Costs of living in Thailand

[Gary A]

4 hours ago, zeichen said:

I think the problem that happens is that most people don't really live by a budget.  What they think they actually spend ends up being a lot more than that after the year. A monthly budget is only a fraction of a yearly budget because of the hidden costs of things.

 

you also have huge start up costs.

 

You will spend a minimum of 200k baht in your first month more if you want a car or other comforts. 

 

For all the morons spouting off 45k baht a month for an apartment, get realistic with the thread. The OP is talking about a budget of 50k baht a month. he is not looking for an upper class lifestyle. He is looking at a middle class simple existence.

 

 

My rule of thumb is that whatever you earn in your country for the year would be the equivalent of what you would spend to live here a month in baht.  Example if you earn 30k USD a year, you would comfortable live on 30k baht a month. If you earn 50k dollars a year, you would live on 50k baht a month. 

 

Have at least 1 million baht security for emergencies that you don't touch.  Try to save at least 10k baht a month from your current pension, because you will have health problems, accidents, need new clothes, etc at some point. If you spend 50k baht a month and that is all you have what happens when you need a little extra for emergencies.

 

There are many wonderful things to see and do that are free. There are bargains to be found and there are many people who will call you a cheap charlie for living humble.  Tell them to FOFF. Its easy online to brag how high brow you are, but really all people are just existing within their own budget. 

 

Good luck and always have an exit strategy.

 

I agree that startup costs will likely be higher than you think. I was careful and kept a spreadsheet for a number of months to see exactly where I was at after I retired. I hate budgets and have not had to worry about expenses or budgets since then. I'm happy to say that my bank account grows every year while I live exactly as I wish. I was priced out of my health insurance when I was 65 years old. I have enough of a nest egg to pay what the limits of my policy would have paid.  I am content.

[gemguy]

1800 US dollar a month would be more than enough if you live like you point out in your OP and stick to that agenda and live a simple lifestyle existence.

Mind you though ...while that sounds about correct ...there are many ways to entertain yourself and many distractions..so to speak..... that begin to create more and more expenditures and before you know it you are spending more than you had anticipated.

You will find out sooner or later what I mean...but if you were to choose to live in any number of smaller cities in the Esarn region of the country then 1800 US dollars a month would be more than enough and you could save money if you lived only half of the way the Thais live.

A room per month can be very cheap and on the order of only 2000 to 3000 baht a month If your comfortable with that ) and after that ....your need food ...which is also cheap in those regions while you could get yourself a good bike and peddle around everywhere you want to go and be healthy at the same time.

If Thai people knew you have 1800 dollars per month ( 60,000 plus baht a month ) most of them would be envious as they would consider themselves rich as compared to others if they had that much income per month.

So yeah...pick a nice and sceneic city in the Esarn area and live their for cheap and maybe you will not be the type of person who gets restless easily or bored too quickly and just putter around making new friends and become part of the community at large.

Edited January 2, 2017 by gemguy

[gamini]

On 12/31/2016 at 5:38 PM, sanemax said:

It costs 1200 Baht per day to live in Chiang mai

1500 Baht per day in Bangkok 

1700 Baht per day in Koh Samuii

1450 Baht per day in Pattaya

1550 Baht per day in Pukett

 

This is what it might cost you. But you are not everyone. I would imagine that TV members come from all walks of life. Much would depend on if you are married and have children or not, whether your wife is Thai or a foreigner. It would also depend how old  you are because as you get older you spend more money on medicine and medical fees.

[david555]

This would be the favorite topic for the golfer elite on P.A.forum to jumpin with their high budget needed in the range of 125000/ 150 000 a month ......as they are doiing now in a topic from a guy about living basic on 20000 baht....they are feeling great....bragging up to all who defend 65000 can be a good living on  ???

[Elkski]

Interesting thread.   I have read many and always those that say 30 k is ok and others who need 100 k.   

 

What would the penalties be for home brewing?    I detested most of the beers available.    But would barely even be available?  Much less malted and I can't imagine hops can grow in the Willamette valley and Thailand?

[Elkski]

I mean barley.    Big lack of good micro breweries IMHO. 

[catman20]

11 hours ago, jpinx said:

I'd refer you to the discussion about Health insurance here...

 

and here...

 

and your point is????????????

[Don Mega]

On 1/1/2017 at 10:38 PM, Naam said:

not for everybody. according to that estimator i should be spending less than 20% what i actually spend.

