White House suggests Putin was involved in US hacking

[Morch]

9 hours ago, Strange said:

 

And I don't think its funny that you are making these claims, antagonizing an already divided nation, from the white house without any evidence. You jokers don't give a shit about healing a divided nation. You are making sure to kick the shit out of the hornets nest on your way out. Antagonizing Russia, Antagonizing american people. Even if Russia did infact engage in "malicious cyber activity" what you are doing in response is letting them get under our skin and divide our nation even more. Helping them win you condescending daffodil. 

 

Look at this headline:

 

 

SUGGESTS

 

 

"I don't think" he says, on MSNBC, he says. 

 

Good bye Obama. You and the Democrats are REALLY screwing up on your way out. 

 

8 hours ago, Strange said:

 

Yeah and to accuse publicly that Russia and Putin himself, are trying to "destabilize our democracy"? Publicly? To that extreme? 

 

I don't doubt that "russia" in some form are involved in spying, hacking, etc... But right now there is zero evidence. Ill give them the benefit of the doubt though. 

The problem I have is the Democrats & MSM using it as an antagonistic flame tool. 

I care about national security more than most, but I care about politics just the same. Our own in-house politics can be just as much a threat to national security as "Putin" "maybe" aiding, pushing, meddling, with DNC leaks. Let alone what the affect of partisan clickbait misdirection & spin does to our own country and people. This is what pisses me off. The White House should be above this shit, but yet they are feeding the MSM and fueling the BS. 

 

Yet at the same time, like you say, we are probably MORE guilty of hacking and meddling than Russia. 

 

Its extremely clear that while there may be some basis of truth, what the current White House is doing on their way out has very little to do with "National Security" and more to do with gaining democrat ground for future endeavors. 

 

And basically being little shits at the cost of uproar and distrust over the future government. 

 

You, along with many other Trump supporters on this forum, had no issues with Trump making a whole lot of antagonizing, divisive and unfounded statements during and after his election campaigns. Suddenly it matters? 

 

Kicking the hornets nest on the way out? Perhaps. But then, if there are hornets, would it better for them to stick around? Considering Trump and some of his key appointments are apparently very pro-Russian. Trump himself dismissed and rejected the idea of Russian interference (except when he "jokingly" encouraged them to do more). Could Trump be trusted to deal with them hornets?

 

The White House should be above this. And yet, you support a president-elect who seems like same same on speed. Even before being in office.

[Strange]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

You, along with many other Trump supporters on this forum, had no issues with Trump making a whole lot of antagonizing, divisive and unfounded statements during and after his election campaigns. Suddenly it matters? 

 

This is the damn white house Morch. The hornets nest is being kicked from the absolute top. Its now gone past mere campaigning and rhetoric and the white house is using its position to instigate. 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

This is the damn white house Morch. The hornets nest is being kicked from the absolute top. Its now gone past mere campaigning and rhetoric and the white house is using its position to instigate. 

 

And if these suspicions are correct, then we'd a have a compromised president in the oval office. Better to not know?

 

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Fake News from News Actors.

Ol Vladimir must be pleased as punch to now have to deal with Trump and his Patton like appointees. A true wild card.

Hillary would have been very reckless with her ongoing and weakening of America's might.

Yeah right Russia wanted Trump to win.

I think they were rather more interested in Hrc and her fireball brand of protecting and standing up for the country. Like Benghazi.

 

That must have been the reason almost all official Russian media channels were singing Trump's praises. I don't know if Putin actually wanted Trump to win, I am sure that he was smart enough to know that it will be easier to deal with either, after sufficiently marring them in controversy.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Morch

[Strange]

Just now, Morch said:

 

And if these suspicions are correct, then we'd a have a compromised president in the oval office. Better to not know?

 

 

Lets be real. Everything else aside. Do you think, based on the available evidence, that we have a compromised president elect? 

 

Do you think that whatever the russians did, had any relevant impact on our election? Meaning, would the outcome be different if the russians had not done what they did? 

 

We don't need to get long winded here - I read the news too. I know whats being said. 

