Given up on the idea of living in Thailand

[jpinx]

9 hours ago, JB300 said:

Maybe so, but apparently it is the "Rule" & it does seem like they're applying it more & more http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/960761-notification-of-residence-fine-popular-thing/ so not "rubbish" to me (YMMV).

I thought of 3 good places (in Asia) to base yourself for travelling... Singapore, (somewhere near) Bangkok & KL so had planned on being in Thailand for 5-10 years (maybe even settle there if I could convince my Filipina to move over), but (to me) it just feels like it's becoming more & more of a hassle.

In your position, it would be relatively easy to enter on a "permit to stay", go to the immigration office near you in Thailand and apply for the non-O based on retirement, and then extend that for a year using the income method - no Thai bank account needed. 

Given your frequency of travel you are unlikely to be in the country for more than 90 days at a time, so reporting is a moot point. If it does arise, ou can do it by post or online - check with your immigration office for what they'll accept.

You tell immigration where you are staying on your landing card and you don't need to re-register every time unless you change address.

 

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, Caracena said:

In October several teachers in my husband's school in Samut Prakan went out on vacation from Thailand and went somewhere else. When they came back the person in school who deals with the Immigration office told them about the enforcement of a new rule that you have to submit TM28 if you went out from Thailand and came back (yes, in the same place). Even though those teachers didn't know about this rule they had to pay a fine. If they wouldn't do it, at the point when they will have to do their Non-B/Non-O visa extensions at that Immigration office the fine would grow much higher (200 baht per day).

 ".... the person in school who deals with the Immigration office ...."   And there lies the problem.....

[Caracena]

10 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

Then Samut Prakan must be a rouge office.

A foreigner notifies his address on the TM6 arrival card.

 

I don't doubt you, but this requirement isn't applied nationally.

I haven't said it's applied nationally, I said clearly that it's applied here in Samut Prakan. As I said we never submitted a TM28 while living in Bangkok. But there are other provinces where these rules are applied, the reports about it you can find on TV forum.

So we don't know where the author of OP would live if he'd ever decide to live in Thailand and who knows what kind of regulations he'd have to follow in that place.

[dentonian]

4 minutes ago, jpinx said:

In your position, it would be relatively easy to enter on a "permit to stay", go to the immigration office near you in Thailand and apply for the non-O based on retirement, and then extend that for a year using the income method - no Thai bank account needed. 

 

 

The OP stated he would actually cease working if retiring in Thailand, so the income method wouldn't be an option.

He would need to deposit 800,000THB in a Thai bank as financial proof.

[Caracena]

4 minutes ago, jpinx said:

 ".... the person in school who deals with the Immigration office ...."   And there lies the problem.....

What problem? The fine wasn't paid to her, it was paid to the Imm. And the announcement about the enforcement of TM28 rule appeared here on Thaivisa.com around the same time when we first heard about it from the school.

[dentonian]

3 minutes ago, Caracena said:

I haven't said it's applied nationally, I said clearly that it's applied here in Samut Prakan. As I said we never submitted a TM28 while living in Bangkok. But there are other provinces where these rules are applied, the reports about it you can find on TV forum.

Other than your report on the TM28 issue I have seen no other reports to that effect.

The many reports on TV are about filing TM30's, when returning back to Thailand.

 

3 minutes ago, Caracena said:

 

So we don't know where the author of OP would live if he'd ever decide to live in Thailand and who knows what kind of regulations he'd have to follow in that place.

The OP gave the impression his choice of residence would be in Bangkok.

Easy access to Suvarnabhumi for his frequent trips.

[jpinx]

6 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

The OP stated he would actually cease working if retiring in Thailand, so the income method wouldn't be an option.

He would need to deposit 800,000THB in a Thai bank as financial proof.

The income method allows him to show at least 65k per month and not have anything in a Thai bank.  It suits people with investment income, private pensions, etc

[jpinx]

19 minutes ago, Caracena said:

What problem? The fine wasn't paid to her, it was paid to the Imm. And the announcement about the enforcement of TM28 rule appeared here on Thaivisa.com around the same time when we first heard about it from the school.

The problem of mis-information.

 

The forms are self-explanatory...

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download

 

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by jpinx

[dentonian]

1 minute ago, jpinx said:

The income method allows him to show at least 65k per month and not have anything in a Thai bank.  It suits people with investment income, private pensions, etc

 

Agree with what your saying, but the OP hasn't stated he has such an income from investments or private pension.

Only stated he had sizeable assets. ($$$$$$)

[jpinx]

2 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

Agree with what your saying, but the OP hasn't stated he has such an income from investments or private pension.

Only stated he had sizeable assets. ($$$$$$)

Indeed -- which might mean the Elite visa might be a better option

[dentonian]

13 minutes ago, Caracena said:

What problem? The fine wasn't paid to her, it was paid to the Imm. And the announcement about the enforcement of TM28 rule appeared here on Thaivisa.com around the same time when we first heard about it from the school.