 

Yeah according to that calculator iam  spending 27k a month renting/buying a car.

[catman20]

11 hours ago, jpinx said:

Of which items the Healthcare will cost by far the most - potentially enough to send you back to your home country.

 

point taken BUT you have to think positive, i know men here in their 80s no problems i also knew men in their late 50s died here, insurance covered them but it did not change anything for those poor chaps. booze and pussy are a daily or weekly source of entertainment for most people and you can control that expense. health insurance will not send you back to you home land unless you have a really serious problem and then its normally to late because the airlines will not agree to fly you when you are seriously ill. your putting the fear of god into this poor man.

[Ireland32]

On 12/31/2016 at 2:38 AM, sanemax said:

It costs 1200 Baht per day to live in Chiang mai

1500 Baht per day in Bangkok 

1700 Baht per day in Koh Samuii

1450 Baht per day in Pattaya

1550 Baht per day in Pukett

 

Move to Isaan, much cheaper

[lopburi3]

1 hour ago, catman20 said:

and your point is????????????

Suspect that one persons expense for Health Care may not be what the next person pays or is able to even get.  Your age is a major factor and your health another (as insurance here often ends when you most need it and avoids covering anything that they might be able to consider pre-existing conditions - almost to the point of being born eliminates the need to pay for anything as that caused all your ills.)  Many expats come from countries where this is not a concern - and indeed it can be quite inexpensive for many treatments here - but if we do live to old age there is a good chance we will need more treatment than our ancestors and this tends to get expensive.  Although there often is relatively low cost treatment available here remember the cheaper option is not always the course you want to sail for longer life - all too often it entails waits that can have very negative effects.  

[zeichen]

It costs 1200 Baht per day to live in Chiang mai

1500 Baht per day in Bangkok 

1700 Baht per day in Koh Samuii

1450 Baht per day in Pattaya

1550 Baht per day in Pukett

On 1/2/2017 at 6:19 AM, gamini said:

This is what it might cost you. But you are not everyone. I would imagine that TV members come from all walks of life. Much would depend on if you are married and have children or not, whether your wife is Thai or a foreigner. It would also depend how old  you are because as you get older you spend more money on medicine and medical fees.

 

I think this poster was giving a very rough estimate. It is a good ball park figure for a middle class existence.  If you factor rent, food, transportation, entertainment, utilities, clothing.

 

Yes of course people can spend a lot more or a lot less depending on their situation, but it is a reasonable guide for those who are new coming here to see what they might expect to spend.

 

The only thing I hate about these threads is the d*ck measuring and constant bragging how much or little people can spend. One guy is bragging how he has a 4 bedroom place. yeah, you win.  Every person who is single needs four bedrooms.

 

I wish when these threads popped up people spent more energy helping the OP than giving such contrary and argumentative posts.

 

Using the Thai tax standards: under 15k baht a month, you are living a poor lifestyle.  15-30k baht a month you are living a lower middle class lifestyle.  30-60k baht a month you are living a middle class lifestyle.  60-150k baht a month you are living an upper middle class lifestyle.  Beyond that sky is the moon. 

 

At 50-60k baht a month, you could afford to hire a maid to clean a few times a week, you could eat out most nights or have food delivered. You could eat typical western food most nights, you could drive a car, and live in a reasonable sized condo in town or a larger house or apartment outside of the city center.  Or you could rent a cheap 2k baht room, eat boiled rice and fish, and fresh veggies, walk or ride a bike everywhere, sit in the park and read books 6 hours a day, and save all of your pension for when you die. 

[Krataiboy]

On 12/31/2016 at 5:38 PM, sanemax said:

It costs 1200 Baht per day to live in Chiang mai

1500 Baht per day in Bangkok 

1700 Baht per day in Koh Samuii

1450 Baht per day in Pattaya

1550 Baht per day in Pukett

 

 

Potentially, a handy guide. But is the source reliable - and what is the money being spent on (rent, food, clothes, etc?)  

 

Some detail would be helpful.

[JB300]

As lots of people have commented, it depends on where & what kind of lifestyle you live...

My planned Budget (which I make sure is less than my available spends) is roughly:-
- Rent/utilities/mobile/internet etc... 25,000
- Groceries 15,000
- Misc Expenses (local travel, laundry, haircut, stuff) 1,000
- Health Insurance 5,000
- Entertainment/Eating out etc... 20,000
- Hobbies (mine is Travelling) 30,000
Add in 4,000 for Visa expenses (cheaper if using retirement extension of stay but not far off a 1million TE over 20 years) & you get to 100,000.

