Have some questions about blacklist, maybe someone can help!

[smotherb]

10 hours ago, ThomASen said:

If you read the hole topic instead of just what you wanna read you would see i not have any ticket down yet.

 

 

And i really hope you get another hobby then writing shit to people on all forums you come across. For what you know.. Maybe it was pretty good reasons to have an overstay? Or maybe it was none. Nobody has asked.

 

Have a good day!

However difficult it is for you to accept realEnglish1's criticism, he has a valid point. By your own admission, you did overstay more than 90 days; a direct violation of Thai immigration laws. No matter what the reason, it is obvious Thai immigration didn't buy it; thus, your one year ban.

 

Then, you change your name and get a new passport and say you intend to enter Thailand using it; another direct violation of Thai immigration law. Does that not substantiate what realEnglish1 said about you?

 

You did not respond to csabo's question about what you filled in for 'previous name' on the visa application. Could that mean you did not correctly fill it in? 

 

Now you say you used your previous name as your middle name on your passport. I think the simple use of your previous surname as your middle name will be enough to catch you. And, if you did not fill in your previous name, or used a phony name, on the visa application; well that just underscores what realEnglish1 said, doesn’t it?

 

I think you need to do what has already been advised; wait until September to re-enter.

 

[ThomASen]

21 minutes ago, smotherb said:

However difficult it is for you to accept realEnglish1's criticism, he has a valid point. By your own admission, you did overstay more than 90 days; a direct violation of Thai immigration laws. No matter what the reason, it is obvious Thai immigration didn't buy it; thus, your one year ban.

 

Then, you change your name and get a new passport and say you intend to enter Thailand using it; another direct violation of Thai immigration law. Does that not substantiate what realEnglish1 said about you?

 

You did not respond to csabo's question about what you filled in for 'previous name' on the visa application. Could that mean you did not correctly fill it in? 

 

Now you say you used your previous name as your middle name on your passport. I think the simple use of your previous surname as your middle name will be enough to catch you. And, if you did not fill in your previous name, or used a phony name, on the visa application; well that just underscores what realEnglish1 said, doesn’t it?

 

I think you need to do what has already been advised; wait until September to re-enter.

 

Just to clear this out. to get criticism is ok as long as you read the topic with posts that has been comming in. 

 

Maybe my topic was not the right one and in my first post all info was not there.. 

 

I do not have any intention in breaking any law..

 

I did not get a new passport to go to Thailand.. I got a new one because i got back my birth name that is the same as my father..

That means i know have my old surname as my middle name. Got it? 

 

I then saw everything in it was different from my old one. To check if i was on the blacklist i applied for a visa and got it approved.

 

And i did answer what i filled in at the application if you read my posts.

 

So again.. If you read before you comment that would be nice. Then you can come with all the criticism you want right?

 

I have been honest in my application and got a visa. My question is.. Is it illigal still when i have been honest in my application? OR am i tricking the system? Am i on any blacklist or is it just talk?

But as people say here is that the embassy does not have the immigration system on their computers. But thats strange if you ask me.

 

I have sent some e-mails to some legal offices in Thailand including the the thai immigration if they can check it up. And maybe its possible to get it removed if i am.

 

If not i will ofcourse wait til september. Then i can travel another place right?

[SueOriginal]

1. Embassies didn't check blacklisted persons database few years ago, as they simply were not linked to it.
It is important to understand that a Visa is among factors to be be granted at the border an Entry Permit.
Other factors include a possession of documents confirming a purpose of a visit, ability to return to home country and possession of ticket / funds for that, availability of a place to stay, a possession of sufficient funds for a duration of the visit, travel document (passport) with enough duration.
Also another factors are that person is not blacklisted and does not posses a threat to security or public health.
Hence at the border immigration may check if you are blacklisted, but embassies simply do not check for that.

2. About capacity of immigration systems to get biometric identification at border I have got last year two different opinions from immigration officers, who are not directly involved in border procedures, so these opinions are not authoritative enough to be relied upon, but give a hint for hypotheses to investigate further:

A. immigration routinely collect fingerprints from all deported persons. I understood your circumstances that you have been deported, and then you have been for sure fingerprinted.
There are doubts whether all these fingerprints got into databases already, and even if yes, whether they are actually used for matching on every entry.

B. Another immigration officers gave a hint to what was mentioned above - that "intelligent system" routinely looks for persons with the same date of birth and citizenship, or name - in case if person changes his/her name or citizenship. I do not know how interface of this system looks from immigration officer at the border end, but it well may be that they have discretion to click through "suspicious similar identity options" generated by the system - that will include information gathered on previous entries/exits, incl. photos, or not to click through at all, or to do it in a part - so then it clearly depends on good luck.

My personal opinion , that is based on impressions of level of interconnection of systems, how well their capacities are utilized - actually, often manifestly underutilized , so there is a good chance to get through.

