President Trump signs order to build Mexico border wall

[jcsmith]

10 minutes ago, dcutman said:

 

Lets try and use some logic here. First of all, just to get air ticket you need a valid visa and passport, witch cost several hundred dollars. Next you need to buy the ticket another several hundred dollars. We are, for the most part talking about poor peasants. The last hurdle will be getting through US immigration.  Please, nobody could be that stupid as to believe even 25% of illegals are flying into the US from anywhere south of the boarder or any where else for that matter.

Lol, man I love how you try to turn fact checked stuff into a conspiracy after you've been caught, so now your telling us that your numbers are right, and the fact checked versions are wrong. Marco Rubio is wrong, please if you are going to make those claims, show us some proof that they are wrong. Show us even an inkling of an argument to prove otherwise.

 

You can get a passport and a flight from Mexico city all the way to Los Angeles for less than $200. From Baja to San Diego is just over $100. And people who are sneaking over the border illegally are usually doing this by paying people to sneak them into the country, or if they can not afford to pay this they may be obligated to do some work when they reach the other side by whoever smuggled them in. It's far safer and more reliable to go the plane route. You aren't going to have to deal with shady individuals in a border crossing, all you need to do is overstay after you get to the other side. That's a lot easier than dealing with the coyotes.

[dcutman]

Just now, stevenl said:

But there you're making a big, big mistake. Illegal immigrants is far from synonamous with poor peasants.

 OMG Really???

If they were rich and doing well in their home county, why would they want to sneak in illegally in the first place. They would have the means to come in legally.

Come on, get past the Trump Bash and lets try and use some common sense here.

[mtls2005]

The Wall portion of his decree is by far the least frightening section.

 

 

EXECUTIVE ORDER

- - - - - - -

BORDER SECURITY AND IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT IMPROVEMENTS

 

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq.) (INA), the Secure Fence Act of 2006 (Public Law 109-367) (Secure Fence Act), and the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 (Public Law 104-208 Div. C) (IIRIRA), and in order to ensure the safety and territorial integrity of the United States as well as to ensure that the Nation's immigration laws are faithfully executed, I hereby order as follows:

 

Section 1. Purpose. Border security is critically important to the national security of the United States. Aliens who illegally enter the United States without inspection or admission present a significant threat to national security and public safety. Such aliens have not been identified or inspected by Federal immigration officers to determine their admissibility to the United States. The recent surge of illegal immigration at the southern border with Mexico has placed a significant strain on Federal resources and overwhelmed agencies charged with border security and immigration enforcement, as well as the local communities into which many of the aliens are placed.

 

Transnational criminal organizations operate sophisticated drug- and human-trafficking networks and smuggling operations on both sides of the southern border, contributing to a significant increase in violent crime and United States deaths from dangerous drugs. Among those who illegally enter are those who seek to harm Americans through acts of terror or criminal conduct. Continued illegal immigration presents a clear and present danger to the interests of the United States.

 

Federal immigration law both imposes the responsibility and provides the means for the Federal Government, in cooperation with border States, to secure the Nation's southern border. Although Federal immigration law provides a robust framework for Federal-State partnership in enforcing our immigration laws — and the Congress has authorized and provided appropriations to secure our borders — the Federal Government has failed to discharge this basic sovereign responsibility. The purpose of this order is to direct executive departments and agencies (agencies) to deploy all lawful means to secure the Nation's southern border, to prevent further illegal immigration into the United States, and to repatriate illegal aliens swiftly, consistently, and humanely.

 

Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the executive branch to:

(a) secure the southern border of the United States through the immediate construction of a physical wall on the southern border, monitored and supported by adequate personnel so as to prevent illegal immigration, drug and human trafficking, and acts of terrorism;

(b) detain individuals apprehended on suspicion of violating Federal or State law, including Federal immigration law, pending further proceedings regarding those violations;

(c) expedite determinations of apprehended individuals' claims of eligibility to remain in the United States;

(d) remove promptly those individuals whose legal claims to remain in the United States have been lawfully rejected, after any appropriate civil or criminal sanctions have been imposed; and

(e) cooperate fully with States and local law enforcement in enacting Federal-State partnerships to enforce Federal immigration priorities, as well as State monitoring and detention programs that are consistent with Federal law and do not undermine Federal immigration priorities.

 

Sec. 3. Definitions. (a) "Asylum officer" has the meaning given the term in section 235(b)(1)(E) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)).

(b) "Southern border" shall mean the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico, including all points of entry.

