going, juggling their debts with low farm produce prices,keeping their kids in school despite the school fees, putting on a brave face, always ready for a laugh and a joke. I suppose in Bangkok it's a major tragedy if the price of skin whitener cream increases.

 

I live now in Kalasin province and I'd agree with you, except I'm not sure how poor the farmers are. Not in my family, for sure. But knowing how to survive with little money isn't the same as having common sense. Having common sense might result in them not making silly decisions and therefore not being poor. An example is someone growing rubber trees and so everyone starts doing it and it kills the market. Same as you see 10 stalls by the road within 200 metres, all selling exactly the same when common sense would dictate..... oh, never mind. 

[soalbundy]

12 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

I live now in Kalasin province and I'd agree with you, except I'm not sure how poor the farmers are. Not in my family, for sure. But knowing how to survive with little money isn't the same as having common sense. Having common sense might result in them not making silly decisions and therefore not being poor. An example is someone growing rubber trees and so everyone starts doing it and it kills the market. Same as you see 10 stalls by the road within 200 metres, all selling exactly the same when common sense would dictate..... oh, never mind. 

ํYou've got to make do with what you've got. I am just glad that i don't have to make a living with the few resources that they have at hand. Farm produce takes time, one doesn't get immediate results, changing costs money and there is little of that about and no certainty of success. Everyone has mango trees in the back garden so they sell mango's.

[howerde]

I wonder why Thai teachers/schools/Thailand are always blamed for poor performance of kids,  while many parents do not invest time/money in their kids, blaming Thai teachers for everything, and perhaps some of these kids are just plain 'thick',  just because you are are Farang  you expect your kids to be high  achievers, look at yourselves first before blaming others.

[thhMan]

The education problem is not just a Thai issue...

However, due to the politics and the uneducated? people running the system in Thailand, there is only the "right way" as dictated by "management"

 

Due to the Homeschooling, I have been researching it a lot and see its slowly becoming a global trend...

And during some of my research, I came across this video which just nailed it for a home run!

 

 

[GarryP]

On 12/22/2016 at 1:08 PM, thhMan said:

The education problem is not just a Thai issue...

However, due to the politics and the uneducated? people running the system in Thailand, there is only the "right way" as dictated by "management"

 

Due to the Homeschooling, I have been researching it a lot and see its slowly becoming a global trend...

And during some of my research, I came across this video which just nailed it for a home run!

 

 

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

[thhMan]

On 12/26/2016 at 11:16 AM, GarryP said:

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

My Pleasure!

Whatever problems I have in this country, I can deal with it myself...

 

But as a father, it is my duty to do the best for my kids.... I dont trust the Thai Govt or the teachers one iota, so why would I let my kids be taught by a system and people that I have very little respect for

 

In Chiang Mai, I put both my kids in a Christian School, thinking they would get a better education, with less Buddhist teaching (I have nothing against Buddhism, except that it seems abused by the people)...  A few days of starting school, I had to sign some other papers and while I was at the Principals office, I spoke to the Computer teacher.

I asked what speed LAN are they running and the teacher had no idea and worse, wasn't sure what I was talking about (it was a test question)  I pulled my kids out of school that day and also found out my eldest had been helping the teacher in Computer classes...

 

So now, its time to put my teachers hat on :)

[GarryP]

9 minutes ago, thhMan said:

My Pleasure!

Whatever problems I have in this country, I can deal with it myself...

 

But as a father, it is my duty to do the best for my kids.... I dont trust the Thai Govt or the teachers one iota, so why would I let my kids be taught by a system and people that I have very little respect for

 

In Chiang Mai, I put both my kids in a Christian School, thinking they would get a better education, with less Buddhist teaching (I have nothing against Buddhism, except that it seems abused by the people)...

A few days of starting school, I had to sign some other papers and while I was at the Principals office, I spoke to the Computer teacher.

I asked what speed LAN are they running and the teacher had no idea and worse, wasn't sure what I was talking about (it was a test question)

I pulled my kids out of school that day and also found out my eldest had been helping the teacher in Computer classes...

 

So now, its time to put my teachers hat on :)

Good luck. 

[futsukayoi]

On 12/14/2016 at 7:57 PM, oldcarguy said:

I think  most of us in the west grew up with the "what if" question always in out brain....

 

OK , that might not always be a good thing , like what if I jump my bike off the roof , but most of the time your logic tells you its a bad idea ,

 

But even in the west being stupid gets you a TV show , Blond and stupid a long lasting show :)

 

I also think games like chess help you do the "what if" but plan a few more moves ahead of the other guy.....

 

I am so glad I grew up interested in many things , knew where the library was and did not have video games ( not invented yet)

 

Sure someone on here will know if it is true or not,  but I was told that chess (both International and traditional Thai versions) are played here more than in most western countries.

[Rhys]

....

4 hours ago, futsukayoi said:

 

Sure someone on here will know if it is true or not,  but I was told that chess (both International and traditional Thai versions) are played here more than in most western countries.

 

 

 

Very insightful...yet with some of the meaningful administrators who actually want to improve yet are clueless to the realities of education.  Two step backwards, castled.