[NickJ]

Use your brain and stop believing propaganda. Why in the world would the Kremlin be happy with a conservative American govt that has muscle and won't back down. Then look over or review the last great deals America has made. Don't belive what you read open your eyes and see what's going on. 

[Linzz]

Since they all expected Hillary to win, the cries of moral outrage were loud at the horror of how unprecedented it would be against the principles of American democracy for Trump to say  we would have to wait and see his response if the election went against him. In the first debate he said he would accept a Hillary win. The question was never asked of her.

 

The election result has been riots in the streets (another false claim of violence being the hallmark of Trump rallies which were sponsored and provoked by Democrats). Then we have the recounts backed by the Democrats. When that fails then it's Putin that caused the loss for the Dems, in order to influence and cast doubt in the minds of the College electors, a desperate Custer's last stand. So Putin is also responsible for the  House and the Senate as well as the Presidency?

 

The Democrats are hypocrites. It's their way or it's no way. They cannot take the disappointment and will sink to the depths just to delegitimize Donald Trump. All that Wikileaks did was to expose the unchallengeable truth about the DNC. So because the truth was exposed, in their minds caused the Democrats to lose , so that means the election is illegitimate. That also means by logical extension, if the truth was hidden from the American people, then that would make the election legitimate.

 

This is the extent of the corruption still aided and abetted by the MSM that American politics has sunk to. 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Linzz

[NickJ]

Oh...the fun of the great pastime of speculation. 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Lets be real. Everything else aside. Do you think, based on the available evidence, that we have a compromised president elect? 

 

Do you think that whatever the russians did, had any relevant impact on our election? Meaning, would the outcome be different if the russians had not done what they did? 

 

We don't need to get long winded here - I read the news too. I know whats being said. 

 

I don't know, but I think there's enough to justify doubts and looking into matters. If you mean a direct connection between Trump and Putin as some nutcases suggest - no. However, if there was a Russian intervention, and the winning candidate was to assumes office, and suppress an investigation - then he'd be compromised regardless of personal benefit.

 

With regard to effect on election outcome - depends what falls under "whatever the Russians did". If this includes Wikileaks, then I'd say yes. Outright election fraud (as in tampering with voting machines) - doubtful.

 

 

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Use your brain and stop believing propaganda. Why in the world would the Kremlin be happy with a conservative American govt that has muscle and won't back down. Then look over or review the last great deals America has made. Don't belive what you read open your eyes and see what's going on. 

 

Use your brain, by all means. Perhaps stop being overly attached to labels, such as "conservative American govt that has muscle and won't back down". When it comes to Russia, the roles are reversed. Have another look at Trump's appointments and his own statements. Then maybe recall who was presented as the warmonger during the election campaign. Exactly - stop believing propaganda, open your eyes and see what's going on.

[sgtsabai]

There is no evidence being presented to the public by any of the so-call intelligence agencies and we are supposed to believe the agencies that lie when the say they have evidence? The fumbling bureau of idiots teaches it's agents to lie, as it does to those that attend it's classes, that I can attest to. The heads of the 3 letter agencies etc. have lied to Congress yet nothing was done. Now on the other hand, the Trump has financial ties with Russia as does that jerk he selected for Sec. of State. Oh yea and that nut case former general Flynn also. Oh, I would believe Assange  and whistle blower Binney, who was on the inside, much more than any of the 3 letter agencies, the President or just about anybody in the government.

[Strange]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

I don't know, but I think there's enough to justify doubts and looking into matters. If you mean a direct connection between Trump and Putin as some nutcases suggest - no. However, if there was a Russian intervention, and the winning candidate was to assumes office, and suppress an investigation - then he'd be compromised regardless of personal benefit.

 

With regard to effect on election outcome - depends what falls under "whatever the Russians did". If this includes Wikileaks, then I'd say yes. Outright election fraud (as in tampering with voting machines) - doubtful.

 

I agree, lets look into it. However, is that what they are doing? Or are they looking into it, whilst taking every little crumb and giving to the MSM to spin? This does not seem to be about the Russians, but more about Trump. More about making it as difficult as possible. More about cage rattling than justice. They promote themselves as taking the high road on issues, but here we are, regardless of to what extent russian involvement may be, with Putin giggling to himself over it all and the White House not giving a single shit. Putin trolling the US, Putin lolololing about it, americans fighting amongst themselves about it. Yeah sounds like winner to me. 

