17 year old Thai son and the thai army

[Shrek]

Hi,

I'm Graham and age 59 English. I married Kung in 2005 in BKK. Same year we came to live in England. A few weeks later we brought Kungs two little Thai kids from her first marriage then age 5 and 3 to England. In about 2008 they all obtained British citizenship and UK passports.  We have never rescinded their Thai citizenship (although their Thai passports have run out as we always use our British passports.)They have been back to Thailand since for holidays but that's all. Grandparents live in Sakhon Nakhon.

 

Son is now 17 and at college. Next year he  will probably go to Uni in England until 2020. We want the 3 Thai people to retain Thai nationality, we may well  all resettle there later, but son is approaching the age of conscription in Thailand.

 

Any idea what we do? He can barely speak Thai and cant read or write a word of Thai. He has been raised in England.

 

Anyone know the correct thing to do? We don't want to avoid the problem and see him arrested whilst on holiday!

[Scott]

I will move this to the General Section for greater visibility.   It's not really a visa question.  

[PoorSucker]

1. If he goes university he's exempt from the draft.

2. If he's nor registered in a Thai house book he will never be drafted.

3. As he can not speak Thai they don't want him.

4. If he is selected for the draft, donate 5000 baht and he will not be drafted.

[Shrek]

Thanks. He is in the housebook, at grandmas house, so we will wait for the papers to come then  write and tell them he has lived in  th UK for 12 years and doesn't read or write Thai and attach a letter from the University.

[Arkady]

As far as I know, you can get a deferment, if you are in full time study but not an exemption.  I wouldn't be so sure, they would not want someone who is not fluent in Thai but is a native speaker of English.  I am sure they could find all sorts of uses for him, including English conversation classes for the officers' kids, editing English language papers, liaison with visiting foreign military etc, once he has passed basic training and he would pick up Thai fast in the barracks.  It depends on the district you are drafted in how much the donation might be.  In poor districts in Isaan, it is obviously going to be  a lot less than in Bangkok, Phuket, Pattaya etc, and probably more for look krung too.

[anotheruser]

Dress him up in ladyboy clothes and make it convincing. If you don't know how to do this just go to any Robinson's they day he is called in.

[MahasarakhamMitch]

Graham- We are in a near identical situation and are slightly nervous about conscription. My son has done army cadets since he was 14 and we were told by the local amphur in Maha Sarakham that if he has lots of pictures of him in his platoon and has a letter from the Army then he would not need to join the Thai army. I'm not convinced by this advice but we live in hope. If the worst happens I will have to make a donation to the "Generals pension fund" [emoji6]

[NickJ]

Had a patient of mine. A Thai. Reared in Australia.  Got his masters there. Came back. Didn't really speak the language.  His dad thought his going into the army was a good thing. He was panic struck. Went in. As usual. He got a soft post. Showed up on week ends....no big deal.

Village idiots in mymoo ban. Had to go in. Paid a bit. Mowed lawns on the weekends for a year. 

If you want an out it just costs a little.

[Trembly]

1 hour ago, MahasarakhamMitch said:

Graham- We are in a near identical situation and are slightly nervous about conscription. My son has done army cadets since he was 14 and we were told by the local amphur in Maha Sarakham that if he has lots of pictures of him in his platoon and has a letter from the Army then he would not need to join the Thai army. I'm not convinced by this advice but we live in hope. If the worst happens I will have to make a donation to the "Generals pension fund"

Mitch, Graham,

I am a bilingual loog-krueng who has been through this rigmarole and my advice is this : 

One surefire and above board way for your sons to avoid Thai military conscription is for your sons to pass out of basic military training in the west because the Thai legal requirement is that all able bodied men must pass through military training. Thai MOD regs state explicitly that successful completion of basic military training in a foreign military course that is recognised by Thai MOD is grounds for exemption. UK military training most definitely fits into that category as the UK MOD and Thai MOD have long standing links with serving Thai officers regularly sent through the pipeline at Sandhurst, Dartmouth and Cranwell just to be up to date with how the British make baby officers. 

Therefore I would recommend that you get your kids to join the reserves of any colour and stick through it until they pass out of basic training at the very least. Then they can come to Thailand and present their service history and discharge papers to the local sasdi (recruiting sergeant) who will then give them the appropriate exemption papers and close their files.