(c) "Border States" shall mean the States of the United States immediately adjacent to the contiguous land border between the United States and Mexico.

(d) Except as otherwise noted, "the Secretary" shall refer to the Secretary of Homeland Security.

(e) "Wall" shall mean a contiguous, physical wall or other similarly secure, contiguous, and impassable physical barrier.

(f) "Executive department" shall have the meaning given in section 101 of title 5, United States Code.

(g) "Regulations" shall mean any and all Federal rules, regulations, and directives lawfully promulgated by agencies.

(h) "Operational control" shall mean the prevention of all unlawful entries into the United States, including entries by terrorists, other unlawful aliens, instruments of terrorism, narcotics, and other contraband.

Sec. 4. Physical Security of the Southern Border of the United States. The Secretary shall immediately take the following steps to obtain complete operational control, as determined by the Secretary, of the southern border:

(a) In accordance with existing law, including the Secure Fence Act and IIRIRA, take all appropriate steps to immediately plan, design, and construct a physical wall along the southern border, using appropriate materials and technology to most effectively achieve complete operational control of the southern border;

(b) Identify and, to the extent permitted by law, allocate all sources of Federal funds for the planning, designing, and constructing of a physical wall along the southern border;

(c) Project and develop long-term funding requirements for the wall, including preparing Congressional budget requests for the current and upcoming fiscal years; and

(d) Produce a comprehensive study of the security of the southern border, to be completed within 180 days of this order, that shall include the current state of southern border security, all geophysical and topographical aspects of the southern border, the availability of Federal and State resources necessary to achieve complete operational control of the southern border, and a strategy to obtain and maintain complete operational control of the southern border.

 

Sec. 5. Detention Facilities. (a) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately construct, operate, control, or establish contracts to construct, operate, or control facilities to detain aliens at or near the land border with Mexico.

(b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign asylum officers to immigration detention facilities for the purpose of accepting asylum referrals and conducting credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(1)) and applicable regulations and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to applicable regulations.

(c) The Attorney General shall take all appropriate action and allocate all legally available resources to immediately assign immigration judges to immigration detention facilities operated or controlled by the Secretary, or operated or controlled pursuant to contract by the Secretary, for the purpose of conducting proceedings authorized under title 8, chapter 12, subchapter II, United States Code.

 

Sec. 6. Detention for Illegal Entry. The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate actions to ensure the detention of aliens apprehended for violations of immigration law pending the outcome of their removal proceedings or their removal from the country to the extent permitted by law. The Secretary shall issue new policy guidance to all Department of Homeland Security personnel regarding the appropriate and consistent use of lawful detention authority under the INA, including the termination of the practice commonly known as "catch and release," whereby aliens are routinely released in the United States shortly after their apprehension for violations of immigration law.

 

Sec. 7. Return to Territory. The Secretary shall take appropriate action, consistent with the requirements of section 1232 of title 8, United States Code, to ensure that aliens described in section 235(b)(2)(C) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1225(b)(2)(C)) are returned to the territory from which they came pending a formal removal proceeding.

 

Sec. 8. Additional Border Patrol Agents. Subject to available appropriations, the Secretary, through the Commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, shall take all appropriate action to hire 5,000 additional Border Patrol agents, and all appropriate action to ensure that such agents enter on duty and are assigned to duty stations as soon as is practicable.

 

Sec. 9. Foreign Aid Reporting Requirements. The head of each executive department and agency shall identify and quantify all sources of direct and indirect Federal aid or assistance to the Government of Mexico on an annual basis over the past five years, including all bilateral and multilateral development aid, economic assistance, humanitarian aid, and military aid. Within 30 days of the date of this order, the head of each executive department and agency shall submit this information to the Secretary of State. Within 60 days of the date of this order, the Secretary shall submit to the President a consolidated report reflecting the levels of such aid and assistance that has been provided annually, over each of the past five years.

 

Sec. 10. Federal-State Agreements. It is the policy of the executive branch to empower State and local law enforcement agencies across the country to perform the functions of an immigration officer in the interior of the United States to the maximum extent permitted by law.

(a) In furtherance of this policy, the Secretary shall immediately take appropriate action to engage with the Governors of the States, as well as local officials, for the purpose of preparing to enter into agreements under section 287(g) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1357(g)).

