Increase of surcharge on None Thai ATM Cards to 220 baht

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Don't worry...Bangkok Bank increases its fee to Bt220 on 15 Mar 17.   See below fees snapshot from the latest Bangkok Bank fee schedule dated 14 Feb 17.   I expect the Thai Bankers Assn ask their members to all not increase the fee on the same day so as not to give the appearance of collusion.

 

 

What concerns me a lot more than the increase in fee is reducing the number of baht we can get per pull. 

 

Already most are only allowing 20k. I used to be able to grab 40k years ago at AEON. Presently I only know one which allows 30k (TMB). If they drop that to 20k, that effectively increases my fee by over 100 baht. Imagine if they drop this to 10k in the name of security.

 

Most tourists probably don't take out much more than 10k at a time.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

55 minutes ago, tropo said:

What concerns me a lot more than the increase in fee is reducing the number of baht we can get per pull. 

 

Already most are only allowing 20k. I used to be able to grab 40k years ago at AEON. Presently I only know one which allows 30k (TMB). If they drop that to 20k, that effectively increases my fee by over 100 baht. Imagine if they drop this to 10k in the name of security.

 

Most tourists probably don't take out much more than 10k at a time.

Krungsri also has long, and still, allows a max of 30K per withdrawal. CIMB used to, but I'm not sure now with them having closed and changed a lot of their branches.

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Krungsri also has long, and still, allows a max of 30K per withdrawal. CIMB used to, but I'm not sure now with them having closed and changed a lot of their branches.

 

 

I've tried some Krungsri machines without any luck. I see a 30k amount on the menu, but I can't withdraw it. I think it depends on the type of card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

I've tried some Krungsri machines without any luck. I see a 30k amount on the menu, but I can't withdraw it. I think it depends on the type of card.

Their ATMs certainly will dispense 30K for both VISA and MC logo cards, assuming the home country card/account allows that large an amount on a per 24 hour basis.

[zoza]

kasikorn bank in central festival Pattaya state a percentage of withdrawal is deducted if credit/debit card is used in branch= so costs more than 220 baht per transaction.

they will do anything to keep this income stream alive. checked last month.

[Pib]

Krungsri and TMB ATMs dispense up to Bt30K...Bangkok Bank dispenses Bt25K....jsut to give some examples of Thai banks allowing more than Bt20K per ATM pull.  Now of course, you can always run into ATMs that are getting low on cash and they automatically reduce the amount allowed....or ATMs in "high use" areas where the limit has been manually set lower than what that bank's ATMs normally provide in order to keep the ATMs from going dry before the next cash replenishment. 

 

But remember, your "card-issuing bank" (i.e., you bank in farangland)  also sets a maximum amount you can pull per transaction/day  amount.  Like the card may have a $500 equivalent per transaction/day limit which equates to arpprox Bt17,500.   Try to get more than that and the ATM rejection is caused by "your card-issuing bank" not approving the transaction.   And the rejection message on the ATM screen probably will not say some clear like "Over Limit"...it will probably just give some rejection error like Contact Your Card Issuing Bank.  All my farangland debit card have a $1000 per transaction/daily limit which equates to approx Bt35K which means I can get Bt30K pull from Krungsri and TMB ATMs.

 

So many times people blame the Thai ATM (or whatever ATM in the world) for rejecting a transaction when it fact it's the person's card-issuing bank that has blocked the transaction, has a lower amount allowed than the person it trying to get, etc.   So, be sure to know what the the per transaction/per day daily limit is for your card as set by the card-issuing bank.

 

 

[tropo]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Their ATMs certainly will dispense 30K for both VISA and MC logo cards, assuming the home country card/account allows that large an amount on a per 24 hour basis.

 

 

It hasn't with my ATM, with the MC Logo... a debit card without a chip. Works fine in TMB machines for 30k withdrawals.

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by tropo

[ja99]

On 2/23/2017 at 5:40 PM, Pib said:

Yea, I did a 6 figure (in baht) counter withdrawal/cash advance today at a Krungsri Bank branch using a U.S. credit card and debit card. Both cards are no foreign transaction fee cards, the debit card reimburse ATM fees when I use an ATM (no often), the credit card does not have a case advance fee, and I have prepaid the cash advance amount on the credit card to avoid any interest charge.  And Krungsri does not charge any fee for doing this counter withdrawal. I also just had it all deposited in my Krungsri savings account...the money never  touch my hands.   The whole process took about 10 minutes.  And since the branch is right at a Tesco Lotus mall the wife and visit multiple times per week (she went grocery shopping while I did the withdrawal) going to the branch is not out of my way and rarely is there any queue...and when there is a queue I rarely wait more than 5 minutes before my queue number is called.  Today I was immediately serviced.  Easy....no fees...me happy.

