Britain's Brexit bill clears first legislative hurdle

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Is it you again?

 

May could have got parliamentary approval ages ago. What is your point? The main delays have been awaiting futile (and expensive) court cases.

 

Who has tried to actually BLOCK Brexit? Do you object to parliamentary debate? Object to the Scots standing up for their interests? It's a democracy man!

 

?

 

"Is it you again?"

 

I've worked out Grouse's attitude problem. He thinks he can talk to debating opponents the same way he would talk to an employee who has raised his displeasure and been summonsed to his office .

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The Brexiteers keep clamouring for rapid progress. The delays since June 2016 are entirely due to May's rather slow synaptic responses and an ill advised desire to try and circumvent parliamentary democracy.

 

I must say I had some difficulty in parsing your post but I hope that suffices 

 

Sorry, your answer is inaccurate and inadequate. "Parsing".....you're hilarious (and you want to try reading a few of your own posts objectively) .

[Grouse]

 

 

?

Edited February 2, 2017 by Grouse
Self preservation ?

[Khun Han]

26 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Don't need to, I am a fan and have followed her since all this started.  If she was running brexit then I would be much more confident of a good result.

 

You're a fan of Gina Miller? Oh dear!

[Grouse]

Han, I'm going to leave it at that.

 

I have no wish to bicker

 

I have tried to respond in a civil manner with a bit of humour sprinkled in

 

I have no wish to offend anyone 

 

I'm off to bed now....

[jpinx]

Even the MP's in Westminster will have this sorted before the bickering in here stops.... 

Edited February 2, 2017 by jpinx

[evadgib]

HMGs White paper:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union-white-paper 

[Lite Beer]

I thought Labour were supposed to be the opposition.

Why were most of them voting with the Government?

Shameful. Their days are numbered.

 

[jpinx]

15 minutes ago, evadgib said:

HMGs White paper:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-united-kingdoms-exit-from-and-new-partnership-with-the-european-union-white-paper 

Great - now maybe everyone will actually read it before posting drivel......

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Even the MP's in Westminster will have this sorted before the bickering in here stops.... 

If we all live that long!

[7by7]

59 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Oh, it was a lot more than a maybe. From the pro-remain Grauniad:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/14/osborne-predicts-30bn-hole-in-public-finance-if-uk-votes-to-leave-eu

 Whether one calls it a warning, a promise, a threat or a lie; you've just come up with one example; against the many lies told by the Brexit camp.

[Aforek]

The best news for Europe     go, Britain, go  , the sooner the better ; why it did'nt start last year ? because Britain is affraid of his Brexit

[elliss]

       What ever  Brexit  deal, is  eventually negotiated , after many years , will then be presented

   to  our duly elected   members at  Westminster,  for their  approval ,  ( yawn ]

    After the brexit deal has been  rejected numerous times , after so many amendments.

  The  electorate  will be  called  upon , for  a new   brexit vote / general election, this time get it right.

.No confidence in May , ex stay campaigner . beyound belief . Cameron to  the  tower , asap.

 

   All  part of the long term plan  . Democracy is  a  myth ,    Time will tell ..

[melvinmelvin]

 

A remark was made higher up in the thread that Trump's doings makes UK appear as a more stable and trustworthy partner.  I think that is a fairly valid point and might be a wee asset for UK in the upcoming talks.

 

The delay in starting the departure from EU I think is wise, takes time to consider and stake out possible courses through a not so easy and complicated terrain. It also would take time for the UK to find the right people to spearhead the different areas of negotiations.

 

The UK PM has now demonstrated TWICE very clearly that she has a less than good grip on what goes and what does not go within the UK legal system, (ref the need/no need for an approved bill in order to invoke the article 50). For me that is a warning signal. There is a very very large portfolio of legal issues to be sorted out as part of the Brexit, not having a good grasp of what legally goes in the UK is not an asset for the leader of the talks.

 

As time has passed I think maybe a so called hard Brexit might not be so bad after all, it would be quicker and clearer.  Why do I think that? I don't really see that UK has much to offer the EU as far as trade is concerned. A fair proportion of today's trade between UK and EU would continue I think, Brexit or no Brexit. Otherwise - significant proportions of voters and consumers in UK and EU would be fairly pissed off.  By and large I consider that the EU has the upper hand in almost all trade related issues, I might be wrong of course.

 

 

 

 

[emilymat]

2 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

I thought Labour were supposed to be the opposition.

Why were most of them voting with the Government?

Shameful. Their days are numbered.

