Refugees in Greece and Serbia forced to endure sub-zero temperatures

[overherebc]

I worked in and around Damascus when it was one of the most tolerant cities in the whole area to other religions. I can remember seeing on the same street or near enough a mosque a synagoge and other places of worship. I enjoyed my time there and the people were mostly friendly.

When ISIS or whatever started taking over the local population as far as I'm concerned made no or very little effort to defend anything or their way of life until it was too late. I don't think the oil companies like Shell and Total had a lot to do with that. In both cases they paid some very good salaries and wages to the the local people who worked for them. However once the locals managed to get an office job in 99% of cases they decided that was the end of their need to do anything and many would disappear for week and return just to check their money was going in the bank.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

...and complains he doesn't get enough while using a new I-pod and smoking at the same time.....

 

Sorry but this is enough for me to know you do not want to open your eyes. You understand that the benefits you are entitled are not from the money you paid at the time, but from the active people paying tax nowdays in UK, rtight? ironically, the immigration economical balance has always been positive in UE and UK and guess what? a part of your benefits come from the taxes on product bought by those "illegal immigrants"

If you are fed up to see your country "invaded" by immigrants, petition your government to stop meddling in wars which create those migration flux.

 

And the money they buy those products with is given to them.

They don't work and produce anything.

Edited January 11, 2017 by overherebc

[DavidVincent]

Under Assad Damascus and Syria was multicultural, even catholic and jews. However ISIS didn't arrive in Syria from nowhere...Guess who helped them rise? Syrian revolution with moderate rebels? what a joke!

As i worked for Total i can assure you the expatriates are well paid, not the locals. Don't you think it is quite strange that all the countries at war nowdays are the ones with precious raw material/oil and other things? 

Anyway I mark my point : migrants to Europe in their very vast majority do not come to enjoy the benefits of the country they come to, but flee countries torn by war and corruption. If you believe they come to not work and live so well you are just one of the guys who believe  far right lies.

 

6 minutes ago, overherebc said:

 

And the money they buy those products with is given to them.

So you think they wil buy a 500$ ipad and not eat for a month?

As I mentioned before : migration brings more money than it cost. Look for the numbers and numerous studies.

[overherebc]

Point out how much money is brought into a country, say UK, by one man who arrives,  ( illegal immigrant ) with nothing and is given shelter food and money to spend all of which is coming from the coffers of that country.

No doubt there will be a study that proves it, but remember as much as you believe in studies I believe studies are written to justify the result that has already been decided on.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, pigeonjake said:

and yet again, still no women and children,

its a joke, get to england at all cost,

 

Check out the content at the UNHCR link I provided above. In addition you may recall the Europol report last year which talked to the disappearance of approx 10,000 child refugees; most likely trafficked by organised crime gangs, A part of the response has been try to  provide secure accommodation for children in  camps in Greece, hopefully they will not be wandering around. 

[DavidVincent]

5 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Point out how much money is brought into a country, say UK, by one man who arrives,  ( illegal immigrant ) with nothing and is given shelter food and money to spend all of which is coming from the coffers of that country.

No doubt there will be a study that proves it, but remember as much as you believe in studies I believe studies are written to justify the result that has already been decided on.

Are you telling me this is a conspiracy theory to prove illegal immigration has a positive impact on economy? lol...

Illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

 

Spain reaps large benefits from legal and illegal immigration

http://www.workpermit.com/news/spain-reaps-large-benefits-legal-and-illegal-immigration-20070518

 

The truth about the people and numbers in loud and furious migration debate

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/01/calais-illegal-immigrant-uk-facts

 

this is for your immigrants claiming benefits :

Illegal immigrants can't claim benefits:

https://fullfact.org/news/illegal-immigrants-cant-claim-benefits/

 

Benefits for migrants?

https://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-myth-of-migrants-flocking-to-britains-soft-touch-benefits-system/

 

Well I know you won't read it or tell me it is not the truthh or something like this because your opinion is based on your fellings and not fact...but if one day you want to know the truth and not what you believe...

[sweatalot]

53 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

Under Assad Damascus and Syria was multicultural, even catholic and jews. However ISIS didn't arrive in Syria from nowhere...Guess who helped them rise? Syrian revolution with moderate rebels? what a joke!

As i worked for Total i can assure you the expatriates are well paid, not the locals. Don't you think it is quite strange that all the countries at war nowdays are the ones with precious raw material/oil and other things? 

