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Netanyahu calls for pardon of convicted soldier

 

 

JERUSALEM: -- Israel’s Prime Minister has joined calls to pardon a soldier convicted of manslaughter for shooting dead a wounded Palestinian.

 

Benjamin Netanyahu said on social media it was a “difficult and painful day” following the verdict in the court case which has polarised the country.

 

Sergeant Elor Azaria faces up to 20 years in prison. He is to be sentenced next Sunday. The military court found him guilty, dismissing arguments that he thought the Palestinian posed a danger even though he was lying wounded on the road.

 

The case has sparked anger. Supporters regard Azaria as a hero while others including top military figures say his actions do not reflect the values of the Israeli Defence Forces.

 

The incident was captured on video. It took place in Hebron in the occupied West Bank. Last March Azaria was an army medic serving in the Israeli-occupied city of Hebron when two Palestinians carried out the stabbing of an Israeli soldier. Hebron has been a longtime flashpoint of violence, and the incident occurred during a wave of Palestinian street attacks on Israelis.

 

One of the two assailants was shot dead by troops. The other was shot and wounded. Eleven minutes later, as the wounded man, Abd Elfatah Ashareef aged 21, lay on the ground incapacitated, Azaria shot him in the head with an assault rifle.

 

The parents of Ashareef said after the court’s verdict that Azaria deserves a life sentence for what amounts to the execution of their son.

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2017-01-05

[keith101]

This was premeditated murder not manslaughter and should have been convicted as such and to say he should be pardoned by the PM is ridiculous and beyond belief .

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, keith101 said:

This was premeditated murder not manslaughter and should have been convicted as such and to say he should be pardoned by the PM is ridiculous and beyond belief .

 

I think the prosecution's main consideration was securing a conviction, therefore the lesser manslaughter charge. If one reads the actual verdict it pretty much throws away all the defense team's arguments, and criticizes their conduct.

 

With regard to Netanyahu's call for pardon, yes - a new low there. Not too surprising, as he often goes for whatever populist position on sale, but still. Interestingly enough, his Minister of Defense, often seen as more hawkish, opined that the verdict should be accepted even it's not to his liking.

 

There are, as I understand, two routes for pardon - one by appealing to the President (lengthier and more conditions involved) or through the military court system (swifter, but broadly speaking, IDF command was not supportive of the defense position).

[ilostmypassword]

What made this incident different from others is that it was clearly recorded on video.  Any cases of Israeli soldiers being prosecuted in similar cases that weren't recorded on video?  I actually don't know the answer to this one.

[cooked]

If it had been a Palestinian that did this he would have received a reward and praise from Hamas.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

What made this incident different from others is that it was clearly recorded on video.  Any cases of Israeli soldiers being prosecuted in similar cases that weren't recorded on video?  I actually don't know the answer to this one.

 

So which one is it? Either you know about other cases or you don't.

 

There were others, of course, but not many. Not, in general, something which the IDF can be proud of there. But then again, if it was up to some of the regular posters, any shooting of a Palestinian would end up in a conviction, no matter the strength of evidence.

 

[ilostmypassword]

25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

So which one is it? Either you know about other cases or you don't.

 

There were others, of course, but not many. Not, in general, something which the IDF can be proud of there. But then again, if it was up to some of the regular posters, any shooting of a Palestinian would end up in a conviction, no matter the strength of evidence.

 

How much clearer could I be?  I said and I quote myself "I actually don't know the answer to this one."  Do you only ask questions when you already know the answer?

[Andaman Al]

3 hours ago, cooked said:

If it had been a Palestinian that did this he would have received a reward and praise from Hamas.

Pure conjecture, as it is half of Israel IS praising and supporting this soldier, and some even want to reward him, including Netanyahu. So what is your point exactly?

[optad]

Even when they try to be 'just' in Israel, backlash. Justice is so unfashionable.

 

Moral. Stay away. Got it wrong in 48 and this is where we have progressed too. 

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

How much clearer could I be?  I said and I quote myself "I actually don't know the answer to this one."  Do you only ask questions when you already know the answer?

 

Either you know enough to determine that this case is different than others (stated as your opening sentence), and thereby implying knowledge - or you don't (which was the faux question bit). Try harder.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, kmj said:

 

Back to the case, even in times of war his actions would have been illegal...

 

Well, it isn't exactly peace time either. But yes, any way you look at it, he's guilty. Pretty much what the verdict says.

