UK concerned about giving data on Rolls-Royce bribes: Prayut

[mtls2005]

While Capital Punishment remains a viable sentence here for 30+ crimes (not sure if bribery is one?), the fact remains that there hasn't been an execution in 8-ish years.

 

I guess the Junta could tell the SFO that they can guarantee that capital punishment will not be enforced as a result of this case, but suspect this gives them a nice out to ignore it as "good people" might be implicated.

 

Seems like they should do everything to "fight corruption", but only if it is committed by those on the "other side".

 

After all, any bribery charges on those statues was glossed over quite miraculously? And the "Amulet seller" was never named. Amazing.

[halloween]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

How cooperative are the Thai's when UK, US and Australian citizens are being ripped off by boiler room scammers based in Thailand, or when their citizens are murdered or extorted here? Do you think that the information would be used justly? My guess is that it would be used selectively ... opponents of the state hung out to dry but others left untouched. The idea that you would change anything is laughable.

Forgive me, I prefer to see SOME criminals face justice rather than none. The brits a getting a free pass, so that leaves the locals. Wossamatta, afraid you little tin god might have got his fingers in the pie?

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, halloween said:

Forgive me, I prefer to see SOME criminals face justice rather than none. The brits a getting a free pass, so that leaves the locals. Wossamatta, afraid you little tin god might have got his fingers in the pie?

My little tin God? I think you presume too much? I just see no point in any of it ... no justice will come of it, and nothing will change here.

 

As for the Brits, I read the former CEO of Rolls Royce is now lawyered up, in expectation that he'll be prosecuted. So wrong on both counts, but I forgive you.

Edited January 31, 2017 by AlexRich

[12DrinkMore]

4 hours ago, kannot said:

is it me or does that photo show a simpleton?

Good Lord!

 

From that angle is does look like there is not much room for a developed frontal lobe.

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, halloween said:

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

Yep. It's also a criminal offence in the UK to know about bribery in an organization and turn a blind eye. You can be prosecuted for failing to take action if it can be proved you knew, or ought reasonable to have known.

 

Interesting that when any bribery comes to light involving business leaders then suddenly know one wants to prosecute.

 

Same old Britain. 

[JaseTheBass]

"The UK engine-maker faced a fine of more than US$800 million (Bt28.2 billion) in relation to offences committed in Thailand, Indonesia, India and other countries."

 

If bribery wasn't involved in those countries there wouldn't be any business conducted.

Edited January 31, 2017 by JaseTheBass

[Baerboxer]

59 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

My little tin God? I think you presume too much? I just see no point in any of it ... no justice will come of it, and nothing will change here.

 

As for the Brits, I read the former CEO of Rolls Royce is now lawyered up, in expectation that he'll be prosecuted. So wrong on both counts, but I forgive you.

 

So let's see what happens to the former RR CEO and other senior executives. All those involved are liable for prosecution as are any who chose to turn a blind eye whilst nor directly involved.

 

No doubt they'll claim this all happened before the law was beefed up; that they were only doing what competitors did; they did it to safeguard jobs; it's an Asian expectation; etc etc etc.

 

Reality is British, German and French large business organizations behave like this and have gotten away with all sorts of things that others would be prosecuted for.

[Baerboxer]

Just now, JaseTheBass said:

"The UK engine-maker faced a fine of more than US$800 million (Bt28.2 billion) in relation to offences committed in Thailand, Indonesia, India and other countries."

 

If bribery isn't involved in those countries there wouldn't be any business conducted.

 

That's as may be, and the excuse Siemens trotted out a few years ago about being caught bribing in China. 

 

Asia, Middle East, Africa, Indian sub-continent, it's expected.

 

However,  the UK, like other major European countries and the US, has laws which prohibit participating. So when caught, companies have to cough up.

[JaseTheBass]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's as may be, and the excuse Siemens trotted out a few years ago about being caught bribing in China. 

 

Asia, Middle East, Africa, Indian sub-continent, it's expected.

 

However,  the UK, like other major European countries and the US, has laws which prohibit participating. So when caught, companies have to cough up.

I realise that. Doesn't make it right to not allow European companies to compete on a level playing field though.

[sanukjim]

5 hours ago, halloween said:

They are both guilty under British law, but the brit's have decided these very important people shouldn't be prosecuted for their actions.

Does the UK have a "Freedom of information Act" like the US does ? If so anyone can get the names and all the details of the investigation.