Anyway I mark my point : migrants to Europe in their very vast majority do not come to enjoy the benefits of the country they come to, but flee countries torn by war and corruption. If you believe they come to not work and live so well you are just one of the guys who believe  far right lies.

 

So you think they wil buy a 500$ ipad and not eat for a month?

As I mentioned before : migration brings more money than it cost. Look for the numbers and numerous studies.

I am not sure that migration brings money. But I am sure that migration brings danger, conflict and suffering  if the migrants come from a culture / religion that is incompatible with the European cultures  and is known for not integrating but for taking over (in the past witn "fire and sword")

If you don't believe this look into the islamic countries and see how "multicultural" they are. How many christian churches? How many other religious groups? And what are they doing to those islamic people - if any - who want to change their religion? I agree, some of the refugees are suffering in their home country and need help - but trying to integrate them will not work. And letting them in - and they will not change - is highly dangerous for the Western countries and will make their people suffer, too.

I feel sorry for those suffering people. But it is no unlikely that one day they will bite the hand that saved them - examples galore.

Edited January 11, 2017 by sweatalot

[overherebc]

41 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

Are you telling me this is a conspiracy theory to prove illegal immigration has a positive impact on economy? lol...

Illegal immigrants benefit the U.S. economy

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

 

Spain reaps large benefits from legal and illegal immigration

http://www.workpermit.com/news/spain-reaps-large-benefits-legal-and-illegal-immigration-20070518

 

The truth about the people and numbers in loud and furious migration debate

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/aug/01/calais-illegal-immigrant-uk-facts

 

this is for your immigrants claiming benefits :

Illegal immigrants can't claim benefits:

https://fullfact.org/news/illegal-immigrants-cant-claim-benefits/

 

Benefits for migrants?

https://leftfootforward.org/2014/10/the-myth-of-migrants-flocking-to-britains-soft-touch-benefits-system/

 

Well I know you won't read it or tell me it is not the truthh or something like this because your opinion is based on your fellings and not fact...but if one day you want to know the truth and not what you believe...

 

Reading through those one point I noticed common to them is the respective dates of the data they seem to be based on. As early as 2005 in one case. Spain. Since then the Spanish economy has crashed and is only starting to recover, slightly.

We are talking about a whole different thing here, we are talking about today, now.

The biggest majority now are a good bit different to people who some years ago came with the intention of working. The majority of the people crossing in boats are now younger men looking for an easy life with a few escaping IS  members intent on trouble.

[lungbing]

7 hours ago, 4737 Carlin said:

They haven't been 'forced to endure' anything. They chose to invade Europe - where they are unwanted and unwelcome.

At first they were welcome, but they abused that welcome.

[sead]

15 hours ago, DavidVincent said:

Yeah, old big belly farangs in Pattaya know better about life and why one shouldn't leave his own country...what a joke!

Well old big belly farangs probably worked 40-50 years and paid taxes, raised a couple of kids and helped his family. What old big belly farangs do with their retirement money shouldnt concern others. The taxes i have paid since i was 16(now 46) i thought would benefit my family, children and pension in my country. Unfortunately they are raising the pension age every 10 years. So i guess i will enjoy my hard earned money when im 72 or dead. There are still 11 countries in EU that havent received any migrants. Sweden has received 170,000. Think we would be much more happier if we divided them and only received 17000.

[sead]

12 hours ago, sweatalot said:

I am not sure that migration brings money. But I am sure that migration brings danger, conflict and suffering  if the migrants come from a culture / religion that is incompatible with the European cultures  and is known for not integrating but for taking over (in the past witn "fire and sword")

If you don't believe this look into the islamic countries and see how "multicultural" they are. How many christian churches? How many other religious groups? And what are they doing to those islamic people - if any - who want to change their religion? I agree, some of the refugees are suffering in their home country and need help - but trying to integrate them will not work. And letting them in - and they will not change - is highly dangerous for the Western countries and will make their people suffer, too.

I feel sorry for those suffering people. But it is no unlikely that one day they will bite the hand that saved them - examples galore.

It depend on where this peple are coming from. The muslims from Bosnia are not the same as those from Syria. Those muslims from Bosnia doesnt wear Niqab( some are ofc) and can greet with an handshake, Can look a stranger in the eyes and talk to anyone. The men from Syria are the family providers. Their culture is totally different. The women cant go out alone. The women cant look another man in the eyes nor shake their hands. That means she cant never work anywhere, not as cashier or 95% other work related with direct customer contact. So a family of 6 only the man is going to work. If hes 45 or over the chance are very small that even he is going to ever work and contribute to the wellfare system. Not even their own brothers like Qatar, Emirates or any other arabic countries want them.