I know someone who has done this with ACF papers . . . but I would do the AR / RNR / RMR / RAuxAF just to be on the safe side . . .  after all, you can quit the UK reserves at any time with no minimum service requirement so long as you haven't been mobilised for ops, and you can't be mobilised while undergoing full time education. Speaking of education, the UAS / URNU / OTC are all organisations that are designed around university student life that can potentially tick the military training box for your sons.   

Good luck.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Trembly

[TerryLH]

OP, I think your son has several years before he could possibly be conscripted.

[Trembly]

On 1/13/2017 at 11:56 PM, PoorSucker said:

1. If he goes university he's exempt from the draft.

2. If he's nor registered in a Thai house book he will never be drafted.

3. As he can not speak Thai they don't want him.

4. If he is selected for the draft, donate 5000 baht and he will not be drafted.

If he goes to university he can apply for deferment until graduation, at which point he will be eligible to voluntarily enlist via the graduate short-service engagement scheme; since it is voluntary enlistment he will be able to choose between army, navy and air force and it will only be for 6 months.

Regarding language, if they think they can find a use for him they'll take him. If he can understand basic orders they'll take him. As long as he doesn't punch anyone or do anything stupid like spark up a cigarette in front of the Directing Staff they will leave him alone and he will probably get a lot of friendly sympathy for not being able to speak much Thai. 

Conscripts - and the 6 month boys - tend to be given bone jobs because the career soldiers want to keep them out of the way. Unofficially there is a "promising soldier" stream for the conscripts who might be offered an extension of contract and a "damage-control" stream where the NCOs have their work cut out for them robustly mummying the naughty conscripts who don't want to be there and don't give a fork, so if he makes life easy for the NCOs they will go easy on him. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Trembly

[thaibeachlovers]

As I see it, if you want them to keep their Thai citizenship they should learn the language anyway. The older one gets the harder it is to learn a foreign language. 

Secondly, if they don't fulfill their requirements as a citizen, they shouldn't expect to be citizens.

IMO ( as a retired military person ), too many people expect somebody else to protect them from the bad people in the world. IMO ALL citizens should do national service.

[masuk]

On 14/01/2017 at 3:24 PM, Shrek said:

Thanks. He is in the housebook, at grandmas house, so we will wait for the papers to come then  write and tell them he has lived in  th UK for 12 years and doesn't read or write Thai and attach a letter from the University.

My Thai friend didn't have to register until he had turned 20.

 

Seems your son has a year or two to go yet.   Yes, enroll him in University.

[ironbark]

A year in the army might be an interesting "gap year" experience for him and a useful skill in his cv.

[Gandtee]

The sad thing about this post is that the poster's children 'cannot speak a word of Thai'. Thais spend a fortune on trying to have their children learn English. The posters children have missed out on receiving a gift of being able to speak both Thai and English learned from Mum and Dad. I have a friend who is in a similar situation where when his Anglo Thai children come to Thailand they cannot speak a word of Thai to their relatives. My adopted son who we have raised since birth speaks both English and Thai as a native. He is coming up to sixteen and attends a military technical training school as a civilian, but subject to military rules and discipline. He attends military training every saturday morning so will be exempt from conscription. Because of his fluency in English he has already been approached to sign into the military to be an English teacher. I'm sorry that this doesn't answer the poster's question, but as Trembly says they will find a use for your boy and the experience will do him good.

[walterego]

"he can barely speak a word of Thai" I know Thai mothers and perhaps your assessment of his Thai language is not as accurate or is perhaps somewhat understated. He will understand (if not speak (sounds ruined by accent) a very large amount of Thai language because his mother has used it with him since he was an 'ugly' baby (if only in your absences).

Further what is your fear of the Thai military? It is good for every other Thai kid, either that or a Monk.. It will allow him to establish relationships in both countries that he can build a healthy economic future by sharing the best things of each culture.

Further I have to agree with the above post, that if you want to be a citizen you should perform the requirements of citizenship.

best of luck with your boys though, I am sure you will find the right path.

Edited January 19, 2017 by walterego
added "if only in your absences".