And how long do think it will take before Krungsri now get flooded with counter transactions and put a stop to it due to you blurting it out on this forum? One can only hope 711/Big C etc. get savvy and allow cash withdrawals over the counter as Coles/Woolworths do in Australia, for instance. 711 could charge a much smaller fee and still make money.

[Pib]

8 minutes ago, ja99 said:

And how long do think it will take before Krungsri now get flooded with counter transactions and put a stop to it due to you blurting it out on this forum? One can only hope 711/Big C etc. get savvy and allow cash withdrawals over the counter as Coles/Woolworths do in Australia, for instance. 711 could charge a much smaller fee and still make money.

Oh, my goodness, me and others have been talking about cash advance/counter withdrawals at specific Thai banks for years.  Thai banks know what is going on,,..nothing new for them.   Just do a search and you'll find tons of such posts....been going on for years. 

 

You will see in the posts that some branches (of all banks....that is, Bangkok Bank, Krungsri, SCB, whoever) will "not" do counter withdrawals for "debit" card...instead they just point you to their ATM.  However, other branches will do counter withdrawals for debit cards.   No standardization here as to which branches will or will not do counter withdrawals.   And don't expect the small branches in malls to do a counter advance as they may not have the POS machine capability; they will instead point you to their ATM or refer you to a full service branch.

 

Now, banks will do a counter withdrawal for a "credit" card no problem.  But I expect they get few requests for counter withdrawals using credit cards since the great, great majority of credit cards carry a cash advance fee of 3% "and" a foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3%....and interest start accuring from day on the cash advance.  The owner of the card generally know this and I expect its enough fee pain for the person "not" want to use their credit card (if they have a credit card).   But if using their "debit" card with only the typical 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee they will gladly (or maybe reluctantly) use the card for a foreign withdrawal.

 

Once again....nothing new here....been talked about in many posts for many years.  Pretty much like the visa questions that keep get asked and answer over and over and over in posts over the years.   But this is fine...it's how many people get their information by asking the question versus doing a little searching/googling....and some just want confirmation nothing has changed.

[coppywriter]

So, at the end of the day, do we need to pay Thai tax on UK pensions (government/private) that are paid into a UK bank? and only drawn down by an ATM transaction, I am still a bit confused, sorry.....

[ja99]

35 minutes ago, Pib said:

Oh, my goodness, me and others have been talking about cash advance/counter withdrawals at specific Thai banks for years.  Thai banks know what is going on,,..nothing new for them.   Just do a search and you'll find tons of such posts....been going on for years. 

 

You will see in the posts that some branches (of all banks....that is, Bangkok Bank, Krungsri, SCB, whoever) will "not" do counter withdrawals for "debit" card...instead they just point you to their ATM.  However, other branches will do counter withdrawals for debit cards.   No standardization here as to which branches will or will not do counter withdrawals.   And don't expect the small branches in malls to do a counter advance as they may not have the POS machine capability; they will instead point you to their ATM or refer you to a full service branch.

 

Now, banks will do a counter withdrawal for a "credit" card no problem.  But I expect they get few requests for counter withdrawals using credit cards since the great, great majority of credit cards carry a cash advance fee of 3% "and" a foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3%....and interest start accuring from day on the cash advance.  The owner of the card generally know this and I expect its enough fee pain for the person "not" want to use their credit card (if they have a credit card).   But if using their "debit" card with only the typical 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee they will gladly (or maybe reluctantly) use the card for a foreign withdrawal.

 

Once again....nothing new here....been talked about in many posts for many years.  Pretty much like the visa questions that keep get asked and answer over and over and over in posts over the years.   But this is fine...it's how many people get their information by asking the question versus doing a little searching/googling....and some just want confirmation nothing has changed.

Well, lets just hope they don't cancel these counter transactions due to popular demand. Said bank also offer Western Union service at the booth which probably isn't viable due to an even bigger fee/bad exchange rate from one's own WU account?  Not looked into that for a while..

[jimster]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:20 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm betting, the other countries' banks that you mention aren't charging $6+ U.S. per withdrawal, as their Thai counterparts are.

 

BTW, last time I was in Cambodia, most banks there were charging a lesser ATM withdrawal fee, but there was at least one that was charging NO fee on foreign cards. So not everywhere else operates as an anti-competitive monopolistic cartel the same as the Thai banking industry does.