 

If your friends have already completed a TM6 on entry, then they have complied with reporting their address.

 

jpinx is saying maybe the confusion lies with the person in your school who deals with the Immigration office.

Unless they live on the school premises, it's no business of the school to be involved with address reporting.

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

If your friends have already completed a TM6 on entry, then they have complied with reporting their address.

 

jpinx is saying maybe the confusion lies with the person in your school who deals with the Immigration office.

Unless they live on the school premises, it's no business of the school to be involved with address reporting.

That's true - in which case the school would need to complete a TM 30 

[dentonian]

5 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Indeed -- which might mean the Elite visa might be a better option

 

Would solve the OP's problems, easy fix, but expensive.

I'd try to get a Non Imm O, failing that a TV and do a conversion in Bangkok to an extension based on retirement with a ME re-entry permit.

 

The OP sounds very capable of a little paperwork.

[Gary A]

As far as the bank account, a friend of mine was planning to get a retirement visa. The banks would not open an account for him. I took him to immigration and told them the story. An immigration officer wrote a note (in Thai), and told my friend to give that to whatever bank where he wanted an account. I have no idea what the note said but when he gave it to the bank, he had a new account and an ATM card within 15 minutes.

 

When you have a retirement visa, you can get a multi entry permit and can come and go as you choose. It appears that you are really not serious about living in Thailand or you would find out the facts. The rules are strictly enforced but it is not that complicated.

[jpinx]

1 minute ago, dentonian said:

 

Would solve the OP's problems, easy fix, but expensive.

I'd try to get a Non Imm O, failing that a TV and do a conversion in Bangkok to an extension based on retirement with a ME re-entry permit.

 

The OP sounds very capable of a little paperwork.

I have a memory of tourist visas not being eligible for conversion like that.  The options are an OA from home country,  or enter on a stamp (no visa) and go to immigration to get the non-O and start the process

[dentonian]

3 minutes ago, jpinx said:

That's true - in which case the school would need to complete a TM 30 

 

Would be interested to know if UJ can confirm reports of Samut Prakon requiring TM28's to be filed when returning to Thailand.

[Rhys]

At times, we still just have the situation, it depends on the office...

[dentonian]

3 minutes ago, Gary A said:

As far as the bank account, a friend of mine was planning to get a retirement visa. The banks would not open an account for him. I took him to immigration and told them the story. An immigration officer wrote a note (in Thai), and told my friend to give that to whatever bank where he wanted an account. I have no idea what the note said but when he gave it to the bank, he had a new account and an ATM card within 15 minutes.

 

When you have a retirement visa, you can get a multi entry permit and can come and go as you choose. It appears that you are really not serious about living in Thailand or you would find out the facts. The rules are strictly enforced but it is not that complicated.

 

It is an extension based on retirement (not a Visa) obtained from local Immigration offices within Thailand.

[dentonian]

10 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I have a memory of tourist visas not being eligible for conversion like that.  The options are an OA from home country,  or enter on a stamp (no visa) and go to immigration to get the non-O and start the process

 

You can convert to a Non Imm O (prelude to getting an extension) from TV or Visa exempt in Bangkok.

I understand Jomtien and Chiang Mai can also do them. UJ can confirm.

Edited December 31, 2016 by dentonian
correct typo error

[JB300]

The OP gave the impression his choice of residence would be in Bangkok.
Easy access to Suvarnabhumi for his frequent trips.

The link I posted (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/960761-Notification-of-residence-fine%2E-Popular-thing-%3F) was a guy in Phuket who received a 5,000THB fine for not reporting his address (own condo) when he got back from a trip (obviously he would have completed a TM6 when he arrived) & a few other people (same thread) have said the same happen to them in CM & HH.

The idea would be to live within 1-2hr drive of Swampy though I tried an experimental month (long story, took 2015 off when my previous employee tried to move me back to the UK & went travelling) living in Central Bangkok (Soi 13) & lasted 10 days so it would be some ways out of city center.

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, JB300 said:

 

 

The link I posted (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/960761-Notification-of-residence-fine%2E-Popular-thing-%3F) was a guy in Phuket who received a 5,000THB fine for not reporting his address (own condo) when he got back from a trip (obviously he would have completed a TM6 when he arrived) & a few other people (same thread) have said the same happen to them in CM & HH.

The idea would be to live within 1-2hr drive of Swampy though I tried an experimental month (long story, took 2015 off when my previous employee tried to move me back to the UK & went travelling) living in Central Bangkok (Soi 13) & lasted 10 days so it would be some ways out of city center.
 

That's Phuket, Hua Hin and Chiang Mai --  not Bangkok.  Every office does it slightly different   A lot depends on your personal approach to the immigration officers.  Or buy and Elite 5 year visa and never have to do anything. :)

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, jpinx said:

I have a memory of tourist visas not being eligible for conversion like that.  The options are an OA from home country,  or enter on a stamp (no visa) and go to immigration to get the non-O and start the process

Both a tourist visa or visa exempt entry can be converted to a 90 day non immigrant visa entry. The only difference is the form used to apply for it.