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, JaseTheBass said:

I realise that. Doesn't make it right to not allow European companies to compete on a level playing field though.

 

That's irrelevant to the fact that in doing so they are knowingly and willingly breaking the law for commercial gain.

 

Bribery feeds corruption. You either go with corruption and hope to use it for your advantage; or legislate against it and then have to enforce it.

 

You either change the law or apply it. You can't apply it when you want and ignore it when you want. The consequences of doing that can be seen.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, sanukjim said:

Does the UK have a "Freedom of information Act" like the US does ? If so anyone can get the names and all the details of the investigation.

 

Yes.

[12DrinkMore]

15 minutes ago, JaseTheBass said:

"The UK engine-maker faced a fine of more than US$800 million (Bt28.2 billion) in relation to offences committed in Thailand, Indonesia, India and other countries."

 

That fine gets passed on to the shareholders and employees, who are the innocent victims.

 

It is about time the shareholders of these companies and banks called a meeting or two and sacked the bosses.

 

 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

6 hours ago, plachon said:

Should raise serious questions about the SFO's commitment to transparency and accountability, as well as seeking justice in this case. UK should be setting a example here of good corporate governance, but seems they might be protecting some sleazebags in high places, all for keeping face. That Prayut has to be the one who outs them, says a lot about official and corporate corruption on both sides. 

They are not protecting them. It is because of the law brought in by the junta that people found guilty of corruption can be sentenced to death in Thailand. At the time the law was brought in all the people cheered because it seemed as if the junta is getting serious about corruption, but they didn't see the slight of hand.  Western countries will not extradite Thai's because of this law. They (junta) thus bought themselves protection from any extradition in future. These countries will not easily supply any information that may cause a Thai to be found guilty of corruption and then be executed. The death penalty for corruption was not aimed at fighting corruption but was put into place to protect big people against prosecution. The worst part is if any future democratic government try to withdraw the law they will seem to be weak on corruption.

[mtls2005]

They are not protecting them. It is because of the law brought in by the junta that people found guilty of corruption can be sentenced to death in Thailand. 

 

 

Yes, but if the Junta were sincere in tackling corruption they could waive the death penalty as a punishment in this case, get the evidence needed and sentence any guilty parties to life in prison. Or they could easily identify the culprits, follow the money and convict them without help from the U.K.

 

However, they really do not want to dive into this one as it doesn't involve red-shirts, and only good-people (including military possibly) might be involved. They got an easy out on this one. Well played I say.

 

~ July, 2015:

 

The Anti-Corruption Act of 1999 has been amended to state that serious acts of corruption can now see the convicted at risk of death by lethal injection.

 

If found guilty of corruption, one can expect five to 20 years or life imprisonment, a fine of up to Bt400,000, and in the most serious cases, death. The sentence ruling will depend on the amount the offense costs the Kingdom of Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

2 hours ago, JaseTheBass said:

I realise that. Doesn't make it right to not allow European companies to compete on a level playing field though.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the US, European and UK companies are the worst bribers of them all. In Thailand we have had the R&R case, the cable one from the US and then there are the BKK fire engines saga. If you look at the R&R case it involves several other countries and may I add these are the ones that we know about. You can Google the South African arms deal scandal and see that all the companies involved in that scandal were either from the UK or Europe. The only difference between the west and Thailand is that when western companies get caught they pay a fine but here they get away. But the nett effect is the same the bad guys don't get locked up anymore. In the case of R&R people that was involved in the corruption would have received bonuses, instead of serving jail time. Until company CEO's, directors and managers gets locked up the level of corruption will continue to increase.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

4 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

They are not protecting them. It is because of the law brought in by the junta that people found guilty of corruption can be sentenced to death in Thailand. 

 

 

Yes, but if the Junta were sincere in tackling corruption they could waive the death penalty as a punishment in this case, get the evidence needed and sentence any guilty parties to life in prison. Or they could easily identify the culprits, follow the money and convict them without help from the U.K.

 

However, they really do not want to dive into this one as it doesn't involve red-shirts, and only good-people (including military possibly) might be involved. They got an easy out on this one. Well played I say.

 

~ July, 2015:

 

The Anti-Corruption Act of 1999 has been amended to state that serious acts of corruption can now see the convicted at risk of death by lethal injection.

 

If found guilty of corruption, one can expect five to 20 years or life imprisonment, a fine of up to Bt400,000, and in the most serious cases, death. The sentence ruling will depend on the amount the offense costs the Kingdom of Thailand.