3. I never heard that airlines are able to get access to blacklisted persons database and match all data there, but who knows.

4. Your stamp in the passport is clearly for 1 year blacklisting , that counts from a date of actual departure.

5. If you transit airside , I do not think it should be a problem, unless you have e.g. outstanding arrest warrant, and they will get check of the list of passengers.
Of course, if KLM has got an access to that database, they may check some matching data, but surely not all options will be available to them, incl. biometric ones - I am not sure what they match with a database, your new name and passport number? - it will clearly generate response that you are not blacklisted - but you are - and only further options, presumably unavailable to them, may generate positive match.

If you will go for this options, please drop then few words here about an outcome.


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[ThomASen]

6 minutes ago, SueOriginal said:

1. Embassies didn't check blacklisted persons database few years ago, as they simply were not linked to it.
It is important to understand that a Visa is among factors to be be granted at the border an Entry Permit.
Other factors include a possession of documents confirming a purpose of a visit, ability to return to home country and possession of ticket / funds for that, availability of a place to stay, a possession of sufficient funds for a duration of the visit, travel document (passport) with enough duration.
Also another factors are that person is not blacklisted and does not posses a threat to security or public health.
Hence at the border immigration may check if you are blacklisted, but embassies simply do not check for that.

2. About capacity of immigration systems to get biometric identification at border I have got last year two different opinions from immigration officers, who are not directly involved in border procedures, so these opinions are not authoritative enough to be relied upon, but give a hint for hypotheses to investigate further:

A. immigration routinely collect fingerprints from all deported persons. I understood your circumstances that you have been deported, and then you have been for sure fingerprinted.
There are doubts whether all these fingerprints got into databases already, and even if yes, whether they are actually used for matching on every entry.

B. Another immigration officers gave a hint to what was mentioned above - that "intelligent system" routinely looks for persons with the same date of birth and citizenship, or name - in case if person changes his/her name or citizenship. I do not know how interface of this system looks from immigration officer at the border end, but it well may be that they have discretion to click through "suspicious similar identity options" generated by the system - that will include information gathered on previous entries/exits, incl. photos, or not to click through at all, or to do it in a part - so then it clearly depends on good luck.

My personal opinion , that is based on impressions of level of interconnection of systems, how well their capacities are utilized - actually, often manifestly underutilized , so there is a good chance to get through.

3. I never heard that airlines are able to get access to blacklisted persons database and match all data there, but who knows.

4. Your stamp in the passport is clearly for 1 year blacklisting , that counts from a date of actual departure.

5. If you transit airside , I do not think it should be a problem, unless you have e.g. outstanding arrest warrant, and they will get check of the list of passengers.
Of course, if KLM has got an access to that database, they may check some matching data, but surely not all options will be available to them, incl. biometric ones - I am not sure what they match with a database, your new name and passport number? - it will clearly generate response that you are not blacklisted - but you are - and only further options, presumably unavailable to them, may generate positive match.

If you will go for this options, please drop then few words here about an outcome.


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Thanks for a very well and good reply.

 

You write in 2A about fingerprints. They did not take my fingerprints. It was a very fast thing to do when i arrived at the airport. When i went through the immigration i just paid the 20 000,- fine and signed some papers and off i was.

 

I also contacted KLM and earlier today they replied me that i needed to contact the embassy / consulat to get answers on question like this. They do not stop anyone entering the flight.

 

And i think it could be some holes in the system they got. In my country we use a personal number and NOT the passport number to identify a person. And this number i have never used in any applications i have had in Thailand before. 

That might be why i get a new number in the passport. Not sure if they do in other countries.

 

I have sent some emails and will also call the immigration tomorrow to ask if they can check this up if i am on the blacklist.

 

I will let you guys know more about how the situation ends.

[hagler]

Have a go and let us know how you end up. Might work out ok. Might not.

 

Whats the worst that can happen?  Lol

 

Some people really shouldnt be given the privilidge to travel.

[ThomASen]

5 minutes ago, hagler said:

Have a go and let us know how you end up. Might work out ok. Might not.

 

Whats the worst that can happen?  Lol

 

Some people really shouldnt be given the privilidge to travel.

Well if you read i have no intentions in travelling before i have a clear go from the authorities. 

 

Some people shouldnt be given the privilidge to comment on the internet....

[SueOriginal]

Thanks for a very well and good reply.
 
You write in 2A about fingerprints. They did not take my fingerprints. It was a very fast thing to do when i arrived at the airport. When i went through the immigration i just paid the 20 000,- fine and signed some papers and off i was.
 
I also contacted KLM and earlier today they replied me that i needed to contact the embassy / consulat to get answers on question like this. They do not stop anyone entering the flight.
 
And i think it could be some holes in the system they got. In my country we use a personal number and NOT the passport number to identify a person. And this number i have never used in any applications i have had in Thailand before. 
That might be why i get a new number in the passport. Not sure if they do in other countries.
 