(b) To the extent permitted by law, and with the consent of State or local officials, as appropriate, the Secretary shall take appropriate action, through agreements under section 287(g) of the INA, or otherwise, to authorize State and local law enforcement officials, as the Secretary determines are qualified and appropriate, to perform the functions of immigration officers in relation to the investigation, apprehension, or detention of aliens in the United States under the direction and the supervision of the Secretary. Such authorization shall be in addition to, rather than in place of, Federal performance of these duties.

(c) To the extent permitted by law, the Secretary may structure each agreement under section 287(g) of the INA in the manner that provides the most effective model for enforcing Federal immigration laws and obtaining operational control over the border for that jurisdiction.

 

Sec. 11. Parole, Asylum, and Removal. It is the policy of the executive branch to end the abuse of parole and asylum provisions currently used to prevent the lawful removal of removable aliens.

(a) The Secretary shall immediately take all appropriate action to ensure that the parole and asylum provisions of Federal immigration law are not illegally exploited to prevent the removal of otherwise removable aliens.

(b) The Secretary shall take all appropriate action, including by promulgating any appropriate regulations, to ensure that asylum referrals and credible fear determinations pursuant to section 235(b)(1) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1125(b)(1)) and 8 CFR 208.30, and reasonable fear determinations pursuant to 8 CFR 208.31, are conducted in a manner consistent with the plain language of those provisions.

(c) Pursuant to section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(I) of the INA, the Secretary shall take appropriate action to apply, in his sole and unreviewable discretion, the provisions of section 235(b)(1)(A)(i) and (ii) of the INA to the aliens designated under section 235(b)(1)(A)(iii)(II).

(d) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to ensure that parole authority under section 212(d)(5) of the INA (8 U.S.C. 1182(d)(5)) is exercised only on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the plain language of the statute, and in all circumstances only when an individual demonstrates urgent humanitarian reasons or a significant public benefit derived from such parole.

(e) The Secretary shall take appropriate action to require that all Department of Homeland Security personnel are properly trained on the proper application of section 235 of the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 (8 U.S.C. 1232) and section 462(g)(2) of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (6 U.S.C. 279(g)(2)), to ensure that unaccompanied alien children are properly processed, receive appropriate care and placement while in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security, and, when appropriate, are safely repatriated in accordance with law.

 

Sec. 12. Authorization to Enter Federal Lands. The Secretary, in conjunction with the Secretary of the Interior and any other heads of agencies as necessary, shall take all appropriate action to:

(a) permit all officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to have access to all Federal lands as necessary and appropriate to implement this order; and

(b) enable those officers and employees of the United States, as well as all State and local officers as authorized by the Secretary, to perform such actions on Federal lands as the Secretary deems necessary and appropriate to implement this order.

 

Sec. 13. Priority Enforcement. The Attorney General shall take all appropriate steps to establish prosecution guidelines and allocate appropriate resources to ensure that Federal prosecutors accord a high priority to prosecutions of offenses having a nexus to the southern border.

 

Sec. 14. Government Transparency. The Secretary shall, on a monthly basis and in a publicly available way, report statistical data on aliens apprehended at or near the southern border using a uniform method of reporting by all Department of Homeland Security components, in a format that is easily understandable by the public.

 

Sec. 15. Reporting. Except as otherwise provided in this order, the Secretary,within 90 days of the date of this order, and the Attorney General, within 180 days, shall each submit to the President a report on the progress of the directives contained in this order.

 

Sec. 16. Hiring. The Office of Personnel Management shall take appropriate action as may be necessary to facilitate hiring personnel to implement this order.

 

Sec. 17. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

 

DONALD J. TRUMP

THE WHITE HOUSE,

January 25, 2017.

 

[Get Real]

Speechless, but some people probably already have assassination plans.

[dcutman]

Just now, WaywardWind said:

Take it up with him?  You re the guy who said he was keeping his promises.

 

His tax returns will show that he has been gaming the system for decades; his failure to divest is  clear indication that he intends to profit substantially from holding the office of the President and, in fact, has already started to do so.

 

Apparently you see nothing wrong in either.  I find both aspects repugnant.

Well if he was gaming the system, he was doing it legally. Just because you cant see his tax returns, I guarantee Obama had the IRS screen his tax returns screened thoroughly.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, dcutman said:

 OMG Really???

If they were rich and doing well in their home county, why would they want to sneak in illegally in the first place. They would have the means to come in legally.

Come on, get past the Trump Bash and lets try and use some common sense here.

Yes, really. Entering legally does not mean stay legally.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about, are ignoring other people's very justified posts and keep on banging the same, very false drum.

[dcutman]

10 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

You can get a passport and a flight from Mexico city all the way to Los Angeles for less than $200. From Baja to San Diego is just over $100.