 

With or without wikileaks, trump would have won. If the DNC would have been above board, there would not be an issue. If HRC would have been above board, there would not be an issue. 99% of the problems that HRC and DNC faced are of their own doing. Entirely their fault. Both Republicans and Democrats were attacked through hacking. The Democrats are no angels, arguably just as bad or worse than Trump. 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, LPCustom69 said:

The Director of National Security, James Clapper, said today there were no Russian hacks of the emails in question.

 

Link?

 

 

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

I agree, lets look into it. However, is that what they are doing? Or are they looking into it, whilst taking every little crumb and giving to the MSM to spin? This does not seem to be about the Russians, but more about Trump. More about making it as difficult as possible. More about cage rattling than justice. They promote themselves as taking the high road on issues, but here we are, regardless of to what extent russian involvement may be, with Putin giggling to himself over it all and the White House not giving a single shit. Putin trolling the US, Putin lolololing about it, americans fighting amongst themselves about it. Yeah sounds like winner to me. 

 

With or without wikileaks, trump would have won. If the DNC would have been above board, there would not be an issue. If HRC would have been above board, there would not be an issue. 99% of the problems that HRC and DNC faced are of their own doing. Entirely their fault. Both Republicans and Democrats were attacked through hacking. The Democrats are no angels, arguably just as bad or worse than Trump. 

 

There's an investigation underway, how's that not looking into things? As far as I recall, Trump wasn't even mentioned, to begin with (correct me if I'm wrong). Rather it was Trump and his staff who blasted away any talk regarding the possibility of Russian intervention or on any investigation being required. Can't have it both ways.

 

It's a given this is a win-win situation for Putin regardless of the Russian intervention being reality or fantasy. It makes the US further divided either way, and shows his power if it was for real. There's no getting around this. Question remains if it's better to ignore it? If doubts remain and fester, they'll do as much damage, and if the Russian intervention was real ...well now.

 

What you state as fact, is an opinion. Like asserting Trump would have won anyway. I'm not denying HRC' or the DNC's flaws, nor claim they are angels. Never did. Our opinion of who's the lesser of two evils differs, but that's nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Opl]

back in 2007 :  Donald Trump praises Putin and defames George W. Bush -  

http://www.pravdareport.com/world/americas/02-11-2007/100073-donald_trump-0/

 

back in 1988 : Trump’s Record On Russia: Snubbed By Gorbachev, Fooled By Impostor

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/from-russia-with-love?utm_term=.gk4Jvz87b#.umBLE3z54

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Opl

[Silurian]

44 minutes ago, sgtsabai said:

Oh, I would believe Assange  and whistle blower Binney, who was on the inside, much more than any of the 3 letter agencies, the President or just about anybody in the government.

 

I am not sure how much to trust Assange when it comes to anything regarding Russia. Here is a pretty good article about how Julian works with Russia’s biggest propaganda network, Russia Today. Nadya also stated that Julian is "in a state of war with the American government".

 

Pussy Riot’s Nadya Tolokno: Julian Assange Is ‘Connected with the Russian Government’

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/27/pussy-riot-s-nadya-tolokno-julian-assange-is-connected-with-the-russian-government.html

 

Oh and let me add this link as well...

 

Julian Assange Is A Russian Front-Man, Not A Freedom Fighter

http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/09/julian-assange-is-a-russian-front-man-not-a-freedom-fighter/

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by Silurian

[Morch]

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I agree with your comments about worldwide politicians. The dirtiest of all careers.

 

But, the Obama administration offers zero proof. All based on anonymous reports and conjecture.They are becoming a laughing stock around the world.

 

Their anointed chosen successor failed, She lost. Didn't do as expected. She, and they, knew about all the baggage and skeletons she had. I see many American commentators saying the leaks actually came from US security services, that they gave the info to Wikileaks. Nothing to do with the Russians.

 

But the Democrats, like so many left liberal political constructs just can't accept rejection of their ideas, their candidates and above all having to relinquish control of the gravy train.