[madusa]

On 2017/1/13 at 8:56 AM, PoorSucker said:

1. If he goes university he's exempt from the draft.

2. If he's nor registered in a Thai house book he will never be drafted.

3. As he can not speak Thai they don't want him.

4. If he is selected for the draft, donate 5000 baht and he will not be drafted.

Thailand is Thailand. My friend told me his father didn't like the army and got thing fixed for him. He was never drafted into the army , he is 100 percent thai and he thinks nobody wants to attack Thailand,  attack Thailand for what he said, for the women?

[ThaiWai]

Shame on you for not making them maintain there home language especially when them to maintain citizenship.  It's like they were kidnapped and stripped of their heritage.  You have successfully made two illiterate Thai nationals.

[Jonmarleesco]

On 1/16/2017 at 10:35 PM, Arkady said:

As far as I know, you can get a deferment, if you are in full time study but not an exemption.  I wouldn't be so sure, they would not want someone who is not fluent in Thai but is a native speaker of English.  I am sure they could find all sorts of uses for him, including English conversation classes for the officers' kids, editing English language papers, liaison with visiting foreign military etc, once he has passed basic training and he would pick up Thai fast in the barracks.  It depends on the district you are drafted in how much the donation might be.  In poor districts in Isaan, it is obviously going to be  a lot less than in Bangkok, Phuket, Pattaya etc, and probably more for look krung too.

Well, he isn't Look Krung, is he? My youngest son is. But it seems - and I have yet to check, since no one seems to know anything with any degree of certainty, including his army cadet tutors - that confirmation he is mine (and with an address in the U.K.?) should exclude him from the draft.

 

We'll see. But since he will be going to college and university in the U.K., he will complete his education first, no matter what.

[Jonmarleesco]

12 minutes ago, ThaiWai said:

Shame on you for not making them maintain there home language especially when them to maintain citizenship.  It's like they were kidnapped and stripped of their heritage.  You have successfully made two illiterate Thai nationals.

Made them what? Literate?

Edited January 19, 2017 by Jonmarleesco

[Jonmarleesco]

4 hours ago, walterego said:

"he can barely speak a word of Thai" I know Thai mothers and perhaps your assessment of his Thai language is not as accurate or is perhaps somewhat understated. He will understand (if not speak (sounds ruined by accent) a very large amount of Thai language because his mother has used it with him since he was an 'ugly' baby (if only in your absences).

Further what is your fear of the Thai military? It is good for every other Thai kid, either that or a Monk.. It will allow him to establish relationships in both countries that he can build a healthy economic future by sharing the best things of each culture.

Further I have to agree with the above post, that if you want to be a citizen you should perform the requirements of citizenship.

best of luck with your boys though, I am sure you will find the right path.

'Further what is your fear of the Thai military?' Has he suggested fear? More likely, in common with many of us, it's bemusement that an army with more generals than any other, whose last serious wars were on elephant back, should actually need national service draftees.

 

'It is good for every other Thai kid, either that or a Monk ...' You think? In what way? Apart from keeping them off the street for a couple of years, that is.

[Jonmarleesco]

5 hours ago, Gandtee said:

The sad thing about this post is that the poster's children 'cannot speak a word of Thai'. Thais spend a fortune on trying to have their children learn English. The posters children have missed out on receiving a gift of being able to speak both Thai and English learned from Mum and Dad. I have a friend who is in a similar situation where when his Anglo Thai children come to Thailand they cannot speak a word of Thai to their relatives. My adopted son who we have raised since birth speaks both English and Thai as a native. He is coming up to sixteen and attends a military technical training school as a civilian, but subject to military rules and discipline. He attends military training every saturday morning so will be exempt from conscription. Because of his fluency in English he has already been approached to sign into the military to be an English teacher. I'm sorry that this doesn't answer the poster's question, but as Trembly says they will find a use for your boy and the experience will do him good.

'He attends military training every saturday morning so will be exempt from conscription.' If you mean the army cadet force, I wouldn't assume that. My youngest son is coming up to his third year, and having first understood this to be the case, isn't so sure now; this exacerbated by his having received conflicting information from a variety of sources.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I too am a dad,and i would move heaven and earth to prevent my son from being enlisted in that sadistic egotistic,worthless company of idiots that is called the Thai army.In the event of an invasion or actually having to take up arms against a foe such as the west,they would be decimated within a week.Even if i had to send him back home to avoid his enrollment,i would do so.Your son is precious to you,thats an emotion that thais dont have or understand.keep him well away from a situation,that could end in heartbreak for you and his mum.