 

 

 

 

 

As an example of what you are saying. The NACC have since the coup only handled one case and that was that of YS. They have access to the British document of more than 50 pages which details how and when the corruption has taken place. Even a blind man can follow this trail but the NACC is blind, deaf and s...... (due to defamation laws I will not continue).

[Reigntax]

6 hours ago, futsukayoi said:

 

Thai bashers please note, it is not just in Thailand where HiSo culprits are above the law.

Has nothing to do with British hisos. They were employees of a company who paid bribes, commissions,  backhanders to secure sales for the company. There is no or has not been to date any suggestion of personal gain for those involved despite RR handing over all documents to investigating authorities to the extent that most of the evidence, if they wished, would have been protected by legal privledge.

 

Nothing even slightly comparable to the way Thai hiso's conduct and cover up their activities working for organisations to feather their own nests at a loss to the organisations who employ them, usually government. 

Edited January 31, 2017 by Reigntax

[lvr181]

Prayut is merely setting the scene in order to justify that nothing will be done apart from making some meaningless announcement/s and corruption is "free" to continue as it always has and will, probably, continue to do so.

[sjaak327]

8 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Well, if the UK are concerned, what can you do? Nothing, I guess. Gosh darn it. Case closed. 

 

OR, you could come out with a strong statement and say you will find and prosecute those involved. Use article 44 to change the law about time limits. Show your power and how you're serious about clamping down on corruption, and want equality for all. 

 

But the UK are concerned so there's really nothing you can do, right? Pathetic. 

Did it ever occur to you that article 44 and other tricks are precisely why they are reluctant to hand over information ? Ever hear of a fair justice system ?

 

And yes it gives Prayuth an excuse, win-win for him..

Edited January 31, 2017 by sjaak327

[PETERTHEEATER]

The UK Government need to quash this in the interests of national security as they did with those naughty allegations against BAE Systems........

[rkidlad]

29 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Did it ever occur to you that article 44 and other tricks are precisely why they are reluctant to hand over information ? Ever hear of a fair justice system ?

 

And yes it gives Prayuth an excuse, win-win for him..

I know it's all a load of BS.

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

That's irrelevant to the fact that in doing so they are knowingly and willingly breaking the law for commercial gain.

 

Bribery feeds corruption. You either go with corruption and hope to use it for your advantage; or legislate against it and then have to enforce it.

 

You either change the law or apply it. You can't apply it when you want and ignore it when you want. The consequences of doing that can be seen.

 

Sounds great in theory, but if I'm ever in a situation in, say Thailand, like a car accident or other such problem I'll take the payment up front option rather than take the moral high ground and lobby for a "fair trial", on account of not being the guilty party. 

 

As for corruption within industry, you're only really handing the business to your competition ... it's a cost of doing business in corrupt countries. just don't get caught. 

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Sounds great in theory, but if I'm ever in a situation in, say Thailand, like a car accident or other such problem I'll take the payment up front option rather than take the moral high ground and lobby for a "fair trial", on account of not being the guilty party. 

 

As for corruption within industry, you're only really handing the business to your competition ... it's a cost of doing business in corrupt countries. just don't get caught. 

 

And you illustrate very nicely why all the "fighting corruption" from governments all around the world is pure rhetoric and fake.

[AlexRich]

10 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And you illustrate very nicely why all the "fighting corruption" from governments all around the world is pure rhetoric and fake.

You're right about that ... it is fake. They all know it goes on but can't be seen to be supporting it. I'm not talking about the home country, just the one's where no business is conducted unless someone gets a payout.  

[maxcorrigan]

9 hours ago, Brer Fox said:

Sure does. That photo gives the impression there could be a couple of chromosomes missing. Or he is on something that is known for making people smile in a dopey manner.

Yes it makes him look he should be in a rubber room somewhere bouncing of the walls!

[lvr181]

I think bribery and corruption is great if I and my friends are making money from it. But if I am not getting a benefit then I will legislate against it. 

 

Hence, nothing will change in the foreseeable future in Thailand.

[cncltd1973]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

In the Rolls-Royce cases, the British company reached a deferred prosecution agreement with UK authorities regarding the commission of bribes, some of which allegedly involved Thai government officials and corporate staff, regarding offences relating to a conspiracy to corrupt and the failure to prevent bribery.

Watch out Thailand, the UK is conspiring to corrupt your officials... lol