[F4UCorsair]

14 hours ago, DavidVincent said:

Under Assad Damascus and Syria was multicultural, even catholic and jews. However ISIS didn't arrive in Syria from nowhere...Guess who helped them rise? Syrian revolution with moderate rebels? what a joke!

As i worked for Total i can assure you the expatriates are well paid, not the locals. Don't you think it is quite strange that all the countries at war nowdays are the ones with precious raw material/oil and other things? 

Anyway I mark my point : migrants to Europe in their very vast majority do not come to enjoy the benefits of the country they come to, but flee countries torn by war and corruption. If you believe they come to not work and live so well you are just one of the guys who believe  far right lies.

 

So you think they wil buy a 500$ ipad and not eat for a month?

As I mentioned before : migration brings more money than it cost. Look for the numbers and numerous studies.

 

 

That old chestnut again.

 

I recall when the Australian government, left of course, was saying that every migrant creates four jobs.   No problem fixing the unemployment problem then.......1,000,000 unemployed, bring in 350,000 'migrants', and there are 1.4 Million jobs, so we wouldn't have enough people for the extra 50,000 positions!!!

 

The truth is that 85% of those coming from middle eastern countries are still on welfare 5 years after arriving.   And that is a FACT!!!

[F4UCorsair]

14 hours ago, overherebc said:

Point out how much money is brought into a country, say UK, by one man who arrives,  ( illegal immigrant ) with nothing and is given shelter food and money to spend all of which is coming from the coffers of that country.

No doubt there will be a study that proves it, but remember as much as you believe in studies I believe studies are written to justify the result that has already been decided on.

 

 

There is no doubt that the 'professionals' who write these reports, within the terms of reference that are so confined, there can only be one conclusion reached, that which the commissioning authorities want to see, and disseminate to the gullible, or perhaps in 2017 the not so gullible, public.

Edited January 12, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[DavidVincent]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

That old chestnut again.

 

I recall when the Australian government, left of course, was saying that every migrant creates four jobs.   No problem fixing the unemployment problem then.......1,000,000 unemployed, bring in 350,000 'migrants', and there are 1.4 Million jobs, so we wouldn't have enough people for the extra 50,000 positions!!!

 

The truth is that 85% of those coming from middle eastern countries are still on welfare 5 years after arriving.   And that is a FACT!!!

No it is not...but you know it.

Anyway economically speaking any migrant who spend money (even if it was money given by a government) is a money which helps economy, but you know it also. So let's agree to disagree. 

As for :

15 hours ago, sweatalot said:

  if the migrants come from a culture / religion that is incompatible with the European cultures  and is known for not integrating but for taking over (in the past witn "fire and sword")

So you re a threat for the thai cultural heirtage and as you are from a different culture you bring threat...you probably do not speak/write thai fluently neither...

[billd766]

22 hours ago, DM07 said:

Repeating the -and proven wrong- BS over and over again, doesn't make it right! 

 

Yes I am old.

 

Yes I am fat.

 

Yes I chose to live in Thailand.

 

No I don't live in Pattaya but in rural Khampaeng Phet.

 

NO the Thai government has not given me even 25 satang nor supported me in any way.

 

Did I expect them too?  NO.

 

Why would I expect another country to support me at that countries expense?

 

If fact if I cannot support myself, my wife or my son I would be deported to my country of origin at MY own expense and only be allowed back as  a tourist IF I had the funds.

Edited January 12, 2017 by billd766
Added extra text

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, DavidVincent said:

Having been in more than 4 countries in Africa for work and for french companies, as well as having been close to middle east refugees the last year I can assure you those people are not here to "profit" or leech on western countries.

90% of them leave a country for one they know nothing about. They leave behind them family, friends,...basically their life to come here.

They do not cross the sea on small boats, knowing them or their kids could die during the travel to profit.

Have a look at the civil wars in Africa, have a look at the history of Afghanistan, the history of Iraq, Libya, Syria..Can you assure me the western countries are for nothing in the crumbles you can see in these countries?

In Africa the french and Belgium companies are really happy the countries they work in are corrupted. They can exploit misery and make the people work in atrocious conditions, without any thought about human life and do not give a sh!t about what may happen the day after. The "franceAfrique" is not dead neither. Franc CFA is also a way to steal from Africa and maintain the countries dependent of their former western "masters"...