[Jonmarleesco]

On 1/18/2017 at 5:59 PM, MahasarakhamMitch said:

Graham- We are in a near identical situation and are slightly nervous about conscription. My son has done army cadets since he was 14 and we were told by the local amphur in Maha Sarakham that if he has lots of pictures of him in his platoon and has a letter from the Army then he would not need to join the Thai army. I'm not convinced by this advice but we live in hope ...'

There seems no agreement on whether or not this is correct, from those who should, presumably, know.

[Gandtee]

1 hour ago, Jonmarleesco said:

'He attends military training every saturday morning so will be exempt from conscription.' If you mean the army cadet force, I wouldn't assume that. My youngest son is coming up to his third year, and having first understood this to be the case, isn't so sure now; this exacerbated by his having received conflicting information from a variety of sources.

He attends a military technical training school five and a half days a week. He does military training during the week in addition to his technical training, plus Saturday mornings. Even so, your comment has urged me to check again. The mysteries of the Orient. Nothing is what it seems.

[bandito]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 11:56 PM, PoorSucker said:

1. If he goes university he's exempt from the draft.

2. If he's nor registered in a Thai house book he will never be drafted.

3. As he can not speak Thai they don't want him.

4. If he is selected for the draft, donate 5000 baht and he will not be drafted.

 Baht 50,000-

[bandito]

On ‎1‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 3:24 PM, Shrek said:

Thanks. He is in the housebook, at grandmas house, so we will wait for the papers to come then  write and tell them he has lived in  th UK for 12 years and doesn't read or write Thai and attach a letter from the University.

 

You have to go to the Amphur where he is registered.

At 17 jears of age he must report for the draft at the Amphur, letter to register or not, he is responsible for registering.

He will get a document when he has to report for the lottery at age 20.

 If he fails to do this or too late in reporting he will be fined, happened to my son.

Since last year the Militairy is actively looking for draft dodgers.

Also for a delay to be drafted he has to go in person to the Amphur and ask the Militairy Officer, responsible for the draft, there.

[bandito]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 10:35 PM, Arkady said:

As far as I know, you can get a deferment, if you are in full time study but not an exemption.  I wouldn't be so sure, they would not want someone who is not fluent in Thai but is a native speaker of English.  I am sure they could find all sorts of uses for him, including English conversation classes for the officers' kids, editing English language papers, liaison with visiting foreign military etc, once he has passed basic training and he would pick up Thai fast in the barracks.  It depends on the district you are drafted in how much the donation might be.  In poor districts in Isaan, it is obviously going to be  a lot less than in Bangkok, Phuket, Pattaya etc, and probably more for look krung too.

 

Exactly.

Also for Bht 30 to 50,000- he can be exempted for the draft, but remember it is highly illegal and should not be mentioned to anyone near or dear.

It is only recently that look krung are eligible for the draft as the Militairy is looking for draftees speaking 2 languages.

Promotion to a higher rank in the Army is not for them.

[Trembly]

13 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

'He attends military training every saturday morning so will be exempt from conscription.' If you mean the army cadet force, I wouldn't assume that. My youngest son is coming up to his third year, and having first understood this to be the case, isn't so sure now; this exacerbated by his having received conflicting information from a variety of sources.

Thai Army cadets (Ror Dor) is indeed one legal way of being exempt from conscription at 18. As stated previously, the legal requirement is for all able bodied males to go through basic military training and the army cadets is a recognised way of doing that. 

That's why it's so popular; go outdoors and play soldiers for one day a week in the last few years of high school and chin off ever having to register for draft. Easy decision for many. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Trembly

[Trembly]

13 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

There seems no agreement on whether or not this is correct, from those who should, presumably, know.

The sasdi was on the right track, but was thin on details. 

Photos aren't enough ("did you get that on camera Staff?"), you need actual service records and a letter of confirmation signed by the commanding officer of your unit.

Edited January 20, 2017 by Trembly