 

With 50 years membership (until 2016) behind me, I have to agree. I voted remain, as did the majority in my constituency. My MP, a Brexiteer, voted with the government. I have to accept he is not elected as a 'delegate'. However, I hope he listened to Ken Clarke's excellent contribution about the ultimate role of an MP. The reality is they all have their eyes on the next general election, but my MP will have to watch it.

 

Anyway, my big gripe about the hypocrisy of MP's is the absence of Diane Abbott at the debate and vote - although she was speaking at another meeting earlier she was 'allegedly' too ill to attend.  I clearly have to be careful how I frame this,  but the reality might well be that she wished to retain her shadow cabinet post and profile, but as a passionate 'remainer' she would have been unlikely to have supported the government - or should I say our unelected PM. Who  would do such a thing?. Have your cake and eat it.

 

I will await with interest some indication of what struck her down so suddenly, simply because I have listened to her ad infinitum on radio 4, explaining to unexplainable Labour position.

 

I'm make no apologies. I'm with the Lib/Dems on this. A final referendum on the outcome. The Brexiteers should have no concerns about this whatsoever, such is the confidence being expressed.

[pegman]

How many high wage bankers move to Frankfurt by the time this is done? How many direct and indirect jobs leave the City?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/feb/02/european-bankers-uk-city-brexit-talks

 

 

short the £ while you still can.

[Jip99]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The most famous one is telling us that leaving the EU would save the UK taxpayer the £350 million a week we contribute to the EU, when the truth is the UK's contribution is much less than that.

 

The EU planned to make the UK charge VAT on food, children's clothing etc..

 

That leaving would dramatically reduce all immigration, rather than the truth that it might reduce immigration from other EEA states but probably wont if we want to remain in the single market.

 

Reinforcing the ignorance displayed by Thai 3; i.e. that we are controlled and our laws made by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

See the Long list of leave lies and Brexit lies for many more examples.

 

Your turn for some examples; and I don't mean some of the gloomy economic forecasts. They were forecasts, not definite statements like the Brexit examples above and Brexit campaigners gave us their rosy ones as well. Only time will tell how accurate any of them, from both sides, were.

 

Grouse has quoted more than enough in post #20.

 

I would add that ignorance falls on both sides if you claim that we are not controlled by EU laws:-

 

"a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments". ......a quote from the European Parliament.

 

A few more frivolous impositions:-

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/586742/European-Union-barmy-decisions-rules-regulations-Britain-EU

 

 

 

[Grouse]

Delighted to report that Her Majesty's Government agrees with me; Parliament always was and is sovereign. "Take back control"? Nonsense fodder for the gullible masses ?

 

Now that we we know this to be the case, maybe the hard Brexiteers might review their list of reasons for leaving? Is it just wealthier people than you "with their snouts in the trough"? None of those in the Con Party ?

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-white-paper-uk-parliament-remian-sovereign-eu-membership-referendum-campaign-brussels-article-a7559556.html?amp

[Jip99]

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 A warning it may have to happen rather than a promise it will definitely happen, from both him and Darling, his Labour predecessor.

 

A warning which may still come true if the negotiations don't go well.

 

That's one; any more?

 

 

I also remember the portents of doom regarding the economic sky falling down.

 

They didn't materialise either.

 

The Bank of England has updated its growth forecast for the UK, commenting that the anticipated fall in the economy has not materialized and it has, in fact grown since the Brexit vote. This is also known as an admission that the Bank was wrong ( not for the first time) in predicting doom and gloom for the UK. If only that MINORITY of voters against Brexit would accept the fact, and put their backs into talking the country up instead of spreading the same gloom and doom that the BoE had predicted, we might find that the World will welcome new trade agreements with a successful economic base... and the Exchange Rate might receive a boost too!
 

 

http://www.whatinvestment.co.uk/schroders-investors-expect-economic-slowdown-2553270/

[Jip99]

On the misinformation front...................they didn't warn us about this:-

 

 

Iceberg lettuces and broccoli rationed as vegetable crisis hits supermarkets

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38851097

 

[7by7]

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

23 hours ago, Khun Han said:

(Not sure what happened there ^^^^; it was me, 7by7, who said the following!)

<snip>

Your turn for some examples; and I don't mean some of the gloomy economic forecasts. They were forecasts, not definite statements like the Brexit examples above and Brexit campaigners gave us their rosy ones as well. Only time will tell how accurate any of them, from both sides, were.

Grouse has quoted more than enough in post #20.

Go back and read it again; he's quoting lies by the Brexit campaign!

 

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

I would add that ignorance falls on both sides if you claim that we are not controlled by EU laws:-

 

"a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments". ......a quote from the European Parliament.

I have never claimed that we are not 'controlled' by EU laws, that is that EU laws do not apply in the UK. What is ignorant is the claim that the EU is undemocratic. All EU laws are made and agreed by elected representatives; the heads of state of each member, the council of ministers or the European Parliament.