My Budget was based around £2,000 pm but this only buys 88,000THB at the moment, fortunately I have assets in Singapore so switched to a Budget of s$4,000 per month, but this does highlight how FX changes can hurt you (original £2k was giving me 110k THB at 55:1 so a 22k pm drop).

Other thing to watch out for is inflation, you're 52 at 3% inflation you'll need approx £1,850 to maintain £1,500 purchasing power when you're 59, approx £2,300 when you're 66

[JAFO]

@ the OP.

There is much good information in this and other threads like it. KenK mentioned  earlier on that outside of the financial means its where he prefers to live (like me). That's a very important part. If you do not want to be here you will spend a ton of money to cover that fact up.

 

One thing to also keep in mind is, Yes we all want to retire early(me included) but one has to consider this very carefully. When not at work one will have a tendency to spend more as they have more free time. You are not likely going to sit in a hammock until they burn you.  

 

In my opinion ( as I have learned) there are 2 parts to the cost of living equation here;

 

1) The "Cover living expenses" part. 

 

2) "How much is my free time going to cost me" part? 

 

The 2nd one can be a huge unknown and a real issue later if not considered beforehand. Of course it entirely depends on the individuals make up, but regardless it cannot be ignored. Retiring without a plan or a list of hobbies to partake in is a recipe for some serious angst after the 1st year of living here wears off. I recommend you list what you like to do where you are now and plan on wanting to do a few of them here in Thailand and consider those costs. Also figure that maybe a few of them you will drop and not do but you will likely start to go a bit stir crazy and want to pick up something here and that cost could vary significantly depending on what it is. Point I am trying to make is, my "cost of living here" expense is easily covered. In fact it is quite low. However my hobbies (up to this point) are not cheap at all.  Don't try and kid yourself that you will just sit around, best to be upfront with yourself and realistic. Just something to keep in mind.

 

 

[Goldbear]

I know foreigners that, if they had your 66,000 baht per month, they would think that they won the lottery.

 

Congrats on your early retirement. 

 

 

 

 

[jasonsamui55]

On 12/31/2016 at 11:11 PM, Ahab said:

Probably not a bad ballpark estimate. The countryside can be a bit cheaper.

 

Thats definitely on the super cheap side for Koh Samui. 

[jasonsamui55]

On 1/1/2017 at 1:15 PM, transam said:

Really, can you post a breakdown....?

 

Easy. Thats a normal daily dinner bill at a not so special or average restaurant for my family in Koh Samui.

[jasonsamui55]

On 1/1/2017 at 5:24 PM, SaintLouisBlues said:

Seriously? I have friends living off Sathorn, and other living around Phra Kanong who are paying 30K for 110 sq metre 3-bedroom and 100 sq metre 2-bedroom

And I know people living off Sathorn paying 150k+ per month to rent a 2 bedroom place. You get what you pay for...

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 hour ago, jasonsamui55 said:

And I know people living off Sathorn paying 150k+ per month to rent a 2 bedroom place. You get what you pay for...

Maybe but I've visited both of my friends and they're over the moon. They believe that in comparison they're getting far more value than what they pay for. They've now both been a few years now and have no plans to move

[laislica]

9 hours ago, JAFO said:

@ the OP.

There is much good information in this and other threads like it. KenK mentioned  earlier on that outside of the financial means its where he prefers to live (like me). That's a very important part. If you do not want to be here you will spend a ton of money to cover that fact up.

 

One thing to also keep in mind is, Yes we all want to retire early(me included) but one has to consider this very carefully. When not at work one will have a tendency to spend more as they have more free time. You are not likely going to sit in a hammock until they burn you.  

 

In my opinion ( as I have learned) there are 2 parts to the cost of living equation here;

 

1) The "Cover living expenses" part. 

 

2) "How much is my free time going to cost me" part? 

 

The 2nd one can be a huge unknown and a real issue later if not considered beforehand. Of course it entirely depends on the individuals make up, but regardless it cannot be ignored. Retiring without a plan or a list of hobbies to partake in is a recipe for some serious angst after the 1st year of living here wears off. I recommend you list what you like to do where you are now and plan on wanting to do a few of them here in Thailand and consider those costs. Also figure that maybe a few of them you will drop and not do but you will likely start to go a bit stir crazy and want to pick up something here and that cost could vary significantly depending on what it is. Point I am trying to make is, my "cost of living here" expense is easily covered. In fact it is quite low. However my hobbies (up to this point) are not cheap at all.  Don't try and kid yourself that you will just sit around, best to be upfront with yourself and realistic. Just something to keep in mind.