So you are telling me anybody can get a flight ticket, fake passport and fake visa  that will get you through US immigration for 200 bucks?

I think we are done with this ridiculous conversation now.

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, dcutman said:

Totally disagree. A 15% remittance fee will pay for the wall as well as bring in future revenue for border security. Of course there are  many other avenues for payment.

Of course there are many avenues for charging individual Mexicans (rather than the Mexican government) for any 'wall'.

 

There are also ways to charge the Mexican government, but I doubt Mexican politicians would admit to this even if true.

 

It would be a vote loser for the Mexican politicians, so even though they may personally benefit financially - they're not about to admit to the population that they (or the population's taxes) paid for the 'wall'!

[jcsmith]

Unless Trump is also going to start denying visas to Mexican citizens (another PR nightmare) they can do that legally. And once they have a visa they could either drive across the border or fly. You can fly from TJ to San Diego for as low as $73.

[simple1]

30 minutes ago, dcutman said:

 OMG Really???

If they were rich and doing well in their home county, why would they want to sneak in illegally in the first place. They would have the means to come in legally.

Come on, get past the Trump Bash and lets try and use some common sense here.

 

Sorry, but head in the sand ain't reality. Most countries have illegals, many of whom are visa over stayers, for some indicative numbers for USA review  post #59 above

[dcutman]

 

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Of course there are many avenues for charging individual Mexicans (rather than the Mexican government) for any 'wall'.

 

There are also ways to charge the Mexican government, but I doubt Mexican politicians would admit to this even if true.

 

It would be a vote loser for the Mexican politicians, so even though they may personally benefit financially - they're not about to admit to the population that they (or the population's taxes) paid for the 'wall'!

OK, but the fact remains, Trump Says Mexico is going to pay for the this wall, and up to this point I have no reason to doubt that. Where or who the money comes from is irrelevant, as long as it comes from a Mexican.

[Jingthing]

My thoughts on this. 

There nothing wrong with border security. 

The Trump Wall is a PR political stunt and Ego Trip of limited practical effectiveness.

He's already long ago backed off from the imaginary continuous tall wall.

There are already sections with walls, some with fences. 

If the U.S. really wants to invest in such a "wall" expansion the U.S. taxpayers should pay for it.

This "Mexico will pay for it" thing paints Mexico as an enemy and demands that they HUMILIATE themselves.

trump is a mentally ill narcissist obsessed with HUMILIATING others (BULLY) and his greatest shame is when he himself is humiliated.

Mexico, our great southern friend, does NOT deserve such abuse.

Mexico and the U.S. were at war before. The U.S. won of course and would again, but why treat our FRIEND like an ENEMY?

 

 

 

[mtls2005]

This is going to be the best wall ever. He know's how to "build things". It's going to be better than China's so-so Wall. I'm already getting tired of "winning".

 

Just wondering if there's enough gold to adequately adorn it, and how large will the TRUMP letters be on it. 

[Chicog]

Clever... get this nonsense splashed all over the front pages which conveniently sends news of his gagging orders and gutting the EPA to the inside pages where they will probably not be noticed.

 

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Of course there are many avenues for charging individual Mexicans (rather than the Mexican government) for any 'wall'.

 

There are also ways to charge the Mexican government, but I doubt Mexican politicians would admit to this even if true.

 

It would be a vote loser for the Mexican politicians, so even though they may personally benefit financially - they're not about to admit to the population that they (or the population's taxes) paid for the 'wall'!

 

14 minutes ago, dcutman said:

 

OK, but the fact remains, Trump Says Mexico is going to pay for the this wall, and up to this point I have no reason to doubt that. Where or who the money comes from is irrelevant, as long as it comes from a Mexican.

You seriously think Mexicans are going to entirely pay for any 'wall' - and American tax payers are not going to pay a dime?

[jcsmith]

Mexico has restated they will not pay for the wall: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/25/politics/mexico-president-donald-trump-enrique-pena-nieto-border-wall/index.html

 

Quote

Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto said Wednesday his country "will not pay for any wall," defying the claims US President Donald Trump has made. But he did not cancel his trip planned for the United States next week.

"Mexico does not believe in walls. I've said time again; Mexico will not pay for any wall," he said in a video statement posted to Twitter and translated by CNN from Spanish.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by jcsmith

[dcutman]

21 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Sorry, but head in the sand ain't reality. Most countries have illegals, many of whom are visa over stayers, for some indicative numbers for USA review  post #59 above

Apparently you just stepped into this conversation without reading the entire content.