 

Maybe Obama should also instigate an investigation into the Clinton Foundation and large cash donations from Germany and Saudi Arabia? Of course that would all be above board charitable giving and nothing to do with trying to get future favors from who they thought would be the next POTUS.

 

Until some real proof is put forward these are just silly and meaningless insults.

 

I see many American commentators saying the leaks actually came from US security services, that they gave the info to Wikileaks. Nothing to do with the Russians.

 

I actually haven't seen "many" claiming this. And non that could substantiate it. Needless to say, most of these commentators were firmly on one side of the political spectrum. There was another related report, on the daily mail, but the source is rather suspect and it did not relate to intelligence services.

 

Maybe Obama should also instigate an investigation into the Clinton Foundation and large cash donations from Germany and Saudi Arabia? Of course that would all be above board charitable giving and nothing to do with trying to get future favors from who they thought would be the next POTUS.

 

As far as I'm aware the investigation is still ongoing. Looking into candidates ties to foreign players would require Trump to expose all of his business interests, something he wasn't and isn't keen on doing.

 

Until some real proof is put forward these are just silly and meaningless insults.

 

There is an investigation underway. Unless mistaken, the verbal attacks were initiated by Trump and his staff.

[Silurian]

I just heard that Putin might be the richest man in the world. Since his assets are hidden (remind you of anyone?) it is difficult to calculate his actual net worth but I've seen it range from $70 Billion to $200 Billion. No wonder why Comrade Donald loves Putin. Comrade Donald probably wants to emulate Putin's government style of funneling wealth to himself.

 

VLADIMIR PUTIN MIGHT BE THE RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD

http://www.alux.com/vladimir-putin-net-worth/

 

Is Vladimir Putin the Richest Man in the World?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/040716/vladimir-putin-richest-man-world.asp

 

Vladimir Putin 'corruption': Five things we learned about the Russian President's secret wealth

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/vladimir-putin-corruption-five-things-we-learned-about-the-russian-pre

sidents-secret-wealth-a6834171.html

Edited December 16, 2016 by Silurian

[landslide]

10 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Assange is hardly a credible source.  Nor is Russia.

Nor any politician for that matter.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, landslide said:

Nor any politician for that matter.

Especially Putin.

 

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/russia-liberal-democracy/510011/

Quote

 

Russia and the Threat to Liberal Democracy

How Vladimir Putin is making the world safe for autocracy

The greatest danger, however, is not what is happening in Asia, Africa, or Latin America. It is the alarming decay of liberal democracy in Europe and the United States, accelerated by escalating Russian efforts at subversion. Putin’s forces are on such a roll that they can no longer contain their glee. One pro-Putin Russian governor recently declared in a radio interview, “It turns out that United Russia [Putin’s political party] won the elections in America.”

 

[Linzz]

2 hours ago, Silurian said:

I just heard that Putin might be the richest man in the world.

 

Therefore  he must be behind the hacking! Oprah has $3.2 billion too

[Opl]

6 minutes ago, Linzz said:

 

Therefore  he must be behind the hacking! Oprah has $3.2 billion too

 

Therefore he can compete with D. Trump on how to turn a Presidency into a milk cow

[Scott]

Baiting posts removed.   Continue and suspensions will be issued.  

[Jingthing]

FBI and CIA both agree.

Is this not an act of WAR? 

Why is trump so supportive of Putin? What kind of bizarre president supports a hostile authoritarian nation that attacks the very core of your liberal democracy like that? 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-backs-cia-view-that-russia-intervened-to-help-trump-win-election/2016/12/16/05b42c0e-c3bf-11e6-9a51-cd56ea1c2bb7_story.html

 

Quote

 

FBI backs CIA view that Russia intervened to help Trump win election

 

FBI Director James B. Comey and Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. are in agreement with a CIA assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election in part to help Donald Trump win the presidency, according to U.S. officials.

Comey’s support for the CIA’s conclusion — and officials say that he never changed his position — suggests that the leaders of the three agencies are in agreement on Russian intentions, contrary to suggestions by some lawmakers that the FBI disagreed with the CIA.