18 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

You can convert to a Non Imm O (prelude to getting an extension) form TV or Visa exempt in Bangkok.

I understand Jomtien and Chiang Mai can also do them. UJ can confirm.

Chiang Mai can do one and perhaps at a few offices in the north that can accept the application and send it to there for approval.

Bangkok accepts them and has given Jomtien and few other offices in the central region authority to accept and send them to there for approval.

[JB300]

 

I'll politely disagree with you on this issue Joe.

I obtained my Non Imm O SE Visa from Liverpool (2014) before the Consulates were stopped issuing them earlier this year.

 

Since then I personally know of two friends who have obtained them from the London Embassy for the purpose of retirement in Thailand.

Neither married to a Thai or in receipt of state Pension. Both over 50.

Making it clear you want to apply for an extension in Thailand appears to be the key.

 

The other option is to get a TV and do a conversion in Thailand as you stated.

Strange as the London site clearly states you need to be receiving a State pension ("In the case of UK Pensioner (Non-immigrant "O"): a copy of UK State Pension") maybe your friends got in before they changed the rules (you obviously did as Liverpool stopped doing Non-Imm on 15/1/2014).

Then again the London site still says "Furthermore, foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry." Which we all know got scrapped a long time ago.

[JB300]

As far as the bank account, a friend of mine was planning to get a retirement visa. The banks would not open an account for him. I took him to immigration and told them the story. An immigration officer wrote a note (in Thai), and told my friend to give that to whatever bank where he wanted an account. I have no idea what the note said but when he gave it to the bank, he had a new account and an ATM card within 15 minutes.

 

When you have a retirement visa, you can get a multi entry permit and can come and go as you choose. It appears that you are really not serious about living in Thailand or you would find out the facts. The rules are strictly enforced but it is not that complicated.

Not sure which facts I've not found out (obviously [emoji13]) but can assure you I'm very serious about retiring when I finish the 2 years work I've committed to doing ( March 2018) so am trying to get Visa, accommodation, bank account etc... Set-up in the meantime.

Great tip about getting a letter from immigration [emoji106]

[Gary A]

56 minutes ago, dentonian said:

 

It is an extension based on retirement (not a Visa) obtained from local Immigration offices within Thailand.

 

It's difficult to get an extension if you don't have the visa to start with.

[dentonian]

28 minutes ago, JB300 said:

Strange as the London site clearly states you need to be receiving a State pension ("In the case of UK Pensioner (Non-immigrant "O"): a copy of UK State Pension") maybe your friends got in before they changed the rules (you obviously did as Liverpool stopped doing Non-Imm on 15/1/2014).

Then again the London site still says "Furthermore, foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry." Which we all know got scrapped a long time ago.

 

The website is vague.

Who over 50 but under 65 for example would be receiving a State Pension?

They accept any form of income or proof of funds in a UK bank.

 

Personally I had to show the equivalent of 200,000THB in my UK account (3 month Visa duration) £4,000 approx.

 

Don't believe everything you read.....proof below.

[daveAustin]

I'm hear you op, it can be a major headache compared with more 'normal' places like Singapore who are a bit more switched on. Of course, it can be done, but one is forever jumping through hoops or having to quickly adapt to new rules etc. Sometimes, it just ain't worth the hassle. Someone already said it; at the end of the day they'd rather just the tourists in than full time foreigners. Heard as much direct from the horse's mouth - lieutenant of CM Imm several years ago - basically asking when I will be going back to my own country... and had a good relationship with her, polite all round. Loved up folk who are all-in here just don't see it or are possibly in denial. It does have its pluses, of course, fantastic place, but sometimes it is just a hassle.

[dentonian]

14 minutes ago, Gary A said:

 

It's difficult to get an extension if you don't have the visa to start with.

 

Yes, but it isn't a 'retirement visa'. There is no such Visa.

You can obtain a Non Imm O Visa for the purpose of changing to an extension of stay based on retirement from a local Immigration office within Thailand.

 

There isn't a Thai Embassy/Consulate in the world that issues a Retirement Visa.

It's a wrongly used term and does not describe what someone holds in their passport. 

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, dentonian said:

Don't believe everything you read.....proof below.

That was just before things were changed in the UK. Also you got it at the honorary consulate in Liverpool.

A first at the consulates it was just multiple entry non-o visas but evolved to single entries the consulates could no longer issue.

[dentonian]

Hull were stopped issuing anything other than Tourist Visas about 2 years ago.

Liverpool were allowed to continue issuing Non Imm O SE Visas up until at least April this year because my friend had one issued there at that time. In Sept another friend applied at Liverpool, but it was forwarded to London.

 

Both are under 65, not receiving state pensions, not married, but do receive private Pensions, so have proof of income.

If you clearly state your intention is to retire in Thailand, and have the financial proof, London can issue a SE Non Imm O at their discretion.