The original claim, was that 40% of illegal immigrants fly into the US. For that reason a the proposed border wall is and will be ineffective.

I am not disputing there are a large number of visa over stayers that are now illegal, I am merely calling BS on false claims by unreliable and bias sources the original poster cited as fact.

I just cant accept Jorge Ramos's personal opinion, from Mexican Univision, a reliable source for facts.

Edited January 26, 2017 by dcutman

[Rc2702]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

You seriously think Mexicans are going to entirely pay for any 'wall' - and American tax payers are not going to pay a dime?

I do think Mexico will pay. The ford plant for example and any other investment will be scrutinised as it had been; unless. The fox media co who were scammed by the thai tv operator for dogi rights should do something similar like; hire Danny Boyle to script a dark updated version of thailand and send it to TAT. Those payments would soon be collected.

[mtls2005]

The original claim, was that 40% of illegal immigrants fly into the US. For that reason a the proposed border wall is and will be ineffective.

 

Yes, but the 17 other sections of his Executive Order cover much of the interdiction, rounding up, capturing, holding in detention camps, etc. So while The Wall sounds cool, his order is directing significant resources, budget and personnel to dealing with illegals, and "Securing Our Borders".

 

Personally I think it's a huge waste of time, money and resources addressing a non-problem, but I suspect Trump feels like a few of the poople who voted for him really want him to do this.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, WaywardWind said:

Take it up with him?  You re the guy who said he was keeping his promises.

 

His tax returns will show that he has been gaming the system for decades; his failure to divest is  clear indication that he intends to profit substantially from holding the office of the President and, in fact, has already started to do so.

 

Apparently you see nothing wrong in either.  I find both aspects repugnant.

 

"Gaming the System" = carrying over losses from one year to the next - standard US tax-code practice.  No small business and many large business could stay in business otherwise.

 

He has already said he will donate all profits from hotel-bookings of foreign-governments to the Dept of the Treasury, so that he will not profit from - and hence be influenced by - where they stay.  His businesses are not a bunch of stock he can easily put in a blind-trust, and whoever bought them, if he did sell them, would be potentially buying influence by doing so.  It's a catch-22.  In any case, he never promised to sell all his assets, and anything remotely resembling buying influence via Trump assets will be heavily scrutinized.

 

Read his financial disclosures made at the beginning for details on his money/assets.  Tax returns reveal far less - especially the bits and pieces most candidates have traditionally released.  The people who voted for Trump did not do so to "see his taxes" - they did so to elect the only candidate, in either party, who claimed to be committed to ending both the national-suicide trade deals and the labor-flood immigration policies, which have combined to inflict severe economic-damage upon millions of US-Citizen families. 

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, farcanell said:

We've got an F off big moat to protect our borders.... works rather well, too.

 

we augment this by useing state of the art, ocean current driven technology, to stop it silting up, and also maintain an arsenal of man eating sharks and crocodiles, as a further preventative measure.

 

she'll be right mate ?

Until politicians decide that poor immigrants are the solution to the countries' problems.  But that's already happened in Aus. as it has in other island countries.

 

Most US politicians similarly declare that immigration is necessary to maintain the 'system'.  But the election showed that quite a few are fed up with the 'system' that only benefits the wealthy.

 

So we're left with Trump promising to build a wall, and that Mexico will pay for this wall.

 

Which brings us back to politics again.....

Edited January 26, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[DM07]

Everybody who celebrates this complete and utter foolishness, should have their heads checked! 

[dick dasterdly]

1 minute ago, DM07 said:

Everybody who celebrates this complete and utter foolishness, should have their heads checked! 

Great argument (roll eyes).

[DM07]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Great argument (roll eyes).

Yeah...no further argument needed!

Wait for the building (never happens!) of a more than 1000km wall (never happens), payed for by Mexico (aka the American tax-payer)!

(roll eyes)

[farcanell]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Until politicians decide that poor immigrants are the solution to the countries' problems.  But that's already happened in Aus. as it has in other island countries.

 

Most US politicians similarly declare that immigration is necessary to maintain the 'system'.  But the election showed that quite a few are fed up with the 'system' that only benefits the wealthy.

 

So we're left with Trump promising to build a wall, and that Mexico will pay for this wall.

 

Which brings us back to politics again.....

Rubbish.

 

to immigrate to Australia, generally, you need to prove you can sustain yourself until you get a job.... and SKILLED workers are being aggressively targeted, with many having pledges of jobs before coming, or financial guarantors.