 

 

 

An excellent post.

I would also suggest not having roots for the first year but travel to major cities in different areas and rent somewhere for a month.

Then explore the area and make notes about the good and the bad.

This will bump up the startup costs but it will allow the OP to learn much more about life in Thailand and help him to make an informed choice of where to settle.

Life on the coast is vastly different to life inland and it's good to have places that you like to visit and stay for a week or two for a change of scenery (or away from the smoke).

Living a single life can be very lonely and lead to stir crazy or foolish relationships.....

We've traveled to many cities and seen the expat bar life which might be OK for a while but might become like living in a dead end street full of gossips.......

 

I actually did retire early, bought a motor home and traveled in Europe with my then English g/f.

We liked Ireland and France but finally settled on the south of Spain before buying our own place. Mostly because of the warmer weather.

The beach was near but major hospitals were an hour's drive away, meaning you have to be able to drive....

When the g/f and I split up, I moved to the big city where all the facilities are to hand and within walking distance.

Also a much bigger catchment area for meeting people and making friends.

Major shops, an airport, parks, doctors, opticians, dentists restaurants, bars, night clubs, the beach etc.

Also other places to visit a short drive away

I've already found out that health insurance in Thailand is a no no once you hit 70.

Anyway, preexisting conditions are excluded by about 70, and by then, most of us have preexisting conditions.....

Being a resident of Spain gives us virtually free health cover, having to pay only 10% of the cost of any drugs from the pharmacy.

Really good to see someone look before he leaps and there have been some great pieces of advice on this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Savilesghost]

On 01/01/2017 at 0:42 PM, kenk24 said:

 

Visa cost is so minimal, that I barely consider it - transportation is discretionary spending and I was just listing my average fixed living expenses.. sure, I get a haircut every couple of months at 50 baht per... anything else you want to know? I will give you the phone number of my accountant... and since I was responding to Gary, I listed the expenses that he was discussing... but yes, electric and water and the bill from my accountant are actually the only bills I have, other than tax bills if you want to call it that... 

I note you make no mention of medical insurance in your rebuttal, dont want your accountants phone number, not that i believe you have one to start with 

[1FinickyOne]

23 minutes ago, Savilesghost said:

I note you make no mention of medical insurance in your rebuttal, dont want your accountants phone number, not that i believe you have one to start with 

 

I self insure on the medical. The few policies I looked at do not seem to provide much protection on the upside and seem to run the risk of easy cancellation... I was just kidding about giving you my accountants phone number, though I do not see why it is a big deal to have one. Been with the same small firm since 1990. Great people. 

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

 

I self insure on the medical. The few policies I looked at do not seem to provide much protection on the upside and seem to run the risk of easy cancellation... I was just kidding about giving you my accountants phone number, though I do not see why it is a big deal to have one. Been with the same small firm since 1990. Great people. 

There's a bunch of threads about Insurance.  I mentioned them earlier in this one....

[1FinickyOne]

8 minutes ago, jpinx said:

There's a bunch of threads about Insurance.  I mentioned them earlier in this one....

 

Thanks JPINX - I retired fairly early and made the long term decision to self insure. I have looked at some of the insurance threads. I think this is and will be a big issue for many retirees as they get on in years. Medical costs, once very reasonable, have been rising. I think many have not adequately prepared and maybe some of the insurance is not much help either. 

[jpinx]

44 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

 

Thanks JPINX - I retired fairly early and made the long term decision to self insure. I have looked at some of the insurance threads. I think this is and will be a big issue for many retirees as they get on in years. Medical costs, once very reasonable, have been rising. I think many have not adequately prepared and maybe some of the insurance is not much help either. 

cigna do an annual policy well into old age and it's not ridiculous if you accept deductibles and cost-sharing (with a cap). https://www.cignaglobal.com/

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/953121-health-insurance-what-to-watch-out-for/#comment-11319669

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by jpinx

[1FinickyOne]

23 minutes ago, jpinx said:

cigna do an annual policy well into old age and it's not ridiculous if you accept deductibles and cost-sharing (with a cap). https://www.cignaglobal.com/

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/953121-health-insurance-what-to-watch-out-for/#comment-11319669

 

 

Hi Jpinx - your comments from the thread... 