 

 

Yes they are now. As of my last trip to Cambodia last year (I travel there regularly and went multiple times last year) all Cambodian banks are now charging US$4 or US$5 per withdrawal so while this may be marginally cheaper than what Thai banks are charging (unless you have a Union Pay or BCEL Laos card) they will catch up for sure. Canadia bank used to be free but now charges US$4 per withdrawal. Just like there used to be 2-3 banks in Thailand that didn't charge until recently, including AEON but now they do. Times are changing everywhere.

 

In Myanmar, most banks are charging 5000 MMK and some have recently increased this to 6500 MMK per withdrawal, including CB Bank, one of the country's largest. Additionally, their ATM withdrawal limits are much lower than those at Thai ATMs, only allowing 300,000 MMK per withdrawal (about AUD 300, USD 225 or THB 8000). Vietnamese, Indonesian and Lao ATMs also charge foreign cardholders. In this region, only mainland China, Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia so far still don't charge.

 

This information is correct as of December 2016. Unless you have proof of what you claim, your anecdotes are heresay. As per my accurate to the point previous post, where I stated that "Lao, Vietnamese, Cambodian and Myanmar ATMs ALL charge fees with rare exceptions" this still stands.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

44 minutes ago, jimster said:

 

Yes they are now. As of my last trip to Cambodia last year (I travel there regularly and went multiple times last year) all Cambodian banks are now charging US$4 or US$5 per withdrawal so while this may be marginally cheaper than what Thai banks are charging (unless you have a Union Pay or BCEL Laos card) they will catch up for sure. Canadia bank used to be free but now charges US$4 per withdrawal. Just like there used to be 2-3 banks in Thailand that didn't charge until recently, including AEON but now they do. Times are changing everywhere.

 

In Myanmar, most banks are charging 5000 MMK and some have recently increased this to 6500 MMK per withdrawal, including CB Bank, one of the country's largest. Additionally, their ATM withdrawal limits are much lower than those at Thai ATMs, only allowing 300,000 MMK per withdrawal (about AUD 300, USD 225 or THB 8000). Vietnamese, Indonesian and Lao ATMs also charge foreign cardholders. In this region, only mainland China, Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia so far still don't charge.

 

This information is correct as of December 2016. Unless you have proof of what you claim, your anecdotes are heresay. As per my accurate to the point previous post, where I stated that "Lao, Vietnamese, Cambodian and Myanmar ATMs ALL charge fees with rare exceptions" this still stands.

What I posted wasn't hearsay, but rather, my personal experience in traveling to PP. But that was about 2 years ago, so things/fees certainly could have changed since then. As I said, "the last time I was in Cambodia."

 

But nonetheless, based on your own post, it certainly sounds like the general ATM fee for foreign cards in Cambodia still is markedly less than the Thai fee, your report of $4-$5 vs. the current Thai fee of 220 baht/roughly $6.28 U.S.

 

And, even from your post, I'm not hearing any example of any other country in Asia charging higher than the Thai banks' $6.28 U.S. fee, which was the main point/opening sentence of my prior post.

 

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What I posted wasn't hearsay, but rather, my personal experience in traveling to PP. But that was about 2 years ago, so things/fees certainly could have changed since then. As I said, "the last time I was in Cambodia."

 

But nonetheless, based on your own post, it certainly sounds like the general ATM fee for foreign cards in Cambodia still is markedly less than the Thai fee, your report of $4-$5 vs. the current Thai fee of 220 baht/roughly $6.28 U.S.

 

And, even from your post, I'm not hearing any example of any other country in Asia charging higher than the Thai banks' $6.28 U.S. fee, which was the main point/opening sentence of my prior post.

 

 

Even if the fee is a bit less in Cambodia, how much can you withdraw? For example, In Myanmar (according to Jimster), you can only withdraw about USD 220 at a time at a fee of $4.75. That would cost me USD 19 (650 THB) to withdraw the equivalent of 30,000 THB. Ouch!!!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, tropo said:

Even if the fee is a bit less in Cambodia, how much can you withdraw? For example, In Myanmar (according to Jimster), you can only withdraw about USD 220 at a time at a fee of $4.75. That would cost me USD 19 (650 THB) to withdraw the equivalent of 30,000 THB. Ouch!!!

We're mixing apples and oranges here. The main point of his and my fees discussion was re Cambodia, and neither he nor I posted on what the maximum withdrawal amounts might be for Cambodia bank ATMs. (I frankly don't recall).

 

Obviously, it's a somewhat different proposition depending on whether you're a tourist or a resident. If you're a tourist, you probably don't worry about or need to withdraw maximum amounts of ATM cash, but you would still pay the ATM fee, high or low.  If you're a resident, then obviously, yes, you want to get the most money possible for whatever the ATM fee happens to be.