 

I said that more than one time, I am tired to repeat myself while you are not genuinely interested..if you are then tell me what you think of the last 30 years of war in middle east orchestrated by western countries, go have a look at the political and economical history of african countries...then you will know.

But I know it is hard to convince someone who do not want to listen...

Please explain why they choose to go to Europe, rather than a culturally similar country to their own?

Please explain why, if genuine refugees, they expect to transit Europe to countries that are far beyond the first safe country they come to?

Please explain how, if they fled with nothing to save their lives, they can afford to pay the vile people smugglers, and if they were at risk of death, why they abandoned their families to their presumably certain deaths?

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, sead said:

Well old big belly farangs probably worked 40-50 years and paid taxes, raised a couple of kids and helped his family. What old big belly farangs do with their retirement money shouldnt concern others. The taxes i have paid since i was 16(now 46) i thought would benefit my family, children and pension in my country. Unfortunately they are raising the pension age every 10 years. So i guess i will enjoy my hard earned money when im 72 or dead. There are still 11 countries in EU that havent received any migrants. Sweden has received 170,000. Think we would be much more happier if we divided them and only received 17000.

It wouldn't stay at 17000 per country. There are millions all looking for a better life.

[DM07]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Yes I am old.

 

Yes I am fat.

 

Yes I chose to live in Thailand.

 

No I don't live in Pattaya but in rural Khampaeng Phet.

 

NO the Thai government has not given me even 25 satang nor supported me in any way.

 

Did I expect them too?  NO.

 

Why would I expect another country to support me at that countries expense?

 

If fact if I cannot support myself, my wife or my son I would be deported to my country of origin at MY own expense and only be allowed back as  a tourist IF I had the funds.

Remind me again: from which war torn hellhole did you flee to Thailand?

 

[DavidVincent]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please explain why they choose to go to Europe, rather than a culturally similar country to their own?

Please explain why, if genuine refugees, they expect to transit Europe to countries that are far beyond the first safe country they come to?

Please explain how, if they fled with nothing to save their lives, they can afford to pay the vile people smugglers, and if they were at risk of death, why they abandoned their families to their presumably certain deaths?

Please explain why they choose to go to Europe, rather than a culturally similar country to their own?

Answer : most of the similar cultural countries are in the same situation 

Please explain why, if genuine refugees, they expect to transit Europe to countries that are far beyond the first safe country they come to?

Because they hope for a better life, not a worse one (we could ask why expats choose Thailand instead of Alaska or Moldavia)

Please explain how, if they fled with nothing to save their lives, they can afford to pay the vile people smugglers, and if they were at risk of death, why they abandoned their families to their presumably certain deaths?

Most of the time they sell all they have to be able to pay the trip from sharky guys. They may also have not enough money/goods to sell to be able to pay for the whole family and therefore send a man, most of the time young as they are more able to find a job, instead of a kid, a mother with kids without ressources or their grand-ma.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Remind me again: from which war torn hellhole did you flee to Thailand?

 

What relevance to the topic does your sidetrack about expats in Thailand have? No expat in LOS arrived on a people smuggler's boat and demanded that the Thai people support them.

[Shawn0000]

On 11/01/2017 at 11:47 AM, overherebc said:

 

If I had to write the headline I would also twist things to something like.

Illegal economic migrants get free handouts while local entitled people suffer and have to prove they are entitled.

 

Yes, but they would never give that job to a bizarre denier of war who is oblivious to the international agreements stating that being a refugee is not illegal, nor would they give the job to someone who not twists, but lies, and states that people not being helped are just because that suits their twisted self centred agenda.

[DM07]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What relevance to the topic does your sidetrack about expats in Thailand have? No expat in LOS arrived on a people smuggler's boat and demanded that the Thai people support them.

I was answering to a post, in which the poster bragged about how he managed his life to well and he chose to live in Thailand.

Care to read?

[DavidVincent]

 

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

What relevance to the topic does your sidetrack about expats in Thailand have? No expat in LOS arrived on a people smuggler's boat and demanded that the Thai people support them.

Because the first ones who spit on the illegal migrants are also most of the time the same one living in Thailand without knowing more than a few sentences in thai (what a good exemple of integration) and some live on benefits while here instead of trying to find their way in their own countries, because they hope for a better life, because they left their country which they love and want to protect but from far away, because they think they worth more than the the migrants, because they think all the illegal migrants are here to steal and rape while most of them are just scared and lost...because when there is no way to make them understand the ratio risk/reward for the migrant is a farcry of what they may or may not dream when migrating....

