Trump bars door to refugees, visitors from seven nations

[Ulysses G.]

12 minutes ago, Opl said:

Iran says to ban U.S. visitors in retaliation to Trump move

 

Big deal. Maybe Syria will bar American tourists too. 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Suspensions will now be issued.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

 

(European companies thankfull to Trump.) ...   Islamic terrorists are to be sought on the side of (his friends) the Saudis rather than the Iranians.

 

Trump still doing  business in Saudi Arabia, despite blaming the country for 9/11

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-saudi-arabia-911-business-deals-a7038991.html

If Trump really had balls as some of his supporters mistakenly believe, he would have added Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and a few others to the exclusion list. They're not covered by the exclusion order he signed, but they certainly deserve to be as major country sponsors and supporters of Islamic extremism/terrorism.

 

[lostlink]

Way to go Trump!

[KhonKaenKowboy]

El Salvador should be on the list....ever hear of MS-13? Many of Salvador's worst given refugee status.

[Scott]

It will be interesting to see if there is a court challenge to the Executive Order.   From the President on down to the interviewing officer at an embassy have very broad powers to deny anyone admission to the US.    Whether an order such as this is constitutional may depend on how it is written, but anyone who has taken someone for a visa knows, they can refuse you based on almost anything.

 

Sadly, I would be less worried about the refugees than an ordinary person from a lot of countries applying for a visa.   Refugees are vetted, and vetted again, and then their are background checks.    A person applying for a tourist or business visa is reasonably easy and very little vetting.  

 

 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Refugees are getting free health care, housing, food stamps, and preference for jobs in some cases.  I worked with a number of Cuban refugees.  Most became independent fairly quick, and took income cuts by working.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Scott said:

Sadly, I would be less worried about the refugees than an ordinary person from a lot of countries applying for a visa.   Refugees are vetted, and vetted again, and then their are background checks.    A person applying for a tourist or business visa is reasonably easy and very little vetting. 

I'm no expert on refugee processing, but I believe I've read that the situations in places such as Syria and elsewhere where the governments are effectively non-functional or in other ways compromised, that it becomes very difficult for anyone on the outside to ascertain just whatever a particular person may have been up to in his/her prior life activities. Lack of records, lack of credible/reliable information sources, etc etc.

 

And as I've said before, the Europeans certainly seem to have made a mess of their mishandling of the refugee crisis, dawdling while tens of thousands suffer humanitarian disasters, and then somehow managing to accept a lot of people who have ended up becoming criminals and terrorists in the European countries they were allowed to emigrate to.

 

[Scott]

There are budgets set aside for resettling refugees.   It is generally in line with the same benefits given for those on welfare.   There are some additional services -- such as language, job assistance, etc., but the amount of time for benefits is very limited and they are expected to be up, running and working within a short period of time.

 

The local NGO's who assist in resettlement provide most of the services.  

[Skywalker69]

Strange that they didn´t ban Saudi Arabia as the majority of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi.

 

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/01/16/bush-admits-majority-of-911-hijackers-were-saudis/

[Scott]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I'm no expert on refugee processing, but I believe I've read that the situations in places such as Syria and elsewhere where the governments are effectively non-functional or in other ways compromised, that it becomes very difficult for anyone on the outside to ascertain just whatever a particular person may have been up to in his/her prior life activities. Lack of records, lack of credible/reliable information sources, etc etc.

 

And as I've said before, the Europeans certainly seem to have made a mess of their mishandling of the refugee crisis, dawdling while tens of thousands suffer humanitarian disasters, and then somehow managing to accept a lot of people who have ended up becoming criminals and terrorists in the European countries they were allowed to emigrate to.

 

There are a lot of different ways of verifying information on refugees and all of them are employed before someone is resettled and if they can't verify, then the person is not resettled.  

 

A good case in point is the Hmong who were returned to Laos a few years back.   Many of them had been waiting for years for resettlement to the US, but for a variety of reasons, they could not be properly vetted (or had health issues precluding resettlement -- such as TB, which must be treated and they must be clear of the disease for a certain length of time).   If they can't be vetted; they are not resettled. 

 

 

[Skywalker69]

The terrorist have sleeping cells in many other countrys also within USA. The ban has nothing to do with terrorism but with raceism.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Skywalker69 said:

Strange that they didn´t ban Saudi Arabia as the majority of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi.