 

[tropo]

48 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

We're mixing apples and oranges here. 

 

 

I disagree. I think we're talking about different varieties of apples.

[Langsuan Man]

On 2/27/2017 at 5:33 PM, coppywriter said:

So, at the end of the day, do we need to pay Thai tax on UK pensions (government/private) that are paid into a UK bank? and only drawn down by an ATM transaction, I am still a bit confused, sorry.....

If you can't tell the difference between a service , which is what getting your UK funds out of a Thai ATM is, and a Thai tax on UK pensions

then it is not surprising that your are confused 

 

[baansgr]

PI 200 php with max withdrawl 10,000

[rickudon]

On 2/27/2017 at 5:51 PM, ja99 said:

  On 2/27/2017 at 5:10 PM, Pib said:

Oh, my goodness, me and others have been talking about cash advance/counter withdrawals at specific Thai banks for years.  Thai banks know what is going on,,..nothing new for them.   Just do a search and you'll find tons of such posts....been going on for years. 

 

You will see in the posts that some branches (of all banks....that is, Bangkok Bank, Krungsri, SCB, whoever) will "not" do counter withdrawals for "debit" card...instead they just point you to their ATM.  However, other branches will do counter withdrawals for debit cards.   No standardization here as to which branches will or will not do counter withdrawals.   And don't expect the small branches in malls to do a counter advance as they may not have the POS machine capability; they will instead point you to their ATM or refer you to a full service branch.

 

Now, banks will do a counter withdrawal for a "credit" card no problem.  But I expect they get few requests for counter withdrawals using credit cards since the great, great majority of credit cards carry a cash advance fee of 3% "and" a foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3%....and interest start accuring from day on the cash advance.  The owner of the card generally know this and I expect its enough fee pain for the person "not" want to use their credit card (if they have a credit card).   But if using their "debit" card with only the typical 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee they will gladly (or maybe reluctantly) use the card for a foreign withdrawal.

Credit cards - not my experience. I was told this previously so tried it out. First 2 banks refused to do counter withdrawal on a credit card. Told use ATM. Third bank said OK - but hit me with a 2% fee which only appeared on the bill. This made it actually more expensive than using the ATM (my credit card is fee free, but doesn't cover ATM provider charges). Maybe there are branches of some banks which will allow it without charging, but maybe not in my town.

[Nowisee]

To put/keep it in perspective.

What are the ATM (out of service, out of branch, out of network) fees in the US?
What are the fees for foreign bank withdraws in Vietnam?  Malaysia? Indonesia?  China?. etc.

 

I really would like to know.

Anyone using a foreign bank debit card in any of those countries ATM machines??

[siam2007]

1 hour ago, Nowisee said:

To put/keep it in perspective.

What are the ATM (out of service, out of branch, out of network) fees in the US?
What are the fees for foreign bank withdraws in Vietnam?  Malaysia? Indonesia?  China?. etc.

 

I really would like to know.

Anyone using a foreign bank debit card in any of those countries ATM machines??

 

Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore: NONE

Cambodia: Canadian Bank - NONE (at least it was like that in late 2015, other Banks do charge fees)

[tropo]

On 3/2/2017 at 2:31 PM, baansgr said:

PI 200 php with max withdrawl 10,000

That would cost me around 600 baht to take out 30k baht equivalent. 220 baht is looking good by comparison. They used to be good about counter withdrawals in the PI, but things do change.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Nowisee said:

To put/keep it in perspective.

What are the ATM (out of service, out of branch, out of network) fees in the US?
What are the fees for foreign bank withdraws in Vietnam?  Malaysia? Indonesia?  China?. etc.

 

I really would like to know.

Anyone using a foreign bank debit card in any of those countries ATM machines??

I was back in the U.S. a few months back, and used an out of network ATM machine. The fee charged for the withdrawal using my U.S. bank card was $3 U.S., the same as it would have been for an accepted VISA or MC logo card from any other country. Different U.S. banks can have somewhat different ATM fee rates (unlike cartel Thailand), but $3 or so is pretty close to the average.

 

But unlike Thailand, the U.S. banks don't discriminate against foreign bank cards in terms of their ATM fees. I happened to use a Wells Fargo ATM, and they would have charged the same $3 fee against me and my card from a different U.S. bank as they would have charged a Thai person using an acceptable VISA or MC logo debit card from Thailand.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just a bit of interesting ATM news, pointing to perhaps a cardless future not too far off, at least in the developed world.