[Morch]

41 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Pure conjecture, as it is half of Israel IS praising and supporting this soldier, and some even want to reward him, including Netanyahu. So what is your point exactly?

 

No conjecture at all. Hamas regularly congratulated and celebrated even the killing of Israeli civilians. With the Fatah, it's usually both generalized condemnation and praise, depending on venue. With regard to public support on Israel, doubt it's "half" - and even the support is not all praise, but more calls to go easy on him. Can't say that's much of a moral high ground.

[ilostmypassword]

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Either you know enough to determine that this case is different than others (stated as your opening sentence), and thereby implying knowledge - or you don't (which was the faux question bit). Try harder.

Talk about paranoia. Or perhaps the better word is defensiveness.  All I meant were cases where Israeli soldiers had shot Palestinian attackers in dodgy circumstances that were not recorded on video. I don't keep meticulous track of such things.  I know enough to know that there have been cases where such allegations have been made but not whether or not there had been trials of Israeli soldiers.  I assumed that a reasonable person would understand that it's unlikely that most incidents where such a thing could have occurred would be recorded on video. The law of averages being what it is.  Apparently, I'm going to need legal counsel the next time I pose a perfectly innocent question with you lurking in the wings.

Edited January 5, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Talk about paranoia. Or perhaps the better word is defensiveness.  All I meant were cases where Israeli soldiers had shot Palestinian attackers in dodgy circumstances that were not recorded on video. I don't keep meticulous track of such things.  I know enough to know that there have been cases where such allegations have been made but not whether or not there had been trials of Israeli soldiers.  I assumed that a reasonable person would understand that it's unlikely that most incidents where such a thing could have occurred would be recorded on video. The law of averages being what it is.  Apparently, I'm going to need legal counsel the next time I pose a perfectly innocent question with you lurking in the wings.

 

Talk about this not being your first post in a related topic and having an idea of where you stand. Nothing to do with either paranoia or defensiveness, just disdain for the usual attempts to milk any such topic.

 

 

[geriatrickid]

10 hours ago, keith101 said:

This was premeditated murder not manslaughter and should have been convicted as such and to say he should be pardoned by the PM is ridiculous and beyond belief .

 

Have you read all of the evidence presented in court? The evidence did not support premeditated murder, since the  accused did not plan in advance a murder. Understand the legal terms  first before you use them.

 

No one has said  he should be pardoned  by the PM  for the simple reason that the PM cannot pardon anyone.

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Pure conjecture, as it is half of Israel IS praising and supporting this soldier, and some even want to reward him, including Netanyahu. So what is your point exactly?

 

Half of Israel is not supporting the man. The IDF certainly is not. Yes, the  convicted reservist has support from his  family and from their  friends. This is  part of the arab culture. It is to be expected, And yes,t he man is of arab origin. His religion is jew, but he is culturally an arab and this is how they behave in that region.

[Thorgal]

 

Have you read all of the evidence presented in court? The evidence did not support premeditated murder, since the  accused did not plan in advance a murder. Understand the legal terms  first before you use them.

 

No one has said  he should be pardoned  by the PM  for the simple reason that the PM cannot pardon anyone.

It's premeditated murder with intention to kill. Read execute. It was a headshot.

An execution can never be manslaugther. It's murder.

The soldier has formed the intent to kill and has had time, however brief, to reflect on the matter.

Video footage proves that he came closer to the unconscious victim, gave his helmet to another soldier, unlocked and charged his weapon, aimed at the victims head and shot him dead.

The evidences are on the video footage.

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[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

It's premeditated murder with intention to kill.

 

 

Wrong. Without deliberation or premeditation is manslaughter.

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

[Thorgal]

 

Wrong. Without deliberation or premeditation is manslaughter.

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Was the Palestinian victim executed ? Yes or no ?

execution

ˌɛksɪˈkjuːʃ(ə)n/

noun

1.

the carrying out of a plan, order, or course of action.

"he was fascinated by the entire operation and its execution"

synonyms: implementation, carrying out, accomplishment, performance, effecting, bringing off, bringing about, achievement, carrying off, carrying through, completion, enactment, enforcement, discharge, prosecution, engineering, attainment, realization, fulfilment; perpetration

"the execution of the plan"

2.

the carrying out of a sentence of death on a condemned person.