 

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/01/16/bush-admits-majority-of-911-hijackers-were-saudis/

Maybe not that $trange.

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/27/donald_trump_s_first_week_as_president_was_full_of_conflicts_of_interest.html

 

Quote

The First Week in Donald Trump’s Kleptocracy Was Very, Very Kleptocratic

Trump signaled his intent to sign an order suspending the granting of visas to seven predominantly Muslim countries. Not on the list: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Indonesia, Turkey, Qatar, Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, and Azerbaijan, aka predominantly Muslim countries where the Trump Organization has existing business interests.

 

[F4UCorsair]

At last........a President with BALLS!!!  BIG BALLS, made of stainless steel.

I recall when the Australian Prime Minister said, "We will decide who comes to our country, and on what terms."  The left went nuts, but even theft of politics came on side!!

33 imprisoned in Australia on terrorism charges, 23 are Lebanese muslims or descendants of, the other 10 are muslims from other countries, or descendants of.

Mmmmmmm............is there a problem here?

[KhonKaenKowboy]

14 minutes ago, Scott said:

There are a lot of different ways of verifying information on refugees and all of them are employed before someone is resettled and if they can't verify, then person is not resettled.  

 

A good case in point is the Hmong who were returned to Laos a few years back.   Many of them had been waiting for years for resettlement to the US, but for a variety of reasons, they could not be properly vetted (or had health issues precluding resettlement -- such as TB, which must be treated and they must be clear of the disease for a certain length of time).   If they can't be vetted; they are not resettled. 

 

 

Knd of like Scarface....they finally let them out of INS Detention, even though they knew many were hardcore criminals...much truth to that aspect. Of course, they did not want to bomb civilians however.

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

At last........a President with BALLS!!!  BIG BALLS, made of stainless steel.

I recall when the Australian Prime Minister said, "We will decide who comes to our country, and on what terms."  The left went nuts, but even theft of politics came on side!!

33 imprisoned in Australia on terrorism charges, 23 are Lebanese muslims or descendants of, the other 10 are muslims from other countries, or descendants of.

Mmmmmmm............is there a problem here?

The USA and Australia are not the same nation. Let's not get into the dark (racist) history of Australian immigration policies, OK? 

The USA has also done a lot of dark things with immigration policies. Now here goes again. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2017 by Jingthing

[Scott]

1 hour ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

Knd of like Scarface....they finally let them out of INS Detention, even though they knew many were hardcore criminals...much truth to that aspect. Of course, they did not want to bomb civilians however.

No, it's considerably different.   If you are being held by INS on American soil, you have the same constitutional rights as US citizens.   If you are overseas, on foreign soil, waiting to get in, you have no guarantees and there are no promises.   Vetting will be complete or you don't get resettled, it's quite simple.  

 

 

[Jingthing]

More on the conflict of BUSINESS interest with trump's list of banned nations:

Quote

 

The nations targeted by travel ban have one thing in common: No apparent Trump business interests

Several majority-Muslim nations where the Trump Organization is active have in some cases also faced troublesome issues with terrorism.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/countries-where-trump-does-business-are-not-hit-by-new-travel-restrictions/2017/01/28/dd40535a-e56b-11e6-a453-19ec4b3d09ba_story.html

[WaywardWind]

4 hours ago, pieeyed said:

WaywardWind. If you had spent anytime in an extreme muslim country you would be praising Trump. Unless you are a muslim?

Of the 22 years I spent living and working abroad, more than half were predominantly Muslim countries, some extreme, some more moderate. I never felt remotely endangered, other than late night incidents with drunken police in Tajikistan.

 

Unlike most people here, I have been reading about Trump for over 30 years; if you lived in NY, it was impossible to avoid the barrage of news about him. That continues: I just finished reading David Cay Johnston's book "The Making of Donald Trump", and am in the middle of the Karnish book "Trump Revealed."

 

So let me give you my thoughts: if you had spent any time learning about Donald Trump, you would be condemning Donald Trump with all of your might.

 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, WaywardWind said:

So let me give you my thoughts: if you had spent any time learning about Donald Trump, you would be condemning Donald Trump with all of your might.

What does that mean in practical terms?

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

What does that mean in practical terms?

If I thought you were serious, I would offer suggestions.

 

But you are not, so I won't.