 

obviously this is not true for bone Fido refugees, of which Australia has qazetted intake numbers.... based on population proportion etc.... because our government/system is a geopolitically responsible system.

 

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, dcutman said:

 

Lets try and use some logic here. First of all, just to get air ticket you need a valid visa and passport, witch cost several hundred dollars. Next you need to buy the ticket another several hundred dollars. We are, for the most part talking about poor peasants. The last hurdle will be getting through US immigration.  Please, nobody could be that stupid as to believe even 25% of illegals are flying into the US from anywhere south of the boarder or any where else for that matter.

Bash Trump all you want, but to believe and try and make others believe BS stories is just to much.

 

You clearly have an alternative view of the meaning of logic. I do not see any logic in your assertions, merely distraction and racially biased generalizations. Assessing your statements by the principles of validity exposes that you are illogical.

 

You assert that most undocumented immigrants are 'peasants', presumably Mexican or other South American 'peasants' without providing any evidence or data, let alone logical reasoning, that the majority of undocumented immigrants are subsistence farmers. You then assume that people living in poverty cannot raise money to afford passports, visas and air tickets when it is quite evident that people smugglers charge thousands of dollars which their 'clients' find in a variety of ways. Finally you indicate that something, you do not mention what, happens at US immigration. If passports and visas are valid, then the only thing that happens at US immigration is entry into the country.

 

Not all undocumented immigrants come from Mexico. Your assumptions are clearly prejudiced and frankly typically racist.

 

Whether Ramos is correct or not. Whether the figure is 25% as suggested by some of the fact checkers or 40%, it still renders the wall/fence solution moot. Added to this is the trend now that more undocumented immigrants are leaving the US than are arriving, it means that this $50bn white elephant is merely a sop to the frenzied anti-emigration racists that voted for Minority President Trump.

 

You may keep your opinion but don't try and sell that lump of crap as logical analysis.

[dcutman]

Just now, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

You clearly have an alternative view of the meaning of logic. I do not see any logic in your assertions, merely distraction and racially biased generalizations. Assessing your statements by the principles of validity exposes that you are illogical.

 

You assert that most undocumented immigrants are 'peasants', presumably Mexican or other South American 'peasants' without providing any evidence or data, let alone logical reasoning, that the majority of undocumented immigrants are subsistence farmers. You then assume that people living in poverty cannot raise money to afford passports, visas and air tickets when it is quite evident that people smugglers charge thousands of dollars which their 'clients' find in a variety of ways. Finally you indicate that something, you do not mention what, happens at US immigration. If passports and visas are valid, then the only thing that happens at US immigration is entry into the country.

 

Not all undocumented immigrants come from Mexico. Your assumptions are clearly prejudiced and frankly typically racist.

 

Whether Ramos is correct or not. Whether the figure is 25% as suggested by some of the fact checkers or 40%, it still renders the wall/fence solution moot. Added to this is the trend now that more undocumented immigrants are leaving the US than are arriving, it means that this $50bn white elephant is merely a sop to the frenzied anti-emigration racists that voted for Minority President Trump.

 

You may keep your opinion but don't try and sell that lump of crap as logical analysis.

Until you go back and read how this conversation started and progressed,clearly you have not, dont even comment.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 minute ago, dcutman said:

Until you go back and read how this conversation started and progressed,clearly you have not, dont even comment.

 

You keep saying that to posters as if it means something.

 

Context has entirely no consequence to what I have said about your inappropriate assumption of logical thinking which is merely a prosaic recitation of assumed events based on prejudice and bias.

 

I will comment on whatever I please. As will I call out bigotry and prejudice.

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, dcutman said:

Until you go back and read how this conversation started and progressed,clearly you have not, dont even comment.

Doesn't matter how it progressed, your assertions are clearly and utterly wrong.

[Tawan Dok Krating Daeng]

1 hour ago, dcutman said:

Totally disagree. A 15% remittance fee will pay for the wall as well as bring in future revenue for border security. Of course there are  many other avenues for payment.

 

That is not Mexico paying for the Wall/Fence. It is Mexicans paying for it. How will this 'remittance fee' be implemented? Presumably by law. How will all those Republican linked financiers going to feel about the US trying to implement capital controls. In any case a remittance fee will be easily avoided. All that will happen is another 10,000 border patrol officers will be hired to try and chase down fund transfer schemes.

 

What are these other 'revenue sources' or don't the Alt Right anti-immigration websites list them for you?