"the execution of juveniles is prohibited by international law"

synonyms: capital punishment, the death penalty, being put to death, killing; More

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[Thorgal]

 

Half of Israel is not supporting the man. The IDF certainly is not. Yes, the  convicted reservist has support from his  family and from their  friends. This is  part of the arab culture. It is to be expected, And yes,t he man is of arab origin. His religion is jew, but he is culturally an arab and this is how they behave in that region.

Quote from link :

"A poll published on Wednesday by Israel's Channel 2 television showed that 67 per cent of respondents favour a pardon for the soldier."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-elor-azaria-case-man-arrested-inciting-violence-judges-a7511141.html

Israeli Arab population counts for almost 20%.

Some 47% of the 67% poll were non-Arabs...

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[dexterm]

11 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

What made this incident different from others is that it was clearly recorded on video.  Any cases of Israeli soldiers being prosecuted in similar cases that weren't recorded on video?  I actually don't know the answer to this one.

Your question partly answered here in Amnesty International Reports....

 

"There have been previous accusations that Israeli forces killed wounded Palestinian attackers who no longer posed a threat.

In a memorandum sent to the Israeli authorities in September 2016, human rights group Amnesty International highlighted at least 20 cases of apparently unlawful killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. In at least 15 of these cases those killed were deliberately shot dead, despite posing no imminent threat to life."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/netanyahu-calls-pardon-convicted-soldier-azaria-170104190028634.html

 

Israel/OPT: Pattern of unlawful killings reveals shocking disregard for human life

"Nearly a year on from a bloody spike in violence in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT) Israeli forces continue to display an appalling disregard for human life by using reckless and unlawful lethal force against Palestinians, Amnesty International said today." [26 Sept 2016]

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2016/09/israel-opt-pattern-of-unlawful-killings-reveals-shocking-disregard-for-human-life/

[cooked]

8 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Pure conjecture, as it is half of Israel IS praising and supporting this soldier, and some even want to reward him, including Netanyahu. So what is your point exactly?

My point, exactly, is that Palestinian TV transmits several times a day encouraging children, yes CHILDREN, as well as adults to kill Jews. They celebrate the death of their brain washed children as martyrs guaranteed instant admission to paradise. This isn't conjecture, I am well informed and not just by evil Zionist conspirators. http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=479  for instance.

If the Jews glumly accept the fact that they are at war and that people die in wars, Palestine thinks that they have a divine right and obligation to kill Jews, as do all true Muslims.

[dexterm]

Congratulations, the Israeli justice system, in securing a conviction for manslaughter. I personally think the man is a cold blooded psychopath, who thought he could get away with murder in the culture of impunity in the IDF at the time.

 

He has had a fair trial. The prosecution completely demolished his excuses and ever changing story. The man has been found guilty by his military peers.

 

"The judges went through every shred of evidence the defence put through for Azaria, the 20-year-old who maintained throughout the trial that he was innocent as charged.

However, what was said time and time again throughout the 2.5-hour judgment was that Azaria's accounts didn't add up."

read on for his litany of failed excuses..
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/netanyahu-calls-pardon-convicted-soldier-azaria-170104190028634.html

 

Israel at the moment has earned itself some brownie points.

 

So my question is: what good in the cause of peaceful relations between Israelis and Palestinians would be served by pardoning this convicted killer? It would blatantly send the wrong message that even if you have been found crystal clear guilty of extra judicial killing, it's OK anyway. Because the killer is an Israeli Jew and the victim merely a Palestinian.

The two communities would see this obvious message of incitement which would lead to more violence.

And so would the rest of the world, undermining any kudos Israel has gained in even bringing this trial and conviction.

 

Why pander to a convicted murderer who deserves not an ounce of sympathy, when it may lead to more violence and deaths and exposure of Israel's hypocrisy?
He did the crime; let him do the time.

 

From purely pragmatic security considerations, what's the point of pardoning him? It would be a travesty of justice, but where Netanyahu is concerned maybe he has a different agenda.

[cooked]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Congratulations, the Israeli justice system, in securing a conviction for manslaughter. I personally think the man is a cold blooded psychopath, who thought he could get away with murder in the culture of impunity in the IDF at the time.

 

He has had a fair trial. The prosecution completely demolished his excuses and ever changing story. The man has been found guilty by his military peers.

 

"The judges went through every shred of evidence the defence put through for Azaria, the 20-year-old who maintained throughout the trial that he was innocent as charged.