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, DavidVincent said:

Please explain why they choose to go to Europe, rather than a culturally similar country to their own?

Answer : most of the similar cultural countries are in the same situation 

Please explain why, if genuine refugees, they expect to transit Europe to countries that are far beyond the first safe country they come to?

Because they hope for a better life, not a worse one (we could ask why expats choose Thailand instead of Alaska or Moldavia)

Please explain how, if they fled with nothing to save their lives, they can afford to pay the vile people smugglers, and if they were at risk of death, why they abandoned their families to their presumably certain deaths?

Most of the time they sell all they have to be able to pay the trip from sharky guys. They may also have not enough money/goods to sell to be able to pay for the whole family and therefore send a man, most of the time young as they are more able to find a job, instead of a kid, a mother with kids without ressources or their grand-ma.

 

You appear to be talking about people seeking a better life by paying vile people traffickers to take them to rich countries in expectation of jobs etc.

The OP is about refugees, and your post is off topic.

 

BTW Saudi Arabia is not in a similar situation and is very rich. It is also culturally similar. Why do they not go there? 

[DM07]

By the way: I saw the documentary, from which the picture in OP is taken.

To those who complain about the lack of women and children in "these camps" and among those "alleged refugees" (who - of course only send their young men to infiltrate European societies, hollow them out with Sharia and become terrorists..):

LITERALLY the passage before AND after this picture, shows women and children in this same camp, freezing!

Just sayin'...

[Shawn0000]

On 11/01/2017 at 3:47 PM, overherebc said:

 

Since the 70's I have worked in most of the middle east countries from Syria all the way west through Egypt to Libya and the other 'oil rich states'.

I was often asked why do you come here to work when you can stay in UK and your government will give you everything you need, house and money etc and you won't need to work.

That belief still remains and that's why they want to be in Europe.

 

If that were the case then they would not on average succeed at a higher rate and raise children who do better on average at school, would they?   No, they would become the benefits class who are actually by a far higher ratio British born people.  Your imagination has gotten the better of you, the scrounges are the British, not the immigrants.  The immigrants pay far higher taxes than they take back in benefits and help feed the British benefits scrounges.

[DavidVincent]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You appear to be talking about people seeking a better life by paying vile people traffickers to take them to rich countries in expectation of jobs etc.

The OP is about refugees, and your post is off topic.

 

BTW Saudi Arabia is not in a similar situation and is very rich. It is also culturally similar. Why do they not go there? 

Refugees, so why are you blaming them? How do you think they arrived here?

If you do not know the schism between the two main ideologies of Islam and the hate they have for each other I cannot do anything for you

Edited January 12, 2017 by DavidVincent

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, DavidVincent said:

 

Because the first ones who spit on the illegal migrants are also most of the time the same one living in Thailand without knowing more than a few sentences in thai (what a good exemple of integration) and some live on benefits while here instead of trying to find their way in their own countries, because they hope for a better life, because they left their country which they love and want to protect but from far away, because they think they worth more than the the migrants, because they think all the illegal migrants are here to steal and rape while most of them are just scared and lost...because when there is no way to make them understand the ratio risk/reward for the migrant is a farcry of what they may or may not dream when migrating....

 

Actually everything in that post is off topic. The subject is refugees and no western expat in Thai;land is a refugee.

[Shawn0000]

On 11/01/2017 at 3:47 PM, overherebc said:

 

Since the 70's I have worked in most of the middle east countries from Syria all the way west through Egypt to Libya and the other 'oil rich states'.

I was often asked why do you come here to work when you can stay in UK and your government will give you everything you need, house and money etc and you won't need to work.

That belief still remains and that's why they want to be in Europe.

 

If that were the case then they would not on average succeed at a higher rate and raise children who do better on average at school, would they?   No, they would become the benefits class who are actually by a far higher ratio British born people.  Your imagination has gotten the better of you, the scrounges are the British, not the immigrants.  The immigrants pay far higher taxes than they take back in benefits and help feed the British benefits scrounges.

[DavidVincent]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually everything in that post is off topic. The subject is refugees and no western expat in Thai;land is a refugee.

this is called analogy. It helps in psychology to make someone understand they are blind or their ideas are confused

Edited January 12, 2017 by DavidVincent