 

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

A few more frivolous impositions:-

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/586742/European-Union-barmy-decisions-rules-regulations-Britain-EU

More Euro myths from the Express! See here for even more.

 

Unfortunately, people like you and Thai3 believe the myths rather than the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by 7by7

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I also remember the portents of doom regarding the economic sky falling down.

 

They didn't materialise either.

 

The Bank of England has updated its growth forecast for the UK, commenting that the anticipated fall in the economy has not materialized and it has, in fact grown since the Brexit vote. This is also known as an admission that the Bank was wrong ( not for the first time) in predicting doom and gloom for the UK. If only that MINORITY of voters against Brexit would accept the fact, and put their backs into talking the country up instead of spreading the same gloom and doom that the BoE had predicted, we might find that the World will welcome new trade agreements with a successful economic base... and the Exchange Rate might receive a boost too!
 

 

http://www.whatinvestment.co.uk/schroders-investors-expect-economic-slowdown-2553270/

 

Haven't materialised yet!

 

It will take several years for the full economic effects of Brexit to be felt by the UK; and a lot depends on as yet unknown factors such as the final trade agreement reached between the UK and EU.

 

Investors, manufacturers etc. are mainly waiting to see what happens. For example; UK car production drives to 17-year high but investment stalls on ‘uncertainty’

Quote

The UK car industry is in rude health, hitting a 17-year production high in 2016, but concerns over Brexit saw investment fall by a third, industry figures have revealed........

 

......The car industry, which turns over £71bn a year and accounts for 12pc of UK goods exports, is worried that it could be hit with punitive tariffs if a free trade agreement with the EU cannot be struck. The EU buys more than half of all UK cars, and sales to the bloc rose 7.5pc in 2016. Mr Hawes described tariffs as a “red line for the industry” that would put future investment at risk.

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

On the misinformation front...................they didn't warn us about this:-

 

 

Iceberg lettuces and broccoli rationed as vegetable crisis hits supermarkets

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38851097

 

 So who are you blaming for the bad weather; the remain campaign or the EU?

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 So who are you blaming for the bad weather; the remain campaign or the EU?

 

The EU obviously 7x7

 

 

They have a got a lot to answer for.

[Jip99]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Go back and read it again; he's quoting lies by the Brexit campaign!

 

I have never claimed that we are not 'controlled' by EU laws, that is that EU laws do not apply in the UK. What is ignorant is the claim that the EU is undemocratic. All EU laws are made and agreed by elected representatives; the heads of state of each member, the council of ministers or the European Parliament.

 

More Euro myths from the Express! See here for even more.

 

Unfortunately, people like you and Thai3 believe the myths rather than the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Liar, liar, your bums on Fire!

 

 

The remoaners monotone retort to any comment they don't like. This time it is the Daily Express who are accused of being habitual liars.

[melvinmelvin]

28 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

I have never claimed that we are not 'controlled' by EU laws, that is that EU laws do not apply in the UK. What is ignorant is the claim that the EU is undemocratic. All EU laws are made and agreed by elected representatives; the heads of state of each member, the council of ministers or the European Parliament.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

what you say above is not correct,

you should read up on how directives can be passed in EU

 

 

however,

what is always worth keeping in mind by those in the UK that complain about lack of sovereignty;

everything in the EEC/EU that reduces UK sovereignty has been agreed to by the UK

 

[Grouse]

Please sir, how would the UK economy be doing if we HADN'T voted to leave? Sorry sir....

[Laughing Gravy]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Please sir, how would the UK economy be doing if we HADN'T voted to leave? Sorry sir....

Why don't you go and ask Sir. Sir Carney he expects everyone to believe him, after supporting the remain campaign and his 'doomsday prediction' after the referendum vote. He has already admitted he made errors twice. He has lied and now wants everyone to trust him So are you saying you believe this person.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Why don't you go and ask Sir. Sir Carney he expects everyone to believe him, after supporting the remain campaign and his 'doomsday prediction' after the referendum vote. He has already admitted he made errors twice. He has lied and now wants everyone to trust him So are you saying you believe this person.

I'm asking for your opinion. No, really. How do you think the economy would be doing?

[7by7]

54 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Liar, liar, your bums on Fire!

 

 

The remoaners monotone retort to any comment they don't like. This time it is the Daily Express who are accused of being habitual liars.

The myths propagated by the Express and other media have been proven to be just that: myths.

 

That you and many like you are gullible enough to swallow the myths, or too lazy to check the facts, is, unfortunately, not just your problem; it is a problem for the whole UK because it is one of the factors which led to the result last June.