 

But sadly, I'm sure, not a "fee-less" future in Thailand:

 

Quote

 

Just a couple of years ago, there was buzz about using cellphones for ATM transactions. Wintrust Financial was an early adopter, and then the discussion quietly dissipated. But, there’s big news.
 

According to a recent New York Times article, “JPMorgan Chase, which has more ATMs in the United States – 18,000 – than any other bank, has activated this technology on a few hundred machines in four test cities, including Miami and San Francisco. Six thousand more are already upgraded and ready to go.” The New York Times also reports that Bank of America and Wells Fargo plan to introduce cardless options to all their machines by the end of the year.

 

 

https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2017/03/may-longer-atm-card.html

 

[Pib]

On 2/2/2017 at 10:21 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Tried the Bank of China Sathorn branch again yesterday, and everything was back to normal again -- no fee for MC withdrawals, and ATM machine maximum of 30K per withdrawal (assuming your own account allows that much per day). That was with a U.S.-based MC.

I tried a couple of ATM withdrawals from that BoC branch today, using two different U.S. Visa chipped debit cards...from two different U.S. banks. When trying the first card in one of their two ATMs right outside the branch's front door the screen did say I could pull a max of Bt30K.  So, I got through the various screens and entered Bt30K, pressed continued, and then for the next 30 seconds or so I saw nothing but a sold gray screen with a little red X in the upper left hand corner.  

 

Now 30 seconds seems like a lifetime when watching an ATM screen...the ATM was not making any noise....like no activity was happening....I was literally within a few seconds of giving up and walking into the branch to say your ATM ate my card...I want my card back!!!  But then another screen appeared with a strange error message which I can't exactly remember but said something along the lines of: "SW - ...no connection....no reply....IS."   After a few seconds that screen went away and it spit-out my card.

 

OK, I'm brave, I slide over to their other ATM and use my other debit card and experience  a repeat of above.   At this point I don't try again.  Come home and check ibanking at both my U.S. banks to ensure my accounts had not been hit with a charge....no pending or posted transaction appeared for today....no money taken from my accounts.

 

I may give the BoC ATMs another try in a few weeks/month when I'm in the area again. Maybe they just had a major communications problem today as both ATMs would not work with either of my U.S. Visa chipped debit cards.   Parking in the building the branch is located in, I think they call it Bangkok Tower, turned out to be easy and free....no parking fee if there for no more than an hour.   

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

I may give the BoC ATMs another try in a few weeks/month when I'm in the area again. Maybe they just had a major communications problem today as both ATMs would not work with either of my U.S. Visa chipped debit cards.   Parking in the building the branch is located in, I think they call it Bangkok Tower, turned out to be easy and free....no parking fee if there for no more than an hour.  

 

 

 

Pib, I'm not sure the BofC ATMs are compatible with many VISA logo cards. Note the network compatibility stickers on the front of their ATMs. The listing doesn't seem to include the PLUS network, which is what a lot of my VISA debit cards are.

 

But either way, AFAIK, the no-fee deal only applies to MC-logo cards. That's what I've been using ever since I started with them.

 

 

 

[Pib]

That could indeed be the problem.   If the number of network stickers pictured on above BoC ATM accurately reflects the number of networks it interfaces with, it's about half the number of network stickers you see on the typical Thai bank/AEON ATM.  

[rickudon]

The mention of Aeon ATM's high lights a problem i have with Aeon (use them because fee lower). I used to do all my withdrawals from one site in Udon because it had 2 machines and Aeon staff on hand. For years. Then my card stopped working, message illegal transaction or something. Took me a while to realise that they had changed the ATM machines - my card doesn;t work in them any more. Fortunately there are 4 more machines in other parts of Udon, different design, still works. Is it just me having problems? Thais do not.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, rickudon said:

The mention of Aeon ATM's high lights a problem i have with Aeon (use them because fee lower). I used to do all my withdrawals from one site in Udon because it had 2 machines and Aeon staff on hand. For years. Then my card stopped working, message illegal transaction or something. Took me a while to realise that they had changed the ATM machines - my card doesn;t work in them any more. Fortunately there are 4 more machines in other parts of Udon, different design, still works. Is it just me having problems? Thais do not.

Hard to know what's going on with that. First thing I'd do with a problem like that, is to check on the back on your bank card to see what ATM network logo icons are shown (Maestro, Cirrus, Plus, etc.) and then compare those with the network stickers that usually are shown on the front of any ATM machine. If none of them match, that could be why the machine is rejecting your card.

[sweettea21]

I withdraw money from a US card on a weekly basis, pretty sure Bangkok Bank ATM (By far the best exchange rates, too. I find) still charges Baht 200.