 

It is a minefield and none of them want to pay out on a claim unless they can see an endgame where you either recover completely, or pop your clogs. They dread the long, drawn-out medical conditions.

 

I guess all of that has been why I have decided to self insure - I don't mind high deductibles and I am not familiar with how well they pay out, but I guess I have seen enough exposes of companies that too easily refuse and then you have to fight for what you paid for and that when you are ill and least able to fight. 

 

And you know, I don't blame the insurance companies for being expensive for older people. Unless we get hit by a bus, most people are going to run into expensive medical at some point. I really wonder how well most expats have planned. And most of these policies have upper limits, so, if really serious or lingering illness - - what happens?? 

 

[Gary A]

Some people think that their health insurance covers most everything and they don't worry. I would advise them to carefully read their policies. For instance, I was horrified to learn that since I take a drug to control my blood pressure, nothing associated with cardiac or circulatory problems was covered because it is preexisting.  Also the insurance company raised my rates every year until at age 65, I was essentially priced out. The policy limit was a million two hundred fifty thousand baht per occurrence. I can cover those limits myself. The facts are that at or even before age 65, your insurance becomes too expensive to be worth the money.

 

Also I have posted that my cost of living is quite low and that we live a comfortable life. I should have explained that we pay no rent, vehicle payments and owe nothing to anyone. Also there are no children. It cost several million baht to get into this position.

 

My wife pretty much stays in debt with a mortgage on farm land. Over the 12 years we have been together, she has accumulated more than 65 rai. I have no idea how much she makes off her farms and I don't care as long as her income meets all her expenses. I can't say that I understand why she keeps working and buying farmland, but that is up to her. She has no children to leave anything to so it is likely she will die working rather than relaxing and taking it easy.

[jpinx]

10 hours ago, kenk24 said:

 

Hi Jpinx - your comments from the thread... 

 

It is a minefield and none of them want to pay out on a claim unless they can see an endgame where you either recover completely, or pop your clogs. They dread the long, drawn-out medical conditions.

 

I guess all of that has been why I have decided to self insure - I don't mind high deductibles and I am not familiar with how well they pay out, but I guess I have seen enough exposes of companies that too easily refuse and then you have to fight for what you paid for and that when you are ill and least able to fight. 

 

And you know, I don't blame the insurance companies for being expensive for older people. Unless we get hit by a bus, most people are going to run into expensive medical at some point. I really wonder how well most expats have planned. And most of these policies have upper limits, so, if really serious or lingering illness - - what happens?? 

 

Agreed.  I was surprised to see Cigna say they cover cancer, but I am having trouble getting the entire policy wording out of them to be able to analyse their stance.  Too many payout cases are decided by them at the time, making it hard to predict outcomes, and not enough feedback from claimants to make sense.  This means it's still a minefield and I don't blame you for self-insuring, but you need a very big pot of gold for that.

[1FinickyOne]

24 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Agreed.  I was surprised to see Cigna say they cover cancer, but I am having trouble getting the entire policy wording out of them to be able to analyse their stance.  Too many payout cases are decided by them at the time, making it hard to predict outcomes, and not enough feedback from claimants to make sense.  This means it's still a minefield and I don't blame you for self-insuring, but you need a very big pot of gold for that.

 

This is really an expansive topic if you get into it - there is the theoretical planning and then there is facing a reality that we cannot anticipate. That X factor of not knowing how you might react in a foxhole - will you be a hero or run for your life?

 

I have oft heard people describe themselves as "survivors" - well, of course, so far, we all are who are breathing, but I am not really a fighter. When I was 48, they thought I had cancer and I had a 6 month scare, which turned out ok in the end, but my first reaction was just to leave for Hawaii and pop pain killers when it got bad and not have Drs. and hospital beds in my life... they talked me into one operation to take out the suspicious area, but I told them if it was cancer, I did not want chemo or anything... just pain killers and a beach. Turned out not to be cancer, but I am not sure my philosophy has changed. My situation has changed, as I am raising a kid... 

 

I don't know how you can trust them to pay out if you can't trust them to present a plain English version of what they will cover you for... my cynical side has the contract saying, we will cover you for everything, as long as you don't get sick - then we have the right to cancel...