 

But wait, will trump's love affair will Putin last? Hmm. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/12/16/donald-trump-doesnt-know-it-yet-but-vladimir-putin-is-going-to-dump-him/

"MARRAKESH, Morocco — President-elect Donald Trump’s kind words and admiration for Russian President Vladimir Putin seem painfully naive. Moscow’s interference in the U.S. presidential elections makes their bromance even more unnerving. Yet Trump’s pro-Russian posture is neither unprecedented nor likely to last very long."

Edited December 16, 2016 by Jingthing

[Linzz]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

FBI and CIA both agree.

Is this not an act of WAR? 

Why is trump so supportive of Putin? What kind of bizarre president supports a hostile nation that attacks your democracy like that? 

 

 

 

So you like Comey now? I thought you guys over there thought he should end up without a job not long ago!

[Jingthing]

17 minutes ago, Linzz said:

 

So you like Comey now? I thought you guys over there thought he should end up without a job not long ago!

Whether I like Comey or not isn't the point. 

The point is there is agreement among the U.S. intelligence agencies that Putin aimed to help trump with the U.S. presidency, and all patriotic Americans, pro trump or not, should find that OUTRAGEOUS. 

[craigt3365]

15 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The thing is Craig, no one has offered any tangible proof that the hacks were carried out by anyone. All conjecture and "spies under the bed".

 

Putin wouldn't know if it wasn't done by any Russian state controlled entity. Wikileaks denies Russian involvement. Saw some comments on American media that it was US security service personnel who leaked this. Again no proof, but none offered on either.

 

It does seem to try and deflect from the actual content of the leaks which might well be part of the objective.

Actually, there's lots of proof.  This is an excellent article by a reputable site.  One which Facebook uses to verify news.  The hack came from Russia.  Whether Putin knew is up in the air.  Wikileaks is not a reliable source.  Worth a read:

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/12/trump-russia-u-s-election/

Quote

 

After the election, at a House hearing on Nov. 17, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said the Intelligence Community did not release a statement until October — nearly four months after the DNC hack was publicly disclosed — because it wanted to have enough evidence before going public with such an allegation against Russia.

 

“We gave considerable thought to diming out Russia,” Clapper said. “With that statement, we waited until we felt we had sufficient basis for it and we did, both from a forensic and as well as other sources of intelligence that led us to that statement.”

 

 

Details have not been released and may never be due to security concerns.  But I think more will be released in the coming days and weeks.  This is an extremely hot potato being tossed around in Washington right now! LOL

[zaphod reborn]

On 12/16/2016 at 2:29 PM, zaphod reborn said:

 

You know this is headed to a Congressional investigation where your hero, Trump, is going to have to divulge his tax returns proving he is indebted to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars to Russian banks.  The guy is going to be impeached within months of being inaugurated. 

 

It's all coming unraveled for Trump.  He has now disclosed he owes $300 million to Deutsche Bank.  And who is his personal banker?  Rosemary Vrablic, the very same banker who has been implicated in stashing billions on behalf of Putin in offshore accounts.  The FBI investigation of Trump's loans has begun. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-may-300-million-conflict-100103088.html http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/29/deutsche-banks-10-billion-scandal

[craigt3365]

13 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

 

It's all coming unraveled for Trump.  He has now disclosed he owes $300 million to Deutsche Bank.  And who is his personal banker?  Rosemary Vrablic, the very same banker who has been implicated in stashing billions on behalf of Putin in offshore accounts.  The FBI investigation of Trump's loans has begun. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-may-300-million-conflict-100103088.html http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/08/29/deutsche-banks-10-billion-scandal

All I can say is wow!  And...man, did he fool his followers.  I didn't like either candidate in the elections, but wow.  I'd be embarrassed if I voted for Trump.  Thanks for the links.

 

From the Yahoo article:

Quote

Trump’s dealings with Wall Street stretch back decades to his attempt to build an Atlantic City casino empire. That badly timed push forced him to renegotiate with creditors when he couldn’t pay back billions of dollars in loans. His major backers in that era included Citbank, Chase Manhattan Bank and Bankers Trust -- a bank that was acquired by Deutsche Bank in 1999 -- and the debacle left a trail of angry lenders.