Israel's Netanyahu lashes out at Obama over UN vote

[louse1953]

3 hours ago, DNPBC0 said:

Israel has been shamelessly acting in flagrant disregard of its UN obligations for decades. Israel is free to leave the UN whenever it chooses.

They are a noose around the US's neck.Cut em loose and watch the whining.

[Briggsy]

Netanyahu's outrage is more for domestic consumption than it is aimed at the nations who supported the vote.

 

It is vital to Netanyahu not to be seen domestically as the Prime Minister who took Israel to international isolation or pariah status in the mould of apartheid South Africa. Thus the disproportionate emotional response against "Israel's enemies".

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

They are a noose around the US's neck.Cut em loose and watch the whining.

Support for Israel's right to exist and defend itself is enjoys overwhelming public support among Americans. Whine about that, dude. 

[ChidlomDweller]

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Support for Israel's right to exist and defend itself is enjoys overwhelming public support among Americans. Whine about that, dude. 

Perhaps.  But I moved to the US in 1992 and have kept a close watch of the media there since then, and there's been a vast shift in sentiment.  In the 1990s you could barely utter any criticism of Israel without being branded an anti-semite.  Now, the comment section of a Jewish stronghold like the NY Times is full of highly critical comments, often by American Jews fed up with a decade of ugly, hard-right likud government.  In Europe the criticism is a lot more robust yet, with many people supporting a boycott.  There's no way to spin this and make it sound just.  Israel already has 78% of historical Palestine and still it's not enough.  I wouldn't be too confident that Israel will have any support left in another 20 years, and you can thank Netanyahu and people like Lieberman for that.   

Edited December 26, 2016 by ChidlomDweller

[humqdpf]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

Respect? really? so this is what you think it's all about? respect?

Anyone who's not well versed in the history of the middle east

should refrain from making uneducated silly comments.....

And what silly comments are these? The person you accuse of making silly comments is only asking that certain Israeli politicians show a bit of respect to other countries, including those who have supported Israel in the extremely recent past (the USA has just given Israel a huge amount of military aid), and not to be referring to such countries as jackals.

 

As for Netanyahu who has been living off the political capital based on the honour of his deceased brother (the commander of the raid on Entebbe and the only member of the force to have died on the raid), he has been driving USA presidents crazy for decades - even President Clinton when he was in office was once heard to remark after having to endure the usual hectoring lecture from Netanyahu, "Who does he think is the leader of the world power in the room?

 

Israeli politicians should learn that indeed there are plenty of potential agreements to be made out there if only they would shut up and listen up. Even Saudi Arabia and Israel often find themselves on the same side of the argument (especially in relation to Iran, although both are probably on the wrong side of history in that regard). 

 

Yes, because of his son-in-law, Trump, who is well-known to carry the impression of the opinions of the last person he has spoken to on a subject, is likely to be much more pro-Netanyahu (as opposed necessarily to the long-term interests of Israel and its citizens - these are not coincidental with Netanyahu's own personal interests which is to hang on to power at all costs and keep the Israeli citizens as frightened as possible so that he can keep playing the hardline militaristic card).

 

But Trump could change his mind - I could imagine him being on the receiving end of one of Netanyahu's hectoring speeches and taking an extreme dislike to him. Shorn of its only real partner, Israel would be in for a hard time. Much better for the country's long-term security to put together other partners too beyond a couple of acquiescent neighbours, such as Egypt and Jordan whom Netanyahu pours scorn onto from time to time.

 

Respect is earned and it is a pity that Netanyahu does not even try to earn it for his country.

[thetruth revealer]

5 minutes ago, humqdpf said:

And what silly comments are these? The person you accuse of making silly comments is only asking that certain Israeli politicians show a bit of respect to other countries, including those who have supported Israel in the extremely recent past (the USA has just given Israel a huge amount of military aid), and not to be referring to such countries as jackals.

 

As for Netanyahu who has been living off the political capital based on the honour of his deceased brother (the commander of the raid on Entebbe and the only member of the force to have died on the raid), he has been driving USA presidents crazy for decades - even President Clinton when he was in office was once heard to remark after having to endure the usual hectoring lecture from Netanyahu, "Who does he think is the leader of the world power in the room?

 

Israeli politicians should learn that indeed there are plenty of potential agreements to be made out there if only they would shut up and listen up. Even Saudi Arabia and Israel often find themselves on the same side of the argument (especially in relation to Iran, although both are probably on the wrong side of history in that regard). 

 

Yes, because of his son-in-law, Trump, who is well-known to carry the impression of the opinions of the last person he has spoken to on a subject, is likely to be much more pro-Netanyahu (as opposed necessarily to the long-term interests of Israel and its citizens - these are not coincidental with Netanyahu's own personal interests which is to hang on to power at all costs and keep the Israeli citizens as frightened as possible so that he can keep playing the hardline militaristic card).