I have sent some emails and will also call the immigration tomorrow to ask if they can check this up if i am on the blacklist.
 
I will let you guys know more about how the situation ends.

Good luck then!

If you just appeared in the airport and left after paying 20kTHB - that I missed here, then chances that you will get positive biometric identification are much lower.

How persons are identified for domestic purposes in your home country, of course, is irrelevant for Thai inward immigration.
What we try to do here, is to make a [educated] guess how Thai immigration identify incoming visitors - and that we don't know for sure.

If you really are intent on just airside transit in BKK, then all these matters should not be your concern.

So neither airline nor embassy have access to the database.

I am curious how you are going to inquire immigration - they notoriously do not publish contacts, and you will have to send them at least your scanned passport (through LINE - their favorite communication channel?). I am afraid it may trigger that they will identify your previous identity and will forcibly link one to another, that may not necessarily happen, as discussed above, in the airport upon an entry.

Your previous name is blacklisted for sure.
If you are inquiring under the new name, and they will see there were no entries so far - they also not that stupid not to understand why a person with such dataset is inquiring on the matter, and they may became motivated to dig further, beware.


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[ThomASen]

1 hour ago, SueOriginal said:

Good luck then!

If you just appeared in the airport and left after paying 20kTHB - that I missed here, then chances that you will get positive biometric identification are much lower.

How persons are identified for domestic purposes in your home country, of course, is irrelevant for Thai inward immigration.
What we try to do here, is to make a [educated] guess how Thai immigration identify incoming visitors - and that we don't know for sure.

If you really are intent on just airside transit in BKK, then all these matters should not be your concern.

So neither airline nor embassy have access to the database.

I am curious how you are going to inquire immigration - they notoriously do not publish contacts, and you will have to send them at least your scanned passport (through LINE - their favorite communication channel?). I am afraid it may trigger that they will identify your previous identity and will forcibly link one to another, that may not necessarily happen, as discussed above, in the airport upon an entry.

Your previous name is blacklisted for sure.
If you are inquiring under the new name, and they will see there were no entries so far - they also not that stupid not to understand why a person with such dataset is inquiring on the matter, and they may became motivated to dig further, beware.


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Well i will wait for answer on the request i have made to some legal offices in Bangkok. Maybe they can help me out to get back in legally.

 

 

I see an old article from last year that it is a hole in the system some place:

 

https://thaipoo.com/blacklisted-russian-nabbed-in-pattaya-for-visa-overstay/

 

 

[namatjira]

Just damn the torpedoes and give it a go.....

if you rightly and justly  receive a new 5 year ban 

and get caught you can entertain everyone with even more

cunning schemes.....if 9 months is bad consider 5 years.

its better if you can, to proceed legally in this life.

 

[ubonjoe]

12 hours ago, ThomASen said:

I applied to check if i was on any blacklist or if it was just talk. Because i did not get any document that says i have a ban for entering the kingdom.

You would have a stamp in your passport stating you are banned from entering the country.

As has been said embassies and consulates do not check for blacklisting.

[JackThompson]

9 hours ago, ThomASen said:

No just a standard receipt like you get down there.

 

I remember signing many documents that where all in thai. And she said "can not come back 1 year".

 

I attach the stamp i got in the passport. Maybe someone can read thai.

 

Based on that stamp in your passport, it appears you are indeed banned.  You can verify that they put you in the blacklist via an agent/lawyer, but I would not spend a lot of money on this. 

 

We have seen reports of people being found on the blacklist by airlines and denied boarding, so it appears they do check a database.  I would not try to "transit through" Thailand for this reason.  If not caught on boarding, you could still be picked-up, detained, and deported upon landing - because the Thai authorities receive passenger-lists in advance.

 

I cannot blame you for missing Thailand - I've been gone for a while and felt the same thing.  This is why I go through the time, cost, and trouble of obtaining Tourist Visas 4 times/yr.  If I were in your shoes, I would not create anger on the part of the authorities by attempting to return until the ban is over; this would undoubtedly be perceived as a lack of respect on your part, just as the overstay was perceived as this.  I understand that, from your perspective, your overstay was not intended to show disrespect for Thailand - but it is how they perceive this action that matters.

[FritsSikkink]

10 hours ago, ThomASen said:

Then dont bother.

 

If you read all the post you will see i do not have any intentions breaking any laws, Im interested finding out if i am on the blacklist, if the visa they gave me is valid or not...

You are blacklisted and try everything to enter the country anyway. So stop kidding yourself.

[BWPattaya]

On 29/01/2017 at 2:04 PM, midas said:

 

I really don't understand why your friend took that unnecessary risk when he could have just simply flown to Vietnam from the UK and crossed into Cambodia from there

Because he wanted to see his Thai wife

[SueOriginal]

Just curious about outcome. Have you checked procedures how you officers do check for inclusion in blacklist at the border? Have you entered the country successfully?


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