However, what was said time and time again throughout the 2.5-hour judgment was that Azaria's accounts didn't add up."

read on for his litany of failed excuses..
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/netanyahu-calls-pardon-convicted-soldier-azaria-170104190028634.html

 

Israel at the moment has earned itself some brownie points.

 

So my question is: what good in the cause of peaceful relations between Israelis and Palestinians would be served by pardoning this convicted killer? It would blatantly send the wrong message that even if you have been found crystal clear guilty of extra judicial killing, it's OK anyway. Because the killer is an Israeli Jew and the victim merely a Palestinian.

The two communities would see this obvious message of incitement which would lead to more violence.

And so would the rest of the world, undermining any kudos Israel has gained in even bringing this trial and conviction.

 

Why pander to a convicted murderer who deserves not an ounce of sympathy, when it may lead to more violence and deaths and exposure of Israel's hypocrisy?
He did the crime; let him do the time.

 

From purely pragmatic security considerations, what's the point of pardoning him? It would be a travesty of justice, but where Netanyahu is concerned maybe he has a different agenda.

Cold blooded psychopath? Sounds like a soldier that has been at war. Sure, he lied, sure he's guilty as hell and he doesn't deserve a pardon, that would definitely be a mistake. Israel has a shoot to kill policy probably because they don't want Israeli hostages to be taken in prisoner exchange deals.

He was following that policy and got caught. The next time these terrorists will be 'dead on arrival', things will be dome  more discreetly, that's all that will change.

[Docno]

4 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Wrong. Without deliberation or premeditation is manslaughter.

 

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/manslaughter

Not sure that you can eliminate deliberation from this case given that the Palestinian no longer posed a threat and had been lying incapacitated on the ground for a long period of time before the killing. Manslaughter usually applies when one kills in the heat of the moment. Hard to make that apply here. Where I'm from, this would be second degree murder... no long term planning, but clearly an intent to kill and no 'heat of the moment'. 

[dexterm]

34 minutes ago, cooked said:

Cold blooded psychopath? Sounds like a soldier that has been at war. Sure, he lied, sure he's guilty as hell and he doesn't deserve a pardon, that would definitely be a mistake. Israel has a shoot to kill policy probably because they don't want Israeli hostages to be taken in prisoner exchange deals.

He was following that policy and got caught. The next time these terrorists will be 'dead on arrival', things will be dome  more discreetly, that's all that will change.

His peers, military judges who presumably understand what it's like to be a soldier, examined and dismissed every single one of the killer's excuses. Yours is a new one not mentioned in the trial;  that the convicted killer, while surrounded by dozens of heavily armed IDF and fanatical settler supporters, was afraid Israeli hostages might be taken by an injured, unarmed Palestinian. Your theory doesn't hold much water.

 

But I agree: I am sure in the past extra judicial killings have been committed more discreetly, and possibly as a result of this conviction will be perpetrated more circumspectly in future. Or, hopefully, it may send a message to IDF soldiers that this behavior is plain wrong.

 

Of course, if he is pardoned the message to the "most moral army in the world" will be very clear:  we don't even need excuses to kill Palestinians.

[ilostmypassword]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Talk about this not being your first post in a related topic and having an idea of where you stand. Nothing to do with either paranoia or defensiveness, just disdain for the usual attempts to milk any such topic.

 

 

So being sly and insinuating and not forthright is my modus operandi?  I defy you to find any posting of mine that does that.  But all of a sudden, on this topic, I go all coy?  I've noticed that every time you don't have a good factual answer for something or a comment makes you uncomfortable, you resort variously to questioning motives and outright character assassination.  Quite a character flaw there.

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinian terrorist had stabbed another Israeli soldier 11 minutes before he was shot - hardly "a long time". No wonder so many people want leniency for the Sergeant.

[Andaman Al]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

The Palestinian terrorist had stabbed another Israeli soldier 11 minutes before he was shot - hardly "a long time". No wonder so many people want leniency for the Sergeant.

so lets say the New York Police capture a man that 10 minutes earlier killed someone. The prisoner is now incapable of further action. Do the police A) Hand him in to face the judicial process of law or  B )  Wait 10 minutes shoot him in the head and then drop a knife near his body? Which one would you expect as a citizen of a supposed country with law and order?

 

Waiting for the inevitable pivot and spin.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Andaman Al

[Cook my sock]

I still remember when Tom Hurndall got shot by an Israeli sniper. As the evidence mounted on the marksman, his story changed so many times. I think he did 6 yrs for that murder.