 

But Trump could change his mind - I could imagine him being on the receiving end of one of Netanyahu's hectoring speeches and taking an extreme dislike to him. Shorn of its only real partner, Israel would be in for a hard time. Much better for the country's long-term security to put together other partners too beyond a couple of acquiescent neighbours, such as Egypt and Jordan whom Netanyahu pours scorn onto from time to time.

 

Respect is earned and it is a pity that Netanyahu does not even try to earn it for his country.

Well spoken and reflected on facts.

[yardrunner]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Support for Israel's right to exist and defend itself is enjoys overwhelming public support among Americans. Whine about that, dude. 

But the support does not extend to illegal activities

[Jingthing]

But the support does not extend to illegal activities

I never said it did. I've repeatedly pointed out the mainstream U. S. view including Jews is more moderate and not supportive of the West bank settlement movement. Obama is a bit to the left of the American mainstream on this and now trump has positioned himself extremely to the right even by Israeli standards.

[Jingthing]

Perhaps.  But I moved to the US in 1992 and have kept a close watch of the media there since then, and there's been a vast shift in sentiment.  In the 1990s you could barely utter any criticism of Israel without being branded an anti-semite.  Now, the comment section of a Jewish stronghold like the NY Times is full of highly critical comments, often by American Jews fed up with a decade of ugly, hard-right likud government.  In Europe the criticism is a lot more robust yet, with many people supporting a boycott.  There's no way to spin this and make it sound just.  Israel already has 78% of historical Palestine and still it's not enough.  I wouldn't be too confident that Israel will have any support left in another 20 years, and you can thank Netanyahu and people like Lieberman for that.   

Dishonest spin on what I said. I never implied support for Israel's right to exist and defend itself is the same thing as supporting all policies of all right wing Israeli governments including settlement policy.

[cocorico2558]

Netanyahu is a war criminal, a terrorist who should be taken to Den Hague with his racist zionist friends. Shame on them.

[Jingthing]

Netanyahu is a war criminal, a terrorist who should be taken to Den Hague with his racist zionist friends. Shame on them.

What about his non-racist Zionist friends?

[cocorico2558]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

What about his non-racist Zionist friends?

There are none.

 

[Thorgal]

 
Respect? really? so this is what you think it's all about? respect?
Anyone who's not well versed in the history of the middle east
should refrain from making uneducated silly comments.....

Well for me, OP means that the Oslo agreements are going to be finished the way Israel used to apply these agreements.

Israel took advantage of these agreements to expand illegal settlements.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/12/oslo-israel-reneged-colonial-palestine

To know that political support, success and legacy in Israel is most of all depending on the applications of hars settlements policies.

Sadly, the harsher the reprisals towards Palestinian population, the more political success was guaranteed.

You can of course not agree with me, but I can't name any Israeli political figure who could have made significant economic or social reforms.

What comes around, goes around...no time for crocodile tears on this diplomatic level...


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[nausea]

Tail wagging the dog, the dog needs to wag the tail. OK, we all accept " Uti Possidetis", but these stupid accretions aren't helping anybody. I suspect they are a bargaining chip in the big game, which gives litle respect to the pawns. Anybody who's played chess will know what I mean.

[ChidlomDweller]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What about his non-racist Zionist friends?

Honest question: who do you have in mind?  How can anybody a friend in word and deed of Netanyahu and not be racist himself?  

[Jingthing]

There are none.
 

Funny. To me that position is hateful and shows total ignorance about what Zionism is.

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Support for Israel's right to exist and defend itself is enjoys overwhelming public support among Americans. Whine about that, dude. 

 

Does a right to defend yourself include evicting families from their property and land they have owned for centuries and then building apartment blocks there to be sold to settler families at incredible profit, then the local indigenous people that lived there are prevented from going on that land again. Is that 'Defence' or 'Offence' I am confused, please enlighten us.

[Kiwiken]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I don't really get where you're coming from. Passing resolutions or not, no matter what the U.N. structure, is not the same thing as passed resolutions being enforced. This resolution will not be enforced and the U.N. does go after Israel with absurdly more enthusiasm (and frequency) than other misbehaving members doing much, much worse. Just look up the numbers about that, they don't lie. 

99% of resolutions concerning Israel get vetoed by the USA. Resolutions trying to stop bloodshed in Syria, South Sudan, and other Countries tend to be vetoed by Russia or China and sometimes the USA and Britain. Mostly because it jeopardizes  their Arms exports and perceived sphere of influences. The big players are not interested in peace just a piece of the Action

[khunken]

Unfortunately this is too little too late.

Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in the hope he would work for peace in the Middle East & elsewhere. If he had abstained around the same time on one of the numerous settlrmant resolutions vetoed or threatened with a veto, and continued to do so, this may well have made a difference. But he didn't and the whole ME - not just Palestine - is in worse shape than when he took over. Sad because I thought he would make a difference.

Yes it was just a parting shot.

Edited December 26, 2016 by khunken
clarity

[Ulysses G.]

6 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

I really can't understand the criticism against Obama, for not exercising the Veto.

 

The resolution is not just about settlements. It prevents Jews from praying at the Wailing Wall - one of their holiest sites. It stops them from living in the Jewish Quarter - were they have lived for thousands of years.

On top of that Israel has proof that the Obama administration orchestrated the whole thing from behind the scenes. The president is too much of a hypocrite to even stand behind his own plot. Transparent NOT!

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

The resolution is not just about settlements. It prevents Jews from praying at the Wailing Wall - one of their holiest sites. It stops them from living in the Jewish Quarter - were they have lived for thousands of years.

On top of that Israel has proof that the Obama administration orchestrated the whole thing from behind the scenes. The president is too much of a hypocrite to even stand behind his own plot. Transparent NOT!

Well, where is this proof?

[alex8912]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

Respect? really? so this is what you think it's all about? respect?

Anyone who's not well versed in the history of the middle east

should refrain from making uneducated silly comments.....

Just like the one you made about George Michaels death.  Pot meet kettle!!

[optad]

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

trump will enter office with the most extremist far right Israel policy position of any president in U.S. history.  The ambassador to Israel that he picked is considerably to the right even of Netanyahu. He has actively supported extremist right wing settlements specifically and has gone on record as not considering a two state solution a goal anymore. This ambassador to be also deeply insults the majority of American Jews that are more liberal on Israel policy and mostly against expanding settlements. This new ambassador and the trump position he represents does NOT represent the majority U.S. views on these matters, Jews and non-Jews. The majority U.S. opinion is indeed supportive of Israel's right to exist and defend itself, not supportive of expanding settlements, and still seeks a negotiated two state solution as the goal. 

 

Thanks for that JT. It does clear some natural confuscations.

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

On top of that Israel has proof that the Obama administration orchestrated the whole thing from behind the scenes. The president is too much of a hypocrite to even stand behind his own plot. Transparent NOT!

Of course he did. He is President of the USA ....looking out for the interests of his own country, not some tin pot tiny recalcitrant regime's  6,000 miles away that frequently tries to undermine US foreign policy. What's so wrong about that?

[Ulysses G.]

*He is the president of the USA"

 

Not for long and good riddance. Trump is going to be a lot more faithful to our friends. 

[dexterm]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

*He is the president of the USA"

 

Not for long and good riddance. Trump is going to be a lot more faithful to our friends. 

Just depends who you regard as a US President's friends...American citizens or Israelis.

[Ulysses G.]

Both! Israel is a very valuable ally.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Obama is hell bent on doing as much damage as he can, in any way he can before he is finally out.

 

What damage was done to the US?

[Ulysses G.]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

What damage was done to the US?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/12/22/by-allowing-an-anti-israel-security-council-resolution-obama-will-hurt-the-u-n-and-not-help-peace/?utm_term=.c4cbfce528ea

[Morch]

14 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

I think the ability of only one veto vote to cause a resolution to not pass is a terrible thing.  The UNSC should get rid of this.  Current issue aside.  It makes the UNSC a toothless tiger.

 

P.S. I know little about this settlement issue, just commenting on the use of the veto to stop resolutions from passing.

 

There is no veto power in the UN General Assembly, or in any other of its bodies. The amount of resolutions specifically dealing with Israel on any of these forums is out of proportion by any account. That is, if one considers the UN as an organizations meant to address all global issues. As voting in the UN is often carried out along partisan, sectarian or interest lines, quite easy for certain groups to exert undo pressure in forums where no veto exists. 

 

Ambassador Power's speech touches both on this issue (starting from the sixth paragraph, I think) and on some of the background and considerations leading to the US abstention: 

 

READ: U.S. Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power's Full Speech at the Security Council
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761017

 

On another note, the UN Security Council is a body which could declare operative measures - deploying UN forces, applying sanctions and so on. If there was no veto power, weaker countries could not enforce things anyway, not without major powers playing ball. Doubt any of the permanent members would bow down to the wishes of say....Thailand? If these involved something of the sort. There's got to be some realism applied or the whole thing will collapse in no time. Further, the UN is not self-sustaining, and not all countries donate equally, not when it comes to financials and not when it comes to manpower. Should this be ignored?

 

I agree that the UN is a faulty instrument, but can't see that this specific tinkering would make it better.