[SaintLouisBlues]

14 minutes ago, WaywardWind said:

If I thought you were serious, I would offer suggestions.

 

But you are not, so I won't.

I'll take that to mean you haven't a clue beyond hand-wringing and occasionally stamping your foot

[WaywardWind]

24 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I'll take that to mean you haven't a clue beyond hand-wringing and occasionally stamping your foot

Thank you for proving my point.

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

No, it's considerably different.   If you are being held by INS on American soil, you have the same constitutional rights as US citizens.   If you are overseas, on foreign soil, waiting to get in, you have no guarantees and there are no promises.   Vetting will be complete or you don't get resettled, it's quite simple.  

 

 

 

Any idea what 'extreme vetting' might entail over and above current assessment processes?

[zydeco]

5 hours ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

El Salvador should be on the list....ever hear of MS-13? Many of Salvador's worst given refugee status.

Actually, that's a good point.  Many central American nations should go on the list. And maybe mexico, too, if it can't sort out the narcoterrorists from its government. The vast, vast majority of American people are applauding Trump for this action. American immigration and refugee policies should be in place to protect American citizens, first and foremost.  They are not there for the convenience of citizens of terror producing nations.

Edited January 29, 2017 by zydeco

[alanrchase]

Actually, that's a good point.  Many central American nations should go on the list. And may mexico, too, if it can't sort out the narcoterrorists from its government. The vast, vast majority of American people are applauding Trump for this action. American immigration and refugee policies should be in place to protect American citizens, first and foremost.  They are not there for the convenience of citizens of terror producing nations.

As has been pointed out already in this topic there is the appearance that this immigration policy is not to totally protect American citizens but is also to protect Trump business interests.

Sent from my SM-A500F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[F4UCorsair]

3 hours ago, WaywardWind said:

Of the 22 years I spent living and working abroad, more than half were predominantly Muslim countries, some extreme, some more moderate. I never felt remotely endangered, other than late night incidents with drunken police in Tajikistan.

 

Unlike most people here, I have been reading about Trump for over 30 years; if you lived in NY, it was impossible to avoid the barrage of news about him. That continues: I just finished reading David Cay Johnston's book "The Making of Donald Trump", and am in the middle of the Karnish book "Trump Revealed."

 

So let me give you my thoughts: if you had spent any time learning about Donald Trump, you would be condemning Donald Trump with all of your might.

 

 

You condemn him, but are reading a second book, Trump Revealed??

 

Are you sure It's not a man crush??

[Scott]

26 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Any idea what 'extreme vetting' might entail over and above current assessment processes?

Absolutely no idea.   It's already pretty extreme.    For example, any inconsistency in the biodata given by all the family members, including those submitted by more distant relatives will delay screening.   A wrong birthdate, a wrong date of marriage (and that's a problem with traditional marriages), someone omitted or someone added to the biodata.    Any differences in something as simple as the spelling of a middle name (also a problem with names that are transliterated) will cause delays.  

 

Any inconsistency in the family history, where they lived, where the children went to school, names of grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, will result in delays.  

 

All of this information is checked with the FBI, CIA and Homeland security.   Any security hits by anybody will cause a delay and possible rejection.  

 

This doesn't even begin to get into the actual claim to Refugee Status.   That story has to jive with everything that is known about the country and the conditions.   Oh, and those that are displaced are not refugees.

 

I don't know what more could be done.   I mean, when I was involved in processing, even newborn infants were vetted and went through the FBI check!    And families that had a newborn got to jump through new hoops -- no picking up a baby from another family and sneaking it through.  

[daveAustin]

The terrorist have sleeping cells in many other countrys also within USA. The ban has nothing to do with terrorism but with raceism.

Dear me, change the tune, it's getting really boring. If the bloke were racist he wouldn't hire black people or have married his immigrant wife. At least he is doing something tangible to try to throttle ISLAMIC terrorism to his country. It might have the opposite effect and inconvenience some, but it was a campaign pledge and is worth a try. Should probably have included Saudi and Pakistan though. The likes of Jeremy Corbyn and their dainty left tripe (when is his party going to boot him out!) are sickening to listen to.

[WaywardWind]

6 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

You condemn him, but are reading a second book, Trump Revealed??

 

Are you sure It's not a man crush??

No, I leave all of those kinds of feelings to you...

 

You should try reading some time...might do you some good...